Why Grocery Prices Rose — And Why They Didn’t Come Back Down

[roamer_1]

EIGHT WEEKS. Eight weeks for OEM Cummins injector pump parts. That truck, worth easy over 50 bucks an hour, sat still for eight weeks.

That's five hundred bucks a day, for eight weeks, that didn't get made.

And that story is by no means uncommon.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

EIGHT WEEKS. Eight weeks for OEM Cummins injector pump parts. That truck, worth easy over 50 bucks an hour, sat still for eight weeks.

That's five hundred bucks a day, for eight weeks, that didn't get made.

And that story is by no means uncommon.

TBF, it's not all the fault of tariffs, we've had supply chain issues for a while. But I'm sure they don't help.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

What? People actually fix things? 

I really haven't had much trouble, personally. Yeah, it took a few days extra for me to get my new carb for the snowblower; twenty bucks with shipping, direct from China (customs check). A new snowblower would have been nearly (or just into) 4 figures. I'm not sure how much of the $20 was tariff.
As  for automotive parts, I have three vehicles from the same model block, so I bought parts a few years ago, anticipating the need. If I have to, one vehicle can be a donor. That leaves the Dodge ('87) and N.O.S. or salvaged parts for the big stuff.

I get if you are doing a lot of electronics (which I know you do), because not much of that is made here.

I also understand that part of the tariff strategy is to keep the prices higher/stable so they hopefully will be made here, but that problem is every bit as much regulatory, which has contributed to the expense of domestic production, coupled with uncertainty about foreign sources dumping on the US market to kill competition. We will need some stability in our government vis-a-vis environmental regulations or nothing will help.

So, point taken, some parts are more expensive.

My snowblower snapped the auger engagement cable, but I didn't have to wait that long, or pay too much, in fairness.

[roamer_1]

If you look back, paying additional shipping costs and long wait times started during the pandemic though.

Yeah... When Tumpy's first round of tariffs were in place... What a coincidence. 

Trump is trying to equalize the cost of tariffs so that the U.S. doesn't continue to get the short end of the stick.

He's stone-dead wrong.

In the first place, adding another tax revenue stream to an out-of-control, money spending governmental machine is insane. All that money will disappear down the general funds toilet bowl and be gone. And all paid for by the American People.

In the second place, tariffs work to temporarily prop up protection for an ailing onshore industry - See Reagan and Harley - But there AIN'T an onshore industry in this case - It's ALL over there already. So all it can do is act as a surcharge on every single thing you buy. It is a consumption tax.

And lastly, The way forward is to fix the endemic problems within our economy and make us competitive. Make it super-attractive to manufacture over here, and all those jobs will come with it. That's reducing regulation and red tape. That's worrying about supply lines, and smoothing that out. That's addressing the high cost and liability of labor. Those are the things that bring back industry.

Once you have an industry to protect, well then come talk to me about tariffs.

[Luis Gonzalez]

No! I've seen them already. Friedman is correct IF we had all our other ducks in a row but we definitely DO NOT!

Spot on.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

A tariff can affect the price of a domestic good by reducing competitive pricing.   Not that this what is happening now.  Tariffs force foreign producers to become even more competitive while making domestic producers complacent and lazy.  Autos and steel are two examples.

Seems the reverse argument has to be valid if this one is.

The 10% import tariff of American vehicles the EU imposed until recently is an example of European manufacturers becoming complacent and lazy as they were shielded by their import tariffs while taking full advantage of the US's measly 2.5% import fee for European made vehicles.

If the US would have not bitch-slapped the EU by raising our import tariff, they would continue to take full advantage of us.

Very difficult for anyone to defend this tariff raise was not helpful for the US.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Finally crude and gas will start to fall, which I hope will help.

Wages I'm afraid are baked into the cake and that is a major roadblock, as is the constant money printing.

Then there's alot of asymmetric supply side stuff, like supposed pathogens in animal herds forcing them to be culled or not imported, China, govt reindeer games, or take your pick.

None of the solutions are particularly short termed.

'Start to fall'?

Don't know where you live, but I am filling up at the lowest pump prices since Trump's last term. Today ut was $1.97/gal

[Free Vulcan]

'Start to fall'?

Don't know where you live, but I am filling up at the lowest pump prices since Trump's last term. Today ut was $1.97/gal

Consider yourself lucky, it's not fallen that far by a mile.

[Smokin Joe]

WTI Crude:

June 13, 2022: $116.23

Dec 19, 2025: $56.52

We noticed this where I work, because a lot of people are elsewhere. Down from a 2012 high of 228 drilling rigs, we're at 35 in the Williston Basin, now.

