Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision

[Godzilla]

Wars in the Middle East will never eliminate the possibility of being sneak attacked by a small group of extremists.

That reminds me of my second tour in Korea, which started 2 months after 9/11.  The base I was stationed at tightened security, and I happened to be talking with my 1st shirt, who wanted to know what I thought of the new security measures.

I said that any sufficiently motivated and funded terror cell will be able to get a bomb in, no matter what we do. 

Needless to say, the guy flipped out.

I kept pushing to atomize our force concentrations, so any attack would only hurt/kill a small number... instead of their knee-jerk reaction to concentrate our troops into a small location.  Which is a big, fat, juicy target to every terrorist cell.  They only have to be successful once to cripple operations in the situation.

[musiclady]

Invading the Middle East was a mistake. Obama is a scum sucking politician just like the rest of them, but I'm not going to blame him for problems he didn't cause.

Illiterate?

Apparently.  Since you seem to know nothing about the history of the ME other than what you read on leftist blogs.....

btw, I edited my post and removed that before I saw your post.  I wasn't going to say it.  Even though it's true.

You think there is no 'existential' threat from the ME.  You don't know what's going on in Europe, or you are dumb enough to think that what happens in Europe doesn't affect us here in America.  You think the only military solution is invasion.  You think that our invasion of Iraq caused the problems there.

That much ignorance means you don't read a whole lot......

[Right_in_Virginia]

Bush had plans to withdraw, but those plans never included abandoning Iraq to terror.  (That's what the surge was all about, if you have forgotten.  It was to rectify the mistakes made in not having a strategy for the time following the removal of terrorist Saddam.

ML, my question was simple.  Here it is again:  Please point me to the part of the agreement that stated our 2009 and 2011 withdrawals would be contingent upon conditions on the ground.

That's all I want.  There's a really good chance I missed it, so please, send me a link.

Thanks.

[EdinVA]

A small group of extremists cannot kill millions of us and we are actually quite good at detecting the origination of terrorist attacks.  It's a circular argument with you.  You never admit in the right of this country to use force under any circumstances other than invasion.

The extremists are not trying to kill all of us, just make us think they are.
That way they destroy our constitution in the name of "security" and keep us spending money we don't have trying to figure out which of the 11/20/?? million illegals are the terrorists.
Now everyone is a criminal until you prove otherwise.  Just try getting on a plane or get into a federal building.

[bkepley]

A large group of extremists intent on killing millions would be immediately detected and obliterated. When you said "millions" I thought you were talking about the possibility of a nuke being smuggled into the U.S. Only a small group would be capable of staying under the radar long enough to make their move.

You always try to wiggle out of it.  Just respond to a hypothetical:  The US has suffered a dirty bomb incident which has caused thousands of immediate deaths, thousands more predicted and a whole downtown area of a major US city to be uninhabitable.  Through national technical means we have determined to basically 100% confidence including sigint that the government of Iran sponsored this attack.  What would you do?

[Dexter]

Apparently.  Since you seem to know nothing about the history of the ME other than what you read on leftist blogs.....

btw, I edited my post and removed that before I saw your post.  I wasn't going to say it.  Even though it's true.

You think there is no 'existential' threat from the ME.  You don't know what's going on in Europe, or you are dumb enough to think that what happens in Europe doesn't affect us here in America.  You think the only military solution is invasion.  You think that our invasion of Iraq caused the problems there.

That much ignorance means you don't read a whole lot......

Is the fact that you think I'm ignorant supposed to be a shocking revelation? We obviously have irreconcilable disagreements when it comes to the Middle East. Despite that fact I have never once questioned your intelligence or your patriotism.

[Dexter]

You always try to wiggle out of it.  Just respond to a hypothetical:  The US has suffered a dirty bomb incident which has caused thousands of immediate deaths, thousands more predicted and a whole downtown area of a major US city to be uninhabitable.  Through national technical means we have determined to basically 100% confidence including sigint that the government of Iran sponsored this attack.  What would you do?

I'd send a few drones to assassinate the Iranians responsible instead of invading and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the process. 

[bkepley]

I'd send a few drones to assassinate the Iranians responsible instead of invading and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the process.

Ok that's a rational response and I like it.  You should take more care in your ad hominems.  The US is not a "war mongering" country.  It makes mistakes but for honourable reasons.

[Right_in_Virginia]

.
Wrong.

I've already posted how Iraq wanted troops.  It was a precarious position for Maliki, but it was Obama who pulled out of negotiations and made the decision to withdraw.

Blaming Bush for Obama withdrawing troops is a leftist talking point to defend Obama, and simply is untrue.  It's sad to see so many posters here accept this lie as truth. 

Iraqi troops may have wanted Americans to take the lead, but Maliki wanted us out.   Refresh my memory:  why did Obama pull out of negotiations?

Regardless of who owns ultimate responsibility for the withdrawal, the big mistake was going in.  It was a mission undefined because it was an unnecessary mission.  And today we pay the price with ISIS.   

[Right_in_Virginia]

We can know with certainty that a Bush-Cheney administration would not have left Iraq in the hands of a caliphate.

How??

[Carling]

Iraqi troops may have wanted Americans to take the lead, but Maliki wanted us out.   Refresh my memory:  why did Obama pull out of negotiations?

