Author Topic: WATCH: Guilty Until Proven Innocent? OAN Investigates the Case Against Roy Moore  (Read 4473 times)

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Offline roamer_1

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« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 06:40:57 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Good video and reporting.  Thanks for posting.

Offline roamer_1

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Good video and reporting.  Thanks for posting.

You're welcome @Right_in_Virginia :)
I thought it pretty balanced - I am finding myself relying upon OANN more and more... If local cable had it here, I might even sign back up :O

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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You're welcome @Right_in_Virginia :)
I thought it pretty balanced - I am finding myself relying upon OANN more and more... If local cable had it here, I might even sign back up :O

I feel the same way about OANN ... they're pretty straight forward and fair.  My local cable doesn't carry them ... and that is no surprise.   ^-^

@roamer_1

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I feel the same way about OANN ... they're pretty straight forward and fair.  My local cable doesn't carry them ... and that is no surprise.   ^-^

@roamer_1

I had it on my Fire Stick, but when they went to subscriber only, they took it off, and won't put it back even if I pay.
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Offline roamer_1

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I had it on my Fire Stick, but when they went to subscriber only, they took it off, and won't put it back even if I pay.

I am investigating ROKU for that expressed reason. It is a subscription of a few dollars to access OANN, but I am willing to pay those few dollars. though I would really rather that they (OANN) offer direct streaming, and save me the hardware cost.

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Seriously...?

If this is OAN, which I've never watched, they make Breitbart look like Pulitzer material...and unbiased in comparison.

No paperwork to back up the accusations---old news. 

"We were immediately asked to leave"----it's a conspiracy!

Not sure where the information is coming from---the original Post article documented that quite nicely.

"No one was working at the mall long enough to personally know what happened"---then why go there?  Clearly so this network or whatever it is could throw a few things like "spurious charges" around and make people who haven't been paying attention think they uncovered something they didn't

"No witnesses to back up 'spurious' accusations"---there are plenty and they've gone on record.

"Questions about the timing"---that's been explained.

"Why didn't it come up when he was running for Chief Justice"---because the spotlight gets hotter and brighter when you run for national office.  The Strange campaign said they heard about Moore from different sources and were investigating, but couldn't get it done in time.

Some guy went to high school with him.  Okay, and..?

Some people feel he's being treated unfairly...great reporting there.  He must be innocent.

I stopped watching when that piece of garbage pastor smeared Corfman, implying that her problems make her a liar, when drug abuse is often a result of sexual abuse.








Offline INVAR

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Seriously...?

If this is OAN, which I've never watched, they make Breitbart look like Pulitzer material...and unbiased in comparison.

No paperwork to back up the accusations---old news. 

"We were immediately asked to leave"----it's a conspiracy!

Not sure where the information is coming from---the original Post article documented that quite nicely.

"No one was working at the mall long enough to personally know what happened"---then why go there?  Clearly so this network or whatever it is could throw a few things like "spurious charges" around and make people who haven't been paying attention think they uncovered something they didn't

"No witnesses to back up 'spurious' accusations"---there are plenty and they've gone on record.

"Questions about the timing"---that's been explained.

"Why didn't it come up when he was running for Chief Justice"---because the spotlight gets hotter and brighter when you run for national office.  The Strange campaign said they heard about Moore from different sources and were investigating, but couldn't get it done in time.

Some guy went to high school with him.  Okay, and..?

Some people feel he's being treated unfairly...great reporting there.  He must be innocent.

I stopped watching when that piece of garbage pastor smeared Corfman, implying that her problems make her a liar, when drug abuse is often a result of sexual abuse.

So you are firmly in the camp of accusations and allegations without proof are enough to convict and scarlet letter anyone at any time, simply based on the seriousness of the charges.


Gotcha.


What a country you will get to enjoy living in as this becomes the status quo for EVERYONE.


Enjoy.


Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

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So you are firmly in the camp of accusations and allegations without proof are enough to convict and scarlet letter anyone at any time, simply based on the seriousness of the charges.


Gotcha.


What a country you will get to enjoy living in as this becomes the status quo for EVERYONE.


Enjoy.

