Author Topic: Cruz: Those who bolstered Trump 'will bear that responsibility going forward'  (Read 121566 times)

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Offline Bigun

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And, just going to put this out there - comparing DT to hitler is just wrong.  Just flat wrong.

You're right! Comparing him to Mussolini is much more correct if you ask me!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline DB

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Now you're asking a different question.

Your original question was:  "Did the other guy want to eradicate people when he ran?"

And, the answer is "yes, he did".  As is the answer to your second question:

In a way you're making my point. Trump is attacking "globalism" via free trade, international treaties like NATO, etc. in the name of America first. Just replace Jew with Mexican as far as people go. I do not believe Trump is a homicidal maniac nor am I trying to make that association but I also don't believe the German voters thought that the guy who cannot be named was either.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2016, 11:36:13 pm by DB »

Offline GtHawk

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..."I want to ask each of you to imagine, imagine millions of courageous conservatives, all across America, rising up together to say in unison “we demand our liberty. Today, roughly half of born again Christians aren’t voting. They’re staying home. Imagine instead millions of people of faith all across America coming out to the polls and voting our values."!
   
    -- Ted Cruz
        Liberty University address
Well I'm really glad that you agree with Ted on this, now tell me, if you will how this statement is markedly different from what he said at the convention. *hmmmm*

Offline Sanguine

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In a way you're making my point. Trump is attacking "globalism" via free trade, international treaties like NATO, etc. in the name of America first. Just replace Jew with Mexican as far as people go. I do not believe Trump is a homicidal maniac nor am I trying to make that association but I also don't believe the German voters thought that the guy who cannot be named was either.

Sure they did!  Go do some contemporary reading. 

You're working way too hard to stretch this to make your point.  Which was my point.

Offline libertybele

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You're right! Comparing him to Mussolini is much more correct if you ask me!

 888high58888    :beer:
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Trump has managed to tap into the anger and frustration of the electorate; there is absolutely no denying that.  Obviously what is in dispute is why?  To make America great, to make himself wealthier, the need for power, to hand Hillary the White House??  We do know that he has verbally stated his thirst for 'vengeance' and he has made obvious uncalled for attacks on several individuals and groups of people in order to accomplish his objective.  He continues to mirror the personality traits of Hitler; a narcissistic, psychopathic demagogue. All things considered he has the potential to be equally as dangerous as Hitler.  Why give him the keys to the kingdom?
Oh, I won't. The thing that separates him from another homeless prophet on a streetcorner is his money and a willing audience. That other chap didn't have the money Trump has, but he did have a willing and angry mob, organization within that mob, very good handlers, and he frightened and browbeat enough people into not objecting or meekly following when they should not have gone along with the true believers to get along. They could have stopped him, or made him irrelevant by looking the other way. His manifesto would not have meant any more than the Unabomber's if the people had not followed him, be that willingly, grudgingly, or out of abject fear.

When we look back at that war, and the unapologetic aerial bombing of military and civilian target alike, those who study the ethics of that often leave out that without the people, the leader would have been a nobody, and not a contender. It is that synergetic symbiosis which creates tyranny most foul.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 01:03:54 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cripplecreek

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Oh, I won't. The thing that separates him from another homeless prophet on a streetcorner is his money and a willing audience. That other chap didn't have the money Trump has, but he did have a willing and angry mob, organization within that mob, very good handlers, and he frightened and browbeat enough people into not objecting or meekly following when they should not have gone along with the true believers to get along. They could have stopped him, or made him irrelevant by looking the other way. His manifesto would not have meant any more then the Unabomber's if the people had not followed him, be that willingly, grudgingly, or out of abject fear.

When we look back at that war, and the unapologetic aerial bombing of military and civilian target alike, those who study the ethics of that often leave out that without the people, the leader would have been a nobody, and not a contender. It is that synergetic symbiosis which creates tyranny most foul.

That "leader" was nothing without a blindly angry mob (who were in fact a minority) and those who meekly looked the other way or went along to get along.

Offline Smokin Joe

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That "leader" was nothing without a blindly angry mob (who were in fact a minority) and those who meekly looked the other way or went along to get along.
Precisely, but give his handlers credit, too. Milestones in propaganda, the distribution thereof, the soft sell, the use of shock tactics and intimidation, the development of military tactics and materiel, process engineers, efficiency experts, chemists, etc... He was surrounded by people who were very good at what they did, some of the 'best'.  We do not agree with the purpose to which they devoted their talents, but let's not sell their capabilities short. The methods of his tacticians and propagandists are still studied today, and we made off with a bunch of scientists, either a step ahead of his conscription or after the war--as did the Soviets and British.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cripplecreek

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Precisely, but give his handlers credit, too. Milestones in propaganda, the distribution thereof, the soft sell, the use of shock tactics and intimidation, the development of military tactics and materiel, process engineers, efficiency experts, chemists, etc... He was surrounded by people who were very good at what they did, some of the 'best'.  We do not agree with the purpose to which they devoted their talents, but let's not sell their capabilities short. The methods of his tacticians and propagandists are still studied today, and we made off with a bunch of scientists, either a step ahead of his conscription or after the war--as did the Soviets and British.

Agreed. I think the leader could have been appeased by simply evicting the Jews from Europe but others in the hierarchy were never going to accept anything less than total extermination.

As far as propagandists of that era go, they largely learned it from our Wilson era propogandist like Edward Bernays and Walter Lippman. Goebbels was known to show his copy of Bernays "Crystallizing public opinion"

Offline Smokin Joe

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Agreed. I think the leader could have been appeased by simply evicting the Jews from Europe but others in the hierarchy were never going to accept anything less than total extermination.

As far as propagandists of that era go, they largely learned it from our Wilson era propogandist like Edward Bernays and Walter Lippman. Goebbels was known to show his copy of Bernays "Crystallizing public opinion"
Do not forget Leni Riefenstahl, Producer of Triumph des Willens, probably the most effective propaganda film of all time. (Triumph of the Will). Lighting, staging, camera angles, dramatic effects all designed to evoke Teutonic emotionalism, nationalism, the feeling of Roman Legions lined up for war, of strength unstoppable. Heady stuff for a defeated nation just out of a depression looking to it's army for prestige.
If they had Oscars for Propaganda (as a separate class, now they just nominate for Best Picture), she would have swept the awards. This was a relatively new medium, and she used it masterfully. Who knows what she could have done with television, which was still in its infancy.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis