Zelenskyy lashes out at Trump over suggestion Ukraine started war, should hold elections again

[GrouchoTex]

I think it likely that Putin is a thug and Zelinski is as corrupt as can be. Is there a rule that says both things can't be true?

Agree

[DB]

Agree

No evidence required. Whatever it takes to wash your hands of the situation.

[libertybele]

No evidence required. Whatever it takes to wash your hands of the situation.

It. Is. Not. Our. War.

[DB]

It. Is. Not. Our. War.

How convenient. Never mind the US was part of the agreement for Ukraine to give up its nukes in exchange for its security against Russian aggression.

[jafo2010]

It was not our war in China when the Japs attacked China, yet American aviators came to the aid of the Chinese to fight the Japs in the 30s, years before our entry into the war.  Aviators were encouraged to go by the US government.  It wasn't our war when Hitler was bombing Great Britain either, and yet again, Americans went to help Great Britain fight off the Nazis.

Russia is pure evil on this endeavor, and Trump's appeasement of Putin is far worse than anything Chamberlain did with Hitler.  FAR WORSE!!!

It is bad enough to suffer the idiocy of Wrecking Ball Joe, but to go through it again with Trump is unacceptable.  COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.

I was never a proponent of supporting Ukraine, but this making nice with Putin by Trump is abominable.  He is so good at having one aw-sh*t wipe out 1,000 that-a-boys.  No joke.

In a nation of 350 million people, why can't we get a quality leader, someone to be admired rather than idiots and completely amoral b*st*rds?

[verga]

Ukraine started Putin's War by making the mistake of giving up its nukes in the 1990s for security guarantees and a few billion dollars.

Let this be a lesson to all you nations with bullies for neighbors ... NEVER EVER EVER Give up your nukes.

@DefiantMassRINO True at the macro level, and just as true at the micro level. We need to take a lesson from England. give up your guns and you will we eventually be jailed for what you think. 

[IsailedawayfromFR]

A dead man walking as he disses the largest donor of aid to his country.

Must be a good reason Russia has not assassinated this global trotter yet, as he has given them ample opportunities to do so if he was really that important to Ukraine winning.

[Timber Rattler]

A dead man walking as he disses the largest donor of aid to his country.

That largest donor of aid to his country just tried to rob him blind with absolutely nothing in return.  It's kinda like looting a severely wounded soldier on a battlefield.  So Trump is proving to be no better than Putin.

[Hoodat]

It. Is. Not. Our. War.

Then why the need to slander Zelenskiy with zero evidence?  I understand the isolationist argument.  But that's not the argument that is being offered, which is, "The US should turn its back to Ukraine because Zelenskiy is corrupt and because he started the war."

[Hoodat]

A dead man walking as he disses the largest donor of aid to his country.

The biggest recipients of Ukraine aid (well over 50%) were agencies like USAID and their associated NGOs.

[libertybele]

Then why the need to slander Zelenskiy with zero evidence?  I understand the isolationist argument.  But that's not the argument that is being offered, which is, "The US should turn its back to Ukraine because Zelenskiy is corrupt and because he started the war."

My take; who knows what Joe offered or promised Z and Z is pizzed that he didn't get what was offered.  That is not Trump's fault...and as the old phrase goes; never bite the hand that feeds you.  Quite simple.

[DB]

My take; who knows what Joe offered or promised Z and Z is pizzed that he didn't get what was offered.  That is not Trump's fault...and as the old phrase goes; never bite the hand that feeds you.  Quite simple.

Just making shit up doesn't suite you.

And what kind of sick mind would punish the hundreds of thousands of people who are fighting and dying to keep Russia out of their country simply because the President of the US feels dissed by their leader? What kind of petty crap is that?

[Timber Rattler]

Just making shit up doesn't suite you.

And what kind of sick mind would punish the hundreds of thousands of people who are fighting and dying to keep Russia out of their country simply because the President of the US feels dissed by their leader? What kind of petty crap is that?

 

[GtHawk]

Just making shit up doesn't suite you.

And what kind of sick mind would punish the hundreds of thousands of people who are fighting and dying to keep Russia out of their country simply because the President of the US feels dissed by their leader? What kind of petty crap is that?

Hmmmm, the same kind that ran out on Hungary, or the kind that ran out on the South Vietnamese that were fighting against the north and the Chicoms? America has a history of running out on…. I am not defending it now and it was wrong then, I am just pointing out it’s been done before and I don’t recall anyone in the past being called a sick bastard.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

That largest donor of aid to his country just tried to rob him blind with absolutely nothing in return.  It's kinda like looting a severely wounded soldier on a battlefield.  So Trump is proving to be no better than Putin.

?

What has he given in return for the $$ and weaponry we gave him?

Trump already has staked out that foreign aid will not be without strings attached, such as being a loan or, in this case, access to resources we could use.

Zelensky is mad to not take up the offer as our stake in the country's resources would guarantee an American presence on site to safeguard our 'investment' and to counter the Russian intrusion.

[Canuck Conservative]

BTW, the US is getting something in return for all those billions sent to Ukraine.

They're getting to see one of their most malicious enemies - Russia - in military action, they can watch the battlefield tactics and monitor the intel during wartime combat to see the Russian military's actual strengths and weaknesses.

