Wall St closes lower as Trump sets 25% tariffs, manufacturing data dips

[libertybele]

IMO in the long run the tariffs will pay off.  We cannot continue to allow 'free trade' over 'fair trade'; it's put a damper on our economy for quite some time.  Whatever ever happened though to Trump's revamping of NAFTA?? I thought that was to help even out trade between Mexico and Canada.

Wall St closes lower as Trump sets 25% tariffs, manufacturing data dips

 Wall Street's main stock indexes closed sharply lower on Monday after President Donald Trump announced the start of 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico, with the S&P 500 posting its biggest daily percentage decline since December 18.
Stocks had already slipped after an ISM survey, and they extended losses after Trump said 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico will go into effect on Tuesday with reciprocal tariffs starting April 2. He said the North American countries had "no room left" to avert the tariffs.
"Markets were looking for another 11th hour deal to further delay tariffs, but aren't going to get one this time," said Jamie Cox, managing partner at Harris Financial Group. "The threat of tariffs has run its course for now, so the next phase is to endure them. Markets have to price that reality, and those numbers are painted red."
The ISM survey showed manufacturing PMI slipped to 50.3 last month from 50.9 in January, while the forward-looking new orders index contracted to 48.6 in February from 55.1 in January. The dip in the PMI mirrored declines in other sentiment measures as investors worried about tariffs.
"I think it's just more of a continuation of a string of bad economic news that tends to put a little bit of a dampener on the optimism that we saw from the fourth quarter earnings that were getting released, which were pretty good," said James St. Aubin, chief investment officer at Ocean Park Asset Management in Santa Monica, California.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/futures-edge-up-with-economic-data-tariffs-focus-2025-03-03/

[LMAO]

IMO in the long run the tariffs will pay off. 

 

[Canuck Conservative]

Tariffs are a tax.

If Trump wants to put a tax on incoming goods, that just raises their prices for consumers.

Strange move, for an Administration that claimed it wanted to tackle inflation.

Wanna bet that Airbus and foreign car companies aren't loving the fact that American cars and planes - two of the US' biggest exports - will now be more expensive??

[DefiantMassRINO]

Supply chain re-allignment will take a while.

In the meantime, the Chi-coms will use their unfair trade practices to decimate as many American industries as they can.

[libertybele]

Re-aligning our economy and trade practices isn't going to happen overnight and some pain is going to be felt along with it.

Wait till they decide to go back to the gold standard, abolish the IRS and audit the Fed.  Those are going to be painful as well, but it needs to be done.

[LMAO]

Tariffs are a tax.

If Trump wants to put a tax on incoming goods, that just raises their prices for consumers.

Strange move, for an Administration that claimed it wanted to tackle inflation.

Wanna bet that Airbus and foreign car companies aren't loving the fact that American cars and planes - two of the US' biggest exports - will now be more expensive??

@Canuck Conservative

And at one time, conservatives used to understand this

Trump will not be immune from the voter backlash that’s coming that also hurt Biden and Harris

If voters were unhappy with rising consumer cost under Biden, they’re not going to embrace them under Trump just because MAGA  tells them they have to bear pain

His first round of tariffs did damage to the economy. Yet somehow they’re gonna work this time? Lol!!!

[Wingnut]

Those

@Canuck Conservative

This is gonna hurt you more than it is gonna hurt me. 

Bend over Canuck. 

[Bigun]

@Canuck Conservative

And at one time, conservatives used to understand this

Trump will not be immune from the voter backlash that’s coming that also hurt Biden and Harris

If voters were unhappy with rising consumer cost under Biden, they’re not going to embrace them under Trump just because MAGA  tells them they have to bear pain

His first round of tariffs did damage to the economy. Yet somehow they’re gonna work this time? Lol!!!

Conservatives understand this very well and always have! Tariffs are a sales tax on goods imported from elsewhere into the United States and have never been anything other than that.  The net long term effect is LESS manufacturing elsewhere and more here.

[libertybele]

@Canuck Conservative

And at one time, conservatives used to understand this

Trump will not be immune from the voter backlash that’s coming that also hurt Biden and Harris

If voters were unhappy with rising consumer cost under Biden, they’re not going to embrace them under Trump just because MAGA  tells them they have to bear pain

His first round of tariffs did damage to the economy. Yet somehow they’re gonna work this time? Lol!!!

Hey @LMAO  ---

Yes, tariffs are a tax.  Trump is only trying to level the playing field -- IF China charges us a 30% tax on goods why should we not in turn charge 30%?  Free trade needs to end and fair trade needs to begin.

I am trying to understand where you're coming from -- why is it that it seems that the U.S. always has to end up on the short end of the stick. 

