A Sheriff In Overdose Ravaged Ohio Says His Officers ‘Don’t Do Narcan’

[Emjay]

There was a newspaper article somewhere where one couple had overdosed 5-7 times. I can't remember the exact number.

Let them die
@240B

I'm not in the 'let them die' crowd and I've discovered that if one has a child with a problem, one immediately becomes more concerned about helping them and more tolerant of the weakness.

But... I don't have a solution.

[truth_seeker]

Anyone working in the 'Rehab Industry' is a Con Artist.

They're either deluding themselves with into believing they're making a difference, or they're misleading whoever is Paying them.

There is a current opportunity, thanks to Obamacare, for rampant corruption in the "treatment" industry.

But generally over the long term historically, people working in the area, are NOT "con artists," as you put it.

By that I mean the countless folks that volunteer and attend AA, etc.  From your writings, I can't tell if you are still using, or not.

[Emjay]

I just saw this statistic .... "Opioids (including prescription opioids  and heroin) killed more than 33,000 people in 2015, more than any year on record. Nearly half of all opioid overdose deaths involve a prescription opioid."

This is what's so ironic about the fear of marijuana.  It has been shown to be an effective substitute for prescription opiods for pain patients.  And almost no one dies of it.

And the prescription opiods are totally legal and one can always find a doctor willing to prescribe them.

[Sanguine]

There is a current opportunity, thanks to Obamacare, for rampant corruption in the "treatment" industry.

But generally over the long term historically, people working in the area, are NOT "con artists," as you put it.

By that I mean the countless folks that volunteer and attend AA, etc.  From your writings, I can't tell if you are still using, or not.

You can always tell when you feel you're losing an argument - you go straight for the jugular, whether deserved or not.

[Smokin Joe]

I just saw this statistic .... "Opioids (including prescription opioids  and heroin) killed more than 33,000 people in 2015, more than any year on record. Nearly half of all opioid overdose deaths involve a prescription opioid."

This is what's so ironic about the fear of marijuana.  It has been shown to be an effective substitute for prescription opiods for pain patients.  And almost no one dies of it.

And the prescription opiods are totally legal and one can always find a doctor willing to prescribe them.

The problem with "fear of Marijuana" is that you didn't specify medical marijuana.

Quite a few states are moving in the direction of legal medical marijuana, and that will be an experiment, but those areas which have flat out legalized marijuana are having problems. While the government is enamored of the tax revenue, and not particularly willing to undercut that revenue stream releasing crime statistics (or, in at least one case, not even recording property crimes below the Felony level, a situation which occurs when police departments are literally overwhelmed by crime levels), proponents are citing those flawed stats to make things look better. A friend moved out of Denver over this very thing.

While, on the basis of anecdotal evidence, the whole herb is more effective against the side effects of chemotherapy for non-hodgkins' lymphoma than the pill form THC was, keeping the genie in the tent once you let it out of the bottle is the hard part. For those seeking a high instead of merely relief, that food chain might well work in reverse, and there is plenty of heroin, some laced with fentanyl or carfentanyl (which are prescription opioids and common adulterants to street heroin, although the latter is used to subdue elephants) out there, and that is the deadly stuff.
We don't know how many of the prescription users were legitimate and how many were after the pills for a high (or their addiction, achieved by means other than valid pain treatment) how many were suffering from poor pain management and had some resistance to the opioid effects and could have used better pain management strategies, or for that matter, how many OD'd on purpose, for whatever reason.

[Smokin Joe]

There is a current opportunity, thanks to Obamacare, for rampant corruption in the "treatment" industry.

But generally over the long term historically, people working in the area, are NOT "con artists," as you put it.
>egregious and unnecessary personal attack edited out. "snip", and all that. SJ<

I think that depends on the individuals involved. Some definitely are not con artists in the sense that they are genuinely trying to help people get straightened out. Some are there for the paycheck and to Hell with all else.

Now, more than ever, a lot of income potential has been dumped into an industry, and that usually brings the scam artists rushing in.

