Nolte: Trump Calling Chuck Todd a Son of a B*tch Is Good for America

[aligncare]

I suspect candidates for public office in the early years of the republic probably employed ridicule and worse in criticizing their opponents. The words may have changed but politics hasn’t.

[INVAR]

I suspect candidates for public office in the early years of the republic probably employed ridicule and worse in criticizing their opponents. The words may have changed but politics hasn’t.

The Principles have most certainly changed, even if the politics hasn't.

[Concerned]

Ridicule is man's most powerful weapon.

A good tactic is one your people enjoy.

While I agree it would be nice if everyone sat down and had a reasoned, civil debate in good faith we're way past that, because the other side doesn't play that way and hasn't for decades.

Besides, if there is an institution that is undeserving of respect its the mainstream news media.

I recognize that some people fully embrace childish ridicule and name-calling. We see it here on the TBR and from the Oval Office all the time.  I just think that's intellectually lazy (at best). It's easy to simply call people childish names but not so easy to actually craft, with evidence and data, an intelligent rebuttal to what someone else says.  I strive for the later because I consider it adult behavior. I desire my President to act like a mature adult also. Sadly, it seems as though that ship has sailed.

[skeeter]

I recognize that some people fully embrace childish ridicule and name-calling. We see it here on the TBR and from the Oval Office all the time.  I just think that's intellectually lazy (at best). It's easy to simply call people childish names but not so easy to actually craft, with evidence and data, an intelligent rebuttal to what someone else says.  I strive for the later because I consider it adult behavior. I desire my President to act like a mature adult also. Sadly, it seems as though that ship has sailed.

With all due respect more than 'some people embrace' the tactic.

For those who don't there's always public TV.

[Concerned]

With all due respect more than 'some people embrace' the tactic.

For those who don't there's always public TV.

How many more?     I'd also appreciate the source of your info.  Thanks in advance.

[Concerned]

With all due respect more than 'some people embrace' the tactic.

For those who don't there's always public TV.

How many more?     I'd also appreciate the source of your info.  Thanks in advance.

@skeeter

While you’re supporting your argument that somehow more than “some people” approve of Trump’s childish behavior, I’ll gladly provide the logic I used to support my argument that “some people” is accurate:

The president received 46% of the vote in 2016.  His approval ratings from a variety of polls this month are anywhere from 38% to 47%.  From an Economists/YouGov poll of 1,500 U.S. adults surveyed in December, only 26 percent said they thought the president’s Twitter use was appropriate.  Of those surveyed, 59 percent said Trump’s Twitter use was inappropriate and 15 percent were unsure. 

When your voters, your base, those who approve of your performance, and those who approve your use of Twitter are all below 50%, it sure seems to support my assertion that “some people fully embrace childish ridicule and name-calling”.  After all, does it make really sense that more folks would like his childish behavior than who voted for him, or more than those considered his base, or more than who approve of his performance or more than those who approve of his use of Twitter?  I think not; thus, I’ll stand by my statement until I see evidence and data that refutes it. 

Of course, I don’t expect to see any evidence or data that supports that MORE than “some people fully embrace” this behavior.  After all, whatever that number actually is, it reflects “some people” since not all of us embrace it.  Have a good and fact-based day, @skeeter

https://realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html#polls

https://www.metro.us/president-trump/americans-disapprove-trumps-tweets

[Formerly Once-Ler]

@skeeter

While you’re supporting your argument that somehow more than “some people” approve of Trump’s childish behavior, I’ll gladly provide the logic I used to support my argument that “some people” is accurate:

The president received 46% of the vote in 2016.  His approval ratings from a variety of polls this month are anywhere from 38% to 47%.  From an Economists/YouGov poll of 1,500 U.S. adults surveyed in December, only 26 percent said they thought the president’s Twitter use was appropriate.  Of those surveyed, 59 percent said Trump’s Twitter use was inappropriate and 15 percent were unsure. 

When your voters, your base, those who approve of your performance, and those who approve your use of Twitter are all below 50%, it sure seems to support my assertion that “some people fully embrace childish ridicule and name-calling”.  After all, does it make really sense that more folks would like his childish behavior than who voted for him, or more than those considered his base, or more than who approve of his performance or more than those who approve of his use of Twitter?  I think not; thus, I’ll stand by my statement until I see evidence and data that refutes it. 

