A Sheriff In Overdose Ravaged Ohio Says His Officers ‘Don’t Do Narcan’

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

dailycaller
Steve Birr
2:47 PM 07/07/2017

[excerpt]

http://dailycaller.com/2017/07/07/a-sheriff-in-overdose-ravaged-ohio-says-his-officers-dont-do-narcan/

An Ohio county sheriff revealed Thursday that his officers do not carry the overdose reversal drug Narcan when responding to opioid overdoses, citing risks to officers.

Butler County Sheriff Richard Jones said that, despite the drug’s effectiveness at reviving unconscious individuals in the middle of an overdose, his officers do not carry it. The unique policy puts his department at odds with other law enforcement outfits throughout the opioid-ravaged state and the country, reports Cincinnati.com.

Jones argues that having a police officer administer Narcan to an addict can risk their safety, saying people revived from overdoses are often violent and prone to lashing out at police.

Corrected Title.  MOD2

[driftdiver]

They are much less violent when dead.

[libertybele]

They are much less violent when dead.

 

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

Most addiction recovery programs are based on the AA 12 Step nonsense.

http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/search/label/12%20Step%20Programs

2nd post:

"AA’s actual success rate somewhere between 5 and 8 percent."

If addicts want to clean up, they'll clean up.

Show me a heroin user, Anywhere in America who hadn't heard about what the stuff was before they started using.

[ConstitutionRose]

One of the hazards of officers using Narcan is that there seems to be no way to prevent the families of the overdosed person from suing the officer(s) involved and the police department.  Police officers should not be asked to act as medical personnel.  Overdose situations are too complex for non-medical personnel.

[Hondo69]

One of the hazards of officers using Narcan is that there seems to be no way to prevent the families of the overdosed person from suing the officer(s) involved and the police department.  Police officers should not be asked to act as medical personnel.  Overdose situations are too complex for non-medical personnel.

I agree - call EMS and let those trained in medical procedures do their job.  Otherwise, get every person in town to sign a waiver.

[Sanguine]

One of the hazards of officers using Narcan is that there seems to be no way to prevent the families of the overdosed person from suing the officer(s) involved and the police department.  Police officers should not be asked to act as medical personnel.  Overdose situations are too complex for non-medical personnel.

Totally agree.

[Suppressed]

Show me a heroin user, Anywhere in America who hadn't heard about what the stuff was before they started using.

Most heroin users are already addicted before they first try heroin.

[Smokin Joe]

Most addiction recovery programs are based on the AA 12 Step nonsense.

http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/search/label/12%20Step%20Programs

2nd post:

"AA’s actual success rate somewhere between 5 and 8 percent."

If addicts want to clean up, they'll clean up.

Show me a heroin user, Anywhere in America who hadn't heard about what the stuff was before they started using.

Considering that at its basic self, AA is a voluntary program, you'd expect the success rate to be higher.

But there's a problem:

Not all people are there of their own volition. (Not all the people in treatment programs are there because they want to quit.) A tremendous number are there because they have been court ordered to attend AA meetings, either as part of their court ordered treatment, or part of their sentence.

Wanting to quit is probably the single most important thing in a successful treatment program, because, ultimately, someone who doesn't want to quit (entirely) will find a way, find an excuse, just this once, to go back to it.
Believe it or not, those court-ordered people often sit around and talk abut how much they miss being out, and their plans to tie one on when they get there, at least according to people I have known who did get in trouble and end up in treatment facilities because the 'evaluation' people found them to be Alcoholics or Addicts.

You'd hear them talking about it down at the bar. Of several dozen people I have known who got DUIs, only two were not judged by the evaluation people to be Alcoholics. They were not all heavy drinkers.

These were people who held down jobs and raised families and generally maintained, but who didn't that time, or were just slightly over the limit, for the most part. Did they drink regularly? Yep. 2-3-4-5 beer a night, after work, after dinner. Did they have a 'problem' with alcohol? In my unprofessional estimation, some did, some didn't. I think the evaluation people were very aggressive in their interpretation of who was an "alcoholic".

I think if you were to take the people who showed up at AA because they actually wanted to quit, the numbers would be considerably higher.

[Smokin Joe]

One of the hazards of officers using Narcan is that there seems to be no way to prevent the families of the overdosed person from suing the officer(s) involved and the police department.  Police officers should not be asked to act as medical personnel.  Overdose situations are too complex for non-medical personnel.

Sure there is. They're called "good samaritan laws". Have the Legislature throw a clause in for officers who administer Narcan, provide a seminar for the officers as a CE module or as part of their academy training.

Why would I say that? Because it does save lives. Because that will be the Road to Damascus moment for some addicts, and they will quit. They'll likely be in the minority, but as one who has a wayward grandson who was saved by a convenience store clerk who administered CPR and an officer with the shot, I'm glad they do. Last I heard the kid is still clean.

Here's the other tactic: Tell everyone (advertise it) that as of mm/dd/2017, our officers will no longer have access to narcan injections. EMS response time may be beyond the time limits for recovery from an overdose.