I will say this. I have observed (although I am not a professional addiction person) that people who are flirting with the boundaries of addictive behaviour tend to be classified as addicts or alcoholics to get them into treatment, and those are often the success cases these people feel good about, perhaps with some reason, because the interdiction may have actually kept them from progressing further. The hardcore resent the interruption in their lifestyle and can't wait to get back, as a rule.

Success is dependent on those who want to get clean and sober wanting to, and frankly, there are a lot of court ordered cases who are determined not to. When they closed down a local twenty bed CDU, nearly a hundred bottles of alcoholic beverages were found in the patient areas of the facility during the subsequent hospital remodel, and other drugs besides.

Among those who genuinely want to quit, I would wager the tactics and techniques will be more effective.

But that does not, by any means, lessen the opportunity for fraud, and even a court ordered confinement which has incredible potential for corruption, especially with the Obamacare coverage opening up new veins of revenue to tap like never before. 

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

There is a current opportunity, thanks to Obamacare, for rampant corruption in the "treatment" industry.

But generally over the long term historically, people working in the area, are NOT "con artists," as you put it.

By that I mean the countless folks that volunteer and attend AA, etc.  From your writings, I can't tell if you are still using, or not.

Using What?

A Refusal to be conned into buying the Rehab Con Game's Behaviorist Bulls%%t?

http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/search/label/12%20Step%20Programs

2nd post

"AA’s actual success rate somewhere between 5 and 8 percent."

Without delving into the math of statistics, even a 50% success ratio is still a coin toss.

Even if we give these Rehab Industry Con Artists a 25% success ration that leaves 3 out of every 4 people they sucker being driven Back into the bottle, BY AA, than they would have been without AA.


"But generally over the long term historically, people working in the area, are NOT "con artists," as you put it."

If by 'the Area' you mean Rehab (encompassing the paid end of the Industry).

The hell they aren't.

No one is stupid enough to produce nothing but return customers all day every day to pay their bills, and tell the truth that if what they were peddling actually worked, they'd put themselves out of business.

ANY Professional Diagnosis is a lifetime disability for the consumer.

Without expensive, time consuming Court filings with no guarantee of winning, the suckered consumer is mined, for life.

None of these Professional Behaviorists have ever Legally Cured Anyone of Anything.

All they do is condemn and bash 'Symptoms' of their own Opinions of Incurable Mind/Behavioral Diseases.

EXCEPT, themselves and their Professional Co-Con Artists: Nurses and Hospital Staff.

http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/search/label/California%20Diversion%20Programs

http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/2012/02/study-15-of-surgeons-abuse-alcohol.html

You seem to think this is a joke.

http://www.behavenet.com/alcohol-intoxication

You sit in a bar window, with 2 cops outside watching you, have 2 drinks and then go put your keys in the ignition.

You're legally intoxicated, probably in handcuffs, and if you get within biting distance of the 'We charge Money To Treat Mental illness', mob you just bought yourself a lifetime of hell on earth.


Use the link below. Get an introductory whiff (from a safe distance) of something I very much doubt you know Anything about.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,268563.0.html

Don't go implying that I'm under the influence of any intoxicating substance to cover for your own ignorance.

It's unbecoming, especially from you who I've come to expect better of.

[jmyrlefuller]

There once was a time when using a Blogspot blog as a source would get you laughed off any Internet forum.

Now, in the age of Trump, it's taken as fact.

[Smokin Joe]

Using What?

A Refusal to be conned into buying the Rehab Con Game's Behaviorist Bulls%%t?

http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/search/label/12%20Step%20Programs

2nd post

"AA’s actual success rate somewhere between 5 and 8 percent."

Without delving into the math of statistics, even a 50% success ratio is still a coin toss.

Even if we give these Rehab Industry Con Artists a 25% success ration that leaves 3 out of every 4 people they sucker being driven Back into the bottle, BY AA, than they would have been without AA.


"But generally over the long term historically, people working in the area, are NOT "con artists," as you put it."