Our gas prices came down from a high of $4.24 in May of 2022 to $2.60 now.
Proportionally, that is just a shade smaller percentage drop in retail regular than in crude oil prices with gasoline currently at 61% of 2022 prices.

Not so bad, but the drop in rig count hurts a little, because I work on wellsite while drilling. 

[Smokin Joe]

Not to worry...  I heard an analyst today predicting a slide into the low 40's with a possibility of seeing the teens.

That sounds like as much fun as a house fire. It would set up the next oil boom, maybe even $10/gallon gasoline, but I'm going to be too old by them to make money off it.
Everyone wants something for nothing, but doesn't want the people who put in the 12+ hour days to produce it to get a paycheck. If they knew more than Bloomberg about farming, they might not complain about the cost of food so much, either.

[Luis Gonzalez]

But there AIN'T an onshore industry in this case.

I beg to differ.

The protection here is more macro than an industry. Trump is leveraging the American mammoth consumerist culture into one solidified industry to protect.

It is our market.

We built it.

Access requires a fee.

See Sam's Club

Same thing.

[Atruepatriot]

Been following this for a couple days now and as a lifelong self employed businessman the bigger picture is much simpler for me. We are trying to find that "One" cause for it, when it is actually a whole culmination of influences that accrue to an end result. Beginning with the root that the greed and dishonesty of the Merchants and Money Changers has not changed since Jesus kicked over the tables.

From supply to end user I do not know one businessman who does not take advantage of every angle they can to deceive and inflate, or gouge every penny they can, or put their hand on the scale to cheat on a measure of wheat. Especially the middlemen in the chain of supply. Maybe one out of a thousand actually practice fair and honest business. Is this an argument against Capitalism?

Absolutely not, because what we have now is not competitive free market Capitalism. What we have now is Monopolistic Corporatism and they are not the same at all. Corporatism in no way resembles the Capitalism Conservatives support. I find it interesting that folks complain about prices on the shelf while they cheer their favorite Mega Corporation Stocks going up because of it. Which is it? You can't have both...

[bigheadfred]

Been following this for a couple days now and as a lifelong self employed businessman the bigger picture is much simpler for me. We are trying to find that "One" cause for it, when it is actually a whole culmination of influences that accrue to an end result. Beginning with the root that the greed and dishonesty of the Merchants and Money Changers has not changed since Jesus kicked over the tables.

From supply to end user I do not know one businessman who does not take advantage of every angle they can to deceive and inflate, or gouge every penny they can, or put their hand on the scale to cheat on a measure of wheat. Especially the middlemen in the chain of supply. Maybe one out of a thousand actually practice fair and honest business. Is this an argument against Capitalism?

Absolutely not, because what we have now is not competitive free market Capitalism. What we have now is Monopolistic Corporatism and they are not the same at all. Corporatism in no way resembles the Capitalism Conservatives support. I find it interesting that folks complain about prices on the shelf while they cheer their favorite Mega Corporation Stocks going up because of it. Which is it? You can't have both...

 

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Consider yourself lucky, it's not fallen that far by a mile.

Not 'lucky'.

I live in the state of Texas where resources are plentiful and leftists are small minority in the big cities.

We voted that way and take advantage of our bounty.

Unlike the state of New York or California which have tremendous resources but stifle or outright ban oil/gas development or shut down efficient nuclear reactors or blow up cheap, pollution-free hydroelectric power generation, all making citizens have to pony up extraordinarily.

And they voted that way.

America will be ok as long as states keep the freedoms promised under the Constitution for a Republic so states can go the way they please.  If some states wish to plague their own citizens with high taxes or limited access to cheap gasoline, it is their privilege and their citizens have the right to leave for other states which will respect their residents.

[Bigun]

Been following this for a couple days now and as a lifelong self employed businessman the bigger picture is much simpler for me. We are trying to find that "One" cause for it, when it is actually a whole culmination of influences that accrue to an end result. Beginning with the root that the greed and dishonesty of the Merchants and Money Changers has not changed since Jesus kicked over the tables.

From supply to end user I do not know one businessman who does not take advantage of every angle they can to deceive and inflate, or gouge every penny they can, or put their hand on the scale to cheat on a measure of wheat. Especially the middlemen in the chain of supply. Maybe one out of a thousand actually practice fair and honest business. Is this an argument against Capitalism?

Absolutely not, because what we have now is not competitive free market Capitalism. What we have now is Monopolistic Corporatism and they are not the same at all. Corporatism in no way resembles the Capitalism Conservatives support. I find it interesting that folks complain about prices on the shelf while they cheer their favorite Mega Corporation Stocks going up because of it. Which is it? You can't have both...

and    100% correct and it's not a new thing either.

[Luis Gonzalez]

We are trying to find that "One" cause for it.