Leave carrying the injectors up to the individual officers, 

[libertybele]

Sure there is. They're called "good samaritan laws". Have the Legislature throw a clause in for officers who administer Narcan, provide a seminar for the officers as a CE module or as part of their academy training.

Why would I say that? Because it does save lives. Because that will be the Road to Damascus moment for some addicts, and they will quit. They'll likely be in the minority, but as one who has a wayward grandson who was saved by a convenience store clerk who administered CPR and an officer with the shot, I'm glad they do. Last I heard the kid is still clean.

Here's the other tactic: Tell everyone (advertise it) that as of mm/dd/2017, our officers will no longer have access to narcan injections. EMS response time may be beyond the time limits for recovery from an overdose.

Leave carrying the injectors up to the individual officers,

Good for your grandson; I'll be praying for his continued recovery.

[libertybele]

I just ran across this poem, written by an addict and her mother inserted it in her obituary.  So sad.  We have a growing epidemic on our hands.  These 'addicts' are wives, mothers, daughters, sisters, husbands, fathers, sons, brothers -- someone's loved one!

Although Delaney has died, she’s left behind a powerful poem that has struck a chord with many. The poem, which expresses what it’s like to struggle with a heroin addiction, was included by her mother in her obituary (whose online version had crashed from a surge of traffic on Friday) after she found it in her daughter’s journal.


Here is the complete poem as written by Delaney:

    “Funny, I don’t remember no good dope days. I remember walking for miles in a dope fiend haze. I remember sleeping in houses that had no electric. I remember being called a junkie, but I couldn’t accept it. I remember hanging out in abandos that were empty and dark. I remember shooting up in the bathroom and falling out at the park. I remember nodding out in front of my sisters kid. I remember not remembering half of the things that I did. I remember the dope man’s time frame, just ten more minutes. I remember those days being so sick that I just wanted to end it. I remember the birthdays and holiday celebrations. All the things I missed during my incarceration. I remember overdosing on my bedroom floor. I remember my sisters cry and my dad having to break down the door. I remember the look on his face when I opened my eyes, thinking today was the day that his baby had died. I remember blaming myself when my mom decided to leave. I remember the guilt I felt in my chest making it hard to breathe. I remember caring so much but not knowing how to show it. and I know to this day that she probably don’t even know it. I remember feeling like I lost all hope. I remember giving up my body for the next bag of dope. I remember only causing pain, destruction and harm. I remember the track marks the needles left on my arm. I remember watching the slow break up of my home. I remember thinking my family would be better off if I just left them alone. I remember looking in the mirror at my sickly completion. I remember not recognizing myself in my own Damn reflection. I remember constantly obsessing over my next score but what I remember most is getting down on my knees and asking God to save me cuz I don’t want to do this no more !!! “

https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/mom-shares-late-daughters-poem-heroin-addiction-210729832.html

[Smokin Joe]

Good for your grandson; I'll be praying for his continued recovery.

Thanks, we are praying for him, too.

I think that one scared him. He was riding with a couple of girls who took his money and drugs, rolled him out of the pickup and left. Thankfully the clerk in the convenience store locked his till, came out, called 911 and administered CPR. The responding police officer (first on scene) had narcan with him and administered the shot that saved his life.

[corbe]

   So deeply profound @libertybele
   Thanks for sharing.

[jmyrlefuller]

Most addiction recovery programs are based on the AA 12 Step nonsense.

http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/search/label/12%20Step%20Programs

2nd post:

"AA’s actual success rate somewhere between 5 and 8 percent."

If addicts want to clean up, they'll clean up.

Show me a heroin user, Anywhere in America who hadn't heard about what the stuff was before they started using.

For comparison:

The typical success rate for all attempts at quitting smoking, at least about 10 years ago, was around 10%. For men, it's slightly higher than for women.

Gay conversion therapy, which many are trying to ban, has a success rate around 15% if I remember correctly.

[Smokin Joe]

   So deeply profound @libertybele
   Thanks for sharing.

Yes, @libertybele, thanks. What gets me is that we saw this in the '60s, and even the '70s with heroin, in the 80 with blow, in the 90s with crack, in the 00s with Meth. Someone is quite literally making a killing.

And still, the GD border isn't secured.

[Wingnut]

Yes, @libertybele, thanks. What gets me is that we saw this in the '60s, and even the '70s with heroin, in the 80 with blow, in the 90s with crack, in the 00s with Meth. Someone is quite literally making a killing.

And still, the GD border isn't secured.

Ooooh that smell....  Can't you smell that smell

[Smokin Joe]

Ooooh that smell....  Can't you smell that smell

Yes, @Wingnut , weed throughout, but weed has changed, too. Now it smells like someone is cremating a skunk. Still, if unadulterated*, there are lots who swear it is not physically addicting. Those others I mentioned are.

*If you didn't grow it, you don't KNOW it.

[Gefn]

Considering that at its basic self, AA is a voluntary program, you'd expect the success rate to be higher.