If by 'the Area' you mean Rehab (encompassing the paid end of the Industry).

The hell they aren't.

No one is stupid enough to produce nothing but return customers all day every day to pay their bills, and tell the truth that if what they were peddling actually worked, they'd put themselves out of business.

ANY Professional Diagnosis is a lifetime disability for the consumer.

Without expensive, time consuming Court filings with no guarantee of winning, the suckered consumer is mined, for life.

None of these Professional Behaviorists have ever Legally Cured Anyone of Anything.

All they do is condemn and bash 'Symptoms' of their own Opinions of Incurable Mind/Behavioral Diseases.

EXCEPT, themselves and their Professional Co-Con Artists: Nurses and Hospital Staff.

http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/search/label/California%20Diversion%20Programs

http://psychroaches.blogspot.com/2012/02/study-15-of-surgeons-abuse-alcohol.html

You seem to think this is a joke.

http://www.behavenet.com/alcohol-intoxication

You sit in a bar window, with 2 cops outside watching you, have 2 drinks and then go put your keys in the ignition.

You're legally intoxicated, probably in handcuffs, and if you get within biting distance of the 'We charge Money To Treat Mental illness', mob you just bought yourself a lifetime of hell on earth.


Use the link below. Get an introductory whiff (from a safe distance) of something I very much doubt you know Anything about.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,268563.0.html

Don't go implying that I'm under the influence of any intoxicating substance to cover for your own ignorance.

It's unbecoming, especially from you who I've come to expect better of.

There is already a substantial industry around court-ordered treatment. Just for alcohol.
What is even more insidious in the level of accuracy of Blood alcohol testing, or even just the ability of officers on the roadside to 'deem' a person under the influence, one instance of which I can think of the person had zero BAC. However, as you said, once within the behaviour managenemt system, classes are required, licenses are pulled, contingent on 'treatment' for their return and SR-22 filings for insurance, needless to say, jobs are lost, marriages dissolve, entire lives are changed, whether the person is actually guilty or not.

We found out why the Widmark Formula (based on body weight) calculated blood alcohol charts were coming out different from the BAC tests administered, the calculations always lower than the test results, because of assumptions made in the test interpretations.

Breath testing devices, for instance, assume a ratio between alvaeolar air alcohol and blood alcohol and multiply the breath alcohol number by that ratio. But not everyone's lung function or blood is the same, and the % by weight only fits those with that average function or blood.

Many convictions obtained by marginal readings or exactly the .08 BAC are wrong, because of the calculation methods. But lives are wrecked by those numbers, even when people are making every effort to NOT be legally DUI.   

But in the clamor for safety and security, those people will be sacrificed on the altar of sanctimony.

Note, too, it takes 45 minutes for the average person to absorb fully the drink they just drank (BAC peaks, so that's what the police officer is farting around for when he just pulled you over when you left the bar--your alcohol level to peak.)  If you knocked back a couple of shots on the way out the door and got pulled over for a "taillight out" you may have been fine while you were driving the six blocks home, but the shots will be in your system (long after you would have been home) at their peak effect about the time you get tested, and you're busted.

Then the follies begin!

Edited to add: A link to the Widmark Formula and Blood Alcohol Determination: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content#Widmark_formula

I don't drink, by choice. No DUIs, no treatment, just decided one day I didn't want to any more.

[unite for individuality]

There is a current opportunity, thanks to Obamacare, for rampant corruption in the "treatment" industry.

But generally over the long term historically, people working in the area, are NOT "con artists," as you put it.

There have been recent stories in the news of people doing exactly that!

"Sober houses" are popping up in South Florida
where they house addicts who are sent there for "rehab."

They MIGHT see a professional once a week,
but it is NOT the sort of "live-in therapy" touted almost daily by Dr. Phil !

The people running these scams do NOT want their "patients" cured!
The money is in relapses! 
They WANT their "patients" to stay, to keep the Obamacare money coming in!

The worst part of all this is, parents send their offspring to these "treatment" centers,
expecting them to be cured,
but they end up dead, from overdoses.