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Offline Canuck Conservative

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How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« on: March 10, 2025, 06:35:24 am »
By Adam Zivo
National Post (Mar. 10, 2025)
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/how-putin-hoodwinked-american-conservatives

It’s unfortunate that some populist conservatives in the West have bought into the myth that Russia is a haven for “traditional values.” This fairytale is nothing more than Kremlin-sponsored propaganda, and it bears little resemblance to the realities of Russian society, where divorce, abortion and secularism are widespread...

Russia’s self-anointed status as a defender of global conservatism can be traced back to 2011, when anti-government protests erupted following the country’s rigged parliamentary elections. These disruptions threatened to topple the autocratic rule of Russian President Vladimir Putin, but were eventually suppressed.

Putin’s governance subsequently became more jingoistic and anti-western. By directing the nation’s anger outward and fostering an atmosphere of permanent besiegement, the president was able to effectively draw attention away from his domestic shortcomings and stagnating economy. He fixated on the LGBTQ+ community, associated it with foreign interference, and passed laws curtailing both.

This won Putin crucial political support from the Russian Orthodox Church, imbued his regime with an aura of moral authority and, most importantly, vested the Kremlin with an ideology that could compete with western liberalism...

By the late 2010s, Russia had won over much of Europe’s far right and was flinging its tendrils into the United States. It found fertile soil there, owing largely to the collapse of neoconservativism (which had been discredited by the failed wars in Iraq and Afghanistan) and the Republicans’ inability to define a replacement foreign policy framework.

Ideologically destitute, some Republicans treated foreign policy as an extension of America’s culture wars — they allied with Moscow, a geopolitical rival, simply so they could vanquish woke culture domestically. Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and the election of U.S. President Donald Trump, only accelerated this realignment.

As of now, a considerable number of Republican influencers, particularly those affiliated with Trump, portray Russia and Putin as the defenders of family and God. They are the modern analogue to the socialist traitors who, decades ago, forsook their own countries to pledge allegiance to a Russia that never existed — only this time, it is the clergy, not the proletariat, that are being romanticized. But the useful idiots are being duped, again, because Russia is no more a conservative utopia than the Soviet Union was a socialist one...

Russians also love divorces and abortion. The country’s divorce rate (3.9 per 1,000 people) is among the highest in the world — far higher than the United States (2.7), Canada (1.1) and much of Europe. Similarly, Russia’s abortion rate is higher than many western countries.

What about family values? Domestic violence is an epidemic in Russia, abetted by a 2017 law, which stipulates that, unless hospital treatment is required, such abuse should be considered an administrative, not criminal, offence. First time wife-beaters can get away with paying only a 5,000-rubles (C$80) fine.

Free speech is also non-existent: criticizing the government can easily lead to a long prison sentence or, in some cases, a mysterious death. Whatever faults the West might have with policing speech, Russia’s restrictions are a magnitude worse and crueller.

Why do some conservatives glorify a society so woefully unaligned with their values? Who knows. But their behaviour is nothing new, and it fits within an established tradition of boundless self-delusion...
FreeRussia is controlled by a small group of anti-free-speech Nazis - no wonder its donations are down!!

Offline mountaineer

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2025, 07:11:02 am »
Seems rather a false premise that many U.S. conservatives consider Russia a haven for traditional values in the first place. That possibility occurs to very few of us, I'd wager.

Personally, I'm not much impressed with Putin's "USSR Lite" system, and sincerely doubt he's hoodwinked me.
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Offline Canuck Conservative

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2025, 07:17:51 am »
Seems rather a false premise that many U.S. conservatives consider Russia a haven for traditional values in the first place. That possibility occurs to very few of us, I'd wager.

Take a visit over to FreeRepublic, it's like a bizarro-World there ...  you'd think you're reading the TASS website, there's so much Putin-propaganda and lies. Putin is the Western World's savior and the true heir to Jesus Christ, according to them!

