Author Topic: Zelenskyy lashes out at Trump over suggestion Ukraine started war, should hold elections again  (Read 10142 times)

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Offline Kamaji

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??? Trump selling out Ukraine to Putin???  Gee, what would Z do without U.S. aid?

Zelenskyy imposed martial law awhile ago which has prevented Ukranians from another election.  As a result he likely will remain in place until this particular conflict between Russia and Ukraine is resolved.   Just sayin'.

:bigsilly:

Offline libertybele

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It's your credibility that is suffering here, not mine.

Some have even accused me of being a Putin lover -- imagine that.    :thud:

Offline DB

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Some have even accused me of being a Putin lover -- imagine that.    :thud:

You have offered no verifiable evidence Z is getting rich off the war to date but you keep asserting that is a fact and that you know it to be so from your "feelings".

I'm open to evidence, but a feeling isn't good enough.

And here's a little tidbit for you. Churchill was elected in 1935 and the election of 1940 was cancelled - because of WW2. Did that make Churchill a "dictator" because parliament canceled the election during the war.

Offline Hoodat

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For those who have forgotten, Trump's issue with Zelenskiy isn't because the Ukrainian President is corrupt.  Trump's issue is that Zelenskiy refused to be corrupt.  When Trump urged Zelenskiy to hire a certain prosecutor, Zelenskiy declined.  In other words, he wasn't going to sell out to the US leader like his predecessor did.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Some have even accused me of being a Putin lover -- imagine that.    :thud:

This statement doesn't have a single thing to do with your utter inability to back up the claims you've made against Zelenskiy's character.   As for accusations you've faced, I've never seen you as a Putin lover.  But good luck with that.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline mystery-ak

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Offline DB

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Some have even accused me of being a Putin lover -- imagine that.    :thud:

And to add to that, the UK passed the emergency powers act in 1939 - essentially martial law - to fight for its survival.

Offline libertybele

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You have offered no verifiable evidence Z is getting rich off the war to date but you keep asserting that is a fact and that you know it to be so from your "feelings".

I'm open to evidence, but a feeling isn't good enough.

And here's a little tidbit for you. Churchill was elected in 1935 and the election of 1940 was cancelled - because of WW2. Did that make Churchill a "dictator" because parliament canceled the election during the war.

So prove that Z hasn't gotten rich off the war or prove he has suffered financially off the war....we can't.

I haven't called Z a dictator, all I mentioned was that there can't be another election until the Ukraine Parliament lifts martial law. There's been quite a bit of noise about Z not being popular; it all depends on what news source you read and the flavor of the day.

A lot of propaganda out there.

At any rate:

What are the problems with holding elections?

.............Firstly there are legal issues. Martial law would need to be lifted or changes made to the law to allow for elections under it. The other problems are logistical. About one million Ukrainians are engaged in fighting Russia far from home. Earlier this month Zelensky said: “If we suspend martial law we will lose the army, and voting without the military is dishonest.” Millions more are displaced from their homes, both within Ukraine and abroad. And up to six million more live in the territories that Russia has occupied since 2014 and again from 2022..........

https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/zelensky-election-approval-rating-martial-law-3z2fdhnz9

Offline Kamaji

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Some have even accused me of being a Putin lover -- imagine that.    :thud:


If the shoe fits ……

Offline libertybele

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Offline Hoodat

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Wall Street Apes
@WallStreetApes
It’s official: Elon Musk says US politicians are receiving “kickbacks” from Ukraine funding

Matt Gaetz said the exact same thing. The Ukraine War is “to launder money through”

Congress reps are literally, STEALING YOUR MONEY disguised as ‘war funding’


And after stealing your money, they've made Zelenskiy the scapegoat.  Over $100 billion that never made it to Ukraine.  Yet there are posters here insisting that this is somehow Zelenskiy's fault.

Keep it up, people.  Keep making Zelenskiy the bad guy, while Samantha Power and her ilk retire on their taxpayer funded nest eggs.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Congress Reps stealing our money through war funding?  Imagine that!

Been telling you that for three years now.  Yet you still keep saying Zelenskiy is the corrupt one.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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So prove that Z hasn't gotten rich off the war or prove he has suffered financially off the war....we can't.

For the umpteenth time, one can't prove a negative.  The burden of proof falls on you.  YOU are the one making the claim.  YOU are the one who needs to back it up.  How many times do we need to go over this?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-


Offline libertybele

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Been telling you that for three years now.  Yet you still keep saying Zelenskiy is the corrupt one.