That is the exact opposite of why I’ve been trying to do with this series. If that’s what you got out of it, then I totally missed the mark making it clear.

The “affordability crisis” that Democrats appear to be poised to continue using as a hammer against MAGA came about from a decision by the government to use inflation as a tool. That decision was made long ago.

There are people, in this forum, trying desperately to assign fault for the current price crunch that we are experiencing to tariffs and other actions by the Trump admin. They are carrying water for the left. The money printing binges by Congress under Democrat control, was a resetting of the baseline American economy, by purposefully devaluating the currency and inflating prices.

[Bigun]

That is the exact opposite of why I’ve been trying to do with this series. If that’s what you got out of it, then I totally missed the mark making it clear.

The “affordability crisis” that Democrats appear to be poised to continue using as a hammer against MAGA came about from a decision by the government to use inflation as a tool. That decision was made long ago.

There are people, in this forum, trying desperately to assign fault for the current price crunch that we are experiencing to tariffs and other actions by the Trump admin. They are carrying water for the left. The money printing binges by Congress under Democrat control, was a resetting of the baseline American economy, by purposefully devaluating the currency and inflating prices.

That's right! But there is but "one cause" and that is the accumulation of government actions over a longer than many realize period of time.

[Atruepatriot]

That is the exact opposite of why I’ve been trying to do with this series. If that’s what you got out of it, then I totally missed the mark making it clear.

The “affordability crisis” that Democrats appear to be poised to continue using as a hammer against MAGA came about from a decision by the government to use inflation as a tool. That decision was made long ago.

There are people, in this forum, trying desperately to assign fault for the current price crunch that we are experiencing to tariffs and other actions by the Trump admin. They are carrying water for the left. The money printing binges by Congress under Democrat control, was a resetting of the baseline American economy, by purposefully devaluating the currency and inflating prices.

And you are NOT wrong either... But notice you also put blame on just the printing and inflation? That is my point, we all have an idea it is caused by ONE main influence. When it is actually a whole bunch coming together into the perfect storm. Of course printing money devaluing the dollar, Interest rates, Covid, Shortages during Covid, Shortages of Shipping Containers (which was a manufactured lie). Costs for fuel, which actually never did go up that much.

And right now Democrat owned Mega Corporations are purposely price Gouging and Price Fixing to make sure they destroy Trump's economy. Tariffs cannot be blamed as that ONE influence either. But at the same time the AMOUNT of the percentages can be included as an influence for sure. But the main one is pure greed, middlemen jumping on the Bandwagon to universally force a very high markup over cost even though costs have gone down.

Here is just one example of this greed. Just the other day I was talking to the owner of a local C-Store where my Daughter lives. I asked him why he was still charging $2.50 for a bag of Ice instead of the $1 they used too. His immediate blame was "Tarriffs" as the go to narrative excuse. BS alarm right away...

I asked... Don't you have your own Ice Machine and bag your own? "Yes"

Did the price up water go up? "No"

Did the price of bags go up? "Barely"

Did the price of Electricity go up? "Not Much"

Are you paying your employees more? "No"

Then why the 150% Markup? You can't even claim a rise in your own costs let alone try to blame it on Tariffs...

But this is how they do it. If the cost of one item goes up 50% because of Tariffs, they just raise the cost of everything they have in stock 50% across the board even though their cost for the other items were not affected and blame them ALL on Tariffs. Just like that bag of Ice. And then other vendors see those prices and jump on the bandwagon and bring their margins up also. "If they can get away with those prices and people are stupid enough to pay it then we can too". 

And here we are... even though it might not actually be the Tariffs, it is the whole "concept and idea" of the Tariffs that is being exploited universally.

[Luis Gonzalez]

And you are NOT wrong either... But notice you also put blame on just the printing and inflation?

Democrats are trying to pin the issue of affordability on President Trump. That’s what I’ve been trying to debunk.

[Atruepatriot]

Democrats are trying to pin the issue of affordability on President Trump. That’s what I’ve been trying to debunk.

Absolutely, I agree. They are going to do everything they can to make him look bad and throw road blocks in the way. But like I say, that is only half the problem.

[roamer_1]

I beg to differ.

The protection here is more macro than an industry. Trump is leveraging the American mammoth consumerist culture into one solidified industry to protect.

It is our market.

We built it.

Access requires a fee.

See Sam's Club

Same thing.

No it's not. It's more like American Auto - The Big Three - That tried like hell to stop the Japanese tsunami heading for our markets.  They tried to protect their fat asses and their fat union agreements and their stupifyingly bad manufacturing practices.

You know what happened? THEY LOST.

Sure it's our market - If we can keep it.
You don't do that with tariffs and protectionism.
We already know that will destroy the market.
You do that by competing, and competing successfully.