Fortunately, TBR is a lot more sensible ...

FreeRussia is controlled by a small group of anti-free-speech Nazis - no wonder its donations are down!!

Offline mountaineer

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2025, 07:23:51 am »
Take a visit over to FreeRepublic, it's like a bizarro-World there ...
Ha. No argument from me on that point!
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2025, 08:48:55 am »
Another silly article, prob sponsored by the Neo-con dinosaurs.   

True conservatives despise Putin, but also realize that Ukraine leadership is no friend either.
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Offline DominusVobiscum

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2025, 02:34:46 pm »
Another silly article, prob sponsored by the Neo-con dinosaurs.   

True conservatives despise Putin, but also realize that Ukraine leadership is no friend either.

The republican party  conservatives have been taken over by populists who have one thing in common with communists in that they are have the envy thing down pat. 

Offline mountaineer

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2025, 02:36:20 pm »
The republican party  conservatives have been taken over by populists who have one thing in common with communists in that they are have the envy thing down pat.  :silly: :tinfoil: :laughingdog:
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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2025, 02:36:51 pm »
Another silly article, prob sponsored by the Neo-con dinosaurs.   

True conservatives despise Putin, but also realize that Ukraine leadership is no friend either.

 888high58888

Offline cato potatoe

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2025, 03:02:27 pm »
There are few allies of American-style conservatism in Europe.  The ones who speak up are shunned and excluded from governing coalitions.  The soft tyrants who run Europe just find Putin a little too on-the-nose.

Offline MeganC

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2025, 04:38:34 pm »
Take a visit over to FreeRepublic, it's like a bizarro-World there ...  you'd think you're reading the TASS website, there's so much Putin-propaganda and lies. Putin is the Western World's savior and the true heir to Jesus Christ, according to them!

Fortunately, TBR is a lot more sensible ...

Quite true especially given how often TASS is reposted on the Free Russia Republic site.

https://freerepublic.com/tag/tass/index?tab=articles
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2025, 06:59:23 pm »
Take a visit over to FreeRepublic, it's like a bizarro-World there ...  you'd think you're reading the TASS website, there's so much Putin-propaganda and lies. Putin is the Western World's savior and the true heir to Jesus Christ, according to them!

Fortunately, TBR is a lot more sensible ...

That is why they they are there and we are here.
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Offline MeganC

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2025, 07:03:09 pm »
That is why they they are there and we are here.

Something for which I am endlessly grateful!  :yowsa:
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Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2025, 07:04:54 pm »
The republican party  conservatives have been taken over by populists who have one thing in common with communists in that they are have the envy thing down pat.

Populism is, IMO, almost as pernicious as communism when it will come to destroying economies. It has not worked well elsewhere.


Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2025, 07:07:24 pm »
Populism is, IMO, almost as pernicious as communism when it will come to destroying economies. It has not worked well elsewhere.

"Populism" is just another word for "mob rule."
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2025, 07:16:00 pm »
That is why they they are there and we are here.

Don't ever invite me to a TOS type meeting at Olive Garden for free bread sticks and a purge.
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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2025, 07:19:52 pm »
"Populism" is just another word for "mob rule."

This we agree on.

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2025, 07:30:40 pm »
"Populism" is just another word for "mob rule."

I never heard it put that way...you are right!
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2025, 07:37:12 pm »
"Populism" is just another word for "mob rule."

Can't the same be said of "democracy" @Cyber Liberty ?

Is not our guardrail against wanton mob rule our rooting in the rule of law, not of men?




« Last Edit: March 10, 2025, 07:40:40 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2025, 07:53:32 pm »
Can't the same be said of "democracy" @Cyber Liberty ?

Is not our guardrail against wanton mob rule our rooting in the rule of law, not of men?

That's why we are not a democracy. That's also mob rule. That's why the Founders hated that word.

