Author Topic: Trump: Prescription Drug and Pharmaceutical prices will be REDUCED, almost immediately, by 30% to 8  (Read 5668 times)

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Online LMAO

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Remember back when they were selling us on Obamacare?  One of the reasons they gave is that it would bring down the price of pharmaceuticals.  Yet it has done the exact opposite.

If the administration wants to bring down prices, their best option is to remove 'government' from the equation.

I remember the ObamaCare  debate very well because many of the same arguments people are making in favor of this were the same type of arguments that Obama care supporters were making


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Offline Hoodat

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I don't know, are there shortages in Europe?

Is the Pope American?  Are European countries firmly entrenched in their healthcare markets?
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Offline roamer_1

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This  pointing-down  is not price control. 

Yes, it is. Fools rush in.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Price controls = shortages. Always.

Unless Trump has something else in mind, his statement was sort of vague.

Offline roamer_1

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It has been eye-opening and very instructive.

A  big part of the rising  healthcare costs is due to government intervention in healthcare

And here we go again.

Offline roamer_1

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In other words, Conservatives were right.

Damn straight.

Offline roamer_1

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Serious question:  When you invited Big Pharma to write the Obamacare bill, what did you expect would happen?  Big Pharma all colluded, came up with a list of drugs that Obamacare would mandate that insurance companies cover, and then jacked up the prices of those drugs.  At the time, Conservatives screamed that this would happen.  Yet 15 years later, Republicans still refuse to overthrow Obamacare.

As for price controls, get ready for shortages. Because that is what price controls create.  It's what Democrats do.

There it is. You get a gold star.

Offline roamer_1

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Government is the problem here.  You want solutions?  Then the first thing you have to do is get government the hell out of the healthcare market.  It is what Conservatives have been telling you for decades.

BOOM, BABY! You're on a roll!  :beer:

Online bigheadfred

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The broad strokes (by the Grok AI)

Reviving the "Most Favored Nation" (MFN) Pricing Model:


Trump aims to tie U.S. drug prices for certain Medicare-covered medications to the lowest prices paid by other wealthy countries. This policy, initially proposed in his first term (2020) but blocked by courts and rescinded by the Biden administration, seeks to address the disparity where Americans pay significantly more for the same drugs. The MFN model would apply to a selection of drugs, potentially including Medicare Part B drugs (administered in clinics or hospitals), though specifics on scope remain unclear. The 2020 version estimated savings of $85 billion over seven years.

Improving the Medicare Drug Price Negotiation Program:

The plan builds on the Medicare Drug Price Negotiation Program established by the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) of 2022. Trump’s executive order from April 15, 2025, directs the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to propose guidance within 60 days to enhance transparency, prioritize high-cost drugs for negotiation, and minimize impacts on pharmaceutical innovation. The goal is to achieve greater savings than the 22% reported in the program’s first year and address issues like inflated premiums and reduced coverage options for seniors under Medicare Part D.

Promoting Competition and Transparency:

The plan emphasizes increasing competition by accelerating the approval of generics, biosimilars, combination products, and second-in-class branded drugs, which can be up to 80% cheaper than brand-name alternatives. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is tasked with issuing a report within 180 days on how to streamline these approvals.

It also targets pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs), requiring improved disclosure of fees to reduce their influence as middlemen, which is seen as inflating costs. This aims to create a more transparent and competitive drug market.

Facilitating Drug Importation:


The executive order instructs HHS to streamline FDA processes for state-sponsored drug importation programs under Section 804 of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, particularly from Canada. This builds on a first-term initiative to allow states to import lower-cost drugs, with Florida being the only state to receive FDA approval so far (though not yet implemented). The goal is to save states millions on prescription drug costs.

Aligning Medicare Payments with Acquisition Costs:

The plan includes a directive for HHS to survey hospital outpatient department acquisition costs for drugs and propose adjustments to Medicare payment rates to align with actual acquisition costs. This addresses a previous issue from Trump’s first term where payment reductions for 340B hospitals were overturned due to procedural errors. For certain drugs, this could lower Medicare payments by up to 35%.

Providing Discounts for Low-Income Patients:

The plan resurrects a first-term program to provide low-cost insulin and epinephrine to low-income patients, including those without insurance. Examples include insulin at 3 cents per vial (plus a small administrative fee) and epinephrine auto-injectors at $15. This aims to deliver immediate relief for life-saving medications.