[bigheadfred]

No it's not. It's more like American Auto - The Big Three - That tried like hell to stop the Japanese tsunami heading for our markets.  They tried to protect their fat asses and their fat union agreements and their stupifyingly bad manufacturing practices.

You know what happened? THEY LOST.

Sure it's our market - If we can keep it.
You don't do that with tariffs and protectionism.
We already know that will destroy the market.
You do that by competing, and competing successfully.

How do you compete successfully when the deck is stacked against you?

[roamer_1]

From supply to end user I do not know one businessman who does not take advantage of every angle they can to deceive and inflate, or gouge every penny they can, or put their hand on the scale to cheat on a measure of wheat. Especially the middlemen in the chain of supply. Maybe one out of a thousand actually practice fair and honest business. Is this an argument against Capitalism?

Personally, I have taken great pleasure in wrecking people like that, all my life.

I do business with people that keep their word - Sure all the paper comes later - but the deal is made with a steady eye and an handshake. Anyone who cannot stay true to that is fodder for my cannons. I will eat them. Not with lawyers. With business.


The people I DO business with, I DID business with for years and years. With the same set of subcontractors, and the same set of suppliers. To the point that the folks I knew started to retire.

So don't tell me good business folks ain't out there. That ain't true.
If you can't do business by word with someone, walk away. Simple as that. Over the course of a few years flying right, you'll run into the right people that fly right too, and those are the people that can compound your profits, with less risk, and more confidence.

And always leave some on the table for the next guy.

 

[roamer_1]

How do you compete successfully when the deck is stacked against you?

Easy. You call for a new deck.

[Atruepatriot]

Personally, I have taken great pleasure in wrecking people like that, all my life.

I do business with people that keep their word - Sure all the paper comes later - but the deal is made with a steady eye and an handshake. Anyone who cannot stay true to that is fodder for my cannons. I will eat them. Not with lawyers. With business.


The people I DO business with, I DID business with for years and years. With the same set of subcontractors, and the same set of suppliers. To the point that the folks I knew started to retire.

So don't tell me good business folks ain't out there. That ain't true.
If you can't do business by word with someone, walk away. Simple as that. Over the course of a few years flying right, you'll run into the right people that fly right too, and those are the people that can compound your profits, with less risk, and more confidence.

And always leave some on the table for the next guy.

 

I'm not saying they are not out there, they are just rare and far and few between anymore. I am one of those fair and honest businessmen myself. And because of that I was able to keep my business alive through Carter, Clinton, and Obama while everyone else folded around me.  They just would not give up that 50% to 100% markup when I was happily still moving a lot of product and service at only a 30% to 35% markup. Cash Flow is King. I had to tighten my personal belt and adapt, but I stayed afloat while they crashed because of their own refusal to tighten their own belts and compromise on personal lifestyle even temporarily.

[bigheadfred]

Easy. You call for a new deck.

Tariffs. Short term.

[roamer_1]

I'm not saying they are not out there, they are just rare and far and few between anymore. I am one of those fair and honest businessmen myself. And because of that I was able to keep my bushiness alive through Carter, Clinton, and Obama while everyone else folded around me.  They just would not give up that 50% to 100% mark up when I was happily still moving a lot of product and service at only a 30% to 35% markup. Cash Flow is King. I had to tighten my personal belt and adapt, but I stayed afloat while they crashed because of their own refusal to tighten their own belts and compromise on personal lifestyle even temporarily.

Me too... 

Not as pretty as you - I crashed to the ground three times in my life, starting over from scratch... But I did it. And for the most part. I did it right. I know how to play dirty if I have to take the gloves off, but it has never been my preference.

Kudos. 

[DB]

Personally, I have taken great pleasure in wrecking people like that, all my life.

I do business with people that keep their word - Sure all the paper comes later - but the deal is made with a steady eye and an handshake. Anyone who cannot stay true to that is fodder for my cannons. I will eat them. Not with lawyers. With business.


The people I DO business with, I DID business with for years and years. With the same set of subcontractors, and the same set of suppliers. To the point that the folks I knew started to retire.

So don't tell me good business folks ain't out there. That ain't true.
If you can't do business by word with someone, walk away. Simple as that. Over the course of a few years flying right, you'll run into the right people that fly right too, and those are the people that can compound your profits, with less risk, and more confidence.

And always leave some on the table for the next guy.

I too take issue with that quote. I operate a business and do not misrepresent our product, cheat our customers or abuse our employees. We also pay our bills quickly and don't do the slow roll with our venders. I do not fudge our/my taxes which are extreme. I try hard to keep everything above board. The closest I came to "cheating" on my taxes was not voluntarily reporting sales taxes on Amazon (and other out of state) purchases when they didn't collect out of state sales taxes - which was some time ago.