ETA: The republic is the guard rail.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2025, 07:55:12 pm by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2025, 07:56:00 pm »
Another silly article, prob sponsored by the Neo-con dinosaurs.   

True conservatives despise Putin, but also realize that Ukraine leadership is no friend either.

Stop making sense!

You'll hurt someone for Gods sake!
« Last Edit: March 10, 2025, 07:57:21 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2025, 08:04:17 pm »
Stop making sense!

You'll hurt someone for Gods sake!

It's like a racing go cart busting out of the race track.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2025, 08:04:42 pm »
That's why we are not a democracy. That's also mob rule. That's why the Founders hated that word.

That was my point @Cyber Liberty .....it is our rule of law, not men, that protects us.


"Populism" is just another word for "mob rule."

So, please stop equating "populism" with mob rule --- and crippling the political vehicle that's pulling us off the edge of the cliff.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2025, 08:09:10 pm »
That was my point @Cyber Liberty .....it is our rule of law, not men, that protects us.


So, please stop equating "populism" with mob rule --- and crippling the political vehicle that's pulling us off the edge of the cliff.

We will have to agree to disagree, and I know we'll do that agreeably, as we always do.   happy77
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline MeganC

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2025, 08:10:35 pm »
Populism is, IMO, almost as pernicious as communism when it will come to destroying economies. It has not worked well elsewhere.

You mean that elections are too dangerous to be entrusted to the common people?
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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2025, 08:23:17 pm »
You mean that elections are too dangerous to be entrusted to the common people?

No, "mob rule" is dangerous.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2025, 08:27:05 pm »
Can't the same be said of "democracy" @Cyber Liberty ?

Is not our guardrail against wanton mob rule our rooting in the rule of law, not of men?

Liberty has responsibilities.
Freedom has consequences.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2025, 08:32:11 pm »
Liberty has responsibilities.
Freedom has consequences.

Both go hand in hand for those who understand.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline DominusVobiscum

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2025, 08:45:02 pm »
You mean that elections are too dangerous to be entrusted to the common people?

To an extent, yes.  That's why there is the electoral college. It offers some protection against the mob.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2025, 08:52:41 pm »
Both go hand in hand for those who understand.

More one pursuant to the other... One is only 'free' if one accepts the responsibility of liberty. It is a fine line...

But ANY other 'freedom becomes ones doom... and is rife with consequences.

So one is never really free, in the sense that we see 'freedom' today.
freedom in its ancient form IS liberty. And it only persists as one continues to maintain its responsibilities - THAT is the danger of populism. It chases freedom, not liberty.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2025, 09:35:48 pm »
We will have to agree to disagree, and I know we'll do that agreeably, as we always do.   happy77

I'm trying to figure out what we agree or disagree about @Cyber Liberty   :laugh:

It is my opinion that whenever there is the empowerment of the non-elites, there is the potential for mob rule.   Thankfully, our system was formed with multiple guardrails to prevent mob rule ---- we are a constitutional republic, where actions are rooted in the rule of law, not the passions of men. Those rails have taken direct hits through our history, but they're still standing and functioning as designed.

US Populism is evidence that there is a growing dissatisfaction among citizens and they're wanting specific changes.  This is nothing to fear.

Do we agree or agree to disagree on this?  Thanks.


Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2025, 09:40:49 pm »
You mean that elections are too dangerous to be entrusted to the common people?

Where in God's name did you get that from?

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2025, 09:48:20 pm »
I'm trying to figure out what we agree or disagree about @Cyber Liberty   :laugh:

It is my opinion that whenever there is the empowerment of the non-elites, there is the potential for mob rule.   Thankfully, our system was formed with multiple guardrails to prevent mob rule ---- we are a constitutional republic, where actions are rooted in the rule of law, not the passions of men. Those rails have taken direct hits through our history, but they're still standing and functioning as designed.

US Populism is evidence that there is a growing dissatisfaction among citizens and they're wanting specific changes.  This is nothing to fear.

Do we agree or agree to disagree on this?  Thanks.

Basically, we do.  I just trifle at the term "mob rule."  The precise definition varies wildly.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2025, 10:56:16 pm »
In 1967 well over 75% of Americans opposed interracial marriage.

In a Democracy, that issue would have stood zero chance of changing, however, in a Constitutional Republic, the Will of the Majority is tempered by guaranteed rights that cannot be set aside by the weight of he entirety of the voting population.

To me, the term "populism" (as applied to our current political "mood") is akin to a general feeling by the population to set aside a lot of the sociopolitical crap the left has been shoving down our throats for the past 16 years.
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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2025, 11:11:02 pm »
To an extent, yes.  That's why there is the electoral college. It offers some protection against the mob.

Yup.  It keeps us from 5 major cities from ruin normal people lives.
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Offline MeganC

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2025, 11:11:24 pm »
To an extent, yes.  That's why there is the electoral college. It offers some protection against the mob.

Fair enough. I agree.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2025, 09:13:19 am »
Basically, we do.  I just trifle at the term "mob rule."  The precise definition varies wildly.

Okay, my friend....I just don't understand your POV.  I surrender  :truce:


"Populism" is just another word for "mob rule."






« Last Edit: March 11, 2025, 09:29:53 am by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2025, 09:34:12 am »
Okay, my friend....I just don't understand you POV.  I surrender  :truce:

Trying to understand it myself.   :pondering:   :shrug:

Perhaps Black Lives Matter mobs and the ANTIFA mobs consider themselves Populists" inside the Democratic Party.
 

https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2020/03/populism-jeopardizes-democracies-around-world

Populism is a political problem that is putting democracy at risk...
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Offline jafo2010

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2025, 11:02:30 am »
Adam Zivo, the author of this article is largely talking smack.

Are there folks in the USA that believe Russia is as he stated?  Sure there are.   But their numbers are INSIGNIFICANT.  I suspect the ones that believe that way are those that believed QAnon was real, and that Russia was actually the good guys with their attack upon Ukraine.  Mind you, I am not defending Ukraine, because I know it has been a hotbed for money laundering.

Back to Russia, the differences between Russia and the USA are significant.  First, there is RULE OF LAW.  We have it, they don't.  Russia is largely a lawless society in every aspect.  One can murder or beat a person of color there, and nothing may happen to the perp.  One can murder or beat a gay person, and nothing much will happen.  The protections in their society are not existent across the board.  Even for women, they are routinely abused.

Religious freedom.  We have it here in the USA, and it is virtually nonexistent in Russia.  Yes, the Russian Orthodox church gets to operate in Russia, in large part, because they are in the pocket of their current dictator, Putin.  And yes, Putin is an absolute dictator.  Speak out against him, and you end up in prison with a long sentence, or you end up dead.

And I know missionaries that have traveled to Russia representing Christians religions going to remote areas of Russia, and they were seized and deported from Russia.  ALL OF THEM DEPORTED.

Free speech.  We have it in the USA, and it is nonexistent in Russia.  I met 15-20 journalists years ago from Russia visiting the USA, and they were asked if they had freedom to report on their political leaders freely.  No one verbally responded.  NO ONE.  But 2-3 of them very subtly shook their heads side to side to indicate NO.

Media is completely controlled by the Putin government.  There is no free press in Russia.

So, the folks that Zivo is speaking about are literally inconsequential.  They are in the same category as Rachel Dolezal.  Dolezal is white identifying as black.  She is a member of a group that is tiny.  So is the group that identify Russia as being anything noble.

Russia is an evil state.  It has a history of not valuing life as we do here in the USA and other western nations.  There is NOTHING about Russia that is noble.  There is NOTHING conservative about Russia.  It is in fact a Godless nation, because most do not believe in God. 

They are so poor, their primary means of birth control is abortion.  My wife had one patient that had 34 abortions.  Abortion is something that is readily available, and virtually every woman has a number of them.

