Author Topic: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill  (Read 15503 times)

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Offline XenaLee

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2017, 11:33:10 pm »
So what is the alternative for voters?  The Democrats?

Voters have become so accustomed to a two-party monopoly, many of them won't ever consider a third party candidate.  So they know they were lied to, but they will continue to vote Republican because the alternative, the Democrats, is worse.

A lot of them will vote 3rd party out of disgust..... and yeah, that equates to the rats winning for now.  But you have to start somewhere, some time.   And I think that will change with time.  Once word gets out that there really is a viable other option out there.... people that previously voted GOP via 'the lesser evil' will come around to it.
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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2017, 11:35:37 pm »
Single payer was the intent all along.  Both parties want government control over our health.  They want the power over life and death.  It's too intoxicating to pass up.

It would be hard to find much evidence that would disprove that.  And it pains me greatly to say that!
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Offline INVAR

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2017, 11:35:44 pm »
Single payer was the intent all along.  Both parties want government control over our health.  They want the power over life and death.  It's too intoxicating to pass up.

Ayup.  All this shinola with McConnell and Cruz and the GOP is just kabuki theater to string us along and placate their angry constituency while they work to ensure that the intent and grand design of Obamacare is achieved by attempting to convince the useless eaters that they alone can 'fix' the Obamanation which is now an entitlement that never had any business being enacted in the first place.

The power over life and death, guaranteed votes with support over fear of 'losing your healthcare' and endless money to grease their cronies - the Republicans want to take ownership of it all, so that even if they fail - they think they get a seat at the table when Trump or the Democrats institute Single Payer.

THAT is what explains all this bogus crap instead of the bills they kept putting forward to repeal this monstrosity when Obama was at the helm.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

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Offline skeeter

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2017, 11:37:41 pm »
Single payer was the intent all along.  Both parties want government control over our health.  They want the power over life and death.  It's too intoxicating to pass up.

This was the one issue that could force me to retire abroad.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2017, 11:41:09 pm »
One of the unwritten rules up there is that they protect each other no matter what!
Oh yeah. The 'good ol' boys' club is the first example of bipartisan cooperation.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2017, 11:51:23 pm »
Meanwhile... the propaganda campaign against repealing ObamaCare is ongoing.  Just saw something about how drug addicts will be left high and dry (boo hoo) if the Medicaid expansion in ObamaCare is removed.  Some drug that costs $1200 a dose, that they're getting FREE via Medicaid, will be unaffordable....and they're gonna die.   WTF?   

Well duh.... it seems to me that the problem isn't repealing ObamaCare.  It's the system in place that allows one stupid drug dose to be that damned expensive in the first place.   And only the truly poor drug addicts, that can't afford to pay for their own medical care (or anything else in life), get it free?  No friggin wonder we're circling the damned drain and about to be flushed.  This kind of stupidity and insanity has only one logical ultimate end.
Not sure what drug that is. Naloxone (Narcan) has gone up from $22 about a year ago to $56 a dose and as an opiate/opioid antidote (Effective against Heroin, fentanyl, etc. ODs) is probably the most important lifesaver for serious addicts. But $1200 is nuts. It is more widely available, and some jurisdictions have contracts with the drug company which have the price locked in below twenty bucks.

Consider the price of an Epipen versus Narcan, and the addicts can pay for their own.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online roamer_1

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2017, 11:57:48 pm »
Well duh.... it seems to me that the problem isn't repealing ObamaCare.  It's the system in place that allows one stupid drug dose to be that damned expensive in the first place.

BOOM, baby!

But the current problem is repeal, because obamacare will drive the cost even higher.

THEN start an investigation into the collusion between gov, insurance, med, and pharma.

 Start tearing down the monopoly structure.


Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2017, 01:54:18 am »
So Mitch will try to achieve a majority without his own party.

Exactly what type of leader is that?  Footsteps of John Boehner?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 01:54:43 am by IsailedawayfromFR »
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Offline Mom MD

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2017, 02:03:18 am »
So Mitch will try to achieve a majority without his own party.

Exactly what type of leader is that?  Footsteps of John Boehner?

Worse yet that means he is headed towards the "moderates" not the conservatives in his party.  Susan Collins for majority leader  /barf   :shrug:
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Online Right_in_Virginia

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2017, 02:08:41 am »
So Mitch will try to achieve a majority without his own party.  .../

I think this is where one blames the team, not the coach.

Offline ConservativeGranny

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2017, 02:33:47 am »
Why not?  He's done it enough to become good at it.