[Atruepatriot]

Me too... 

Not as pretty as you - I crashed to the ground three times in my life, starting over from scratch... But I did it. And for the most part. I did it right. I know how to play dirty if I have to take the gloves off, but it has never been my preference.

Kudos. 

Oh it got rough, we were down to eating beans and rice a couple times and just about lost it keeping the business going and employees paid. But we did it. And what was worse is because of the particular business I was in I was lucky to live through those times when I refused to follow suit with the local industry and price fix along with my competitors.

I was in the Auto and Big Rig Towing/Wrecker/Repair business. And if you know anything about that business there is a LOT of cash flow and money that changes hands. Current times just one HazMat Big Rig wreck clean up can be a settlement for a couple hundred thousand dollars depending on how messy it is. But of course like any business that is not all profit. And you might not get another one like it for a month or more.

But that business is dangerous to be in. When you go against the grain and refuse to price fix and collude against the public with others in this industry around you, you may as well have a "hit" put out on you. It becomes a constant barrage of death threats and harassment from your competitors and "their friends" like the local Law Enforcement and local Government Agencies...

Over the years I have had some "interesting experiences" to say in the least.

[Atruepatriot]

I too take issue with that quote. I operate a business and do not misrepresent our product, cheat our customers or abuse our employees. We also pay our bills quickly and don't do the slow roll with our venders. I do not fudge our/my taxes which are extreme. I try hard to keep everything above board. The closest I came to "cheating" on my taxes was not voluntarily reporting sales taxes on Amazon (and other out of state) purchases when they didn't collect out of state sales taxes - which was some time ago.

Well then I commend you, take pride because truly you are one out of a thousand.

[Free Vulcan]

And you are NOT wrong either... But notice you also put blame on just the printing and inflation? That is my point, we all have an idea it is caused by ONE main influence. When it is actually a whole bunch coming together into the perfect storm. Of course printing money devaluing the dollar, Interest rates, Covid, Shortages during Covid, Shortages of Shipping Containers (which was a manufactured lie). Costs for fuel, which actually never did go up that much.

And right now Democrat owned Mega Corporations are purposely price Gouging and Price Fixing to make sure they destroy Trump's economy. Tariffs cannot be blamed as that ONE influence either. But at the same time the AMOUNT of the percentages can be included as an influence for sure. But the main one is pure greed, middlemen jumping on the Bandwagon to universally force a very high markup over cost even though costs have gone down.

Here is just one example of this greed. Just the other day I was talking to the owner of a local C-Store where my Daughter lives. I asked him why he was still charging $2.50 for a bag of Ice instead of the $1 they used too. His immediate blame was "Tarriffs" as the go to narrative excuse. BS alarm right away...

I asked... Don't you have your own Ice Machine and bag your own? "Yes"

Did the price up water go up? "No"

Did the price of bags go up? "Barely"

Did the price of Electricity go up? "Not Much"

Are you paying your employees more? "No"

Then why the 150% Markup? You can't even claim a rise in your own costs let alone try to blame it on Tariffs...

But this is how they do it. If the cost of one item goes up 50% because of Tariffs, they just raise the cost of everything they have in stock 50% across the board even though their cost for the other items were not affected and blame them ALL on Tariffs. Just like that bag of Ice. And then other vendors see those prices and jump on the bandwagon and bring their margins up also. "If they can get away with those prices and people are stupid enough to pay it then we can too". 

And here we are... even though it might not actually be the Tariffs, it is the whole "concept and idea" of the Tariffs that is being exploited universally.

And that's yet another part of the problem - people just won't back down. Americans in hard times used to scrimp and save, too many of the younger generation have fallen to image and status and simply will not slum.

A good example is meat. In past times when beef got too high people switched to pork or chicken, and made it all stretch. Now it's beef hell-be-damned, and whining because it's $10/lb.

In that situation, I'd look for cheaper, buy in bulk, switch to something else, or simply cut back. Too many people won't. They want it and they want it now. Practically everything they do is impulse buying.

So like the ice situation, the vendor has no pressure to do anything different. People are just too busy busy busy and important to worry about such petty things, so he makes a killing.

[Bigun]

Oh it got rough, we were down to eating beans and rice a couple times and just about lost it keeping the business going and employees paid. But we did it. And what was worse is because of the particular business I was in I was lucky to live through those times when I refused to follow suit with the local industry and price fix along with my competitors.

I was in the Auto and Big Rig Towing/Wrecker/Repair business. And if you know anything about that business there is a LOT of cash flow and money that changes hands. Current times just one HazMat Big Rig wreck clean up can be a settlement for a couple hundred thousand dollars depending on how messy it is. But of course like any business that is not all profit. And you might not get another one like it for a month or more.

