Author Topic: Ukraine Is On The Verge Of A Colossal Military Disaster After Latest Russian Advance  (Read 6436 times)

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Soviet assets left on Ukrainian or Belorussian territory belonged to them per the treaty that dissolved the USSR. Which is why Ukraine retained much of the Soviet Black Sea fleet, Soviet aircraft, and Soviet armor. That included the Soviet nuclear weapons which is why Russia had to negotiate for them from a sovereign Ukraine.

If you would check your facts you'd know this.

They should build more. They can’t because the assets left after the dissolution of the USSR were never under control.

They never replaced them because they don’t have the capacity to make them.

Nite Toots. Back to the ignore pile with you.
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Online DCPatriot

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Soviet assets left on Ukrainian or Belorussian territory belonged to them per the treaty that dissolved the USSR. Which is why Ukraine retained much of the Soviet Black Sea fleet, Soviet aircraft, and Soviet armor. That included the Soviet nuclear weapons which is why Russia had to negotiate for them from a sovereign Ukraine.

If you would check your facts you'd know this.

Facts are that Ukraine has no nuclear capability as the weapons were Soviet Union's.  Possession doesn't translate to having the technology.

Stop twisting the truth @MeganC

I understand that you couldn't pull this crap at TOS with their thousands of posters, so you think you can do it here with our several dozen?  Doesn't work that way.  Please stop!! 
:0001:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

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Offline MeganC

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Facts are that Ukraine has no nuclear capability as the weapons were Soviet Union's.  Possession doesn't translate to having the technology.

Stop twisting the truth @MeganC

I understand that you couldn't pull this crap at TOS with their thousands of posters, so you think you can do it here with our several dozen?  Doesn't work that way.  Please stop!! 
:0001:

After the fall of the Soviet Union in December 1991, the Soviet military was divided among the newly independent states that emerged from the dissolution. Here’s a breakdown of how this division occurred:

1. Formation of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS)

In December 1991, several former Soviet republics signed the Belavezha Accords, which led to the establishment of the CIS. The CIS was intended to facilitate cooperation among the former Soviet republics and included a framework for military collaboration.

2. Distribution of Military Assets

The Soviet Armed Forces were officially disbanded, and military assets were divided among the republics. The division was based on the location of military units and the distribution of military hardware.
Russia retained the bulk of the military equipment, including strategic nuclear forces, as it was the largest and most powerful of the successor states.
Other republics, such as Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, also received significant portions of military hardware, particularly ground forces and air defense systems.

3. Nuclear Weapons

At the time of the Soviet Union's dissolution, Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan found themselves with nuclear weapons on their territories. Under the Budapest Memorandum (1994), these countries agreed to relinquish their nuclear arsenals in exchange for security assurances from Russia, the United States, and the United Kingdom.
By 1996, Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan had transferred all their nuclear weapons to Russia.


4. Military Structure and Command

Each of the newly independent states established their own military structures, often recruiting from former Soviet military personnel. The command and control systems were reorganized to adapt to the new national frameworks.
Some republics, like Ukraine and Georgia, faced challenges in establishing effective military forces due to political instability and economic difficulties.

5. Continued Relations

Despite the division, some former Soviet republics maintained military cooperation through the CIS and other agreements, although tensions existed, particularly between Russia and states like Georgia and Ukraine.
Conclusion

The division of the Soviet military was a complex process influenced by political, strategic, and security considerations. While Russia emerged as the dominant military power, the other successor states sought to establish their own military identities and capabilities in the post-Soviet landscape.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2025, 12:07:38 pm by MeganC »
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Online DCPatriot

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3. Nuclear Weapons

At the time of the Soviet Union's dissolution, Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan found themselves with nuclear weapons on their territories. Under the Budapest Memorandum (1994), these countries agreed to relinquish their nuclear arsenals in exchange for security assurances from Russia, the United States, and the United Kingdom.
By 1996, Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan had transferred all their nuclear weapons to Russia.




Don't shout at me, please.

Here you admit that the nuclear weapons were merely stored in various provinces/states. They were manufactured elsewhere in Mother Russia.

They never were Ukraine's.  Ukraine never possessed the tech know-how which you have falsely claimed on the board.

Thanks for playing.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline MeganC

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Don't shout at me, please.

Here you admit that the nuclear weapons were merely stored in various provinces/states. They were manufactured elsewhere in Mother Russia.

They never were Ukraine's.  Ukraine never possessed the tech know-how which you have falsely claimed on the board.

Thanks for playing.


During the Soviet era, Ukraine played a key role in the production and operation of strategic and tactical nuclear weapons, including the SS-18 and SS-24 ICBMs, with facilities like Pivdenmash in Dnipro producing missiles and Kharkiv developing guidance systems.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

Missile Production:
Pivdenmash (Yuzhmash): This facility in Dnipro, Ukraine, was a major producer of Soviet missiles, including ICBMs like the SS-24, which Ukraine's Missile Forces used.

SS-18 (Satan): Pivdenmash also manufactured the SS-18, a powerful ICBM, though these were primarily deployed in Russia and Kazakhstan, not Ukraine.

Khartron Production Association: produced guidance systems

Pavlohrad Chemical and Mechanical Plants: were also involved in ICBM manufacture
Guidance Systems:

The guidance systems for these missiles were developed in Kharkiv.