@INVAR

So you aren't going to respond to the specific points in my posts, then?

Offline INVAR

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@INVAR

So you aren't going to respond to the specific points in my posts, then?

That has been done on myriad threads already, and I have read how you responded to every point and counterpoint.

So it's a waste of time.

I'm just noting the fact that you are in the camp of guilty until proven innocent whenever there is an allegation, and that the person accused should wear the stain of the allegation and be eschewed and condemned by society because the seriousness of the charge is all that matters.

Precedents today are set in cement as having the force of law.

Enjoy the consequences.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Free Vulcan

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Seriously...?

If this is OAN, which I've never watched, they make Breitbart look like Pulitzer material...and unbiased in comparison.

No paperwork to back up the accusations---old news. 

"We were immediately asked to leave"----it's a conspiracy!

Not sure where the information is coming from---the original Post article documented that quite nicely.

"No one was working at the mall long enough to personally know what happened"---then why go there?  Clearly so this network or whatever it is could throw a few things like "spurious charges" around and make people who haven't been paying attention think they uncovered something they didn't

"No witnesses to back up 'spurious' accusations"---there are plenty and they've gone on record.

"Questions about the timing"---that's been explained.

"Why didn't it come up when he was running for Chief Justice"---because the spotlight gets hotter and brighter when you run for national office.  The Strange campaign said they heard about Moore from different sources and were investigating, but couldn't get it done in time.

Some guy went to high school with him.  Okay, and..?

Some people feel he's being treated unfairly...great reporting there.  He must be innocent.

I stopped watching when that piece of garbage pastor smeared Corfman, implying that her problems make her a liar, when drug abuse is often a result of sexual abuse.

I and others have laid it out several times, and you refuse to believe anyone who doesn't fit your narrative while accepting any accuser at their word, despite the discrepancies in their story, even if proved by court documents, such as with the very Leigh Corfman you reference.

You are simply going to believe what you want to believe. Which is your constitutional right, but it makes your intelectually dishonest and your arguments without weight.
The Republic is lost.

Offline roamer_1

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Seriously...?

If this is OAN, which I've never watched, they make Breitbart look like Pulitzer material...and unbiased in comparison.

No paperwork to back up the accusations---old news. 

"We were immediately asked to leave"----it's a conspiracy!

Not sure where the information is coming from---the original Post article documented that quite nicely.

"No one was working at the mall long enough to personally know what happened"---then why go there?  Clearly so this network or whatever it is could throw a few things like "spurious charges" around and make people who haven't been paying attention think they uncovered something they didn't

"No witnesses to back up 'spurious' accusations"---there are plenty and they've gone on record.

"Questions about the timing"---that's been explained.

"Why didn't it come up when he was running for Chief Justice"---because the spotlight gets hotter and brighter when you run for national office.  The Strange campaign said they heard about Moore from different sources and were investigating, but couldn't get it done in time.

Some guy went to high school with him.  Okay, and..?

Some people feel he's being treated unfairly...great reporting there.  He must be innocent.

I stopped watching when that piece of garbage pastor smeared Corfman, implying that her problems make her a liar, when drug abuse is often a result of sexual abuse.

I think it is quite right. There is no record, the lion's share of supporting allegations have been altogether too clear in their recollections, without a hint, even a *hint* in the record to back any of it up.

Many of the supporting allegations come from folks with an axe to grind.


The management specifically states he was not banned from the mall
The mall cop specifically states he was not banned from the mall.
The one cop supporting the rumor is a left-wing moonbat and not credible, especially because the cops DO keep records..
.
*ALL* of the direct allegations have been summarily addressed, with literally *ALL* of the supporting evidence proven to be again, politically driven, or outright false.


Corfman didn't have a private phone. Corfman's supposed meeting place for pickup is not credible. Corfman has made similar accusations against several preachers. Corfman was already a 'problem child' at the time of the custody change (her problems blamed upon Moore) Corfman's entire timeline hinges on leaving a mere 12 days after the custody hearing - Twelve days for three meetings before she was shipped off to her father - A timing problem not told in her initial story.