But that business is dangerous to be in. When you go against the grain and refuse to price fix and collude against the public with others in this industry around you, you may as well have a "hit" put out on you. It becomes a constant barrage of death threats and harassment from your competitors and "their friends" like the local Law Enforcement and local Government Agencies...

Over the years I have had some "interesting experiences" to say in the least.

It's really hard to compete with a bunch of jacklegs who will do anything to make water come out the spout when the handle is turned, general contractors who are perfectly happy with that, and who don't mind one bit putting YOUR name in the street when the problems come rolling in.

If you are a craftsman who takes pride in doing quality work for a fair price those guys will soon drive you right out of business.

[Atruepatriot]

And that's yet another part of the problem - people just won't back down. Americans in hard times used to scrimp and save, too many of the younger generation have fallen to image and status and simply will not slum.

A good example is meat. In past times when beef got too high people switched to pork or chicken, and made it all stretch. Now it's beef hell-be-damned, and whining because it's $10/lb.

In that situation, I'd look for cheaper, buy in bulk, switch to something else, or simply cut back. Too many people won't. They want it and they want it now. Practically everything they do is impulse buying.

So like the ice situation, the vendor has no pressure to do anything different. People are just too busy busy busy and important to worry about such petty things, so he makes a killing.

Absolutely... And it is just that simple. If enough people just refused to capitulate and say no the prices WILL come down. But as you say, we have a lifestyle to maintain whether we can actually afford it or not. They will take out a damned loan to buy Beef before they will boycott it. It is stupid... They have been brainwashed since birth into thinking "You Can't Live Without This So Pay Whatever it Costs!".

[Atruepatriot]

It's really hard to compete with a bunch of jacklegs who will do anything to make water come out the spout when the handle is turned, general contractors who are perfectly happy with that, and who don't mind one bit putting YOUR name in the street when the problems come rolling in.

If you are a craftsman who takes pride in doing quality work for a fair price those guys will soon drive you right out of business.

Very well said, but you know what? I outlasted them and survived it. They ended up stepping on their own toes and tripping themselves up. While at times it is trying, honest quality work for a fair price always does prevail in the end if you stick at it.

[Bigun]

Very well said, but you know what? I outlasted them and survived it. They ended up stepping on their own toes and tripping themselves up. While at times it is trying, honest quality work for a fair price always does prevail in the end if you stick at it.

I'm sincerely happy that you were able to do that! I wasn't and ended up back overseas in the oil patch. It all worked out for me, but I know many others who weren't so lucky.

I genuinely admire folks like you and @DB who were able to make it work.

[Atruepatriot]

I'm sincerely happy that you were able to do that! I wasn't and ended up back overseas in the oil patch. It all worked out for me, but I know many others who weren't so lucky.

I genuinely admire folks like you and @DB who were able to make it work.

I think it just boils down to old school "transparency". They don't teach honest business anymore. They teach how to lie and cheat, scam, whatever it takes, the end justifies the means. When I was growing up if a customer had a question about what you were charging them you pulled out your own receipt for what you paid for it cost and then asked them if what you were charging was fair to get it to them here and now. And almost always you just made a customer for life because they DID think it was a fair markup over cost.

Old school is gone now, transparency, quality, customer service, respect, and courtesy.  From back when business was all about quantity and cash flow. And it is stupid because they would rather lose ten customers over pricing just to get that one dumb enough to pay that ridiculous price. Bad business, it just doesn't add up to be a positive. They could have had all eleven of those sales if they just dropped it a few cents or dollars. In the end more is made with less.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

i don't guess you've ever been to Dallas, Houston or Austin?  They certainly aren't conservative...lol.

You misread my post.

The leftists live in the big cities and they comprise a minority of Texas voters across the state, hence we are a conservative state.

[berdie]

I think it just boils down to old school "transparency". They don't teach honest business anymore. They teach how to lie and cheat, scam, whatever it takes, the end justifies the means. When I was growing up if a customer had a question about what you were charging them you pulled out your own receipt for what you paid for it cost and then asked them if what you were charging was fair to get it to them here and now. And almost always you just made a customer for life because they DID think it was a fair markup over cost.

Old school is gone now, transparency, quality, customer service, respect, and courtesy.  From back when business was all about quantity and cash flow. And it is stupid because they would rather lose ten customers over pricing just to get that one dumb enough to pay that ridiculous price. Bad business, it just doesn't add up to be a positive. They could have had all eleven of those sales if they just dropped it a few cents or dollars. In the end more is made with less.