But there's a problem:

Not all people are there of their own volition. (Not all the people in treatment programs are there because they want to quit.) A tremendous number are there because they have been court ordered to attend AA meetings, either as part of their court ordered treatment, or part of their sentence.

Wanting to quit is probably the single most important thing in a successful treatment program, because, ultimately, someone who doesn't want to quit (entirely) will find a way, find an excuse, just this once, to go back to it.
Believe it or not, those court-ordered people often sit around and talk abut how much they miss being out, and their plans to tie one on when they get there, at least according to people I have known who did get in trouble and end up in treatment facilities because the 'evaluation' people found them to be Alcoholics or Addicts.

You'd hear them talking about it down at the bar. Of several dozen people I have known who got DUIs, only two were not judged by the evaluation people to be Alcoholics. They were not all heavy drinkers.

These were people who held down jobs and raised families and generally maintained, but who didn't that time, or were just slightly over the limit, for the most part. Did they drink regularly? Yep. 2-3-4-5 beer a night, after work, after dinner. Did they have a 'problem' with alcohol? In my unprofessional estimation, some did, some didn't. I think the evaluation people were very aggressive in their interpretation of who was an "alcoholic".

I think if you were to take the people who showed up at AA because they actually wanted to quit, the numbers would be considerably higher.

AA works but you have to hit bottom. Again, if you are a casual drinker who has been court. Ordered to do 90/90 it isn't going to work.

You have to want it, just like you have to want to loose weight, etc. If you don't want it bad enough, or haven't hit bottom, it's not going to work.

[Gefn]

Sure there is. They're called "good samaritan laws". Have the Legislature throw a clause in for officers who administer Narcan, provide a seminar for the officers as a CE module or as part of their academy training.

Why would I say that? Because it does save lives. Because that will be the Road to Damascus moment for some addicts, and they will quit. They'll likely be in the minority, but as one who has a wayward grandson who was saved by a convenience store clerk who administered CPR and an officer with the shot, I'm glad they do. Last I heard the kid is still clean.

Here's the other tactic: Tell everyone (advertise it) that as of mm/dd/2017, our officers will no longer have access to narcan injections. EMS response time may be beyond the time limits for recovery from an overdose.

Leave carrying the injectors up to the individual officers,

@Smokin Joe , I'm glad about your grandson. The cops in my town carry narcan and I know they've saved quite a few lives. It's been in the paper.

[libertybele]

AA works but you have to hit bottom. Again, if you are a casual drinker who has been court. Ordered to do 90/90 it isn't going to work.

You have to want it, just like you have to want to loose weight, etc. If you don't want it bad enough, or haven't hit bottom, it's not going to work.

The problem as I see it is there aren't affordable rehabilitation programs; the costs are astronomical. It's one thing if an addict is still on their parent's insurance but what about those who don't have any insurance?  Sure, they can go through detox but some form of rehab is needed and then AA and/or NA afterwards.

[unite for individuality]

Considering that at its basic self, AA is a voluntary program, you'd expect the success rate to be higher.

But there's a problem:

Not all people are there of their own volition. (Not all the people in treatment programs are there because they want to quit.) A tremendous number are there because they have been court ordered to attend AA meetings, either as part of their court ordered treatment, or part of their sentence.

Wanting to quit is probably the single most important thing in a successful treatment program, because, ultimately, someone who doesn't want to quit (entirely) will find a way, find an excuse, just this once, to go back to it.
...

I think if you were to take the people who showed up at AA because they actually wanted to quit, the numbers would be considerably higher.

Also in the news recently is this one guy in Middletown (which is in Sheriff Jones' county)
whom the Middletown Police Department has revived with Narcan TWENTY times.
This one guy uses up half of the Department's Narcan budget!

[240B]

Also in the news recently is this one guy in Middletown (which is in Sheriff Jones' county)
whom the Middletown Police Department has revived with Narcan TWENTY times.
This one guy uses up half of the Department's Narcan budget!

Saw an article recently that said Middletown in particular, along with potentially other counties in Ohio, are trying to implement a 3 strikes policy. After a person has OD'ed 3 times, there will be no more treatment provided, by Police or anyone else.


I guess the issue is, what's the point? They are just going to do it again, so ... good luck with that.

[Suppressed]

This one just a few days ago was making the rounds, getting millions of views on the original sites.


https://youtu.be/0VfECkfFAbU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VfECkfFAbU

[Sanguine]

Saw an article recently that said Middletown in particular, along with potentially other counties in Ohio, are trying to implement a 3 strikes policy. After a person has OD'ed 3 times, there will be no more treatment provided, by Police or anyone else.


I guess the issue is, what's the point? They are just going to do it again, so ... good luck with that.

Yes, and would you want to be the poor officer on the scene saying "Hmmm, I wonder how many times this one had OD'ed and do I resuscitate or not" while the family or bystanders are screaming and the ACLU and BLM and SPLC and whatevers are standing around just waiting for an exploitable opportunity.  Nope, I sure wouldn't want to make that decision, and particularly in a crisis situation.  I don't want that on my conscience or be sued over it.