As for Beverly Young Nelson - Her entire story is called into question by former employees of Olde Hickory House, to the point that no one can remember her even working there. And those coming forward (including a cop who would know the ADA Moore in real time, cannot remember Moore ever frequenting the joint.

As for the ass-grab chick, it is entirely unbelievable that she would say *nothing* to her own mother after exiting the building. Total bullcrap.

There is *NOTHING*

You're down to 'where there's smoke, there's fire... which is not true if there's a smoke machine, which is most definitely true 4 weeks from an election *just* after his name can't be taken from the ballot.
I cry bullshit.

In ALL of it, NO ONE got laid. Not one. That is entirely incredible. Not a single person coming forward admitting an actual sexual relationship with Moore - *not one*. Where are the gals whose maidenhood was actually sullied? Where are the party girls with loose morals that probably laid everyone (else) in town?

Not a single thing. Unbelievable.

Silver Pines

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@roamer_1

Quote
I think it is quite right. There is no record, the lion's share of supporting allegations have been altogether too clear in their recollections, without a hint, even a *hint* in the record to back any of it up.

Yep, this is the grandest of grand conspiracies.

Quote
Many of the supporting allegations come from folks with an axe to grind.

Like the accuser who's a Republican and a Trump supporter?

Quote
The management specifically states he was not banned from the mall
The mall cop specifically states he was not banned from the mall.
The one cop supporting the rumor is a left-wing moonbat and not credible, especially because the cops DO keep records..

The mall manager who was not there at the time did not say so specifically.  He said "to the best of his knowledge", and if you're going to disqualify the cop supporting the rumor because she's anti-Moore, you need to do the same with the mall guy, who supports Moore.
Don't know what mall cop you're talking about, but mall employees state specifically that he was banned, and one of them sourced a cop by name.
.
Quote
*ALL* of the direct allegations have been summarily addressed, with literally *ALL* of the supporting evidence proven to be again, politically driven, or outright false.


Simply not true, sorry.


Quote
Corfman didn't have a private phone. Corfman's supposed meeting place for pickup is not credible. Corfman has made similar accusations against several preachers. Corfman was already a 'problem child' at the time of the custody change (her problems blamed upon Moore) Corfman's entire timeline hinges on leaving a mere 12 days after the custody hearing - Twelve days for three meetings before she was shipped off to her father - A timing problem not told in her initial story.

The phone thing was a dumb attempt to discredit Corfman and was cleared up by her mother.  Other accusations?  Nope.  A "problem child" can't be abused?  Shame on you.


Quote
As for Beverly Young Nelson - Her entire story is called into question by former employees of Olde Hickory House, to the point that no one can remember her even working there. And those coming forward (including a cop who would know the ADA Moore in real time, cannot remember Moore ever frequenting the joint.

This is stuff that can only be be found at Breitbart and fake news/conspiracy sites and will never go any further. It's crackpot material.

Quote
As for the ass-grab chick, it is entirely unbelievable that she would say *nothing* to her own mother after exiting the building. Total bullcrap.

There is *NOTHING*

You want there to be nothing, but saying something often enough doesn't affect reality.  You say the same about Moore's financial dealings with his nonprofit.  I don't know when it became conservative to pretend facts don't exist.

This creep in a little boy's cowboy suit isn't worth the dogged defense.

Quote
You're down to 'where there's smoke, there's fire... which is not true if there's a smoke machine, which is most definitely true 4 weeks from an election *just* after his name can't be taken from the ballot.
I cry bullshit.

I know you do, even though the facts of the timing have been explained repeatedly. 

Quote
In ALL of it, NO ONE got laid. Not one. That is entirely incredible. Not a single person coming forward admitting an actual sexual relationship with Moore - *not one*. Where are the gals whose maidenhood was actually sullied? Where are the party girls with loose morals that probably laid everyone (else) in town?
Not a single thing. Unbelievable.

You might ask yourself why this large circle of people would go to so much trouble to construct this huge conspiracy and not one of them claim rape.  I brought that up days ago, in fact.  Wouldn't you think at least one of them would go all the way, so to speak, and do so? 


Silver Pines

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@INVAR
Quote
That has been done on myriad threads already, and I have read how you responded to every point and counterpoint.

So it's a waste of time.

