Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision

[musiclady]

Unlike you I have evidence that backs up my claim. Bush was interested in pulling out of Iraq. That is evidenced by the agreement he made. I guess we'll never know for sure because he wasn't in office in 2011, but I believe he would have done the same thing Obama did.

Pulling out of Iraq with military support remaining in the country.

Your 'belief' is based on ignorance.  We can know with certainty that a Bush-Cheney administration would not have left Iraq in the hands of a caliphate.

It's a liberal talking point that you're spewing here.

[Godzilla]

Obama went against the advice of the Pentagon and ended negotiations.

Biden was willing to bet his office on Maliki extending SOFA, which would have meant troops stay and there is no power vacuum.

Where am I wrong, and if Obama was merely following Bush's wishes, why did Barry take credit for it, troll?

You knoa that Biden and Maliki are different people, right? Biden made a judgement call and was wrong.

Are you really surprised that Biden can make a mistake?  It's friggin' BIDEN!

[Carling]

I'm active-duty Air Force and have been in 19 years.  I've been deployed and had 6 tours in South Korea.  SOFAs are a BIG DEAL for the troops, as if something wrong happens (car accident, angry locals), you don't want the local police arresting you.

So, liberal talking point, my @ss!

Why don't you get over there and do something.

I've proven to you that the U.S. felt Maliki would sign the SOFA.

Thank you for your service.  What does that have to do with you being wrong on this matter?

[Carling]

You knoa that Biden and Maliki are different people, right? Biden made a judgement call and was wrong.

Are you really surprised that Biden can make a mistake?  It's friggin' BIDEN!

Maliki didn't end the negotiations, Obama did.  .  I have the word of the VP, or I have an anonymous poster who feels the need to brag about his military service, as if that means he can't be wrong.

[bkepley]

Probably because he's a politician and at the time he thought it would make him look good.

I'm confused.  You say Bush would have abandoned Iraq.  Let's stipulate that Bush was wrong to go in there in the first place.  Was he wrong to abandon Iraq?

[Godzilla]

I've proven to you that the U.S. felt Maliki would sign the SOFA.

Thank you for your service.  What does that have to do with you being wrong on this matter?

You've only proven that BIDEN felt Maliki would sign.  BIDEN!

He's not exactly the best judge of people.

[Dexter]

You've only proven that BIDEN felt Maliki would sign.  BIDEN!

He's not exactly the best judge of people.

I think Carling is a liberal.  ^-^

[Bigun]

Never have I seen so much time wasted arguing with self proven idiots.

[Dexter]

Was he wrong to abandon Iraq?

You might judge my character for my opinion regarding this, but so be it. No, in my opinion he wasn't, because no matter how you slice it we the United States are better off not being in the Middle East. We save money and we save the lives of our young patriots. I really don't give a damn if the Middle East descends into chaos and they all kill each other. We need to worry about what is best for us.

[musiclady]

Maliki didn't end the negotiations, Obama did.  .  I have the word of the VP, or I have an anonymous poster who feels the need to brag about his military service, as if that means he can't be wrong.

You're arguing with TWO of those, Carling......

But you're right.  It WAS Obama who pulled the troops out of Iraq, and no one in his or her right mind thinks this disaster would have happened if Bush-Cheney were still in office in 2011.

[Godzilla]

Maliki didn't end the negotiations, Obama did.  .  I have the word of the VP, or I have an anonymous poster who feels the need to brag about his military service, as if that means he can't be wrong.

I'm not arguing about who broke off negotiations.  I'm saying Maliki didn't want US troops to remain in Iraq and only had officials negotiating to placate the Iraqi military.

And after his officials stalled enough, we called him on it... by ending the negotiations.

The Iraqi military was desperate for us to stay, and begged Maliki to call for us to come back.  Maliki did not.

Which told me that Maliki was never serious about a SOFA at all.  He wanted us out at the behest of his backers, the Basra brigades (and their backer, Iran).

---

And I put in the military service to show that topics like SOFAs are something I pay attention to FAR more than just the average poster.  For that is a topic that can see both myself and my Airmen dead or in the local jail.

Do you have the same level of interest?  Will not paying close attention leave you with the possibility of facing years in an Iraqi jail?

[musiclady]

You might judge my character for my opinion regarding this, but so be it. No, in my opinion he wasn't, because no matter how you slice it we the United States are better off not being in the Middle East. We save money and we save the lives of our young patriots. I really don't give a damn if the Middle East descends into chaos and they all kill each other. We need to worry about what is best for us.

So what's happening in Europe is A-OK with you??

What's a liberal like you doing not caring about anyone but yourself??

(Or don't you even know what's happening in Europe because of the chaos in the ME?)

[bkepley]

You might judge my character for my opinion regarding this, but so be it. No, in my opinion he wasn't, because no matter how you slice it we the United States are better off not being in the Middle East. We save money and we save the lives of our young patriots. I really don't give a damn if the Middle East descends into chaos and they all kill each other. We need to worry about what is best for us.

I agree with your last two sentences but you have also said we should not respond if attacked and that seems suicidal to me.

[Dexter]

So what's happening in Europe is A-OK with you??