Standardizing Medicare Payments:

The plan seeks to standardize Medicare payments for certain drugs, such as cancer treatments, regardless of where they are administered (e.g., hospital vs. clinic), potentially reducing prices by up to 60%. This aims to eliminate pricing disparities based on care settings.



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Offline roamer_1

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You would be wrong.

Why is the USA subsidizing drug prices for the world?

BTW, this is not price controls, rather it is the largest buyer of a product seeking the best price. I don't know of any business that doesn't exert leverage based on the volume they purchase. Why should the USA do the opposite.

Bullshit. You can polish the turd any way you like. This is price controls.

And it will bring prices down.. and shortages way up.

Dumb sombiches just keep doing the same damn thing all over again, expecting different results. Those that do not know history are doomed to repeat it!

Offline roamer_1

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Can anyone on this forum come up with a single example in human history where price controls worked?

That will be a RESOUNDING no!

Offline Hoodat

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Now reimportation was an idea Trump should have explored IMO.

Offline catfish1957

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Here we freaking go again.  Seeing some of the same crew a month ago screaming crash, Oh my IRA, and Trump's sinking the economy.....Yep... are weighing in again.  No..... price controls don't work, but this again is the first volley from DJT to adjust an economic glitch.   The sooner you realize that this economic negotiation is part of a bigger plan that often uses bluffs and scare tactics.

After Big Pharma freaks, watch how soon they finally agree that the American taxpayer and consumer must stop subsidizing  Pharma research...which is the brass ring.  Relax people.  Trump is trying to impose free market trade processes to an industry that has skirted the system for decades.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2025, 03:43:41 pm by catfish1957 »
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Offline catfish1957

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Psssstt...  DOW's now up a 100 since liberation day?  Where did all the outrage go?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2025, 03:40:56 pm by catfish1957 »
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Offline bilo

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Yep.



The problem is there is not a free market and hasn't been one in healthcare since medicare & medicaid were created. It's not going to change. Now the buyers with the power to negotiate prices are nations. If this is the world we live in it makes no sense to yell at the clouds. It is much better to use the leverage we have as the largest purchaser to negotiate the best prices possible rather than subsidize a bunch of nations that won't come to our aid in the time of need.
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Online bigheadfred

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Here we freaking go again.  Seeing some of the same crew a month ago screaming crash, Oh my IRA, and Trump's sinking the economy.....Yep... are weighing in again.  No..... price controls don't work, but this again is the first volley from DJT to adjust an economic glitch.   The sooner you realize that this economic negotiation is part of a bigger plan that often uses bluffs and scare tactics.

After Big Pharma freaks, watch how soon they finally agree that the American taxpayer and consumer must stop subsidizing  Pharma research...which is the brass ring.  Relax people.  Trump is trying to impose free market trade processed to an industry that has skirted the system for decades.

 :beer:
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Online berdie

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Big Pharma could increase its bottom line by not advertising incessantly on tv. This seems to be a recent thing. I sure don't remember it in the past...at least not to this degree.

Offline roamer_1

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The problem is there is not a free market and hasn't been one in healthcare since medicare & medicaid were created. It's not going to change. Now the buyers with the power to negotiate prices are nations. If this is the world we live in it makes no sense to yell at the clouds. It is much better to use the leverage we have as the largest purchaser to negotiate the best prices possible rather than subsidize a bunch of nations that won't come to our aid in the time of need.

Right thinking... wrong headed. Your leverage will cause shortage. You are under the mistaken assumption that Big Pharma is dickin you.... Well they ARE dickin you, but they are dickin everybody else too. If you set a condition where they can make more money in Asia or Europe, guess where the product is going to go.

You are right that health is astronomically expensive.
And you are right that something is artificially holding those prices up.

And the obvious need is to knock out the props that are keeping those prices up. We are not 'paying for Europe'. The market bears what it bears. If anything, price fixing in Europe is why they have drastic shortages so often.

Likewise the props of medicare and medicaid - You really can't single that out without looking at the whole insurance model. If you want to knock the stops out, outlaw insurance altogether and watch the prices plummet. Folks will quickly resolve to find other pathways when they have to pay for it themselves. That means the market will glut, and prices will drop. But as long as any insurance is paying for the pharma instead of the end user, the prices will remain high.