Of course, I don’t expect to see any evidence or data that supports that MORE than “some people fully embrace” this behavior.  After all, whatever that number actually is, it reflects “some people” since not all of us embrace it.  Have a good and fact-based day, @skeeter

https://realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html#polls

https://www.metro.us/president-trump/americans-disapprove-trumps-tweets

solid argument

[skeeter]

@skeeter

While you’re supporting your argument that somehow more than “some people” approve of Trump’s childish behavior, I’ll gladly provide the logic I used to support my argument that “some people” is accurate:

The president received 46% of the vote in 2016.  His approval ratings from a variety of polls this month are anywhere from 38% to 47%.  From an Economists/YouGov poll of 1,500 U.S. adults surveyed in December, only 26 percent said they thought the president’s Twitter use was appropriate.  Of those surveyed, 59 percent said Trump’s Twitter use was inappropriate and 15 percent were unsure. 

When your voters, your base, those who approve of your performance, and those who approve your use of Twitter are all below 50%, it sure seems to support my assertion that “some people fully embrace childish ridicule and name-calling”.  After all, does it make really sense that more folks would like his childish behavior than who voted for him, or more than those considered his base, or more than who approve of his performance or more than those who approve of his use of Twitter?  I think not; thus, I’ll stand by my statement until I see evidence and data that refutes it. 

Of course, I don’t expect to see any evidence or data that supports that MORE than “some people fully embrace” this behavior.  After all, whatever that number actually is, it reflects “some people” since not all of us embrace it.  Have a good and fact-based day, @skeeter

https://realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html#polls

https://www.metro.us/president-trump/americans-disapprove-trumps-tweets

Well, in spite of all your pre-emptive parsing Trump is, in fact, president. 'Nuff said.

Have a good day yourself.

[driftdiver]

solid argument

@Once-Ler

And yet that argument lost the election

Think about that for a minute.   If you want to make changes the first thing you need to do is win the election.

[Emjay]

I recognize that some people fully embrace childish ridicule and name-calling. We see it here on the TBR and from the Oval Office all the time.  I just think that's intellectually lazy (at best). It's easy to simply call people childish names but not so easy to actually craft, with evidence and data, an intelligent rebuttal to what someone else says.  I strive for the later because I consider it adult behavior. I desire my President to act like a mature adult also. Sadly, it seems as though that ship has sailed.

@Concerned

Wow!  Well, Concerned you can't have everything.  For example I wish people on this forum would always discuss matters with evidence, data and intelligent rebuttal.

But, hell, no.  That almost NEVER happens.

I wish Trump was more like Ronald Reagan but he has a very different personality.  It's not one I admire but it is not the only facet of his presidency.

He has done good things and tried to do more.

He is light years better than any democrat.

So concentrating on his 'childish' tweets and occasional insults is really not that helpful.

[anubias]

@Concerned

Wow!  Well, Concerned you can't have everything.  For example I wish people on this forum would always discuss matters with evidence, data and intelligent rebuttal.

But, hell, no.  That almost NEVER happens.

I wish Trump was more like Ronald Reagan but he has a very different personality.  It's not one I admire but it is not the only facet of his presidency.

He has done good things and tried to do more.

He is light years better than any democrat.

So concentrating on his 'childish' tweets and occasional insults is really not that helpful.

It is when one is a Democrat.  It’s all they have.

[Concerned]

Well, in spite of all your pre-emptive parsing Trump is, in fact, president. 'Nuff said.

Have a good day yourself.

Of course he's President.  I certainly have never denied that.  Look, I try and be a fact-based, evidence-based, data-based kind of guy.  If anyone asks me a question or asks me to defend my position, I do my very best to actually answer their question and/or to provide them the facts, evidence, and data on which my posts are based.  To do anything less lacks common courtesy IMO.  I’d hope that others would provide me the same courtesy, but sadly that not always the case.   

Here's some more data I found to support my position.  As shown below from an August poll, 16% of folks like the way the President conducts himself, but 58% don't like it, and 25% have mixed feelings.



Just because you may like Trump's childish behavior doesn't mean large swaths of other people do.  Sure, his base may like it (I think most of them would like anything he does even shooting someone on 5th Avenue), but the data I've seen is that most people just don't like his childishness.  I welcome data that refutes that, but as I said, I don't expect to see it.

[Concerned]

@Concerned

Wow!  Well, Concerned you can't have everything.  For example I wish people on this forum would always discuss matters with evidence, data and intelligent rebuttal.

But, hell, no.  That almost NEVER happens.

I wish Trump was more like Ronald Reagan but he has a very different personality.  It's not one I admire but it is not the only facet of his presidency.

He has done good things and tried to do more.

He is light years better than any democrat.

So concentrating on his 'childish' tweets and occasional insults is really not that helpful.

