Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision

[mystery-ak]

I'm active-duty Air Force and have been in 19 years.  I've been deployed and had 6 tours in South Korea.  SOFAs are a BIG DEAL for the troops, as if something wrong happens (car accident, angry locals), you don't want the local police arresting you.

So, liberal talking point, my @ss!

Why don't you get over there and do something.

Thanks for your service..I am an air force brat myself..

[Carling]

Better be careful. I got a perfect 40 on all of my rifle qualifications.

.

I don't believe you.

[musiclady]

LOL!  Does that mean that you actually believe that the problems in the ME started with Bush, and that you ARE the stupidest person on earth??

That's quite the admission!

(I made the mistake of assuming you were just playing a silly troll part here and that you really didn't believe the absolute IDIOCY that Bush caused all the trouble in the ME.  Maybe I'm the dumb one for thinking that you were brighter than that....)

[musiclady]

If the mission was crystal clear, give it to me in one sentence.

To take out Saddam Hussein.

Mission accomplished.

[Godzilla]

Obama couldn't repeat in Syria what he did in Libya because Putin told Obama to stick his "red line" up his a$$.

Today, Putin protects Syria to the point of allowing a military base in the country.  Plus, Russian troops are fighting ISIS in Syria.

Furthermore, ISIS was not 'born' in Iraq.   It was born in Benghazi, Libya, thanks to Obama and Clinton.  Our compliant media went along with Obama's order to stay out of Libya while he softened Gaddafi's military.  Two weeks promised became 6 months plus.

What puzzles me about Dexter and Godzilla et al....the evidence of Obama's actions and deeds clearly prove that he wants ALL dictators deposed...Libya, Iraq and Syria.  I'd include Egypt, but Obama's butt buddies...the Muslim Brotherhood were defeated by the Egyptian military in a successful coup, ultimately defining the MB as a terrorist organization.   Obama WANTS an Islamic State controlled by Teheran, Iran.

The USA is NOT an occupier force. 

We had the entire world behind us when we entered Iraq to depose Saddam Hussein.  Bush's way of giving thanks was to structure an agreement that we would leave a residual military in Iraq until it was proven that free elections could work and the centuries old rival between clans would cool down.

They had to pick a date, so why not 2011?

Soon as Maliki demanded American soldiers answer to Iraqi law and courts, Obama pounced on it as a way to leave Iraq defenseless.

WTF is so difficult for some of us in here to comprehend that?   

Russia has had a military base in Syria since 1971.  ISIS was not a cover for Russia to build one.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_naval_facility_in_Tartus

And ISIS originated from wealthy Gulf states funding Al-Quada aligned resistance groups in Syria... while we starved the secular groups of funds and equipment.  Benghazi was a 'too little, too late' attempt to remedy that.

And we really didn't have great support for our invasion of Iraq.  We had a coalition, but outside of the UK - there was only token support.  Compare that to the coalition we had with the first Gulf war.  Furthermore, France, Russia, and China opposed us.  Again, compare that to the first Gulf War, where Russia and China didn''t oppose our invasion.

---

And I'm here to correct the factual inaccuracies in people's statements.  If that calls your original thesis into question, you might want to rethink it.

[musiclady]

Not. Good. Enough.

You said, and I quote: "We can know with certainty that a Bush-Cheney administration would not have left Iraq in the hands of a caliphate."

Proof, ML.  Give me the proof; not your suppositions and wishful thinking.  Give me the certainty.

OK...  I'll back off the 'certainty'  part of it.  Especially when it comes to proving it to people who don't understand the character of both GW Bush and Dick Cheney.

I'll never prove anything to you, RIV.  No matter what Dick Cheney says, you won't believe him, so why should you believe me when I quote him?

You won't.  Because you don't believe that Cheney is telling the truth.....

[Dexter]

LOL!  Does that mean that you actually believe that the problems in the ME started with Bush, and that you ARE the stupidest person on earth??

That's quite the admission!

(I made the mistake of assuming you were just playing a silly troll part here and that you really didn't believe the absolute IDIOCY that Bush caused all the trouble in the ME.  Maybe I'm the dumb one for thinking that you were brighter than that....)

ISIS wouldn't be what it is if we had never invaded Iraq.

[musiclady]

ISIS wouldn't be what it is if we had never invaded the Middle East.

Do you ever get dizzy with all the spinning you do??

Go back and read this sequence of conversation, and try to straighten your brain out and reply with something that makes at least a tiny bit of sense.


(I'm not going to repost it all to make you try to understand.  In spite of your regurgitated leftist talking points, I do think you have a functioning brain, so I'll let you do it yourself....    )

[Godzilla]

I still do not understand our obsession with Iraq.  We knew Osama and AQ were in Afghanistan, but we chose to invade Iraq and weaken our fight against the ones who attacked us. 