I find that to be true a great deal of the time. As each ethical "line" is moved further out what was not ethical at one time becomes acceptable. The company I worked for had very high standards regarding honesty and fairness. As newer people were employed, they brought the new "normal" with them. When they were shot down it was made very clear they honestly didn't understand and considered us dinosaurs.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Easy. You call for a new deck.

And that is exactly why we do not accept a 10% tariff by the EU on US cars while we were only placing a 2.5% tariff on theirs.

[roamer_1]

Oh it got rough, we were down to eating beans and rice a couple times and just about lost it keeping the business going and employees paid.

Been there myself, many times. It sucks, being the mean, evil businessman, when you know damn well that you took food off your own table to make sure your employees were fed.

But we did it.

That's right. 

I was in the Auto and Big Rig Towing/Wrecker/Repair business.

That's a fun game - the doing of it, I mean. I have been around bone yards all my life, and know my way around a wrecker. Never had the stones for picking up the pieces (and you know what I mean), but the technical aspect of a tough pull has always been a kick for me.

Always wanted in on diesel recovery. Must have watched a thousand of em on youtube. Just never had the fun tickets to get started. I have owned a wrecker or two, but never went that way. I could get inside the closed loop business-wise (as a jobber). I looked at it... HARD... auto repo/recovery... but the money is pretty tight on auto recovery.

Not worth the squeeze for me. But I have a love for them big wreckers, I do. Good on ya. And good post. 

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Tariffs. Short term.

Exactly why Trump chose that route.

It got their attention.

Some posters just believe Trump wants to raise prices of consumer goods but guess what?  A lot of the tariffs are aborbed by the companies and countries exporting the product.

It's also why tariffs are not now nor ever been a tax, as stated by the CBO.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

And that is exactly why we do not accept a 10% tariff by the EU on US cars while we were only placing a 2.5% tariff on theirs.

That would be rational, and absolutely 100% reasonable tariff policy. No dispute there. We should reciprocate everything in trade.

But you can't just look at the trade balance and just assume it's because of unfairness that we have a trade deficit with some nation. We're just better off than a large number of countries.

[Atruepatriot]

I find that to be true a great deal of the time. As each ethical "line" is moved further out what was not ethical at one time becomes acceptable. The company I worked for had very high standards regarding honesty and fairness. As newer people were employed, they brought the new "normal" with them. When they were shot down it was made very clear they honestly didn't understand and considered us dinosaurs.

Yep, I see that too.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Been there myself, many times. It sucks, being the mean, evil businessman, when you know damn well that you took food off your own table to make sure your employees were fed.

That's right. 

That's a fun game - the doing of it, I mean. I have been around bone yards all my life, and know my way around a wrecker. Never had the stones for picking up the pieces (and you know what I mean), but the technical aspect of a tough pull has always been a kick for me.

Always wanted in on diesel recovery. Must have watched a thousand of em on youtube. Just never had the fun tickets to get started. I have owned a wrecker or two, but never went that way. I could get inside the closed loop business-wise (as a jobber). I looked at it... HARD... auto repo/recovery... but the money is pretty tight on auto recovery.

Not worth the squeeze for me. But I have a love for them big wreckers, I do. Good on ya. And good post. 

It's one thing to remember when businesses are laying people off, they have to make payroll, absolutely. Aside from all the legal issues, a company failling to pay it's employees just looks horrible.

[DB]

I think it just boils down to old school "transparency". They don't teach honest business anymore. They teach how to lie and cheat, scam, whatever it takes, the end justifies the means. When I was growing up if a customer had a question about what you were charging them you pulled out your own receipt for what you paid for it cost and then asked them if what you were charging was fair to get it to them here and now. And almost always you just made a customer for life because they DID think it was a fair markup over cost.

Old school is gone now, transparency, quality, customer service, respect, and courtesy.  From back when business was all about quantity and cash flow. And it is stupid because they would rather lose ten customers over pricing just to get that one dumb enough to pay that ridiculous price. Bad business, it just doesn't add up to be a positive. They could have had all eleven of those sales if they just dropped it a few cents or dollars. In the end more is made with less.

I think it has a lot to do with what type of business you are in. I can see where you are coming from in the type of business you describe. I'm in very different type of business selling to other companies and not individuals. There are no cash sales in our business and those sales are all over the planet. So there's no hiding our income. We do have tariff and export issues that we constantly have to deal with. A about 5 years ago we had supply problems that were devastating. We had orders but couldn't manufacture the product without going to shady suppliers while paying multiples of what the parts normally cost - and not knowing if the parts were real or fake before receiving them with cash required up front. Went about 4 months with no income to keep things afloat.

The products we sell we design and manufacture and it has to meet the customer's requirements while being competitive with other communications equipment suppliers or we won't be able to make the sale.