You got that right.

Quote
I'm just noting the fact that you are in the camp of guilty until proven innocent whenever there is an allegation, and that the person accused should wear the stain of the allegation and be eschewed and condemned by society because the seriousness of the charge is all that matters.

Precedents today are set in cement as having the force of law.

Enjoy the consequences.


@INVAR

If you've been reading my posts, you know I've said repeatedly that I held back judgment on Moore when the womens' claims came out, and that I formed my opinion after the corroborations of various people who knew and worked with Moore.  I guess you just happened to miss those, because you have to have something to throw when the facts aren't on your side.




Offline jpsb

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Quote from: roamer_1 on November 26, 2017, 08:04:19 pm
You're welcome @Right_in_Virginia :)
I thought it pretty balanced - I am finding myself relying upon OANN more and more... If local cable had it here, I might even sign back up :O

@roamer_1
@Right_in_Virginia

Have you seen this?

https://www.facebook.com/reg.kelly.98/videos/233074260560142/?fref=mentions

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Quote from: jpsb on November 26, 2017, 10:37:43 pm
@roamer_1
@Right_in_Virginia

Have you seen this?

https://www.facebook.com/reg.kelly.98/videos/233074260560142/?fref=mentions


Is this the same one with the nutcase shaking the rock, calling on Cruz and Lee to resign, and yelling about queer sodomite idiots? 

Also the one who said he doesn't know anything about Moore and then proceeds to recite his so-called Godly history, lol?

@jpsb, trust me...this guy does not help you.

Offline jpsb

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I feel the same way about OANN ... they're pretty straight forward and fair.  My local cable doesn't carry them ... and that is no surprise.   ^-^

@roamer_1

If you have a smart TV you can get OANN I think it's $5 a month.

Offline jpsb

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Is this the same one with the nutcase shaking the rock, calling on Cruz and Lee to resign, and yelling about queer sodomite idiots? 

Also the one who said he doesn't know anything about Moore and then proceeds to recite his so-called Godly history, lol?

@jpsb, trust me...this guy does not help you.

Maybe not but it is one hell of a good video to watch. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Especially
the part about Cruz. I think I'm going to go watch it again.  :cool:

Silver Pines

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Maybe not but it is one hell of a good video to watch. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Especially
the part about Cruz. I think I'm going to go watch it again.  :cool:

@jpsb

Well, I know that TOS was dancing up and down like a bunch of seals over it, so...

Btw, credit to you for this:


Offline jpsb

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@jpsb

Well, I know that TOS was dancing up and down like a bunch of seals over it, so...

Btw, credit to you for this:



Lets show what I was agreeing with. The poster was defending Uma Thurman one of my
favorites.

It is mean and churlish to sneer at women (Uma) for not saying something at the time. It would have been like a slave complaining about low pay before 1861—"what are those confounded darkies talking about?" The time wasn't right; punishments and banishments and harsh persecutions by attorneys were what would have happened. There was no Twitter when she was in Kill Bill; no social media, no place to take those complaints and have them receive support or even be taken seriously. Would you like it if you spent years preparing for a career and had it all taken away from you because you didn't want your boss to insert his penis into one or more of your orifices?

Harvey admitted guilt and checked into a clinent to get help. Moore maintains his innocence.
See the difference? But I don't blame a woman for keeping silent rather than accuse a powerful
man that could ruin her life. I just do not believe the Moore accusers.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 11:17:24 pm by jpsb »

Offline roamer_1

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Yep, this is the grandest of grand conspiracies.

@CatherineofAragon
Yes, in fact, it does point to conspiracy. One of the most common things a liar does in over-recollection - Filling in with incremental detail in order to reinforce the idea of irrefutable recollection. That these folks have incremental detail about incidences thirty years past is precisely what makes it unbelievable. Ass-grab chick remembers she was wearing her black and white dress at an incidental meeting? COME ON!

The whole narrative, to include the ordered responses specific to refuting statements made by Moore - the whole thing is scripted, and at the very least, the players have been coached. NOBODY remembers a regular day at the mall thirty years ago.

Quote
Like the accuser who's a Republican and a Trump supporter?

So what?