Regardless of who owns ultimate responsibility for the withdrawal, the big mistake was going in.  It was a mission undefined because it was an unnecessary mission.  And today we pay the price with ISIS.

You blame Bush and you blame Israel.  I already know this after reading your drivel for years.

[Dexter]

Iraqi troops may have wanted Americans to take the lead, but Maliki wanted us out.   Refresh my memory:  why did Obama pull out of negotiations?

Regardless of who owns ultimate responsibility for the withdrawal, the big mistake was going in.  It was a mission undefined because it was an unnecessary mission.  And today we pay the price with ISIS.

 

[bkepley]

Sometimes I exaggerate to make a point. I believe the military-industrial complex and other war profiteers are warmongers. When we are at war they make lots of money, so it's in their best interests for us to constantly be at war. I believe those people work with the government and the media to scare people into believing there is an existential threat waiting to kill us when really there isn't. I believe good people like Musiclady are being suckered into believing we need to fight a never ending war in the Middle East.

You see I don't believe the US government and media are doing these evil things.  They are humans too.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Bullsh*t!

Obama would have targeted Saddam instead of Assad...after he was through destroying stability in Libya. 

He's in bed with the Iranians.  ....well, he's working the camera while Valerie Jarrett is on her knees servicing the Ayatollahs.

Obama hasn't targeted Assad.  If he had, our troops would be all over Syria.  Obama talks a good game about unseating Assad while bombing Assad's opposition, commonly known as ISIS--who, by the way, are also Iran's enemy.

Russia is building a military air base in Syria to fight ISIS.  Just another offshoot of the rise of ISIS:  the strengthening of the Russian, Iranian and Syrian alliance.

Miss Saddam yet?

[Dexter]

They are humans too.

There are no limits to what humans will do to satisfy their greed.

[bkepley]

There are no limits to what humans will do to satisfy their greed.

So does that go for you too or only "them"?

[Dexter]

So does that go for you too or only "them"?

Were I in their position I can't say for certain that I would act differently. I'm only human after all. I'd like to believe I'd act differently, and I do believe some people are worse than others.

[Right_in_Virginia]

You blame Bush and you blame Israel.  I already know this after reading your drivel for years.

The Bush administration made a serious miscalculation and went to war without a clear mission or clear explanation of what American interests were threatened.  As I said before, I preferred at the time that we focus all our military assets on Afghanistan and AQ. 

I don't know what this has to do with Israel, but if you do, please enlighten me.

Oh, and thanks for reading my drivel for years.  Good to know.   ^-^

[bkepley]

Were I in their position I can't say for certain that I would act differently. I'm only human after all. I'd like to believe I'd act differently, and I do believe some people are worse than others.

Well I'm pretty sure I am nothing special and I am certain that I have always done my best to be honest.  I suspect the majority of Americans are the same.  Doesn't mean they can't be wrong or make mistakes.  Most of those folks you accuse of evil are just like you and me.  Even the bigwigs.  That's how I see it.

[musiclady]

Is the fact that you think I'm ignorant supposed to be a shocking revelation? We obviously have irreconcilable disagreements when it comes to the Middle East. Despite that fact I have never once questioned your intelligence or your patriotism.

Who's questioning your intelligence?

Certainly not I.

Some of the most ignorant people in this country are also very intelligent.  All you have to do is visit a college campus faculty lounge and you'll find the biggest group of ignorant people you'd ever dream of finding any where.

And they all view the ME........  Just.  Like.  You.

As for your patriotism, I think it's a bit misguided and selfish, but I don't doubt you think your views are patriotic.

You just can't see beyond the end of your nose, nor do you know your history enough to realize that America can't exist in your imaginary vacuum.  If Europe collapses under the weight of ME insanity, you imagine that it won't affect us here.

It's naïve.

[musiclady]

How??

Read.  Listen.  Learn.

[Dexter]

Well I'm pretty sure I am nothing special and I am certain that I have always done my best to be honest.  I suspect the majority of Americans are the same.  Doesn't mean they can't be wrong or make mistakes.  Most of those folks you accuse of evil are just like you and me.  Even the bigwigs.  That's how I see it.

The difference is they are in a position to fall prey to that temptation and we are not.

[musiclady]

The Bush administration made a serious miscalculation and went to war without a clear mission or clear explanation of what American interests were threatened.  As I said before, I preferred at the time that we focus all our military assets on Afghanistan and AQ. 

I don't know what this has to do with Israel, but if you do, please enlighten me.

Oh, and thanks for reading my drivel for years.  Good to know.   ^-^

The mission going into Iraq was crystal clear.  And it WAS accomplished.

The problem was the lack of foresight to know what would happen after Saddam was deposed.  And that was corrected by the surge.

(btw, your anti-Israel stance is significant here.  If you hate Israel, you don't understand why getting rid of Saddam was critical.  You do, so you don't).

[Dexter]

Who's questioning your intelligence?

If you actually think that the problems in the ME and ISIS started with Bush in 2003 you are the stupidest person on the face of the earth.

[bkepley]

The difference is they are in a position to fall prey to that temptation and we are not.

If you were in that position do you think there is a chance you would do an evil thing then to advance yourself or keep from getting fired or for any other reason?