Hate to say it, but I came on here looking for a fight....

[Bigun]

That is not true. She is going out of her way to do what a owner wants her to do. Don't give RiV grief because of that. She is just doing what she was asked to do.

Your opinion is noted and if true the problem is much more deeply seated that I imagined!

[Bigun]

I vehemently disagree!  (It is good that we are having this conversation, no?)....   She had been carrying a task as assigned by the ownership.

We can debate the wisdom of the task, but let us never disparage the person that does her duty!  Agreed?

See my response to poster flowers above!

[katzenjammer]

Victoria33 posted straight out that she's voting for Hillary Clinton.

IMO, that renders whatever the hell she has to say on the subject, irrelevant.

Well, if that be the case, then all that visit these environs will make what they will of that point of view....

[katzenjammer]

See my response to poster flowers above!

Yes, friend, there is a DEEP seated problem, many decades in the making....  we both can espouse for days upon it (and be in strong agreement throughout)....  in 2016 we are left with two choices, imperfect is one, hellishly unacceptable the other....  I will cast my sole vote with clear conscience, as I am certain that you will also....  let up on the workers, their hearts are pure,....  you are a bigger man than that... I know that to be true...

[Frank Cannon]

Victoria33 posted straight out that she's voting for Hillary Clinton.

IMO, that renders whatever the hell she has to say on the subject, irrelevant.

Donald Trump is a steaming pile of garbage as a human being and an abject failure as a businessman. Write me three solid paragraphs on how you understand that and that you see why others have problems with him but that you think Hitlary is the worse of the two choices.

Do that and I will vote for your man Donny here in PA......otherwise you are the irrelevant one.

[mystery-ak]

@mystery-ak

'There's an elephant in the room, Myst.   You're left with so few pro-Trump posters .... most of them leaving because it really has become Animal House in the Politics Forum.  There's no discussion, there are bullies and insults and when that fails, graphics that are intentionally demeaning to Trump and his supporters flood a thread.  Just look at the thread you posted on Melania Trump.

Here's the elephant, Myst:  Is this or is this not a site that supports the Republican nominee for President?

If yes, give the NeverTrumps a sub forum (like the TCG) to rant and express their alternate opinions.  If no, then knowing the nevertrump players, the expectation of respectful dialogue in a unified forum is unsustainable.

This is a Political forum period.

Since R and I do not agree on the nominee this is the first year TBR will not endorse...but that does not mean R or even I will not support Trump at least I reluctantly.

I am not doing anymore sub-forums or splitting the forum in two anymore..it has caused too much divisiveness here.

[mystery-ak]

After 7 pages this thread is spiraling downward.

[Victoria33]

YOU, Marcella, need to be dealt with.

@katzenjammer

I was on the board when mysterty-ak renamed the Trump section, "On The Campaign Trail! (PRO TRUMP ONLY)" and she asked non Trumpers to not post there.  Your confusion about free speech Trump threads and "PRO TRUMP ONLY" threads should be taken up with her and the other owner who wants that section to be "PRO TRUMP ONLY."

[Chasaway]

@mystery-ak
...give the NeverTrumps a sub forum (like the TCG) to rant and express their alternate opinions.  If no, then knowing the nevertrump players, the expectation of respectful dialogue in a unified forum is unsustainable.

Now, look...this is what I mean. Because you disagree with someone's position, a "respectful dialogue in a unified forum is unsustainable."

I mean, what the hell does that mean?!! Unless we agree with you, we can't have a respectful dialogue?!

Good grief! What else do you need to read/write to get what I'm saying?!

[Victoria33]

@DCPatriot

You bet if my vote for Clinton would keep an insane Trump out of office, it would be worth it.  Never trust an insane person to be sane because he/she IS insane.

[mystery-ak]

I was on the board when mysterty-ak renamed the Trump section, "On The Campaign Trail! (PRO TRUMP ONLY)" and she asked non Trumpers to not post there.  Your confusion about free speech Trump threads and "PRO TRUMP ONLY" threads should be taken up with her and the other owner who wants that section to be "PRO TRUMP ONLY."

That is correct but I did not name it Pro Trump Only..... :nometalk:

[Chasaway]

And @Right_in_Virginia, you're a damn moderator!

What does that say? What does that tell everyone?

[katzenjammer]

I was on the board when mysterty-ak renamed the Trump section, "On The Campaign Trail! (PRO TRUMP ONLY)" and she asked non Trumpers to not post there.  Your confusion about free speech Trump threads and "PRO TRUMP ONLY" threads should be taken up with her and the other owner who wants that section to be "PRO TRUMP ONLY."

You missed the point.  There should be no "(PRO TRUMP ONLY)" sub-forums.  Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence are the GOP nominees; support them, or support HRC, your choice.

[katzenjammer]

And @Right_in_Virginia, you're a damn moderator!

What does that say? What does that tell everyone?

What does that tell everyone?  It tells everyone that Nancy chose an intelligent and fair-minded person to moderate a very contentious sub-forum.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Me, either!!

@Right_in_Virginia, come on...you know what I mean. If I go anywhere that's not an echo chamber and have questions or criticisms of Trump, I'm attacked. So, I've got to either go away or fight back. 

So you want to criticize Trump?  Yes?  Okay .... But personally I find that approach rather counterproductive to a Republican victory in November.  Speaking for myself, I find it tiresome to keep debating the outcome of the primaries, rehashing the magnificence of former candidates, and debate points trying to convince me that Hillary would be better in the Oval Office than Donald Trump.

But hey, that's me.  And when any of these points are posted I either fight or ignore.  That's the essence of any political forum:  fight or ignore.   

Surely, as a Trump supporter, you understand the need to fight back. And surely, as smart and aware as you are, you see people with questions about Trump being attacked rather than answered.

Of course I do.  But in fighting back, I'm fighting for.  I'm not stuck in a primary season that has ended.  I'm moving toward Donald Trump's victory---first because I have long thought Mr. Trump is the right man at the right hour to lead our nation.  Second to that is ... our nation will be unrecognizable after four/eight years of Hillary Clinton.  And her court appointments will make sure her transformation of America is sustained for two generations.

At this point in the election, fighting back against Trump really only helps the opposition.

It's simple, really. That's all it is. I came on here saying that I'm expecting a fight. I'm expecting it from rabid [maybe not you...don't know] Trump supporters. There might be SOME debate about substance, but largely it's attacks or attempts to discredit the one who posits the question.

I will not "attack" you.  I will, however, question your logic and perceived outcome of continuing to degrade the Republican nominee.  That's called "discussion".

I will also be happy to answer questions you have about Trump's policies that are asked in the spirit of seeking an answer--not dissing the candidate.

Let me know what you come up with and we'll see if we differ. 

I do not know what else you are looking for from me @Chasaway

[Victoria33]

@katzenjammer

As I have said, I will vote for Clinton if that would keep insane Trump out of office.  Even if I did, I live in Texas and Trump will get our electoral votes.

[katzenjammer]

So you want to criticize Trump?  Yes?  Okay .... But personally I find that approach rather counterproductive to a Republican victory in November.  Speaking for myself, I find it tiresome to keep debating the outcome of the primaries, rehashing the magnificence of former candidates, and debate points trying to convince me that Hillary would be better in the Oval Office than Donald Trump.

But hey, that's me.  And when any of these points are posted I either fight or ignore.  That's the essence of any political forum:  fight or ignore.   

Of course I do.  But in fighting back, I'm fighting for.  I'm not stuck in a primary season that has ended.  I'm moving toward Donald Trump's victory---first because I have long thought Mr. Trump is the right man at the right hour to lead our nation.  Second to that is ... our nation will be unrecognizable after four/eight years of Hillary Clinton.  And her court appointments will make sure her transformation of America is sustained for two generations.

At this point in the election, fighting back against Trump really only helps the opposition.

I will not "attack" you.  I will, however, question your logic and perceived outcome of continuing to degrade the Republican nominee.  That's called "discussion".