[LMAO]

Conservatives understand this very well and always have! Tariffs are a sales tax on goods imported from elsewhere into the United States and have never been anything other than that.

All the same people here who complained about the high cost of living under Biden/Harris are now telling that rising costs under Donald Trump is no big deal and it’s pain we have to bear

Experts are predicting another 8 to $12,000 added onto the price of a car due to his latest round of tariffs . So what do you think consumers are gonna do? They’re not gonna go out and buy cars that’s for sure. So what do you think that does to the car manufacturing industry? Consumer confidence is dropping already

Donald Trump will get the same treatment from the electorate as Biden did. And if voters continue to feel their standard of living isn’t improving, good luck getting JD Vance as POTUS 

[LMAO]

Hey @LMAO  ---

Yes, tariffs are a tax.  Trump is only trying to level the playing field -- IF China charges us a 30% tax on goods why should we not in turn charge 30%?  Free trade needs to end and fair trade needs to begin.

I am trying to understand where you're coming from -- why is it that it seems that the U.S. always has to end up on the short end of the stick.

Take your case to the voters. Tell them that the higher prices that they’re gonna pay are just part of fair trade.

See if the voting public agrees

[libertybele]

Take your case to the voters. Tell them that the higher prices that they’re gonna pay are just part of fair trade.

See if the voting public agrees

I was trying to understand why you think free trade is better for the U.S. than fair trade.  I understand what we are headed for -- for the interim, but the long range plans, goals and agenda will be beneficial for the U.S. Prices will settle, tax burdens will be reduced, the economy will rebound and once this occurs, you just may be surprised by the voters.

Are you not one that wanted the deficit and spending reduced??  Keeping on the same course and allowing other countries to take advantage of our printing press won't continue to work. 

Either way we are on a collision course; one I believe will be for the interim, the other will bankrupt this country.  I opt to take a turn onto the first highway, in spite of its badly paved roads and pot holes till it eventually becomes a nicely paved road with fewer pot holes.  Neither is an optimal highway in the beginning, but one destination is much better than the other.

[LMAO]

I was trying to understand why you think free trade is better for the U.S. than fair trade.  I understand what we are headed for -- for the interim, but the long range plans, goals and agenda will be beneficial for the U.S. Prices will settle, tax burdens will be reduced, the economy will rebound and once this occurs, you just may be surprised by the voters.

Are you not one that wanted the deficit and spending reduced??  Keeping on the same course and allowing other countries to take advantage of our printing press won't continue to work. 

Either way we are on a collision course; one I believe will be for the interim, the other will bankrupt this country.  I opt to take a turn onto the first highway, in spite of its badly paved roads and pot holes till it eventually becomes a nicely paved road with fewer pot holes.  Neither is an optimal highway in the beginning, but one destination is much better than the other.

You’re confusing budget deficits with trade deficit.


I had the same argument with a relative when inflation spiked in  2021 under Biden that this is gonna stick in the economy. His  rebuttal sounds just like yours.

But if you believe that the voters  will have no problem with the suffering because, in your mind, it’ll be “transitory” , more  power to you 
Tump could very easily  usher in a progressive president in 2028 just  like Hoover did

[libertybele]

You’re confusing budget deficits with trade deficit.


I had the same argument with a relative when inflation spiked in  2021 under Biden that this is gonna stick in the economy. His  rebuttal sounds just like yours.

But if you believe that the voters  will have no problem with the suffering because, in your mind, it’ll be “transitory” , more  power to you 

Tom could very well  usher in a progressive president in 2028

Quite likely -- as for rebuttal -- not actually a rebuttal, but rather my understanding of the situation.

Again, I am just trying to understand.  Nothing more than that.

I guess I'll wait, see and learn.

[jmyrlefuller]

All the same people here who complained about the high cost of living under Biden/Harris are now telling that rising costs under Donald Trump is no big deal and it’s pain we have to bear

Experts are predicting another 8 to $12,000 added onto the price of a car due to his latest round of tariffs . So what do you think consumers are gonna do? They’re not gonna go out and buy cars that’s for sure. So what do you think that does to the car manufacturing industry? Consumer confidence is dropping already

Donald Trump will get the same treatment from the electorate as Biden did. And if voters continue to feel their standard of living isn’t improving, good luck getting JD Vance as POTUS 

Donald Trump is a lame duck, he has no one left to answer for... and it pretty obviously shows.

As for tariffs, other than bombing other countries, what do you suggest to fix the trade deficit?

[jmyrlefuller]

We cannot compete with countries that pay poverty "wages" for 16-hour days in sweatshop conditions without tariffs.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Supply chain re-allignment will take a while.