The entire medical sector - not just pharma - is stupid out of control - Likely because there is too much demand and regulation and licensing keeps that demand ultra high. You want to drop prices? put an RN in a minivan and let her make house calls. Let her dispense and prescribe under a doctor's tutelage. Watch what would happen to demand.

The whole copyright model. And the regulation against newcomers in manufacturing. The whole sector is regulated to death where a common pair of $15 pliers costs $200 if it has a medical stamp on it. Crazy stupid. because of regulation. and licensing. Get government out of all that.

Likewise, omit intermediate offices and get the whole thing running closer to the bone. My chiro for instance, he has two people working in his office to cover insurance and medicare. That's all those two people do is mess with insurance. One receptionist and two insurance specialists for him and one PT. Do you see thew problem with that?

THAT's how you make it go down.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2025, 05:56:04 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline roamer_1

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Here we freaking go again.  Seeing some of the same crew a month ago screaming crash, Oh my IRA, and Trump's sinking the economy.....Yep... are weighing in again.  No..... price controls don't work, but this again is the first volley from DJT to adjust an economic glitch.   The sooner you realize that this economic negotiation is part of a bigger plan that often uses bluffs and scare tactics.

After Big Pharma freaks, watch how soon they finally agree that the American taxpayer and consumer must stop subsidizing  Pharma research...which is the brass ring.  Relax people.  Trump is trying to impose free market trade processes to an industry that has skirted the system for decades.

So you're subscribing to the 67 level chess defense.

I really cannot wait for these chickens to come home to roost... It will be bad, bad juju, but at least my pal @catfish1957 will be back on the right side of things again.  That day is coming, sho nuff.

Offline Fishrrman

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Jeffrey Tucker has written a very good essay on this:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/opinion/the-case-for-most-favored-nation-drug-pricing-5856311

The Case for Most-Favored Nation Drug Pricing
by Jeffrey A. Tucker
5/12/2025

President Donald Trump has issued an executive order finally doing what should have been done decades ago. Government programs will pay only market prices for drugs and not the 5 and 10 times more that they pay now.

No matter what you hear in the coming days—and the claims will confound all partisan expectations—this is an excellent move.

Days before the EO, the Wall Street Journal’s editorial page ran a startling headline that also turns out to be wildly overwrought: “Trump’s Worst Idea Since Tariffs; The President is pitching a plan to outdo Democrats on drug price controls.”
Price controls would certainly be a terrible idea, if true. This certainly triggers every friend of free markets. Price controls usually lead to shortages followed by rationing. Nothing good, in other words. We don’t want that for meds.

The editorial goes on: “To replace the spending slowdown they won’t get in Medicaid, [Trump] may expand drug price controls. For that trade we could have elected Democrats.”

What’s at issue here is what government programs are willing to pay for pharmaceuticals. As it turns out, U.S. prices are higher by huge amounts, anywhere from two to ten times higher. In seeking to buy low based on international norms, the administration is merely asserting that government and taxpayers exercise consumer sovereignty.

The disparities are shocking. Step one inch outside the U.S. border and you encounter the same drugs, even given adjusted currency valuations, at vastly lower prices.

Taxpayers are footing the bill for the difference. This is straight-up welfare for the most well-heeled corporate conglomerates in the world. That is the current system. It has nothing to do with market pricing.

The Trump administration is proposing that Medicare and Medicaid readjust its price estimations and willingness to pay. The idea is to name certain nations—Canada, UK, Australia, and others—as most favored nations for drug pricing. A formula would be put together that would split the difference in a kind of arbitrage. This could save taxpayers $86 billion and much more over time.

More at the URL above...

Offline Hoodat

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No..... price controls don't work,  .  .  .

Then we are in agreement.
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Offline Hoodat

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Jeffrey Tucker:  President Donald Trump has issued an executive order finally doing what should have been done decades ago. Government programs will pay only market prices for drugs and not the 5 and 10 times more that they pay now.

And that right there is the problem.  Government should never ever ever be in the drug-purchasing business.  Replace government with 350+ million consumers, and let the market dictate the price.

If you want the lowest price, then get government the hell out of the way.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline roamer_1

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The disparities are shocking. Step one inch outside the U.S. border and you encounter the same drugs, even given adjusted currency valuations, at vastly lower prices.

