Author Topic: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures  (Read 2192 times)

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HAPPY2BME

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The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« on: February 16, 2016, 11:45:23 pm »


David Frum comments on the Republican divisions exposed at Saturday’s debate (via Dreher):

    For a decade and a half, Republicans have stifled internal debates about the George W. Bush presidency. They have preserved a more or less common front, by the more or less agreed upon device of not looking backward, not talking candidly, and focusing all their accumulated anger on the figure of Obama. The Trump candidacy has smashed all those coping mechanisms. Everything that was suppressed has been exposed, everything that went unsaid is being shouted aloud—and all before a jeering live audience, as angry itself as any of the angry men on the platform.

It’s not quite true that all of these things have gone unsaid for all this time. Dissenting Republicans and conservatives have been saying some version of them for the last fifteen years, and on some issues for much longer than that, but party and movement leaders weren’t interested in hearing any of it. On the contrary, they were determined to squelch internal debate and demonize those that made awkward and embarrassing criticisms of Bush and his allies from the right. The point is that there were plenty of opportunities in the last decade for the GOP and conservative movement to acknowledge the colossal errors of the Bush years and to try to learn from them, but their leaders were committed to making excuses and rationalizations for Bush-era failures long after Bush left office.

Republicans told themselves that the electoral defeats in 2006 and 2008 were flukes or simply the result of “wasteful spending,” which naturally didn’t include the trillions being wasted in an unnecessary foreign war. The fantasy that the “surge” was a great success was another way to avoid thinking about how disastrous and costly the war had been. Many Republicans took for granted that Bush had “won” the war by the end of his presidency, which was even more absurd but extremely convenient for the war’s supporters.

Midterm victories in 2010 and 2014 helped the party to avoid reckoning with the toxic Bush legacy a little longer. The last two presidential nominees were either identified closely with major parts of Bush’s agenda or had no substantial disagreements with most of it. Each time the GOP could have repudiated Bush, it mostly chose to reaffirm support for him and what he had done. That they chose to do this year after year is all the more bizarre when one remembers that Bush left office with one of the lowest approval ratings of all time. The more that the country rejected Bush, the more desperately party and movement leaders clung to him and ensured that his toxicity would continue to poison the party for many more years.

In his own hapless way, Jeb Bush forced the issue by running for president. He made all of his brother’s failures fair game for criticism from the other candidates when he insisted on defending his brother’s record. Because Jeb Bush has been one of the more vocal opponents of Trump, he encouraged Trump to become the most vocally anti-Bush Republican in the field. The Bush dynasty is fortunately coming to an end, but not before one of its members unwittingly created the opening for Republicans to have the debate about the disastrous Bush administration that they have avoided having for ten years.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/the-gop-is-finally-debating-bush-era-failures/

Offline sinkspur

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2016, 11:50:26 pm »
The Republicans are not debating Bush.

Only Trump is raising these issues.  Orange-haired orangutans should not be taken seriously.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2016, 11:54:16 pm »
" Everything that was suppressed has been exposed, everything that went unsaid is being shouted aloud—and all before a jeering live audience, as angry itself as any of the angry men on the platform."

Yup. Trump,regardless of his intentions,has done the nation a service by daring to challenge the PC assumptions that had been allowed to pass as facts because the left had used the tool of "ism" (racism,sexism,etc,etc,etc) to silence conservatives from pointing out the truth about leftism. Trump spoke out and wasn't even struck by lightening! Not only that,but the more he spoke out in a non-PC manner,the higher his ratings went despite him never having an actual plan to solve any of our national problems.

IF America is lucky enough to survive long enough to have another actual election,maybe the kid gloves will be off by then,and a new Barry Goldwater will emerge?

How ironic is it that Goldwater was a Jew,and was attacked by many,many Jews in ways that would lead to screams of "Anti-Semitism" if pulled on a Jew running for office today?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2016, 11:56:21 pm »
The Republicans are not debating Bush.

Only Trump is raising these issues.  Orange-haired orangutans should not be taken seriously.

Regardless of who the messenger is,he is shouting messages that need to be heard and adopted by the mainstream.

Who knows,maybe somebody that is serious about it will start shouting similar messages?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

HAPPY2BME

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2016, 11:57:10 pm »
IF America is lucky enough to survive long enough to have another actual election,maybe the kid gloves will be off by then,and a new Barry Goldwater will emerge?

============================

I'm sure you've been watching what's been going on between Russia and Turkey and North and South Korea.

What you just said is more real than you think.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2016, 12:02:21 am »
Regardless of who the messenger is,he is shouting messages that need to be heard and adopted by the mainstream.

Who knows,maybe somebody that is serious about it will start shouting similar messages?

Blaming Bush for 9/11 is asshattery of the highest order.

And, just today:  "9/11 would not have happened under my watch. We would have figured out a way to stop it."

Just ponder the utter vacuity of that ridiculous statement.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 12:02:42 am by sinkspur »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2016, 12:06:29 am »
Last I heard, W polls at around 55% approval. Trump can't break 40%.

Doesn't that mean that Trump is a bigger loser than the guy he claims is a loser?