In the meantime, the Chi-coms will use their unfair trade practices to decimate as many American industries as they can.

Yeah I just don't get this move. Tariffs on China? Love it. Tariffs on Canada and Mexico... why?

I hope he knows what he's doing.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Tariffs are a tax.

If Trump wants to put a tax on incoming goods, that just raises their prices for consumers.

What are you going to do when folks figure out they don't need to buy your exports??

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

What are you going to do when folks figure out they don't need to buy your exports??

Canada's exports could come in pretty handy for us right now... and we haven't felt the effects of this tax yet. Let's talk in one year and see how it's going.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Canada's exports could come in pretty handy for us right now... and we haven't felt the effects of this tax yet. Let's talk in one year and see how it's going.

Why do you always see the worst outcome?  Does change, itself,  frighten you? 

[libertybele]

Yeah I just don't get this move. Tariffs on China? Love it. Tariffs on Canada and Mexico... why?

I hope he knows what he's doing.

On the economy especially, I believe Trump knows what he's doing and it will be beneficial for our county.

[Wingnut]

I'm trying to figure out what items we import from from "Tarrifed" countries I can't live without/

Yup. none

Marked safe from high prices on imports.

[jmyrlefuller]

Why do you always see the worst outcome?  Does change, itself,  frighten you?

That's literally what conservatism is all about, RiV. Change for change's sake is bad.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Credit where credit is due, previous trump admin had a good economy until the Covid thing.

I always look at tariffs as a punitive measure only and while china certainly needs a spanking, not sure the reasoning for canada and mexico, our traditional allies and good neighbors.

[DB]

If what Trump says is true, he's only matching Canada's tariffs on American products. That seems fair enough.

If Canada doesn't want tariffs on their products all they have to do is drop the tariffs on American products.

So the only winning Canadian move is drop their tariffs on American products letting Trump do the same on Canadian products.

[libertybele]

Credit where credit is due, previous trump admin had a good economy until the Covid thing.

I always look at tariffs as a punitive measure only and while china certainly needs a spanking, not sure the reasoning for canada and mexico, our traditional allies and good neighbors.

Good neighbors?  No.  Both are letting fentanyl into the country, both are allowing ILLEGALS into the country and for the most part they find their way on our doorstep. They are charging us higher tariffs then we are charging them, but I thought that was remedied through Trump's re-negotiation of NAFTA.

[catfish1957]

I for one for selfish reasons would love to see a decent correction.  '87, '00, '09 and '20 as you can see don't come around very often.  I still see this market right now as easily over 50% over-valued

My take on these tariffs is mixed.  In a lot of ways its the economic version of playing "Chicken".  Prior posters are correct in the matter that this is basically a imposed value added tax. That never works out well in and if that is the only strategy.

Except, here, I am early on going to give DJT the benefit of the doubt.  I will take him on his word, that these are being imposed as a leveling of the playing field versus, and potentially a spiraling out control trade war.  If we can get that equity, and the tariffs eased,  this is a master stroke.... If not....   this could backfire fugly. 

Ask me again in 6 months...   

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Experts are predicting another 8 to $12,000 added onto the price of a car due to his latest round of tariffs . So what do you think consumers are gonna do? They’re not gonna go out and buy cars that’s for sure.

Ok, I'll bite.

Where did your source for 'experts' come from?  Maybe Fiat or ?

And how does an American made car which BTW, are overwhelmingly most cars sold in the USA, go up by that amount since it has no tariffs?

Do you know that the EU slaps a 10% tariff on American made cars while We only put a 2.5% tariff on European made cars?

Do you believe that to be fair or do you believe we have been getting screwed when dealing with the EU?

[libertybele]

Ok, I'll bite.


Where did your source for 'experts' come from?  Maybe Fiat or ?

And how does an American made car which BTW, are overwhelmingly most cars sold in the USA, go up by that amount since it has no tariffs?

Do you know that the EU slaps a 10% tariff on American made cars while We only put a 2.5% tariff on European made cars?

Do you believe that to be fair or do you believe we have been getting screwed when dealing with the EU?

The U.S. has been getting screwed also from Canada, China and Mexico.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

That's literally what conservatism is all about, RiV. Change for change's sake is bad.

Really?  Then you still ride mules and wash clothes on a scrubboard?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I for one for selfish reasons would love to see a decent correction.  '87, '00, '09 and '20 as you can see don't come around very often.  I still see this market right now as easily over 50% over-valued

My take on these tariffs is mixed.  In a lot of ways its the economic version of playing "Chicken".  Prior posters are correct in the matter that this is basically a imposed value added tax. That never works out well in and if that is the only strategy.

