Zelensky's five moves that set off Trump

[catfish1957]

I know back on topic: Zelensky's five moves that set off Trump 

Z has a lot of making up to do..

Friday was an irredeemable stunt.  I actually saw it in the positive light that we now have a green light opportunity to toss Ukraine and NATO to the side,  Senator Mike Lee has already proposed this.

[MeganC]

Friday was an irredeemable stunt.  I actually saw it in the positive light that we now have a green light opportunity to toss Ukraine and NATO to the side,  Senator Mike Lee has already proposed this.

American isolationism always ends in war. Always.

[catfish1957]

American isolationism always ends in war. Always.

Aw come on....   that is like saying life always ends with death. 

[DCPatriot]

Hmmm...could explain somebody's absence.   

[MeganC]

With US involvement in NATO there hasn't been a major war in Europe for eighty years. It's the longest run of peace for the West in the history of Western civilization.

Too many people like yourself think that NATO was primarily created to keep Russia out of Europe. While this was one of its goals the primary purpose of NATO was to unify Europe and prevent them from being a threat to us or each other.

Well, now they're unified. And with us absent from NATO they may well decide to destroy the Russian threat once and for all.

And then they'll turn their eyes towards America. Their history is filled with anti-American hostility and they'll revert to form. Bank on it.

[libertybele]

Friday was an irredeemable stunt.  I actually saw it in the positive light that we now have a green light opportunity to toss Ukraine and NATO to the side,  Senator Mike Lee has already proposed this.

I'm hoping that Trump removing us from NATO will be announced tonight in Trump's SOTU speech.

[libertybele]

With US involvement in NATO there hasn't been a major war in Europe for eighty years. It's the longest run of peace for the West in the history of Western civilization.

Too many people like yourself think that NATO was primarily created to keep Russia out of Europe. While this was one of its goals the primary purpose of NATO was to unify Europe and prevent them from being a threat to us or each other.

Well, now they're unified. And with us absent from NATO they may well decide to destroy the Russian threat once and for all.

And then they'll turn their eyes towards America. Their history is filled with anti-American hostility and they'll revert to form. Bank on it.

 

[MeganC]

For the first 150 years or so of US history the Europeans were our adversaries. And now people like yourself are saying we should get out of NATO because the Europeans are not our friends and here you are acting as if they are.

Not you personally, but the isolationists in general act like women who break up with someone and are then unable to grasp that the other person will move on.

You folks want the USA to leave NATO, right? Then what do you expect the Europeans to do next? They will be forced to militarize and at some point they'll put an end to Russia because why keep putting up with a perennial Russian threat?

And when we sit out that war do you expect the EU to be all warm and cuddly with us? I don't.

[catfish1957]

For the first 150 years or so of US history the Europeans were our adversaries. And now people like yourself are saying we should get out of NATO because the Europeans are not our friends and here you are acting as if they are.

Not you personally, but the isolationists in general act like women who break up with someone and are then unable to grasp that the other person will move on.

You folks want the USA to leave NATO, right? Then what do you expect the Europeans to do next? They will be forced to militarize and at some point they'll put an end to Russia because why keep putting up with a perennial Russian threat?

And when we sit out that war do you expect the EU to be all warm and cuddly with us? I don't.

Early on, in that 150 year period we enacted the Monroe Doctrine which basically kept external  interests from threatening ours in our hemisphere.

so flip that script.  What do you think someone over there thinks of us, when we meddle?  I understand the threat of communism, but until the Chicoms start sabre rattling, I think we arm up to address their threat, and deep 6 Europe. / NATO

[MeganC]

Early on, in that 150 year period we enacted the Monroe Doctrine which basically kept external  interests from threatening ours in our hemisphere.

so flip that script.  What do you think someone over there thinks of us, when we meddle?  I understand the threat of communism, but until the Chicoms start sabre rattling, I think we arm up to address their threat, and deep 6 Europe. / NATO

Then don't be shocked when Europe resumes its historical view of the US as an adversary. The EU will protect and pursue their interests over ours.

Isn't that what we are doing?

Edit: I am a prophet.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/03/03/british-nuclear-weapons-canada-trump-chrystia-freeland/

[catfish1957]

Then don't be shocked when Europe resumes its historical view of the US as an adversary. The EU will protect and pursue their interests over ours.

Isn't that what we are doing?

Edit: I am a prophet.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/03/03/british-nuclear-weapons-canada-trump-chrystia-freeland/

Hate to tell you , but Europe has hated us all along, and considered us uncouth, uncultured hicks. 

So in essence we always have been an adversary, until they need us.

[deb]

Hate to tell you , but Europe has hated us all along, and considered us uncouth, uncultured hicks. 

So in essence we always have been an adversary, until they need us.

Until they need our money. And the blood of our young men.

[DefiantMassRINO]

Europe is America's trust fund baby.  It resents America, but it still dependent upon America for defense.  They don't have to lift a finger to help themselves, but they still complain anyway.

Europe can misbehave all it wants because, they know, in the end, America will save them from the consequences of their lazy, 35 hour work-week, month of August vacation, socilaist, imperialist, duplicitous, protectionist ways.

[libertybele]

Europe is America's trust fund baby.  It resents America, but it still dependent upon America for defense.  They don't have to lift a finger to help themselves, but they still complain anyway.

Europe can misbehave all it wants because, they know, in the end, America will save them from the consequences of their lazy, 35 hour work-week, month of August vacation, socilaist, imperialist, duplicitous, protectionist ways.

Hopefully under Trump, not any longer. 