@Emjay

The fact that I can't get everything I want is obvious.  I learned that by about 6.  I still hate all the childish behavior, be it, the lies/falsehoods/misleading statements, the distractions, the nicknames and name-calling.  All of it.  I think it belittles the Office of the President and reflects poorly on our country. 

When the President implements policy I approve of, I’ll continue to praise him.  When he implements policy I don’t agree with or when acts like an immature child, I’ll continue to criticize him.  I won't be silenced and don't think anyone else should be either.  In fact, I encourage everyone to critique the President (positively and negatively) whether some people believe it to be “helpful” or not.  That’s the beauty of the 1st Amendment – we’re all able to voice our opinions even if some would apparently prefer any dissent be silenced. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

Sure, his base may like it (I think most of them would like anything he does even shooting someone on 5th Avenue), but the data I've seen is that most people just don't like his childishness.  I welcome data that refutes that, but as I said, I don't expect to see it.

Are you saying if the President spoke in soft tones with pastel shadings you would like him @Concerned ?

[Emjay]

It is when one is a Democrat.  It’s all they have.

@anubias

I'm almost beginning to suspect we have a few democrat plants here on TBR.

I know there are some sincere and nice women here who really are offended at Trump's language.  It seems a little odd in today's world where all standards of behavior and language on television have been lifted and I see and hear things I'd rather not see ... just in regular entertainment shows.

So, yeah, it is a different world.  I never heard any sort of bad language in my house growing up.  My Daddy may have used it but never around his wife and children.

But those days are gone... probably forever.

So, when I saw all the horror and repulsion over the relatively mild use of SOB, I was a little suspicious.  Maybe if Trump had called the guy an effing SOB.

I cannot believe that today's adults would be that shocked at Trump calling someone an SOB.
No sincerely shocked.

I just think it is another opportunity for people here who already despise Trump to criticize him.

So, yeah, I am thinking more and more about the democrat plant theory.

I didn't want Trump.  But we have Trump.  We have a Republican President who has done a fairly good job and has tried to do more.

We don't have Hillary which is a little bit of a miracle

But could the NTers here work up as much hate for Hillary as they do for Trump?

I'm wondering.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

@Once-Ler

And yet that argument lost the election

Think about that for a minute.   If you want to make changes the first thing you need to do is win the election.

And if you want to win, all you have to do is change yourself to want what will win.  If you've given a ton of money to rats but you want to win as a republican...start calling for the incarceration of the people you gave a ton of money too. 

If you make money by employing illegals and import your workers from shithole countries, but that sounds bad to your naive GOP voters, start calling foreigners rapists and murderers.

If you have spent your entire life making special deals with lawmakers, Condemn the lawmakers.

All you need to win is sell your soul, winner.

[Concerned]

Are you saying if the President spoke in soft tones with pastel shadings you would like him @Concerned ?

I don't know what speaking in "soft tones with pastel shadings" means.  What I do know is I don't like the petty squabbles.  I don't like the lies/falsehoods/misleading statements/distractions.  I don't like the childish nicknames. According to the poll I posted in Reply #36, only 16% of the people like the way the Trump conducts himself as President.  I believe this is a direct result of many of the behaviors I identified.  I would much prefer it if the President of the United States acted like a mature adult.   Unfortunately, I just don't think he has it in him.

@Right_in_Virginia

[Emjay]

And if you want to win, all you have to do is change yourself to want what will win.  If you've given a ton of money to rats but you want to win as a republican...start calling for the incarceration of the people you gave a ton of money too. 

If you make money by employing illegals and import your workers from shithole countries, but that sounds bad to your naive GOP voters, start calling foreigners rapists and murderers.

If you have spent your entire life making special deals with lawmakers, Condemn the lawmakers.

All you need to win is sell your soul, winner.

@Once-Ler

I'm getting more than a little sick of people like you accusing people like me of 'selling our souls.'

Your self-righteous smugness just reeks of your being a democrat plant or an idiot.  Choose one.

We just had an election which eventually came down to two choices.

People who made the choice to support Trump were not condoning every bad thing Trump had ever said or done in his life.  They were voting for the better choice.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I don't know what speaking in "soft tones with pastel shadings" means. 
@Right_in_Virginia

Of course you do @Concerned   Please retry your answer based on this truth.  I'd like to hear your answer.

[anubias]

I don't know what speaking in "soft tones with pastel shadings" means.  What I do know is I don't like the petty squabbles.  I don't like the lies/falsehoods/misleading statements/distractions.  I don't like the childish nicknames. According to the poll I posted in Reply #36, only 16% of the people like the way the Trump conducts himself as President.  I believe this is a direct result of many of the behaviors I identified.  I would much prefer it if the President of the United States acted like a mature adult.   Unfortunately, I just don't think he has it in him.