Except, here, I am early on going to give DJT the benefit of the doubt.  I will take him on his word, that these are being imposed as a leveling of the playing field versus, and potentially a spiraling out control trade war.  If we can get that equity, and the tariffs eased,  this is a master stroke.... If not....   this could backfire fugly. 

Ask me again in 6 months...

Thinking like an old timer who has already built up his wealth.

We must think about the manufacturing base and those jobs.  Fundamental to keeping our military from being compromised.

I try to buy local and rather pay a bit more for what I know is American made rather than Chinese.

We have been a huge sinkhole for countries to unload into, taking our money out of the country.  DT is trying to lessen that sucking sound and give the value to American citizens.

The more we get them to work, then the less welfare we need, and the more taxes come into the Treasury.

Will not be quick, and may take a couple of years as tariffs have a way of being reciprocally reduced over time, as countries realize the best course is to limit tariffs between them.  I saw where we might be trading tariff free with Argentina, which might be a powerhouse partner.

[libertybele]

It is not going to be painless but we will eventually be better off as a country, especially if we also see a balanced budget.

That is what he needed to better explain to the American people last night.

Then there are the mid-terms ... hopefully things will begin to turn  around before that ....

[LMAO]

Ok, I'll bite.

Where did your source for 'experts' come from?  Maybe Fiat or ?

You need to expand your sources of information


"You're going to see folks looking at buying used cars or keeping their cars longer because by and large Americans are very unlikely to want to pay a 4 or 5 or $8,000 penalty for buying a product now that they didn't have to pay a month ago," said Patrick Anderson, CEO of Anderson Economic Group, a Michigan based automotive consultant.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/president-trumps-tariffs-canada-mexico-china-auto-prices/285-a7a3f360-2c9b-48bb-8fa8-5b281b05cc46


Personally, I give more credence to people who study this  stuff for a living versus a many times over failed businessman who crashed the economy the  first time he was president and whose first round of tariffs caused economic harm

You choose differently. And we’re gonna see who’s right although I see he’s backing down somewhat

[LMAO]

It is not going to be painless but we will eventually be better off as a country, especially if we also see a balanced budget.

That is what he needed to better explain to the American people last night.

Then there are the mid-terms ... hopefully things will begin to turn  around before that ....

Lol

That should sell to the electorate. I don’t think American people are willing to suffer just for Donald Trump’s ego


I don’t know which is more ridiculous. Telling people they must suffer with already higher prices going higher  or doing what the Biden administration did and pretended inflation wasn’t a problem.

[libertybele]

Lol

That should sell to the electorate. I don’t think American people are willing to suffer just for Donald Trump’s ego


I don’t know which is more ridiculous. Telling people they must suffer with already higher prices going higher  or doing what the Biden administration did and pretended inflation wasn’t a problem.

I have faith in Trump handling the economy and our country period.

[DefiantMassRINO]

Biden's people did not understand supply and demand.  Trump's people understand supply and demand.

They are using creative destruction in an attempt to build a more favorable business investment environment in the United States.

Creating a positive business investment environment requires navigating a fondue of local, county, regional, state, and Federal regulatory authorities.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

You need to expand your sources of information


"You're going to see folks looking at buying used cars or keeping their cars longer because by and large Americans are very unlikely to want to pay a 4 or 5 or $8,000 penalty for buying a product now that they didn't have to pay a month ago," said Patrick Anderson, CEO of Anderson Economic Group, a Michigan based automotive consultant.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/president-trumps-tariffs-canada-mexico-china-auto-prices/285-a7a3f360-2c9b-48bb-8fa8-5b281b05cc46


Personally, I give more credence to people who study this  stuff for a living versus a many times over failed businessman who crashed the economy the  first time he was president and whose first round of tariffs caused economic harm

You choose differently. And we’re gonna see who’s right although I see he’s backing down somewhat

And you need to actually read your source articles.

It says UP TO those additional prices, and that is NOT a quote from 'experts' like you said it is.

Go ahead and buy a German made car if you like, and try to keep the hyperventilating to a minimum, will you?

[catfish1957]

Want to see a strange oddity?  The VIX is only up in the mid 20's. That tells me that the market movement is more facilitated  by fundamentals than emotion.  And that is a good thing for 2 reasons:

1. The large market players are fully understanding that this is a negotiation strategy rather than invoking a trade war.
2. That the finely placed tariffs are not going to have as much damage as what is being advertised. 

I really expect some positive movement in the next few weeks, between all parties, except the Chicoms. They have a whole lot more to lose in the short term than we do.   Their sabre rattling make get a little louder, especially if we have positive movement on the Ukraine situation.  That will be 2 losses for them, on 2 fronts.