Quote
The mall manager who was not there at the time did not say so specifically.  He said "to the best of his knowledge",

Alright. We have been over this - If he was banned he would be on a banned list that that manager would have in his possession. And it is very likely that, as the next manager in line after the one who supposedly banned him, He would likely be the one Moore would be asking to let him back in. I'd say a DA coming hat-in-hand would be memorable.

Quote
and if you're going to disqualify the cop supporting the rumor because she's anti-Moore, you need to do the same with the mall guy, who supports Moore.

Leaving a null in Moore's favor. Rinse repeat.

Quote
Don't know what mall cop you're talking about, but mall employees state specifically that he was banned, and one of them sourced a cop by name.
.

Yes, DJ something is the cop in question, and he has adamantly declared it did not happen.

Quote
A "problem child" can't be abused?  Shame on you.

Corfman specifically claimed her 'problem child' thing was Moore's fault. It was not. She was a problem before that, on the record...

Quote
This is stuff that can only be be found at Breitbart and fake news/conspiracy sites and will never go any further. It's crackpot material.

I am no fan of Breitbart, but standing on WAPO, who has been caught more than can be counted in their partisanship (and AL.com too) is patently absurd.

Quote
You want there to be nothing,

No, there IS nothing. Nothing but gossip and tongue waggin.


Quote
You say the same about Moore's financial dealings with his nonprofit. 

More's financial dealings are being spun the other way around - He gave the nonprofit a break, deducting his take from his speaking fees and income from the Jeremiah Project FROM what the non-profit owed him annually. Thus, not only was he not lying (his income from the nonprofit was not regular, relying on his speaking fees and only making up the difference), he was doing the right thing. He didn't have to give them (in the way of deduction) the income off of the Jeremiah Project at all.

Quote
I don't know when it became conservative to pretend facts don't exist.

As soon as there is one, let me know.

Quote
I know you do, even though the facts of the timing have been explained repeatedly. 


And wholly insufficiently.

Quote
You might ask yourself why this large circle of people would go to so much trouble to construct this huge conspiracy and not one of them claim rape.  I brought that up days ago, in fact.  Wouldn't you think at least one of them would go all the way, so to speak, and do so?

No, because if he were accused of rape (especially of underage), charges would be expected to be filed. This is nicely kept in public opinion with a 'Have you quit beating your wife' question, which cannot be proved, nor disproved, and in all likelihood, has no consequence, as the slander is nearly impossible to prove.

Yet it remains that there is not even one sexual relationship - not a single one - which is quite outside of the sexual pervert meme.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 11:57:16 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline EdJames

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Thank you for posting this great video.  I often enjoy OANN reporting, and this was no exception!

Offline INVAR

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If you've been reading my posts, you know I've said repeatedly that I held back judgment on Moore when the womens' claims came out, and that I formed my opinion after the corroborations of various people who knew and worked with Moore. 

I found it interesting in those threads where you stated you were holding back judgment, that in the very next sentence your words essentially condemned the guy guilty based on the allegations, so I never regarded your position as genuine.


I guess you just happened to miss those, because you have to have something to throw when the facts aren't on your side.

There have been no facts provided by the accusers whatsoever outside of bullshit accusations, a bogus yearbook they will not release for independent verification after noted problems with the signature, location and date along with suppositions based on hearsay for political assassination.

We'll just chalk it up to 'my accepted facts are not acceptable as facts to you' and vice-versa.  This is where we are now in America today.

I'm simply telling you that if the Oligarchy pulls this off wth Moore - the precedent that allegations alone can convict for political purposes, we the people will officially have no voice in selecting our rulers as this tactic will become the way rulers invalidate the candidates of the people to put their own into power.

Enjoy the consequences.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline roamer_1

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Thank you for posting this great video.  I often enjoy OANN reporting, and this was no exception!

Thank you for your kind reply, @EdJames
 :beer:

I like em too... It's nice to get a Midwestern point of view, free of both left coasts. If only they could find commentators that retain a drawl, I'd feel more at home  :cool:
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 12:57:28 am by roamer_1 »

Offline Frank Cannon

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There is another vid up on the subject if you let the first play through....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