Plus, the US also gets to try out their weapons under real-world battle conditions .. something almost impossible to simulate in peacetime.

All this, and it doesn't cost one American soldier's life!

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Kinda conflicted about this one... Trump should STFU because Zelensky is up against, fighting for survival, along with the Ukraine. On the other hand, I don't think elections are unreasonable, we did it during the Civil War.

[libertybele]

Just making shit up doesn't suite you.

And what kind of sick mind would punish the hundreds of thousands of people who are fighting and dying to keep Russia out of their country simply because the President of the US feels dissed by their leader? What kind of petty crap is that?

Wow -- get excited much?  I didn't make anything up.  I voiced my opinion.     Pure and simple.  Who said anything about Trump punishing people who are fighting and dying to keep Russia out of the country?? Russians are dying too!  Let's not forget that.   Do you think if Russia completely withdrew that Ukraine would then go quietly into the night???

Ask yourself; what do you think Z wants the U.S. to do to resolve this war?  Demand Russia do what exactly?  What do you think Putin wants the U.S. to demand of Ukraine to resolve this conflict??    Z throwing a hissy fit accomplishes absolutely nothing.

How much further do think that the U.S. should get involved???   Boots on the ground in Ukraine??  Boots on the ground in Russia?? 

Peace on both sides would be wonderful but unfortunately right now that looks like a distant pipe dream. Even if a treaty were reached, how long do you think it would last?  History shows again and again; conflicts between the two countries. 

[libertybele]

Kinda conflicted about this one... Trump should STFU because Zelensky is up against, fighting for survival, along with the Ukraine. On the other hand, I don't think elections are unreasonable, we did it during the Civil War.

So .... Z wants our assistance in containing Putin, more aid, and certainly complaining about what the U.S. has given him already, but Trump is the one who should STFU??   So Trump should just give Z whatever he asks for??  NO!!!

[DB]

Kinda conflicted about this one... Trump should STFU because Zelensky is up against, fighting for survival, along with the Ukraine. On the other hand, I don't think elections are unreasonable, we did it during the Civil War.

Well sort of. The confederate states got no vote.

The UK cancelled elections in 1940 because of WW2.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

BTW, the US is getting something in return for all those billions sent to Ukraine.

They're getting to see one of their most malicious enemies - Russia - in military action, they can watch the battlefield tactics and monitor the intel during wartime combat to see the Russian military's actual strengths and weaknesses.

Plus, the US also gets to try out their weapons under real-world battle conditions .. something almost impossible to simulate in peacetime.

All this, and it doesn't cost one American soldier's life!

That's an argument used since WW2, as long as your last line is a solid one.

But remember, Russia is not what it used to be, and the stronger nation of China is also watching intently for weaknesses on both sides.

[Timber Rattler]

?

What has he given in return for the $$ and weaponry we gave him?

Trump already has staked out that foreign aid will not be without strings attached, such as being a loan or, in this case, access to resources we could use.

Zelensky is mad to not take up the offer as our stake in the country's resources would guarantee an American presence on site to safeguard our 'investment' and to counter the Russian intrusion.

From the State Department:

https://www.state.gov/bureau-of-political-military-affairs/releases/2025/01/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine#:~:text=To%20date%2C%20we%20have%20provided,invasion%20of%20Ukraine%20in%202014.

To date, we have provided $65.9 billion in military assistance since Russia launched its premeditated, unprovoked, and brutal full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022, and approximately $69.2 billion in military assistance since Russia’s initial invasion of Ukraine in 2014. We have now used the emergency Presidential Drawdown Authority on 55 occasions since August 2021 to provide Ukraine military assistance totaling approximately $27.688 billion from DoD stockpiles.

Trump's demand:

Trump's $500 billion Ukraine payback exceeds German war reparations: Report

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/donald-trump-ukraine-rare-earth-minerals-zelenskyy-ukraine-war-vladimir-putin-russia-peace-negotiations-2681622-2025-02-18

So how, pray tell, is that NOT highway robbery?

[libertybele]

That's an argument used since WW2, as long as your last line is a solid one.

But remember, Russia is not what it used to be, and the stronger nation of China is also watching intently for weaknesses on both sides.

Yes, China is watching and is a huge concern and I think Trump realizes this.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

From the State Department:

https://www.state.gov/bureau-of-political-military-affairs/releases/2025/01/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine#:~:text=To%20date%2C%20we%20have%20provided,invasion%20of%20Ukraine%20in%202014.

Trump's demand:

Trump's $500 billion Ukraine payback exceeds German war reparations: Report

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/donald-trump-ukraine-rare-earth-minerals-zelenskyy-ukraine-war-vladimir-putin-russia-peace-negotiations-2681622-2025-02-18

So how, pray tell, is that NOT highway robbery?

Do you know how to negotiate?

Do you always accept window price on a car?

[Timber Rattler]

Who said anything about Trump punishing people who are fighting and dying to keep Russia out of the country??

Well you did, for one, by essentially demanding total unconditional surrender by the Ukrainians to the Russians.

Russians are dying too!  Let's not forget that.

   

So whose fault is that?  Vladimir Putin's

Do you think if Russia completely withdrew that Ukraine would then go quietly into the night???

Oh, you think the Ukrainians would turn around and attack Russia after its troops withdrew?  Really?