Taxpayers are footing the bill for the difference. This is straight-up welfare for the most well-heeled corporate conglomerates in the world. That is the current system. It has nothing to do with market pricing.


Absolutely bass-ackwards.

Better to ask why you can't choose to buy your pharma from Mexico. Or from Asia. THAT would throw a wrench in local prices.

Offline catfish1957

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Then we are in agreement.


Except the end game is not price fixing.  It is the threat thereof.  I've watched enough DJT Apprentice to know that he has never been a fan of governmental intervention.

He has a plethora of tools, and options in his tool belt.  Patience.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Here we freaking go again.  Seeing some of the same crew a month ago screaming crash, Oh my IRA, and Trump's sinking the economy.....Yep... are weighing in again.

They are a tiresome lot --- hanging on to relevance with bloody fingernails.  **nononono*

Offline Hoodat

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Except the end game is not price fixing.  It is the threat thereof.  I've watched enough DJT Apprentice to know that he has never been a fan of governmental intervention.

He has a plethora of tools, and options in his tool belt.  Patience.

I get that - wait and see.  In the mean time, how do you think Trump will be able to pivot from this to 'getting rid of Obamacare and getting government out of the pharmaceutical business'?
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Offline Hoodat

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They are a tiresome lot --- hanging on to relevance with bloody fingernails.  **nononono*

@Right_in_Virginia

Do you support price controls?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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@Right_in_Virginia

Do you support price controls?

Who cares?

The President is bringing reciprocity and equalization to the global pharmaceutical industry and the US finally gets a fair shake ---

Quote
Therefore, I am pleased to announce that Tomorrow morning, in the White House, at 9:00 A.M., I will be signing one of the most consequential Executive Orders in our Country’s history. Prescription Drug and Pharmaceutical prices will be REDUCED, almost immediately, by 30% to 80%. They will rise throughout the World in order to equalize and, for the first time in many years, bring FAIRNESS TO AMERICA!

I will be instituting a MOST FAVORED NATION’S POLICY whereby the United States will pay the same price as the Nation that pays the lowest price anywhere in the World.  Our Country will finally be treated fairly, and our citizens Healthcare Costs will be reduced by numbers never even thought of before. Additionally, on top of everything else, the United States will save TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

Offline Hoodat

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Who cares?

The President is bringing reciprocity and equalization to the global pharmaceutical industry and the US finally gets a fair shake ---

So basically, you have no principles.  Instead, you think that Obamacare can work as long as the right person is running it.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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So basically, you have no principles.  Instead, you think that Obamacare can work as long as the right person is running it.

pointing-up. Idiotic.

Offline rustynail

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Senate Majority Leader John Thune signals possible opposition to codifying President Trump's executive order into law lowering drug prices to match those from other developed nations.

Offline Hoodat

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pointing-up. Idiotic.

One of the main arguments against Obamacare was that price controls don't work.  The argument for Obamacare was that with government becoming a primary purchaser of pharmaceuticals, that they could negotiate a better price for drugs.

You say you don't care about price controls.  And you support Trump using the power of government to negotiate a better price.  Capisce?
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Online ChemEngrMBA

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It seems to me that there are many "price controls" currently in place.
1.  There is a federal minimum wage.  That is a price control.
2. The federal minimum wage price control is superseded in California by restaurant "price controls" which demand $20 per hour, except for a few cronies of Govenor Gruesome's who own restaurants and are excluded.
3.  Anyone can volunteer their time to non-profits and work for NOTHING but you can't work for a little bit of money if it's less than "minimum wage" price controls.  This makes no sense at all.
4.  Every federal, state, and municipal agency demands that contracts go only to businesses which pay "prevailing wages" paid by unions.  Price fixing big time.  Democrats get billions from all these unions.  And smile.

Before the dust can settle on ANYTHING President Trump does, the Leftists scream bloody murder and fabricate all manner of objections, however farfetched they may be.  Leftist hatred runs deep and evil.


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Offline Sighlass

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And that right there is the problem.  Government should never ever ever be in the drug-purchasing business.  Replace government with 350+ million consumers, and let the market dictate the price.

If you want the lowest price, then get government the hell out of the way.

Agree...
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Offline Hoodat

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It seems to me that there are many "price controls" currently in place.
1.  There is a federal minimum wage.  That is a price control.