Iraq, IMO, was a waste of American blood and treasure...loses made worse by the power vacuum we created.

I still try, but am not able to reconcile why we did this.   

At the time, I thought we were going to use Iraq as a launching platform for an invasion of Iran.  So I supported it.  We had Afghanistan on one side of Iran... and Iraq on the other.  It would have been a giant pincer movement to crush the Iyatollah long before they were anywhere near as close to buillding a nuke as they are now.

[musiclady]

At the time, I thought we were going to use Iraq as a launching platform for an invasion of Iran.  So I supported it.  We had Afghanistan on one side of Iran... and Iraq on the other.  It would have been a giant pincer movement to crush the Iyatollah long before they were anywhere near as close to buillding a nuke as they are now.

Actually we ended up with that potential under Bush.  We did have them surrounded, but the lack of strategy after the successful mission that was accomplished made us run out of time, and the constant media spin making what was happening in Iraq seem even worse than it actually was made that impossible.

[Godzilla]

ISIS wouldn't be what it is if we had never invaded Iraq.

ISIS would never have existed if we had supported the secular rebellion against Assad within a few weeks (no more than a month or two) after their rebellion started.  ISIS only got started when we starved the rebelling Syria army units of cash and weapons... while the rich Gulf states lavishly funded the Al-Quada aligned terror groups in their bid to oust Assad.

Mind you, the rebelling army units rebelled because they were ordered to open fire on the citizens of towns that were in open defiance against Assad.  They wouldn't kill their own families and so rebelled, along with the citizenry of those towns.

[Fishrrman]

Right_in_Virginia asks above:
[[ If the mission was crystal clear, give it to me in one sentence. ]]

Overthrow Saddam Hussein and replace his regime with a representative form of government elected by the people.

How's that?

Aside:
I have answered what I believe the "intent" of the mission (insofar as promulgated by the Bush administration) was supposed to be.
I -DO NOT- claim that this could be successful (at least as it was executed).
And I have posted why several times before in this forum.

[DCPatriot]

Hey!  I thought you were gone.   

Anyway ....  as I was sayin'--Obama left Iraq (and they were not defenseless...not after all the years we spent training them) was because both Maliki and he wanted the US out.  For Maliki it was a dumbass political calculation, for Obama it was a dumbass campaign pledge. 

As for ISIS, I don't care where the birthing room was.  I think these fanatical groups grow naturally in the sand.  But I believe heart, mind and soul that they never would have set their sights on Iraq if Saddam were still around.  That would have left them to Syria where they would have been contained and more easily destroyed.

Now go enjoy the rest of the holiday.  (That's my plan).   ^-^

Curtain call is all.

[musiclady]

Curtain call is all.

And a sweet Ohio State victory over Virginia Tech!  ^-^

[DCPatriot]

By the way you should take care of who you toast.  I hate the National Security hating morons on the right who are also Trumpetts in general.

Remember, bkepley...I said to Once-Ler on the day Trump announced that I was not going to forget we're all brothers on the same team. 

That includes you, despite your obsession on the matter.  I'm sure you and I agree on most every other issue/plank.

So the toast was sincere, and I hope we can continue to do so into the future. 

[Carling]

ISIS would never have existed if we had supported the secular rebellion against Assad within a few weeks (no more than a month or two) after their rebellion started.  ISIS only got started when we starved the rebelling Syria army units of cash and weapons... while the rich Gulf states lavishly funded the Al-Quada aligned terror groups in their bid to oust Assad.

Mind you, the rebelling army units rebelled because they were ordered to open fire on the citizens of towns that were in open defiance against Assad.  They wouldn't kill their own families and so rebelled, along with the citizenry of those towns.

Bullbleep!  Obama was arming Islamic groups against Assad far prior to the false "secular" rebellion you claim.  I can't think of a more secular existing regime in the ME, outside of non-factor Jordan, at this point.  Claiming the rebellion was secular is laughably false to the to you lose any credibility.  Oama was backing Islamic groups far prior to any false "secular" movement, you lying POS.
 
What's your endgame?  You're bashing Bush and backing terrorist movements at this point of the thread.   If you actually did serve, which I doubt, you're a stain on the AF uniform.

[Carling]

My cousin in the Air Force never did "tours."  They were "deployed."

I'm confused.  He had two deployments to South Korea, and one to Afghanistan.

[mystery-ak]

My cousin in the Air Force never did "tours."  They were "deployed."

I'm confused.  He had two deployments to South Korea, and one to Afghanistan.

Come on Carling...either term is used...stop questioning members military service.