What's happening in Europe is Europe's problem.

What's a liberal like you doing not caring about anyone but yourself??

I care about the best interests of the country I live in.

(Or don't you even know what's happening in Europe because of the chaos in the ME?)

There wouldn't be so much chaos if the Middle East if we hadn't made the stupid decision to get involved in the first place.

[musiclady]

I'm not arguing about who broke off negotiations.  I'm saying Maliki didn't want US troops to remain in Iraq and only had officials negotiating to placate the Iraqi military.

And after his officials stalled enough, we called him on it... by ending the negotiations.

The Iraqi military was desperate for us to stay, and begged Maliki to call for us to come back.  Maliki did not.

Which told me that Maliki was never serious about a SOFA at all.  He wanted us out at the behest of his backers, the Basra brigades (and their backer, Iran).

You're forgetting to factor in that guys like Maliki act differently with different Presidents.

Khadaffi got rid of his nuclear weapons because we invaded Iraq.  US strength means something to world leaders......especially in the ME.

Obama is the weakest of the weakest horses.  Bush was strong, and Maliki knew it.

[Godzilla]

You're forgetting to factor in that guys like Maliki act differently with different Presidents.

Khadaffi got rid of his nuclear weapons because we invaded Iraq.  US strength means something to world leaders......especially in the E.

Obama is the weakest of the weakest horses.  Bush was strong, and Maliki knew it.

Yep.

[DCPatriot]

There wouldn't be so much chaos if the Middle East if we hadn't made the stupid decision to get involved in the first place.

Bullsh*t!

Obama would have targeted Saddam instead of Assad...after he was through destroying stability in Libya. 

He's in bed with the Iranians.

....well, he's working the camera while Valerie Jarrett is on her knees servicing the Ayatollahs. 

[musiclady]

What's happening in Europe is Europe's problem.

I care about the best interests of the country I live in.

There wouldn't be so much chaos if the Middle East if we hadn't made the stupid decision to get involved in the first place.

Thanks for proving that you are completely self-absorbed and naïve about geopolitics.

If you actually think that the problems in the ME and ISIS started with Bush in 2003 you are the stupidest person on the face of the earth.

[Dexter]

I agree with your last two sentences but you have also said we should not respond if attacked and that seems suicidal to me.

If there was actually an existential threat I would support obliterating it through any means and to any extent necessary. People that think Islamic extremists are capable of invading the U.S, destroying our military and imposing Sharia law are unbelievably paranoid and completely wrong. They're insects, and by fearing them we are giving them exactly what they wanted. There is also no real way to stop Islamic extremism unless you want to turn the Middle East into a glass crater.

[bkepley]

If there was actually an existential threat I would support obliterating it through any means and to any extend necessary. People that think Islamic extremists are capable of invading the U.S, destroying our military and imposing Sharia law are unbelievably paranoid and completely wrong. They're insects, and by fearing them we are giving them exactly what they wanted. There is also no real way to stop Islamic extremism unless you want to turn the Middle East into a glass crater.

They are not capable of invading but they are capable of killing thousands of us and could easily become capable of killing millions and I hope we would indeed be willing to turn desert into glass and that our will will be enough to dissuade them from ever doing the unthinkable.

[Dexter]

They are not capable of invading but they are capable of killing thousands of us and could easily become capable of killing millions and I hope we would indeed be willing to turn desert into glass and that our will will be enough to dissuade them from ever doing the unthinkable.

Wars in the Middle East will never eliminate the possibility of being sneak attacked by a small group of extremists.

[musiclady]

Bullsh*t!

Obama would have targeted Saddam instead of Assad...after he was through destroying stability in Libya. 

He's in bed with the Iranians.

....well, he's working the camera while Valerie Jarrett is on her knees servicing the Ayatollahs.

Critical points that need to be reiterated.

It is complete ignorance that makes one say that Bush was the cause of the problems in the ME, and even more naïve to think that Obama is some kind of innocent victim of the eeeevil Bush.

[bkepley]

Wars in the Middle East will never eliminate the possibility of being sneak attacked by a small group of extremists.

A small group of extremists cannot kill millions of us and we are actually quite good at detecting the origination of terrorist attacks.  It's a circular argument with you.  You never admit in the right of this country to use force under any circumstances other than invasion.

[Dexter]

Critical points that need to be reiterated.

It is complete ignorance that makes one say that Bush was the cause of the problems in the ME, and even more naïve to think that Obama is some kind of innocent victim of the eeeevil Bush.

Invading the Middle East was a mistake. Obama is a scum sucking politician just like the rest of them, but I'm not going to blame him for problems he didn't cause.

We're dealing with an illiterate ideologue here, DC.

Illiterate?

[Dexter]

A small group of extremists cannot kill millions of us and we are actually quite good at detecting the origination of terrorist attacks.  It's a circular argument with you.  You never admit in the right of this country to use force under any circumstances other than invasion.

A large group of extremists intent on killing millions would be immediately detected and obliterated. When you said "millions" I thought you were talking about the possibility of a nuke being smuggled into the U.S. Only a small group would be capable of staying under the radar long enough to make their move.