The subject of Ukraine being able to develop 'crude' nuclear weapons in the ~15KT yield range is further discussed here:

https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/zelensky-nuclear-weapons-bomb-0ddjrs5hw

Excerpting the important part:

Ukraine still controls nine operational reactors and has significant nuclear expertise despite having given up the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal in 1996. The report says: “The weight of reactor plutonium available to Ukraine can be estimated at seven tons … A significant nuclear weapons arsenal would require much less material … the amount of material is sufficient for hundreds of warheads with a tactical yield of several kilotons.”
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Offline MeganC

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They were manufactured elsewhere in Mother Russia.

Pardon me, your slip is showing.  tipping hat!!
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Online catfish1957

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Pardon me, your slip is showing.  tipping hat!!

Wow, you are young and naive. "Mother Russia" is an anecdotal term in the vernacular that Russians use to describe themselves forever  That last post was embarassing.  Tell you what I like you, so....  Delete it, and I'll delete this one.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline MeganC

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Wow, you are young and naive. "Mother Russia" is an anecdotal term in the vernacular that Russians use to describe themselves forever  That last post was embarassing.  Tell you what I like you, so....  Delete it, and I'll delete this one.

You're telling me you're a Russian? So noted.  tipping hat!!
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Online catfish1957

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You're telling me you're a Russian? So noted.  tipping hat!!

lol...suit yourself, and  speaking of suits, I suggest donning  your asbestos variety.

@DCPatriot
« Last Edit: March 12, 2025, 01:05:26 pm by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline MeganC

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lol...suit yourself, and  speaking of suits, I suggiest donning  your asbestos variety.

@DCPatriot

For future reference if you wish to make nice with me you might not want to open with an insult:

"Wow, you are young and naive."
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Online catfish1957

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For future reference if you wish to make nice with me you might not want to open with an insult:

"Wow, you are young and naive."

Ohh baloney...I'd rather be young and naive than old and a curmudgeon. 
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Online Free Vulcan

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The way I'd negotiate the peace is give Russia a binary choice - if you want to keep a couple of provinces fine, but Ukraine gets into NATO. If you don't like that, give up the provinces.

If they agree to having Ukraine in NATO, then after that what we should do is pull out and put it in Europe's lap with a big screw you smile on our face.
The Republic is lost.

Online jafo2010

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I think NATO still has purpose with Russia flexing its muscle.  But I believe the USA should reduce its contribution to 10% of the total for military defense, with European nations greatly increasing their contributions.

And those nations that FAIL to provide their appropriate share, well, they are exempt from the protections of Article 5.  Pay to play folks!!!

Offline libertybele

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Facts are that Ukraine has no nuclear capability as the weapons were Soviet Union's.  Possession doesn't translate to having the technology.

Stop twisting the truth @MeganC

I understand that you couldn't pull this crap at TOS with their thousands of posters, so you think you can do it here with our several dozen?  Doesn't work that way.  Please stop!! 
:0001:

Well .... you tried.  Good luck with that.  The 'ignore' feature comes in handy.

Online Free Vulcan

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I think NATO still has purpose with Russia flexing its muscle.  But I believe the USA should reduce its contribution to 10% of the total for military defense, with European nations greatly increasing their contributions.

And those nations that FAIL to provide their appropriate share, well, they are exempt from the protections of Article 5.  Pay to play folks!!!

It must be like that or there's no reason to stay. I'm tired of them using their money for some cotton candy, kiddie playground social safety net while they bleed us dry.

Something has to give.
The Republic is lost.

Online DCPatriot

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Well .... you tried.  Good luck with that.  The 'ignore' feature comes in handy.

LOL!  Never use the "IGNORE" feature. 

99% of the time, like Dionne Warwick, I "...scroll on by"
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline libertybele

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LOL!  Never use the "IGNORE" feature. 

99% of the time, like Dionne Warwick, I "...scroll on by"


Gottcha.   :beer:

Offline libertybele

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It must be like that or there's no reason to stay. I'm tired of them using their money for some cotton candy, kiddie playground social safety net while they bleed us dry.

Something has to give.

Trump has talked about getting us out of NATO.  Another entity and expense that we can do without.

Offline MeganC

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Ohh baloney...I'd rather be young and naive than old and a curmudgeon.

Young curmudgeons like me grow up to be old curmudgeons like you.  wink777
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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For future reference if you wish to make nice with me you might not want to open with an insult:

"Wow, you are young and naive."

Yeah…

You’re more of the “labeling someone a ‘bootlicker’ right out of the gate” type.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2025, 06:38:23 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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I found using the “Gray Lady” as a source for any manner of discussion worth its weight in canary droppings amusing.
“Never let anyone drive you crazy; it is nearby anyway and the walk is good for you.” - Cheshire Cat

Offline MeganC

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Yeah…

You’re more of the “labeling someone a ‘bootlicker’ right out of the gate” type.

You know, this bothers you more than it bothers me.  :tongue2:

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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You know, this bothers you more than it bothers me.  :tongue2:

It’s more of a deeply-seeded aversion to hypocrisy than anything bothering me, if you really wish to know.

“Never let anyone drive you crazy; it is nearby anyway and the walk is good for you.” - Cheshire Cat

Online Wingnut

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LOL!  Never use the "IGNORE" feature. 

99% of the time, like Dionne Warwick, I "...scroll on by"


Yup...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GswJOWEkLJM&ab_channel=JustinFung
You don’t become cooler with age but you do care progressively less about being cool, which is the only true way to actually be cool.

Online DCPatriot

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Yup...
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GswJOWEkLJM&ab_channel=JustinFung

YIKES!   :beer:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald