Monckton: It’s Time For ‘Texit’ — Texas Should Secede, Thatcher Advisor Says

[austingirl]

There is a surprising amount of snark directed at Texans and Texas on this thread. Also a lack of knowledge about the history of the Civil War and the Founding Principles. It seems that many people have accepted the notion of a massive, debt-ridden, unconstitutional national government in place of a Union of Sovereign States with a weak federal government with very limited powers.

It is sad that a Convention of States has not been done given the overreach of the executive branch, the legislation from the bench by the Supreme Court, and the legislative branch setting themselves above the people they are supposed to serve. We have lost our Republic.

[austingirl]

....Besides,   I think if Texas chose to seek independence,   probably Oklahoma,  Arkansas and Louisiana would join them.    Possibly the whole thing could spread to much of the original confederacy,   except for Virginia of course,   because nowadays Virginia pretty much has it's tongue so deeply down the Federal throat.   


I would expect that some of the western states might go too.   Hard to say what would happen before. 



Years ago I read a prediction by a Russian social scientist who claims the US would eventually divide up into five naturally occurring districts.    He seemingly put a lot of work into his theory.

Interesting ideas. A national government does not work in such a large land mass with sharply divided regional differences.

[DiogenesLamp]

So what would you do to that 20%?  Declare them illegal aliens and deport them?  Build a wall all the way around the state to keep them out?

Why is there a need to do anything?   We have expats living all over the world right now.   People ought to  be free to live in whatever country they like.   Why would Texas deport people who are not causing trouble?   


But what they would do is stop the illegal aliens coming across the Mexican border.   

[Ghost Bear]

This last year  I've been studying the civil war more so than I have for most of my life,   and it now appears to me that the primary reason for the war is not at all what most people think.   


In fact it appears that the vast majority of people are completely unaware of what were the real reasons for the commencement of the civil war.    To sum it up in one word,   it was "money."

There's a quote my wife recites a lot, it's from one of Robert Heinlein's books (a quick Google search says it was To Sail Beyond the Sunset): "Any question that starts out 'why don't they--' the answer is always 'money'."

I've found that answer usually works for "why didn't they--" and "why is it--" and "why are they--" too.

[RedHead]

There is a surprising amount of snark directed at Texans and Texas on this thread. Also a lack of knowledge about the history of the Civil War and the Founding Principles. It seems that many people have accepted the notion of a massive, debt-ridden, unconstitutional national government in place of a Union of Sovereign States with a weak federal government with very limited powers.

By all means enlighten us.

[Free Vulcan]

Besides,   I think if Texas chose to seek independence,   probably Oklahoma,  Arkansas and Louisiana would join them.    Possibly the whole thing could spread to much of the original confederacy,   except for Virginia of course,   because nowadays Virginia pretty much has it's tongue so deeply down the Federal throat.   


I would expect that some of the western states might go too.   Hard to say what would happen before. 



Years ago I read a prediction by a Russian social scientist who claims the US would eventually divide up into five naturally occurring districts.    He seemingly put a lot of work into his theory.

It's already happening. The country is breaking apart regardless if people want to see it or not. America is starting to develop into separate cultures and interests that are often in opposition, if not outright hostility to each other.

Any severe financial pressure is only going to exacerbate if not precipitate that.

[RedHead]

I have never talked about "walking out," but rather the secession process that has always been to have a vote by the people of Texas and, if it passed, to negotiate our freedom from the national government. None of what you state is true, most especially that the South wanted war when they seceded.

"War is the remedy our enemies have chosen. Other simple remedies were within their choice. Yon know it and they know it, but they wanted war, and I say let us give them all they want; not a word of argument, not a sign of let up, no cave in till we are whipped or they are." - William Sherman

[RedHead]

In fact it appears that the vast majority of people are completely unaware of what were the real reasons for the commencement of the civil war.    To sum it up in one word,   it was "money."

Money...slaves...po-tay-to...po-tah-to.

[Cowboyway]

Years ago I read a prediction by a Russian social scientist who claims the US would eventually divide up into five naturally occurring districts.    He seemingly put a lot of work into his theory.
 

Here's a good read on the subject: Rethinking The American Union for the Twenty-First Century

https://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-American-Union-Twenty-First-Century/dp/1589809572

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Funny how when I mentioned that SS payments should be cut off to Texans if they secede they started whining like little girls! 

Everyone wants their gubment money! 

[Cowboyway]

Money...slaves...po-tay-to...po-tah-to.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause." ---Abe Lincoln

Why was Lincoln so adamant about saving the Union?  Because he need revenue and cotton from the South.

Money.

[Cowboyway]

Funny how when I mentioned that SS payments should be cut off to Texans if they secede they started whining like little girls! 

Everyone wants their gubment money! 

If seceded/liberated Texans would be responsible for their part of the federal debt then the federal government is responsible for repaying Texas citizens the money that they have been robbing from them for their SS Ponzi scheme.

Perhaps that money could be part of the debt negotiation.

[DiogenesLamp]

There's a quote my wife recites a lot, it's from one of Robert Heinlein's books (a quick Google search says it was To Sail Beyond the Sunset): "Any question that starts out 'why don't they--' the answer is always 'money'."

I've found that answer usually works for "why didn't they--" and "why is it--" and "why are they--" too.

Oddly enough,   one of my primary clues that the war was started over money came from an anti-confederacy website called "Dead Confederates."   


Here it is. 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

If seceded/liberated Texans would be responsible for their part of the federal debt then the federal government is responsible for repaying Texas citizens the money that they have been robbing from them for their SS Ponzi scheme.

Perhaps that money could be part of the debt negotiation.

No, there's no negotiation. You need leverage to have negotiation. Another welfare queen crying about gubment money! 

[DiogenesLamp]

"War is the remedy our enemies have chosen. Other simple remedies were within their choice. Yon know it and they know it, but they wanted war, and I say let us give them all they want; not a word of argument, not a sign of let up, no cave in till we are whipped or they are." - William Sherman

And which side invaded which?   

[DiogenesLamp]

Money...slaves...po-tay-to...po-tah-to.

The Union didn't care about slaves,   but it d@mn sure cared about money.   

[Cowboyway]

Money...slaves...po-tay-to...po-tah-to.

Who do you post as on FR?

I used to engage in battle with a group of union fanatics over there and your posting style is familiar.

(BTW, most of the most vitriolic South haters over there are now Trump fanatics.)

[DiogenesLamp]

Funny how when I mentioned that SS payments should be cut off to Texans if they secede they started whining like little girls! 

Everyone wants their gubment money! 

You're a strange one for a conservative website.    You seem to think that money taken out of people's checks is "gubment money"  instead of belonging to the people who earned it.   


Where did you get this odd notion that our overseers  are entitled to the fruits of other people's labor? 

[DiogenesLamp]

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause." ---Abe Lincoln

Why was Lincoln so adamant about saving the Union?  Because he need revenue and cotton from the South.

Money.

It was a bigger concern than that.   Look at that map of Tariff collections I posted and see if you can see what I saw in it. 

[Ghost Bear]

Thread's getting derailed, again. Don't feed the trolls!   

 

[Cowboyway]

No, there's no negotiation. You need leverage to have negotiation. Another welfare queen crying about gubment money! 

Welfare queen?  When did money paid into the federal government with a promised return become welfare?  Are you just trying to degrade this discussion into a name calling spat?

FWIW, I pay money to the gubmint and quite a bit of it and I don't receive a dime from them.  What's your status?

[Cowboyway]

Thread's getting derailed, again. Don't feed the trolls!   

 

Any discussion on secession will inevitably turn into a Civil War debate and is usually started by secession opponents.  Since they can't argue logically or legally about secession they have to resort to revisionist history and name calling.

[Sanguine]

So in other words walk away from your share of the national debt, a large part of which was run up under three Texas presidents?  No thank you. 

Debt is an obligation the country entered into while Texas was part of it.  Texas cannot just walk away from it like the South tried to in 1861.  A negotiated separation would require that Texas accept their fair share of it.  Based on population that would be about 9% of the total, or about $1.7 trillion.

As for Social Security and Medicare, those are programs for U.S. citizens.  Accepting citizenship in a foreign country, like Texas, is considered an expatriating act and you relinquish your U.S. citizenship.  as part of that you give up all rights and privileges that go along with it.  So Medicare is gone, since you will not be getting medical treatment in the U.S.  Social Security is a little more complex, and the U.S. could refuse to send payments to people living in Texas.  They do it for other countries.

First, currently it's not happening, and secondly, something like that wouldn't be up to you and me, so not sure what the point of arguing the finer points is.

Thirdly, you can't have it both ways. 

[Sanguine]

Or 170 years of Texas stereotypes.  But so often stereotypes are grounded in fact.

Yeah, that one would be wrong. 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Welfare queen?  When did money paid into the federal government with a promised return become welfare?  Are you just trying to degrade this discussion into a name calling spat?

FWIW, I pay money to the gubmint and quite a bit of it and I don't receive a dime from them.  What's your status?

I send SS, many tax dollars etc. You don't get a refund when you renounce citizenship afaik. Why would texas separatism get special favoritism?