Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I'd call your Trump vote pointless, but it isn't. It's helping to destroy your country.

I'll stand on the principles the Founders laid down. You can stand with whatever liberal you like.

We need to destroy the country. As it stands political correctness, socialism, feminism, et. al are taking over.

Burn it all down, frankly.

[Norm Lenhart]

We need to destroy the country. As it stands political correctness, socialism, feminism, et. al are taking over.

Burn it all down, frankly.

So Vote for Hillary. It'll happen just as fast and you won't have the stink of Trump on you.

[Smokin Joe]

Of all the people that will be on the ballot, Pence is the only one even mildly Conservative. Johnson/Weld, Donny, Hitlary/Eyebrows and Stein are all big govt' Leftists. Castle is just plain fruitloops.

If you listen to the libertarians tell about Castle, that is the story you will get.
For instance, they call him a "troofer" (He wants the truth, the other 28 pages of the 9/11 commission report released, the ones which deal with Saudi Connections, where all the terrorists came from) He isn't one of those Bush did it, fired a missile, etc. types.

If you listen to Castle say what Castle says, and not a derivative account, it is a different story.

(Of course, the Libertarians are pushing to be THE third party, and they have the best name recognition, so they wouldn't say anything bad about other smaller parties, would they?)

[Smokin Joe]

I would love to be able to channel the founding fathers and find out what they have to say about all this.  I think I already know, but confirmation would be great.

Under the circumstances, even Washington might forget his rules of civility. If you ever open that portal, don't stand directly in front...

[JustPassinThru]

That's what keeps the game going.

Uh...nope.

What keeps this game going, is the VAST majority of alleged "citizens" who have no business in a voting booth.  Trump wasn't put in there by any dark, gray magic-man; he was put in there by people who Eric Hoffer has called, decades earlier, "True Believers."  They prefer the arrogant gesture, the shock value, to reasonableness. 

They got it.  Now we have a choice of bad or worse.

Take your pick.  No responsible person is going to be cheered by Trump.  But do you want this miserable, treasonous, evil, neurologically-impaired Marxist in there?

[JustPassinThru]

We need to destroy the country. As it stands political correctness, socialism, feminism, et. al are taking over.

Burn it all down, frankly.

What do you propose to do once it's reduced to nothing?

This is what Alinsky proposed.  Level everything, and out of chaos, the confused, frightened masses will welcome totalitarianism.

Before you knock down the tumbledown shack that's your house you have to have a PLAN.  A trailer to move into.  A rental.  Build a new home first.  Whatever...if you fail to plan, you plan to fail.

[Smokin Joe]

Uh...nope.

What keeps this game going, is the VAST majority of alleged "citizens" who have no business in a voting booth.  Trump wasn't put in there by any dark, gray magic-man; he was put in there by people who Eric Hoffer has called, decades earlier, "True Believers."  They prefer the arrogant gesture, the shock value, to reasonableness. 

They got it.  Now we have a choice of bad or worse.

Take your pick.  No responsible person is going to be cheered by Trump.  But do you want this miserable, treasonous, evil, neurologically-impaired Marxist in there?

Sadly, it isn't about what I want.

Neither Party is offering that on the top of the menu, so I'm looking at another party and hoping I can help build that into what I want.

In the meantime, I'd be shocked if my single vote made any difference in the contest between GOP and Democrats. It won't. Not this time. It might, however be important in terms of my longer term goal, so I will try it there.

[kartographer]

Rewarding evil with your vote only begets more evil.  If there is anything we should have learned by now that is it.

[Smokin Joe]

What do you propose to do once it's reduced to nothing?

This is what Alinsky proposed.  Level everything, and out of chaos, the confused, frightened masses will welcome totalitarianism.

Before you knock down the tumbledown shack that's your house you have to have a PLAN.  A trailer to move into.  A rental.  Build a new home first.  Whatever...if you fail to plan, you plan to fail.

I think we ought to dust off the Constitution and use it. What's old is new, and all that.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I agree. Which is why I am voting Constitution Party. I wrote letters, I withheld contributions, I showed up at meetings, but couldn't stop that leftist progression. The party keeps going that way. I can't stop the GOP train, but I don't have to ride.

The problem isn't the party. The problem is the electorate, and that doesn't change no matter how many times people may change parties, or seek to start a new one.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

If you don't buy the kids candy today, but take that money and put it into their college fund where it will grow for their future, do you feel guilty? (perhaps, they're kids, after all, but you get over it knowing you have invested in their future).
This year, my vote goes to invest in the future. I don't expect huge results right away, in fact, those results will take time, and will depend on others like me investing in their futures as well. It is evident that neither the GOP nor the Democrats are going to return this country to the Constitutional Republic it should be. That Republic is our legacy to our progeny, to discard, destroy, or recover and strengthen, as we will. They will bless us for it or curse the mention of our name. The wailing and whining of today, put in that future historical perspective pales in comparison to the praise for having the wisdom to make that investment.
Consider, of the larger of the 70 odd "third" parties, there is one which makes its platform on the Constitution of the United States of America. On stripping the Federal Government of those powers it has usurped and returning them to the States and to the People. That would, of necessity, reduce the size and scope of the Federal Government, returning it to the duties the Founders envisioned. That is a far more attractive starting point than any Party which would require a major ideological overhaul to get back in line with that aim.
Please take a look at Darrell Castle and the Constitution Party, and consider that investment.