[MeganC]

Hate to tell you , but Europe has hated us all along, and considered us uncouth, uncultured hicks. 

So in essence we always have been an adversary, until they need us.

Until they need our money. And the blood of our young men.

I agree with both of you. 100%.

And from my perspective NATO saves us money and blood.

I agree that Europe needs to pay their own way but I am adamantly opposed to US isolationism and I am utterly opposed to facilitating Russian imperialism. This is a time-tested path to war.

I think further down the line...what happens when the EU defeats Russia and spans the breadth of Europe and Asia as the worlds' largest country and battle tested superpower? Who will be their closest peer? The USA.

I prefer keeping Europe on a short leash.

[DB]

Europe is drifting towards fascism. You comply with the government line or get crushed.

Disengaging Europe will likely only accelerate that.

Be careful what you wish for.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Europe is drifting towards fascism. You comply with the government line or get crushed.

Disengaging Europe will likely only accelerate that.

Be careful what you wish for.

Eh, a pox on both their houses, but at least Europe is democratic.

[DefiantMassRINO]

Europe is trending towards nationalism as a natural reaction to the Globalist policies enacted by unelected bureaucrats for the past 30 years.

Borders, language, and culture matter, especially when you ask those people to sacrifice blood and treasury for a Government that was chosen for them by elites.

Globalism has left out too many people and left too many people behind.  The benefits of Globalist policies flow up to mainly benefit international billionaire kleptocratic oligarch elites.

Globalism's rising tide has only lifted luxury yachts and inflatable rafts for cheap immigrant labor.

[roamer_1]

Europe is drifting towards fascism. You comply with the government line or get crushed.

Disengaging Europe will likely only accelerate that.

Be careful what you wish for.

That's right. Russia with no options means war. When the Ruble is without value and no attractive economic solutions preside, what will come is war. It's how it works.

... And what will rise in Europe to meet that? It is simple to see. Only one European system has the wherewithal historically... And that won't be Britain.

[MeganC]

That's right. Russia with no options means war. When the Ruble is without value and no attractive economic solutions preside, what will come is war. It's how it works.

... And what will rise in Europe to meet that? It is simple to see. Only one European system has the wherewithal historically... And that won't be Britain.

So we should bend to blackmail from Russia?

[libertybele]

That's right. Russia with no options means war. When the Ruble is without value and no attractive economic solutions preside, what will come is war. It's how it works.

... And what will rise in Europe to meet that? It is simple to see. Only one European system has the wherewithal historically... And that won't be Britain.

You're leaving out the large Muslim population in EU that is about 6% right now or 45,000,000 -- that's enough for an uprising which I see  as a real possibility. 

Just my opinion.

[Wingnut]

You're leaving out the large Muslim population in EU that is about 6% right now or 45,000,000 -- that's enough for an uprising which I see  as a real possibility. 

Just my opinion.

Wait till they reach 12%  All will be lost.   

[roamer_1]

So we should bend to blackmail from Russia?

I'm already on the record stating the whole damn thing ain't none of our business...
Foreign entanglements and all that.
We ain't world police.

The Rus people come from Kiev. That is the Russian heartland.
You ain't gonna win that fight, no matter which side you're on.

[roamer_1]

You're leaving out the large Muslim population in EU that is about 6% right now or 45,000,000 -- that's enough for an uprising which I see  as a real possibility. 

Just my opinion.

That's right. And not to be underestimated. But then, neither should one underestimate the Germans when faced with being overrun. It's gonna be a sh*t show.

[jafo2010]

Timber Rattler...

My plan is to give the Ukrainians whatever military, special operations, and intelligence assistance they need to defeat the Russians totally, once and for all, instead of Joe Biden's pell-mell "frozen front" non-escalation stupidity. 

You dwell in fantasy land.  Under no scenario does Ukraine have the ability to DEFEAT Russia.  They could be supplied with all the equipment they desire and they would not defeat Russia.  Taking Kursk was a smart action for a peace negotiation.  Russia will have to relinquish land seized in Ukraine for Ukraine to abandon the Kursk area.

I believe Trump can negotiate a peace, but Ukraine will end up giving up lands that were theirs prior to Russia attacking Ukraine.  And the fact is that despite Crimea being part of Ukraine, since 1991, Russia was granted five military bases located in Crimea.  Much of the people there supported those Russian military bases.  So in reality, Ukraine would be giving up I suspect 50% of the land seized by Russia on the eastern border with Russia.

While I would rather not see Russia gain anything, I think having peace for now would be better than the continued destruction of Ukraine.  Trump is right, thousands of young men on both sides are dying weekly, and this killing must end. 

I believe a peace with some land loss would be in the best interest of the Ukrainian people.  Subsequent to that peace, Ukraine can begin rebuilding their military forces to better defend their nation should Russia attack again.  The people of Ukraine want an end to the war too.  They are dying, and it appears it has been a stalemate for two years. 

Russia has a large enough population that they can continue with this war for years.  Their military equipment has been heavily depleted, but they can continue to wage war, now using the North Koreans to support them on the battlefield.

And I have listened to numerous folks talk about the economic collapse of Russia being imminent sometime this fall.  But I recently heard a woman claim just the opposite, that Russia was sound financially.

Frankly, for the dollars spent by this nation, Zelensky should be willing to give up all the mineral wealth for continued support by the USA.  But if Trump could negotiate an end of the war, and the USA can benefit with the mining of minerals, our presence in Ukraine would hinder further invasion by Russia.  Providing assurances to Zelensky is not necessary.  Zelensky is not an intelligent man to bite the hand feeding him.