Offline sneakypete

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2016, 12:21:10 am »
Blaming Bush for 9/11 is asshattery of the highest order.

And, just today:  "9/11 would not have happened under my watch. We would have figured out a way to stop it."

Just ponder the utter vacuity of that ridiculous statement.

I agree. I will even go so far as to say Boy Jorge's response to the attacks on 9-11 were his finest moments.

Still,American traditionalists/conservatives are tired of being the world's whipping boy as well as the worlds bankers and babysitters. Many are also tired of having a choice of voting for a globalist with a R behind his name,or that same globlalists' good friend with a D behind his name.

A choice with no distinction other than at least one of them isn't  lying to you about his or her goals.

People are just so fed up with this crap that Trump can get in front of a tv camera and throw any kind of verbal bombs he wants,and they stand up and applaud him. IMHO,it is more of a case of them being fed up with the status quo than it is their love of Trump,but they are willing to take what they can get and run with it.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 12:21:40 am by sneakypete »
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sinkspur

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2016, 12:33:30 am »
I agree. I will even go so far as to say Boy Jorge's response to the attacks on 9-11 were his finest moments.

Still,American traditionalists/conservatives are tired of being the world's whipping boy as well as the worlds bankers and babysitters. Many are also tired of having a choice of voting for a globalist with a R behind his name,or that same globlalists' good friend with a D behind his name.

A choice with no distinction other than at least one of them isn't  lying to you about his or her goals.

People are just so fed up with this crap that Trump can get in front of a tv camera and throw any kind of verbal bombs he wants,and they stand up and applaud him. IMHO,it is more of a case of them being fed up with the status quo than it is their love of Trump,but they are willing to take what they can get and run with it.

Yep.  They'll settle for the dog's breakfast of a circus clown.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2016, 12:41:21 am »
Yep.  They'll settle for the dog's breakfast of a circus clown.

Which seems entirely reasonable when a dogs breakfast is more appealing than the slop dished out by the GOP.

Seems like GOP stands for "Grand Old Posers" these days more than anything else. The GOP establishment is firmly in the Globalist camp.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2016, 12:45:42 am »
Republicans ought to be railing against the manifold failures and intentional wounds inflicted upon America by Obama.

Instead, Trump has them at each others' throats, because like the man whose office he hopes to inherit, we all must accept uncritically his delusions of grandeur, or else face his wrath.   
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Offline Sanguine

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2016, 12:47:41 am »
Whoa!  There's a lot of agreeing going on here!

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2016, 12:49:16 am »
“Between 1989 and 2010, The Donald gave $314,300 to Democratic groups and candidates… Records show that in June 2006, Trump donated $20,000 to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. That was in addition to the $5,000 he sent in April 2005 to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee… Topping the flamboyant former TV celebrity’s roster of Democratic benefactors is scandal-plagued New York U.S. Rep. Charlie Rangel. Records show the Harlem-based Democrat has received $26,250 in Trump cash since 1989. Trump Jr., has given heavily to Rangel as well. New York Sens. Kristen Gillibrand and Chuck Schumer have received $7,950 and $7,900, respectively, in Trump money. And two liberal lions, former Massachusetts Sens. John Kerry and Ted Kennedy, received $5,500 and $5,000.”

http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/03/donald-trump-donated-heavily-to-democrats-especially-during-election-which-put-reid-and-pelosi-in-power/
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2016, 12:56:14 am »
“Between 1989 and 2010, The Donald gave $314,300 to Democratic groups and candidates… Records show that in June 2006, Trump donated $20,000 to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. That was in addition to the $5,000 he sent in April 2005 to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee… Topping the flamboyant former TV celebrity’s roster of Democratic benefactors is scandal-plagued New York U.S. Rep. Charlie Rangel. Records show the Harlem-based Democrat has received $26,250 in Trump cash since 1989. Trump Jr., has given heavily to Rangel as well. New York Sens. Kristen Gillibrand and Chuck Schumer have received $7,950 and $7,900, respectively, in Trump money. And two liberal lions, former Massachusetts Sens. John Kerry and Ted Kennedy, received $5,500 and $5,000.”

http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/03/donald-trump-donated-heavily-to-democrats-especially-during-election-which-put-reid-and-pelosi-in-power/
Yes, but to be fair: Trump is not the only Republican who has failed to learn that bribing your enemies doesn't buy their loyalty - it only buys you time.
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2016, 01:06:53 am »
The Republicans are not debating Bush.

Only Trump is raising these issues. 

 :bsflag:    The mere sight of the entire Bush family is raising these issues. 

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2016, 01:08:17 am »
Last I heard, W polls at around 55% approval. Trump can't break 40%.   

Are you reading GOP polls again?   :pondering:

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2016, 01:11:36 am »
We don't need the Bushes in this race.  Remember, W was grossly unpopular during his last term.  So unpopular that he wasn't invited to the 2008 convention or asked to speak at the 2012 convention.