I will also be happy to answer questions you have about Trump's policies that are asked in the spirit of seeking an answer--not dissing the candidate.

I do not know what else you are looking for from me.

Not much more can be said, other than, "You Rock, RiV!!!"   

[katzenjammer]

katzenjammer[/member]

As I have said, I will vote for Clinton if that would keep insane Trump out of office.  Even if I did, I live in Texas and Trump will get our electoral votes.

Like ALL of us, you are free to vote your conscience!  I hope that you find some degree of enjoyment and satisfaction when you cast your vote for HRC, I really do!  :)

[Right_in_Virginia]

Not much more can be said, other than, "You Rock, RiV!!!"   

Thanks, @katzenjammer   888blushing8888

[Right_in_Virginia]

And @Right_in_Virginia, you're a damn moderator!

What does that say? What does that tell everyone?

Ohhhh.... you jumped the shark with this question @Oceander   

[Chasaway]

More to the point, "Mr. I Came Here Looking for a Fight" does it mean to you @Chasaway/

Good try at deflecting again. Come on! Everyone says you're smarter than that.

You said in a previous post,  "So you want to criticize Trump?  Yes?  Okay .... But personally I find that approach rather counterproductive to a Republican victory in November." and then, " I'm moving toward Donald Trump's victory."

Soooo....reckon selling other folks on your beliefs and answering criticisms about him would be a productive way for Trump supporters to spend their time/energy? Or do you ascribe to the slash and burn tactics of many of them, a tactic sure to run huge numbers of them away?

Because the topic of this thread is not that I/we hate Trump or necessarily disagree with him, but that we'd like to have a reasoned discussion about our doubts/questions about him.

Why do you try to demean what I'm saying or distract from what I said? This wasn't a thread about Trump's positions or the fact that you want to vote for him...

Copernicus called....he says the universe doesn't revolve around you or your desires.

It was about what I said it was about: The AMAZING dearth of answers by Trump supporters to the questions raised by those of us on the fence. Instead, we receive veiled (or even overt) accusations of "just not getting it", that we don't understand the risk of a HRC presidency, that we're just too slow to keep up with the greater things at play.

Can you guys just once, admit your guy has MAJOR flaws? That he has major issues? That there are people who need to be won over, not run over?

Just once?!

Good grief, @Right_in_Virginia!!! You're credited by many with a great mind.

Can you not see where we're coming from?!! Can you not see what we need to hear from you folks?!! Can you not for once put down all of the shields and just talk to us?!!

NONE of us want a socialist/communist/HRC country! But for Pete's sake, lady...we're not mental incompetents, either.

We actually WANT to be sold on the guy! We're just not, as of yet.

We have the questions we have for a reason!

Don't make me keep doing this with you. Not you, for crying out loud.

C

[Right_in_Virginia]

Your gig is up, O.

[Chasaway]

Ohhhh.... you jumped the shark with this question @Oceander   

Lady, you just demonstrated an enormous amount of arrogance and conceit with that statement!

Are you telling me that I jumped the shark by asking a question about how your statements would speak volumes about you?

Who are you? And where did your ego come from?

Unless you have been granted a god-ship, some form of unapproachable status, your statements are as open to evaluation as anyone else's.

Deal with the content of my posts, rather than implying some sort of threat based on your "status".

Please.

[Chasaway]

Your gig is up, O.

Why do you keep referring to me as "O"?

[Chasaway]

My experience has been the exact opposite.  Nothing BUT games are played on threads she moderates; therefore, I refuse to enter any thread where she is moderator.

You know, this thread illustrates something interesting. As I write this, there are just over 1400 views. If the Trump supporters wanted to disprove what I posited, this would be a terrific opportunity to do so.

However, they have instead done everything they can to prove my point. Even to the point of a moderator attempting to spin/mischaracterize my initial thesis.

There have been personal attacks, denigration of people/ideas, diversion, distraction, mischaracterization, etc.

But very little attempt by the Trump supporters to try to answer the statement: Why is it so difficult to ask questions/make criticism of Trump without being attacked?

Rather, they walked right into it and proved the point.

Sad, right?