Last, marriage.  Marriage happens for most when they are young, like 18.  And they are typically divorced in 1-2 years, almost no exception.  The pressure in Russia is what existed here many years ago on women.  If you are not married by 18, you are considered an old maid.  Literally!  There is immense pressure on women to marry by age 18.  They are a society right out the Twilight Zone.

Productivity  In the USA, productivity is important, and in evidence in almost everything we do.  In Russia, it is virtually nonexistent, and that is why Russia has a hard time attracting capital for investment.

I could go on, but the differences are stark, and this is why I constantly reference us not going down the road to be anything like Russia.  And even if Putin goes away, I am 90% certain he is replaced with someone equally bad, or worse.





« Last Edit: March 11, 2025, 11:06:01 am by jafo2010 »

Offline MeganC

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Re: How Putin hoodwinked American conservatives
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2025, 12:55:24 pm »
Adam Zivo, the author of this article is largely talking smack.

Are there folks in the USA that believe Russia is as he stated?  Sure there are.   But their numbers are INSIGNIFICANT.  I suspect the ones that believe that way are those that believed QAnon was real, and that Russia was actually the good guys with their attack upon Ukraine.  Mind you, I am not defending Ukraine, because I know it has been a hotbed for money laundering.

Back to Russia, the differences between Russia and the USA are significant.  First, there is RULE OF LAW.  We have it, they don't.  Russia is largely a lawless society in every aspect.  One can murder or beat a person of color there, and nothing may happen to the perp.  One can murder or beat a gay person, and nothing much will happen.  The protections in their society are not existent across the board.  Even for women, they are routinely abused.

Religious freedom.  We have it here in the USA, and it is virtually nonexistent in Russia.  Yes, the Russian Orthodox church gets to operate in Russia, in large part, because they are in the pocket of their current dictator, Putin.  And yes, Putin is an absolute dictator.  Speak out against him, and you end up in prison with a long sentence, or you end up dead.

And I know missionaries that have traveled to Russia representing Christians religions going to remote areas of Russia, and they were seized and deported from Russia.  ALL OF THEM DEPORTED.

Free speech.  We have it in the USA, and it is nonexistent in Russia.  I met 15-20 journalists years ago from Russia visiting the USA, and they were asked if they had freedom to report on their political leaders freely.  No one verbally responded.  NO ONE.  But 2-3 of them very subtly shook their heads side to side to indicate NO.

Media is completely controlled by the Putin government.  There is no free press in Russia.

So, the folks that Zivo is speaking about are literally inconsequential.  They are in the same category as Rachel Dolezal.  Dolezal is white identifying as black.  She is a member of a group that is tiny.  So is the group that identify Russia as being anything noble.

Russia is an evil state.  It has a history of not valuing life as we do here in the USA and other western nations.  There is NOTHING about Russia that is noble.  There is NOTHING conservative about Russia.  It is in fact a Godless nation, because most do not believe in God. 

They are so poor, their primary means of birth control is abortion.  My wife had one patient that had 34 abortions.  Abortion is something that is readily available, and virtually every woman has a number of them.

Last, marriage.  Marriage happens for most when they are young, like 18.  And they are typically divorced in 1-2 years, almost no exception.  The pressure in Russia is what existed here many years ago on women.  If you are not married by 18, you are considered an old maid.  Literally!  There is immense pressure on women to marry by age 18.  They are a society right out the Twilight Zone.

Productivity  In the USA, productivity is important, and in evidence in almost everything we do.  In Russia, it is virtually nonexistent, and that is why Russia has a hard time attracting capital for investment.

I could go on, but the differences are stark, and this is why I constantly reference us not going down the road to be anything like Russia.  And even if Putin goes away, I am 90% certain he is replaced with someone equally bad, or worse.

Exceptional post.  :patriot:
RUSSIA MUST BE DESTROYED!!!