Thank you for that thoughtful reply.  It helps.

[roamer_1]

The problem isn't the party. The problem is the electorate, and that doesn't change no matter how many times people may change parties, or seek to start a new one.

I don't think that's true. The country overwhelmingly self-identifies as conservative. The problem is in getting an actual conservative through the primaries to be presented to the country at large. Primary voters tend to be activists, and tend to be more malleable than the conservative base. The win means more to them than the ideology, and thus their emphasis is on shallow details like showmanship and how the candidate looks.

In the mean time, those primary voters who are actual conservative activists get ignored and yelled down. But they are closer to electoral reality than their rah, rah Republican counterparts are... To wit: Every Republican president I voted for won... Every Republican I didn't vote for lost... To include this next one.

Conservatism is a recipe in a political sense - What is going to win is the guy that actually adheres to the principles of all the factions. Trying to do otherwise denies the conservative base in some faction or another, and without all of them, loss is nearly guaranteed.

[Norm Lenhart]

I don't think that's true. The country overwhelmingly self-identifies as conservative.

Bruce Jenner identifies as a woman. He isn't either.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

So Vote for Hillary. It'll happen just as fast and you won't have the stink of Trump on you.

No Hillary will prop up and benefit from it.

[unknown]

No Hillary will prop up and benefit from it.

Shhh, don't tell anyone, but that is what they want. This is one of those unspeakable things around here. Ooops, I said it, I think.

[Norm Lenhart]

Shhh, don't tell anyone, but that is what they want. This is one of those unspeakable things around here. Ooops, I said it, I think.

Well since you feel so free to piss all over Myst on that subject I can't say I'm really surprised. you ARE a Trump supporter afterall.

[Longmire]

Shhh, don't tell anyone, but that is what they want. This is one of those unspeakable things around here. Ooops, I said it, I think.

They're backed into a corner, all their contingencies are foreclosed. A sadder bunch of losers I've never seen.

Let'em stew in their own juices for a while. Trump isn't imploding Clinton is...right on schedule. 

[Norm Lenhart]

They're backed into a corner, all their contingencies are foreclosed. A sadder bunch of losers I've never seen.

Let'em stew in their own juices for a while. Trump isn't imploding Clinton is...right on schedule. 

Who is this "They" you refer to? Surely not us NeverTrumpers. Because WE arent the ones backing one of her big donors for office.

[Smokin Joe]

The problem isn't the party. The problem is the electorate, and that doesn't change no matter how many times people may change parties, or seek to start a new one.

The electorate will make its choices depending on what it believes is available. Everyone will order chocolate and vanilla if you don't tell them they can have strawberry, too. The problem is that the media have convinced the electorate (with the blessings of the two major parties) that there is no other choice. As for changing parties, this is the only time I have.

Yes, the Party is the problem. For two decades we have been calling for a clear and contrasting alternative to Big Government Liberalism, and for two decades the party has slid to the left, claiming it wasn't "moderate" enough. That isn't why it has been losing, but because it is too 'moderate' (liberal). Despite the fact that Trump is a Liberal, he came out the gate mouthing the platitudes Conservatives wanted to hear. Some people went all in with that, some of us didn't trust his conversion, and still don't.

[Smokin Joe]

Thank you for that thoughtful reply.  It helps.

You're welcome.

[Smokin Joe]

They're backed into a corner, all their contingencies are foreclosed. A sadder bunch of losers I've never seen.

Let'em stew in their own juices for a while. Trump isn't imploding Clinton is...right on schedule. 

Well, Hell's Bells! If you have a copy of the schedule, why don't you share it.

[Smokin Joe]

Shhh, don't tell anyone, but that is what they want. This is one of those unspeakable things around here. Ooops, I said it, I think.

Hey, Svengali. I hear there may be a few county fairs left. Maybe you could take your mind-reading act on the road.

[Frank Cannon]

Hey, Svengali. I hear there may be a few county fairs left. Maybe you could take your mind-reading act on the road.

Svengali? More like Svengoolie....

[Smokin Joe]

Svengali? More like Svengoolie....

Actually, I enjoy that show. It has more corn than Iowa, but it's fun.

[ConstitutionRose]

I agree. Which is why I am voting Constitution Party. I wrote letters, I withheld contributions, I showed up at meetings, but couldn't stop that leftist progression. The party keeps going that way. I can't stop the GOP train, but I don't have to ride.

For me, for this election, the charm of voting for a third party is to make a protest against the two mainstream parties.  Either the GOP party will listen, or those of us who care will find a home elsewhere. Given our choices this election, making that change has to start now.  A viable third party is not impossible.  Will it take years.  Maybe not.  When things get bad, change happens quickly.  I'd like it to be the right kind of change.  Enough third party voters this election could be a catalyst.