@Right_in_Virginia

Your poll is rot.  Nobody with half a brain minds the way Trump comports himself as it works.  The “working man” likes it as he identifies.  It’s called marketing.  Something you demwits are angry that someone has successfully taken away from you.  Get over it.  If you demwits had a platform that Americans wanted, you wouldn’t have to resort to imports.

[skeeter]

Of course he's President.  I certainly have never denied that.  Look, I try and be a fact-based, evidence-based, data-based kind of guy.  If anyone asks me a question or asks me to defend my position, I do my very best to actually answer their question and/or to provide them the facts, evidence, and data on which my posts are based.  To do anything less lacks common courtesy IMO.  I’d hope that others would provide me the same courtesy, but sadly that not always the case.   

Here's some more data I found to support my position.  As shown below from an August poll, 16% of folks like the way the President conducts himself, but 58% don't like it, and 25% have mixed feelings.



Just because you may like Trump's childish behavior doesn't mean large swaths of other people do.  Sure, his base may like it (I think most of them would like anything he does even shooting someone on 5th Avenue), but the data I've seen is that most people just don't like his childishness.  I welcome data that refutes that, but as I said, I don't expect to see it.

You said 'some people' like his childishness.

I said 'its more than some people - he won the white house'. Dunno how much more 'fact based proof' one would need.

Perhaps I shouldn't use the word 'like' - 'accept' might be better.

Your problem isn't with me, its with our society the way it is.

[anubias]

@anubias

I'm almost beginning to suspect we have a few democrat plants here on TBR.

I know there are some sincere and nice women here who really are offended at Trump's language.  It seems a little odd in today's world where all standards of behavior and language on television have been lifted and I see and hear things I'd rather not see ... just in regular entertainment shows.

So, yeah, it is a different world.  I never heard any sort of bad language in my house growing up.  My Daddy may have used it but never around his wife and children.

But those days are gone... probably forever.

So, when I saw all the horror and repulsion over the relatively mild use of SOB, I was a little suspicious.  Maybe if Trump had called the guy an effing SOB.

I cannot believe that today's adults would be that shocked at Trump calling someone an SOB.
No sincerely shocked.

I just think it is another opportunity for people here who already despise Trump to criticize him.

So, yeah, I am thinking more and more about the democrat plant theory.

I didn't want Trump.  But we have Trump.  We have a Republican President who has done a fairly good job and has tried to do more.

We don't have Hillary which is a little bit of a miracle

But could the NTers here work up as much hate for Hillary as they do for Trump?

I'm wondering.

It’s been more than obvious for a while, @Emjay  Some of us have been had.

[Concerned]

Of course you do @Concerned   Please retry your answer based on this truth.  I'd like to hear your answer.

I really have nothing more to add than what I said in Reply #41:

I don't know what speaking in "soft tones with pastel shadings" means.  What I do know is I don't like the petty squabbles.  I don't like the lies/falsehoods/misleading statements/distractions.  I don't like the childish nicknames. According to the poll I posted in Reply #36, only 16% of the people like the way the Trump conducts himself as President.  I believe this is a direct result of many of the behaviors I identified.  I would much prefer it if the President of the United States acted like a mature adult.   Unfortunately, I just don't think he has it in him.

@Right_in_Virginia

I would love it if Trump acted like an adult.  I just don't think he can.  I've agreed with some of his policies (e.g., ISIS, judges, VA reform), and I disagreed with others (e.g., adding trillions to the debt, tariffs), but the one thing I've consistently spoken out against (and will continue to so) is his childish behavior.

[Concerned]

Your poll is rot.  Nobody with half a brain minds the way Trump comports himself as it works.  The “working man” likes it as he identifies.  It’s called marketing.  Something you demwits are angry that someone has successfully taken away from you.  Get over it.  If you demwits had a platform that Americans wanted, you wouldn’t have to resort to imports.

Fair enough.  If you've got quantifiable data to refute all the data I've provided, hopefully you'll post it.  @anubias 

[Right_in_Virginia]

And if you want to win, all you have to do is change yourself to want what will win.  If you've given a ton of money to rats but you want to win as a republican...start calling for the incarceration of the people you gave a ton of money too. 

If you make money by employing illegals and import your workers from shithole countries, but that sounds bad to your naive GOP voters, start calling foreigners rapists and murderers.

If you have spent your entire life making special deals with lawmakers, Condemn the lawmakers.

All you need to win is sell your soul, winner. 

I don't understand why you're getting so angry and bent out of shape over a Republican victory @Once-Ler

Relax, without Donald Trump on the ticket, you'll never have to worry about it again.