That's right. When you are traveling down the road and come to a fork choose the road you are most familiar with.

Online roamer_1

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2017, 03:41:35 am »
I think this is where one blames the team, not the coach.

Where was it that the buck stops again?

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2017, 04:15:25 am »
Where was it that the buck stops again?
Hey! That's Washington. "Buck? What buck?"
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline XenaLee

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2017, 04:34:25 am »
Not sure what drug that is. Naloxone (Narcan) has gone up from $22 about a year ago to $56 a dose and as an opiate/opioid antidote (Effective against Heroin, fentanyl, etc. ODs) is probably the most important lifesaver for serious addicts. But $1200 is nuts. It is more widely available, and some jurisdictions have contracts with the drug company which have the price locked in below twenty bucks.

Consider the price of an Epipen versus Narcan, and the addicts can pay for their own.

It's Vivitrol..... and apparently the cost varies.  Natch, the propaganda campaign commercial cited the highest cost to push their case against repealing ObamaCare. 


Quote
Vivitrol cost

It cost about $1,200.00 for one injection that "should" last a month. If they have a high metabolism, it only last about 3 weeks. (it does not block the use of crack cocaine)

https://www.drugs.com/answers/how-much-does-vivitrol-cost-can-anybody-help-me-331113.html

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Offline Drago

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2017, 08:43:10 am »
$1200./mo. to kick an opiate habit doesn't seen too outrageous. But if too outraged there is the higher rated "Suboxone" drug for $160.00 a month.


Offline txradioguy

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2017, 11:40:18 am »
So basically we're going to try and pass a bill that is barely cosmetic changes to the turd that exists now, so we can stand up on stage for a photo op, grinning, glad handing, and back slapping while telling Americans 'we did something!'

It's been his standard MO for the last 8 years...why change now?
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2017, 12:17:30 pm »
So basically we're going to try and pass a bill that is barely cosmetic changes to the turd that exists now, so we can stand up on stage for a photo op, grinning, glad handing, and back slapping while telling Americans 'we did something!'

It is far more than cosmetic changes.   According to the CBO, it will reduce premiums by 30 percent.   That's significant.   Also,  block-granting the Medicaid expansion frees up billions for tax relief for ordinary Americans.

 I understand the conservative opposition -  it preserves community rating.  But that reflects a sea-change in attitudes -  a decade ago the issue of pre-existing conditions wasn't on the radar, but Obama's election and the ACA has changed that.   Politically,  community rating is here to stay - or, at least,  cannot be addressed at this time given the certainty of political attack ads accusing Republicans of abandoning kids in wheelchairs.

The ACA must be addressed in stages, and the Senate bill is a worthy first step.   This is no time for conservatives' "principles" to defeat an honest attempt to fix the ACA.   We need to realize that protection for pre-existing conditions is what people want - and no amount of conservative hectoring about the "unworthy" poor is going to change that.   As Kimberley Strassel wrote in this morning's WSJ:

Quote
It's a binary choice, rooted in blunt political reality; which ought to make it an easy call.   The question is whether conservatives will be savvy enough to forge a face-saving compromise and seek victories elsewhere in the bill.  The health care debate has changed over the last decade, and Republicans can't reverse it on a dime.  But they can pass a bill that starts the walk back to freer health-car markets. 
 
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 12:19:58 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2017, 12:35:01 pm »
It is far more than cosmetic changes.   According to the CBO, it will reduce premiums by 30 percent.   That's significant.   Also,  block-granting the Medicaid expansion frees up billions for tax relief for ordinary Americans.

 I understand the conservative opposition -  it preserves community rating.  But that reflects a sea-change in attitudes -  a decade ago the issue of pre-existing conditions wasn't on the radar, but Obama's election and the ACA has changed that.   Politically,  community rating is here to stay - or, at least,  cannot be addressed at this time given the certainty of political attack ads accusing Republicans of abandoning kids in wheelchairs.

