Senate Democrats set conditions for tax reform

[Bigun]

Euro-style VATs are an amazingly efficient means of generating lots of revenue for government programs.  They're also regressive as hell.  No thanks.

And exactly ZERO people on this thread are endorsing European style VATS! In fact, I'm doing all I can to get rid of the one we already have!  They call it the corporate income tax but it is never-the-less a functional VAT!

[Mom MD]

Euro-style VATs are an amazingly efficient means of generating lots of revenue for government programs.  They're also regressive as hell.  No thanks.

It is not regressive when everyone pays the same rate.  Is the progressive taxes that are immoral and unfair.  A true regressive tax would mean those with less income pay a higher rate than those with more income.  I have not seen that proposed anywhere

That is how some conservatives lose arguments.  They allow socialists and liberals like our friend here to define the terms.  Once the terms are defined the way the liberals want all other points of view are losing propositions.  That is how budget increases become budget "cuts" and how flat rates become "regressive" 

[txradioguy]

It is not regressive when everyone pays the same rate.  Is the progressive taxes that are immoral and unfair.  A true regressive tax would mean those with less income pay a higher rate than those with more income.  I have not seen that proposed anywhere

That is how some conservatives lose arguments.  They allow socialists and liberals like our friend here to define the terms.  Once the terms are defined the way the liberals want all other points of view are losing propositions.  That is how budget increases become budget "cuts" and how flat rates become "regressive"

 

[Bigun]

It is not regressive when everyone pays the same rate.  Is the progressive taxes that are immoral and unfair.  A true regressive tax would mean those with less income pay a higher rate than those with more income.  I have not seen that proposed anywhere

That is how some conservatives lose arguments.  They allow socialists and liberals like our friend here to define the terms.  Once the terms are defined the way the liberals want all other points of view are losing propositions.  That is how budget increases become budget "cuts" and how flat rates become "regressive"

BINGO!!!

[Jazzhead]

It is not regressive when everyone pays the same rate.  Is the progressive taxes that are immoral and unfair.  A true regressive tax would mean those with less income pay a higher rate than those with more income.  I have not seen that proposed anywhere

I never said a flat income tax was regressive.   I was speaking of the "Fair Tax" (essentially a national sales tax) and VATs.   Those are regressive taxes under the definition you proposed -  a poor person will pay a higher percentage of her income in taxes than a rich person. 

[Bigun]

I never said a flat income tax was regressive.   I was speaking of the "Fair Tax" (essentially a national sales tax) and VATs.   Those are regressive taxes under the definition you proposed -  a poor person will pay a higher percentage of her income in taxes than a rich person.

And YOU are STILL FOS!!! 

The Fairtax is the ONLY thing out there that completely untaxes the poor!  You want talk about regressive? Try the Social security and Medicare payroll taxes on for size! They that the very first dollar and every dollar earned afterwards!

[Jazzhead]

And YOU are STILL FOS!!! 

The Fairtax is the ONLY thing out there that completely untaxes the poor!  You want talk about regressive? Try the Social security and Medicare payroll taxes on for size! They that the very first dollar and every dollar earned afterwards!

I thought you had me on ignore, Bigun.   It's the Fair Tax that's full of sheit.   

[Bigun]

I thought you had me on ignore, Bigun.  .

I do! But that doesn't mean I'm going to let you slander the truth on this issue!

[Mom MD]

I thought you had me on ignore, Bigun.   It's the Fair Tax that's full of sheit.

The fair tax is the only completely voluntary tax.  Buy used goods rather than new and you pay no tax at all.  After the basic exemptions for food and necessities no one needs to pay any tax at all.  Saving is not punished and tax is voluntary by buying new items....

[HonestJohn]

When the majority party can't get its motherflippin' act together.

This.

And when the majority party only talks amongst itself when crafting legislation.  Which leads to a bill that only the majority of Republicans support (note: Only a majority, not all).

For when only the majority of Republicans in Congress support a piece of legislation, that's already the minority of the total.

---

They have to pick up enough extra votes to get the majority, not in their party, but in the Senate in total.  That requires negotiation with the most moderate of Democrats to peel enough votes away.

[Bigun]

The fair tax is the only completely voluntary tax.  Buy used goods rather than new and you pay no tax at all.  After the basic exemptions for food and necessities no one needs to pay any tax at all.  Saving is not punished and tax is voluntary by buying new items....

And a ton of other pro FREEDOM features as well!   

What do you think would happen if an entrepreneur could start or expand a business in the US without ever having to consider a single tax implication?

[Bigun]

This.

And when the majority party only talks amongst itself when crafting legislation.  Which leads to a bill that only the majority of Republicans support (note: Only a majority, not all).

For when only the majority of Republicans in Congress support a piece of legislation, that's already the minority of the total.---

They have to pick up enough extra votes to get the majority, not in their party, but in the Senate in total.  That requires negotiation with the most moderate of Democrats to peel enough votes away.

If you want to fix that you need to blow up the DEMOCRAT party because THEY are the ones who will brook no dissention in their ranks! In that party you do as you're told or else!

[HonestJohn]

If you want to fix that you need to blow up the DEMOCRAT party because THEY are the ones who will brook no dissention in their ranks! In that party you do as you're told or else!

Kill them all, right?

[RetBobbyMI]

So who put the Dems in charge. Oh wait, Mitch McTurtle is on their side too.

[Jazzhead]

So who put the Dems in charge. Oh wait, Mitch McTurtle is on their side too.

That's an ignorant comment.   If the GOP can't or won't work with the Dems, than near-unanimity is required (and that's only if the law is one of the few that isn't exempt from the filibuster rule).

The problem is the Senate's rules, which are designed to force bipartisanship and curb the power of the majority.   If bipartisanship isn't desired, then nothing gets done.     

[txradioguy]

That's an ignorant comment.   If the GOP can't or won't work with the Dems, than near-unanimity is required (and that's only if the law is one of the few that isn't exempt from the filibuster rule).

The problem is the Senate's rules, which are designed to force bipartisanship and curb the power of the majority.   If bipartisanship isn't desired, then nothing gets done.   

Mitch McConnell has done more to work with the Democrats and make sure that the bulk of Obama's agenda got passed.

He's had no such motivation to work that hard for his own party.

He had no problem going to the WH when Congress was in recess to make back door deals with Obama.

Then he thought nothing of stabbing Republicans in the back and using parliamentary procedures to block Conservative amendments to bills when he wasn't lying to their faces.

The only one that seems to be making ignorant and / or ill informed statements about McConnell is you.

[RoosGirl]

Maybe ol' Mitch had a few emails that the Awans' held for safe keeping.

[Jazzhead]

He's had no such motivation to work that hard for his own party.

Oh malarkey.  He worked damn hard to keep the GOP coalition together to vote to confirm Gorsuch.   He just couldn't manage to do it with healthcare reform.  Three stinkin' defections - means defeat.   

You think its easy delivering a near-unanimous GOP caucus? 

It may not be ignorance to live in a fantasy world,  but it IS a choice.   

[Mom MD]

The democrats do it all the time.  They even get the democrats who identify as republicans to toe the line and vote with them

[txradioguy]

Oh malarkey.  He worked damn hard to keep the GOP coalition together to vote to confirm Gorsuch.   He just couldn't manage to do it with healthcare reform.  Three stinkin' defections - means defeat.   

You think its easy delivering a near-unanimous GOP caucus? 

It may not be ignorance to live in a fantasy world,  but it IS a choice.   

McConnell kept Republicans elected by promising to do one single solitary thing that he has now broken his promise to do.

Through threats to potential primary candidates and intimidation to potential consultants and ad agencies to withold future business...McConnell made sure that only RINO's like himself who would vote the way he told them to got elected. Which ensured what people wanted wouldn't get done and the Obama agenda would get passed.

Your lack of actual knowledge of what has been done to us in DC by Republicans is stunning. 

[RetBobbyMI]

That's an ignorant comment.   If the GOP can't or won't work with the Dems, than near-unanimity is required (and that's only if the law is one of the few that isn't exempt from the filibuster rule).

The problem is the Senate's rules, which are designed to force bipartisanship and curb the power of the majority.   If bipartisanship isn't desired, then nothing gets done.   

Speaking of ignorant comments, the Senate rules are adopted by majority rule. McTurtle could have changed any rule by just his own party...if he really wanted too. But as I said, he really wants to work as Harry Wirdo's replacement than do what republicans should be doing.

[Jazzhead]

Speaking of ignorant comments, the Senate rules are adopted by majority rule. McTurtle could have changed any rule by just his own party...if he really wanted too. But as I said, he really wants to work as Harry Wirdo's replacement than do what republicans should be doing.

Not sure what you're pegging as ignorant, but there is not at the present time a Republican majority for changing the rule.  Try to understand why.  First some background and context:  The filibuster rules as applied to judicial appointments were amended by bipartisan agreement a few years ago for judges short of the SCOTUS,  and McConnell used his majority to get it extended in time to allow Gorsuch to win confirmation.   Don't kid yourself - if you value Gorsuch's being on the Court, then thank Trump for nominating him and McConnell for forcing through the rule change.   It couldn't have been done without the both of them.

The thing about abolishing the filibuster rule generally is that some Republicans just happen to be risk averse;  they know that at some point they will be in the minority again and the filibuster is THE tried and true method for the minority to stymie the majority.   

You want to condemn them for that?    Then consider what happens if the Dems retake the House in 2018.    Don't think that can't happen?   We have a loose cannon in the White House; I say pray to the stars it won't happen.  And if it does,  then Trump gets impeached and it's the filibuster rule in the Senate that keeps him from being convicted and removed from office.   

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

So the people who actually pay the most taxes cannot expect to share in the tax cuts?  Why am I not surprised.  I suppose my taxes will go up.  Just barely crack the top 1% (DH and me together)  We pay 6 figures in federal tax alone and we dont make THAT much.  The AMT and roll off of deductions kill us  Our effective tax rate is around 50% when all is said and done. Basically I work for the government and we live on what my husband makes. I'm so excited to hear we don't deserve a break after working nights, weekends, holidays etc to make money for others....

I seem to remember Ted Kennedy doing an about face on a tax on 'Luxury' items, after he realized it was tossing people out of work in his State.

Sailboats became 'Luxury' toys for 'The Rich' and Teddy's crew was putting them in the out of work locker.

[Bigun]

Kill them all, right?

Damn right!  Politically speaking of course!

[Snarknado]

...First some background and context:  The filibuster rules as applied to judicial appointments were amended by bipartisan agreement a few years ago for judges short of the SCOTUS...

In what way is something that got zero repub votes "bipartisan"?