I just don't understand what we gain by having a Bush in the running.  Do we really need to pick at the W scab?   **nononono*

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2016, 01:17:55 am »
We don't need the Bushes in this race.  Remember, W was grossly unpopular during his last term.  So unpopular that he wasn't invited to the 2008 convention or asked to speak at the 2012 convention.

I just don't understand what we gain by having a Bush in the running.  Do we really need to pick at the W scab?   **nononono*

Well for one thing he and Kasich and much more minorly Dr. Carson are the ONLY things keeping your guy in the race!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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HAPPY2BME

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2016, 01:18:00 am »
Which seems entirely reasonable when a dogs breakfast is more appealing than the slop dished out by the GOP.

=========================

OMG

Offline EdinVA

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2016, 01:35:31 am »
It takes all of us for an administration to be successful, and WE dropped the ball.
The career executives in charge of the various non-intelligence agencies deliberately refused to communicate and share their parts of the Bin Ladin puzzle, which is, IMO, criminal.
Whatever information President Bush used to make his decision was either flawed or fabricated, which we will likely never know.
We ALL cheered when the decision was made to invade Iraq and take out the jerk and tuned into CNN 24/7 so we could see every sorte and every explosion.
But we would not allow either President Bush or the Military to fight the war like a war, we insisted on being nice.
We refused to utilize a Marshal like Plan to reestablish a civilized society, however, we did not realize we were dealing with such an ignorant society which not only had no concept of fundamental human decency but were raised to be against democracy.
And we continue to send our troops into a disastrous situation with asinine rules of engagement led by a government more concerned with social engineering than defeating the enemy.

Offline aligncare

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2016, 01:41:57 am »
Well for one thing he and Kasich and much more minorly Dr. Carson are the ONLY things keeping your guy in the race!

Illogical.

The leading candidate, Trump, who has greater support than the next 2-3 candidates combined is hanging on?  While the bottom 4-5 candidates have the real mojo in this race?

How does that work exactly?


Offline truth_seeker

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2016, 01:51:52 am »
It takes all of us for an administration to be successful, and WE dropped the ball.
The career executives in charge of the various non-intelligence agencies deliberately refused to communicate and share their parts of the Bin Ladin puzzle, which is, IMO, criminal.
Whatever information President Bush used to make his decision was either flawed or fabricated, which we will likely never know.
We ALL cheered when the decision was made to invade Iraq and take out the jerk and tuned into CNN 24/7 so we could see every sorte and every explosion.
But we would not allow either President Bush or the Military to fight the war like a war, we insisted on being nice.
We refused to utilize a Marshal like Plan to reestablish a civilized society, however, we did not realize we were dealing with such an ignorant society which not only had no concept of fundamental human decency but were raised to be against democracy.
And we continue to send our troops into a disastrous situation with asinine rules of engagement led by a government more concerned with social engineering than defeating the enemy.
Don't forget the "true conservatives" that ridiculed Colin Powell, when his warning "you break it you own it" was cited.

How true but the GOP is continually discarding their own people.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2016, 02:05:36 am »
Republicans ought to be railing against the manifold failures and intentional wounds inflicted upon America by Obama.

Do you really think it is a coinkidink that the Pubbies are just discussing this now that there is widespread disaffection w/ what the Dems have done?

No, it is a tactic to try to remind some fraction of voters just how 'bad' it was under Bush II and help get Her Heinous elected.

Kinda like when tobacco companies became 'newsworthy' when Bob Dole was running.  You did notice that... right?

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2016, 02:16:47 am »
...
We ALL cheered when the decision was made to invade Iraq and take out the jerk and tuned into CNN 24/7 so we could see every sorte and every explosion....


We refused to utilize a Marshal like Plan to reestablish a civilized society, however, we did not realize we were dealing with such an ignorant society which not only had no concept of fundamental human decency but were raised to be against democracy.


Ok,to start with ALL of us did NOT cheer that idiotic decision. SOME of us were content to let the Sunnis and the Shites kill each other off,and saw no need to remove Hussein  from the equation. After all,he and Iraq were responsible for killing more fundie Muslims that EVERY OTHER NATION IN THE WORLD.

Only idiots or someone with a private agenda that would benefit from getting the US involved in a war that was none of our business could possibly think upsetting the status quo was a good idea.

As for a Marshall Plan,HTH do you think that was even possible? The Marshall Plan was to restore the industrial and civil societies of civilized countries.  To do that you have to HAVE a history of civilization and industrial might. How anybody can think we can civilize a region where it is acceptable to rape both male and female children overnight and recreate something that never existed there in the first place is a mystery to me.

These people are NOT Americans or Europeans that dress and talk funny,and have practically nothing in common with either Europe or the US. Not only that,but they are convinced their ways are the best.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: The GOP Is Finally Debating Bush-Era Failures
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2016, 02:19:02 am »
Illogical.

The leading candidate, Trump, who has greater support than the next 2-3 candidates combined is hanging on?  While the bottom 4-5 candidates have the real mojo in this race?

How does that work exactly?

What I THINK he means is he thinks the supporters of the bottom three would rally around either Trump or Cruz and cause either to pull in more votes than Trump. I have heard others make the same claim.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!