The ACA must be addressed in stages, and the Senate bill is a worthy first step.   This is no time for conservatives' "principles" to defeat an honest attempt to fix the ACA.   We need to realize that protection for pre-existing conditions is what people want - and no amount of conservative hectoring about the "unworthy" poor is going to change that.   As Kimberley Strassel wrote in this morning's WSJ:
 

Unless it's total repeal of this Republican version of Socialized...Government Run Healthcare...nothing will change for the people who ultimately have to pay the increased costs and/or penalties for being healthy and not needing the insurance.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 12:36:04 pm by txradioguy »
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2017, 12:36:22 pm »
$1200./mo. to kick an opiate habit doesn't seen too outrageous. But if too outraged there is the higher rated "Suboxone" drug for $160.00 a month.
@Drago @XenaLee
Interesting comment at Xena Lee's link:
Quote
DocSteinberger 18 Feb 2013

How much does Vivitrol cost? Too much. If cost is a concern, why not take the pill - Naltrexone - and skip the expensive shot? And if you really want to quit and still have a functioning liver (as most people do) consider taking Antabuse (unless you have a health problem or allergy that makes that impossible). But you have to really want to take a pill that makes you incredibly ill IF you drink on it. And that's IF, not when. It's a deterrent that you can choose to take in the morning so the choice becomes obvious - don't drink - in the evening.

But somewhere, there is the nigling thing about taking a drug to get off drugs...
Maybe that is all that will work for some folks, and I'm not judging it in that light, but it always seemed like just getting a different set of chains to wear.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2017, 12:38:06 pm »
It is far more than cosmetic changes.   According to the CBO, it will reduce premiums by 30 percent.   That's significant.   Also,  block-granting the Medicaid expansion frees up billions for tax relief for ordinary Americans.

 I understand the conservative opposition -  it preserves community rating.  But that reflects a sea-change in attitudes -  a decade ago the issue of pre-existing conditions wasn't on the radar, but Obama's election and the ACA has changed that.   Politically,  community rating is here to stay - or, at least,  cannot be addressed at this time given the certainty of political attack ads accusing Republicans of abandoning kids in wheelchairs.

The ACA must be addressed in stages, and the Senate bill is a worthy first step.   This is no time for conservatives' "principles" to defeat an honest attempt to fix the ACA.   We need to realize that protection for pre-existing conditions is what people want - and no amount of conservative hectoring about the "unworthy" poor is going to change that.   As Kimberley Strassel wrote in this morning's WSJ:
 
Okay! Increase by cost 500% now on sale at 30% off.... *****rollingeyes*****

That's a pure sucker play.

For Kimberly Strassel to present this issue--ANY issue as a binary choice is that good ol' limited thinking false dichotomy again.

How about this: Repeal the ACA or watch the 'health care' industry implode. Repeal it, or America will be back to third world medicine for everyone but the federally subsidized and federal employees (more federally subsidized) while the people paying the tab can't afford what they are required to provide for everyone else.

This is another wealth redistribution scheme, but the leeches are killing the host, literally.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 12:43:07 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2017, 12:56:59 pm »
I think this is where one blames the team, not the coach.
Get a new coach.

No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline txradioguy

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2017, 01:02:26 pm »
I think this is where one blames the team, not the coach.

Don't blame the coach who said on 68 different occasions he was going to repeal Obamacare "day one"?

Any other coach that made a claim like that and didn't deliver once...much less 67 more times would have been fired a long time ago.

The coach ultimately has the responsibility for the success or failure of the team.

Except of course in your alternate reality where the coach is NEVER wrong and it's ALWAYS someone else's fault.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline XenaLee

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2017, 01:06:42 pm »
Don't blame the coach who said on 68 different occasions he was going to repeal Obamacare "day one"?

Any other coach that made a claim like that and didn't deliver once...much less 67 more times would have been fired a long time ago.

The coach ultimately has the responsibility for the success or failure of the team.

Except of course in your alternate reality where the coach is NEVER wrong and it's ALWAYS someone else's fault.

Quote
U.S. President Donald Trump urged Republican U.S. senators on Friday to repeal Obamacare immediately if they cannot agree on a new health care plan to take its place.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-to-senate-republicans-kill-obamacare-now-replace-later/ar-BBDu4YD?li=BBnb7Kz


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Offline txradioguy

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2017, 01:10:20 pm »


He's the "coach"...if he truly wants it bad enough he simply has to say..."don't bring me any legislation that doesn't fully repeal Obamacare and expect me to put my signature on it".

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline XenaLee

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2017, 01:15:17 pm »
He's the "coach"...if he truly wants it bad enough he simply has to say..."don't bring me any legislation that doesn't fully repeal Obamacare and expect me to put my signature on it".

Well.... this was just reported an hour ago.  Lets see if anything comes of it before we go off half-cocked, shall we.

The pattern is at least consistent (consistently psycho?).  He does something really stupid/bad (that was yesterday)..... and then he does something we can approve of (supposedly).  Rinse.  Repeat.

No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.