No, minimum wage is a price floor above the equilibrium price  - not a price control below it.  Minimum wage creates a surplus of labor, not a shortage.  Unlike a price control, minimum wage does not place an upward limit on the cost of labor.

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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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It seems to me that there are many "price controls" currently in place.
1.  There is a federal minimum wage.  That is a price control.
2. The federal minimum wage price control is superseded in California by restaurant "price controls" which demand $20 per hour, except for a few cronies of Govenor Gruesome's who own restaurants and are excluded.
3.  Anyone can volunteer their time to non-profits and work for NOTHING but you can't work for a little bit of money if it's less than "minimum wage" price controls.  This makes no sense at all.
4.  Every federal, state, and municipal agency demands that contracts go only to businesses which pay "prevailing wages" paid by unions.  Price fixing big time.  Democrats get billions from all these unions.  And smile.

Before the dust can settle on ANYTHING President Trump does, the Leftists scream bloody murder and fabricate all manner of objections, however farfetched they may be.  Leftist hatred runs deep and evil.




Instead of a shortage, minimum wage causes unemployment directly. You are right, but try convincing people of that.

Offline roamer_1

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It seems to me that there are many "price controls" currently in place.
1.  There is a federal minimum wage.  That is a price control.

Which is WRONG, and has long been battled against by Conservatives.

Quote
2. The federal minimum wage price control is superseded in California by restaurant "price controls" which demand $20 per hour, except for a few cronies of Govenor Gruesome's who own restaurants and are excluded.


Which is WRONG, and has long been battled against by Conservatives.

Quote
3.  Anyone can volunteer their time to non-profits and work for NOTHING but you can't work for a little bit of money if it's less than "minimum wage" price controls.  This makes no sense at all.



Which is WRONG, and has long been battled against by Conservatives.

Quote
4.  Every federal, state, and municipal agency demands that contracts go only to businesses which pay "prevailing wages" paid by unions.  Price fixing big time.  Democrats get billions from all these unions.  And smile.


That is not true in 'Right to Work (Conservative)' states

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Before the dust can settle on ANYTHING President Trump does, the Leftists scream bloody murder and fabricate all manner of objections, however farfetched they may be.  Leftist hatred runs deep and evil.[/b][/size]


Which has nothing to do with this and the people here except in its similarities to those very leftists. This big city government is no different than they.Again: vote for big government and you get big government solutions - Which are not solutions, but the very problems we have known all along.


Offline catfish1957

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I get that - wait and see.  In the mean time, how do you think Trump will be able to pivot from this to 'getting rid of Obamacare and getting government out of the pharmaceutical business'?

Really good question around the issue of insidious governmental intervention. 

I am very optimistic of Trump's strategy, but I am still not 100% certain it will pan out exactly like we hope.  And part of the biggest problem is the Fedzilla infested swamp.  You can change rules, regulations, and statutes, but there is zero percent chance you will get. a full blown purge of the guilty. 

Only time will tell, but I am impressed as hell after 3 1/2 months.  If this goes as planned, we will see unprecedented prosperity in 1-2 years.    That alone, makes this worth a shot.
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Offline Free Vulcan

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And it didn’t take long…

If Trump came out and declared that he was going to implement Cuban style healthcare, there would be more than a few here that would support it. I have no doubt.

You can dance and sign around it and wave your jazz hands in the air in circles all you want, but you can't avoid that we pay for the price fixing that other nations' socialized healthcare won't.

It's a tax on Americans and busts the budget with trillions in unnecessary costs. Twisting the facts to fulfill your agenda isn't going to change that.
The Republic is lost.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Here we freaking go again.  Seeing some of the same crew a month ago screaming crash, Oh my IRA, and Trump's sinking the economy.....Yep... are weighing in again.  No..... price controls don't work, but this again is the first volley from DJT to adjust an economic glitch.   The sooner you realize that this economic negotiation is part of a bigger plan that often uses bluffs and scare tactics.

After Big Pharma freaks, watch how soon they finally agree that the American taxpayer and consumer must stop subsidizing  Pharma research...which is the brass ring.  Relax people.  Trump is trying to impose free market trade processes to an industry that has skirted the system for decades.
Oh, come on. It's so much more fun to PANIC and not wait to see how this opening salvo plays out.