Thankfully, so far, we've survived it all and are doing pretty well.

[Atruepatriot]

Been there myself, many times. It sucks, being the mean, evil businessman, when you know damn well that you took food off your own table to make sure your employees were fed.

That's right. 

That's a fun game - the doing of it, I mean. I have been around bone yards all my life, and know my way around a wrecker. Never had the stones for picking up the pieces (and you know what I mean), but the technical aspect of a tough pull has always been a kick for me.

Always wanted in on diesel recovery. Must have watched a thousand of em on youtube. Just never had the fun tickets to get started. I have owned a wrecker or two, but never went that way. I could get inside the closed loop business-wise (as a jobber). I looked at it... HARD... auto repo/recovery... but the money is pretty tight on auto recovery.

Not worth the squeeze for me. But I have a love for them big wreckers, I do. Good on ya. And good post. 

Yes, the investment for that first "heavy" Wrecker was brutal so I could get in the game. I was trying to turn over and flip every car and truck I could get into the yard as fast as I could get paper on them.  I was fortunate and had an acquaintance who brokered them and he made a deal to carry me on one rather than go through bank financing. But they are like garbage trucks, once you got one you are in business and rolling in cash flow... I was able to pay that truck off clear with just a few truck wrecks.

From there all you have to do is be able to drag that 1 inch wire rope out there by hand... lol

[Free Vulcan]

Another thing that I see is that people just want to go with what I call the Convenience economy. They want what they want, and now, and they just want to walk in, plunk down their money, and go live that run-and-gun ungrounded lifestyle.

Might be fun in your teenage days, but with a spouse raising kids that's not going to cut it unless you're making ridiculous money. What especially most youngins don't understand is that there is also an Undergroud economy that operates on planning, saving, and getting the most bang for the buck.

@roamer_1 have talked about it here a few times. Grow it, raise it, trade for it, buy direct, buy in bulk at the Amish/Mennonite stores, hit the clearance aisle, watch the sales, recycle, repurpose. It's not like it's an ancient skill, it's just fallen out of fashion lately because so many think it's just too inconvenient, and the social media circle does NOT approve.

Thing is, if you're smart with your money, you can nearly live like kings on far less scratch. Especially if you can do/grow/raise, fix or trade it yourself. Especially a lot of Gen Z doesn't like doing that because they're boot kicky, funky fly cool to pay anything less than full retail for the Big Brand item.

And so inflation rages on...

[IsailedawayfromFR]

And that's yet another part of the problem - people just won't back down. Americans in hard times used to scrimp and save, too many of the younger generation have fallen to image and status and simply will not slum.

A good example is meat. In past times when beef got too high people switched to pork or chicken, and made it all stretch. Now it's beef hell-be-damned, and whining because it's $10/lb.

In that situation, I'd look for cheaper, buy in bulk, switch to something else, or simply cut back. Too many people won't. They want it and they want it now. Practically everything they do is impulse buying.

So like the ice situation, the vendor has no pressure to do anything different. People are just too busy busy busy and important to worry about such petty things, so he makes a killing.

That is correct.  Too many people want that BMW and just pay more to get it rather than getting an alternative vehicle.

Now for beef, I happen to be a beef producer, so of course I prefer people not to make that switch

[Free Vulcan]

That is correct.  Too many people want that BMW and just pay more to get it rather than getting an alternative vehicle.

Now for beef, I happen to be a beef producer, so of course I prefer people not to make that switch

Heh heh. As the old saying goes, for everything that happens in the economy there are always winners and losers. 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Another thing that I see is that people just want to go with what I call the Convenience economy. They want what they want, and now, and they just want to walk in, plunk down their money, and go live that run-and-gun ungrounded lifestyle.

Might be fun in your teenage days, but with a spouse raising kids that's not going to cut it unless you're making ridiculous money. What especially most youngins don't understand is that there is also an Undergroud economy that operates on planning, saving, and getting the most bang for the buck.

@roamer_1 have talked about it here a few times. Grow it, raise it, trade for it, buy direct, buy in bulk at the Amish/Mennonite stores, hit the clearance aisle, watch the sales, recycle, repurpose. It's not like it's an ancient skill, it's just fallen out of fashion lately because so many think it's just too inconvenient, and the social media circle does NOT approve.

Thing is, if you're smart with your money, you can nearly live like kings on far less scratch. Especially if you can do/grow/raise, fix or trade it yourself. Especially a lot of Gen Z doesn't like doing that because they're boot kicky, funky fly cool to pay anything less than full retail for the Big Brand item.

And so inflation rages on...

To me this argument is basically the same as liberals saying you should do without for the sake of the economy environment. Sorry about that!