One of the first rules of horsetrading is you start low if you're buying, high if you're selling, and then negotiate to the middle. I reckon folks either never knew that or forgot...
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Oh, come on. It's so much more fun to PANIC and not wait to see how this opening salvo plays out.

One of the first rules of horsetrading is you start low if you're buying, high if you're selling, and then negotiate to the middle. I reckon folks either never knew that or forgot...

@Right_in_Virginia  used the perfect word to describe them:  "Tiresome"

And that was being kind.
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Online LMAO

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That doesn't sound very Conservative to me.

 :pondering:

In the age of Trump, many so called conservatives are now advocating for big government solutions to problems caused by that same big government

Before 11 am on Jan 20, 2025, there wouldn’t have been any argument here on the folly of price controls wink777
 
https://www.cato.org/blog/trump-attempts-price-controls-prescription-drugs

Today, President Trump ordered the Department of Health and Human Services to “communicate…price targets to pharmaceutical manufacturers.” Trump does not in any way suggest those price targets would apply only to the prices the government pays for medicines.

If HHS determines that pharmaceutical manufacturers have failed to make “significant progress” (whatever that means) toward those targets, things get ugly. In that event, Trump commands:

HHS shall “to the extent consistent with law…impose most-favored-nation pricing.”
The Department of Justice and the Federal Trade Commission “shall…undertake enforcement action against any anti-competitive practices.”
The Commerce Department and other agencies “shall…consider all necessary action regarding the export of pharmaceutical drugs or precursor material.”
The Food and Drug Administration shall “review and potentially modify or revoke approvals granted for drugs.”
All federal agencies shall “take all action available…to address global freeloading and price discrimination against American patients.”
Trump’s executive order is a laundry list of coercive actions he plans to take against drug companies that do not make “significant progress” toward his “price targets.”

« Last Edit: May 13, 2025, 08:25:43 am by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Online LMAO

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You can dance and sign around it and wave your jazz hands in the air in circles all you want, but you can't avoid that we pay for the price fixing that other nations' socialized healthcare won't.

It's a tax on Americans and busts the budget with trillions in unnecessary costs. Twisting the facts to fulfill your agenda isn't going to change that.

I understand it’s part of our tribal nature that makes it difficult to oppose stupid ideas coming from people we politically support, but if all else was the same, but this was coming from a president Harris versus a president Trump, you would be agreeing with me wink777


And it’s not just this issue. That’s why there’s such hostility here towards people who have not changed their positions just to accommodate the Trump agenda.

I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline roamer_1

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You can dance and sign around it and wave your jazz hands in the air in circles all you want, but you can't avoid that we pay for the price fixing that other nations' socialized healthcare won't.

It's a tax on Americans and busts the budget with trillions in unnecessary costs. Twisting the facts to fulfill your agenda isn't going to change that.

So 'Socialize' ourselves? How the hell does that work?
'Jazz hands', bruh?

Offline Timber Rattler

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And it’s not just this issue. That’s why there’s such hostility here towards people who have not changed their positions just to accommodate the Trump agenda.

 :bingo:  goopo
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Offline roamer_1

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Oh, come on. It's so much more fun to PANIC and not wait to see how this opening salvo plays out.

One of the first rules of horsetrading is you start low if you're buying, high if you're selling, and then negotiate to the middle. I reckon folks either never knew that or forgot...

I ain't panicked. I am pissed. Pissed right off. And rightly so.
To even flirt with price controls from the Right is far beyond the pale. That it is vociferously defended, HERE of all places, is a damn crying shame.
I don't give a sh*t what Tumpy does. I expect the worst. His first term laid that out.
That defense is what pisses me off.

And don't waive it off. According to many here he does what he promises. What makes it convincing is that anyone here can see him signing that EO.

Offline roamer_1

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In the age of Trump, many so called conservatives are now advocating for big government solutions to problems caused by that same big government

Before 11 am on Jan 20, 2025, there wouldn’t have been any argument here on the folly of price controls wink777


*FACTS*

Offline roamer_1

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I understand it’s part of our tribal nature that makes it difficult to oppose stupid ideas coming from people we politically support, but if all else was the same, but this was coming from a president Harris versus a president Trump, you would be agreeing with me wink777


And it’s not just this issue. That’s why there’s such hostility here towards people who have not changed their positions just to accommodate the Trump agenda.

That rings true to me.