 *****rollingeyes***** Actually that's not exactly a newsflash and  long ago I posted many articles with timelines and links connecting that dots that Brandon & Company had their hands in the cookie jar -- also during Poroshenko's rule. As far as corruption; I just don't believe Z is completely innocent.

Offline Hoodat

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As far as corruption; I just don't believe Z is completely innocent.

Again, your basis.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline libertybele

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Again, your basis.

Again, as I have stated numerous times -- my "OPINION".  Again, what is your basis that Z is completely innocent?

We could ping-pong this back and forth -- but no thank you.  tipping hat!!

Offline mystery-ak

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Mike Pence Trashes Trump Again – Scolds President Trump For Calling Out “Dictator” Zelensky

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/02/mike-pence-trashes-trump-again-scolds-president-trump/
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Offline Hoodat

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Again, as I have stated numerous times -- my "OPINION".  Again, what is your basis that Z is completely innocent?

We could ping-pong this back and forth -- but no thank you.  tipping hat!!

I never made the claim that Zelenskiy is completely innocent.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline libertybele

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I never made the claim that Zelenskiy is completely innocent.

Ok @Hoodat   :beer:

Offline Hoodat

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Who Started the War in Ukraine? The Answer Hasn’t Changed

Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and escalated to a full-scale war in 2022. With Russian troops advancing on Ukrainian soil and Russian missiles striking Ukrainian civilian infrastructure, it would be absurd to even ask this question. Yet in 2025, U.S. President Trump started “echoing Russian disinformation,” by pointing the finger at Kyiv for Russia’s war in Ukraine.

Jess Daly  |  Feb 19, 2025  |  21:58


Russia's war-for almost 11 years-has been inside Ukraine’s borders. Until 2024, Ukraine was only able to deploy its defense forces on its own soil, in response to Russia’s invasion. UNITED24 Media will examine how Moscow started this brutal war in its attempt to eliminate Ukraine.

US President Trump blamed Ukraine for its war with Russia. “You should have never started it, you could have made a deal,” Trump said during a press conference at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Palm Beach, Florida, on February 18.

Since the newly elected Trump has been in office, there has been a political shift towards Russia after years of US and NATO Allies' efforts to isolate their leader, Vladimir Putin.

The US and Russia have had closed-door discussions without the presence of Ukraine or Europe, which Ukrainian President Zelenskyy and his European Allies vocally disapprove of.

Zelenskyy expressed concern that Trump “lives in a disinformation bubble,” attributing this to narratives spread by Russia.

When did Russia start the war in Ukraine?

Russia started the war in Ukraine in February 2014 by illegally attempting to annex Crimea, and then invading and occupying parts of the Donbas and Luhansk regions of Ukraine. In 2022, it escalated its aggression with a full-scale invasion  .  .  .

https://united24media.com/war-in-ukraine/who-started-the-war-in-ukraine-the-answer-hasnt-changed-6043
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline DCPatriot

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Mike Pence Trashes Trump Again – Scolds President Trump For Calling Out “Dictator” Zelensky

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/02/mike-pence-trashes-trump-again-scolds-president-trump/

Fact is that Zelensky was a party on that phone call where a quid pro quo was claimed, ending up in a bullsh*t Impeachment.

He could have stepped forward at anytime to refute the false charge.  He DIDN'T!!

So...why should President Trump trust this man now?

Dan Bongino covered this at length today during his first hour. 

Ukraine cannot win this war.  Time for a solution because both Russia and Ukraine are losing their nation's treasure in the form of young men.

Not going to pretend I'm an expert on this topic.  I'll leave that to others here.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Right after you prove that you didn't donate money to Joe Biden in the last two Presidential elections.

I know you're trying desperately to be clever with this statement, and I give you credit for the effort, but you really missed the mark.

The article @Timber Rattler was responding to includes specific allegations.  All TR, or you, have to do is prove the allegations are wrong.  For example, prove the press in Ukraine is still a diverse, robust industry and has not been changed by the Zelensky regime into a closed, state-run arm of the government. Show how the churches of the religious denominations disbanded by Zelensky are still open and freely operating.  Prove the political parties shut down by the Zelensky regime are still open, functioning and engaged in Ukraine politics.  ------

But, at least read the article.


Offline Hoodat

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I know you're trying desperately to be clever with this statement, and I give you credit for the effort, but you really missed the mark.

The article @Timber Rattler was responding to includes specific allegations.  All TR, or you, have to do is prove the allegations are wrong.

I'm making a specific allegation against you - that you donated to Joe Biden's presidential campaign in 2020 and Kamala Harris' campaign in 2024.  All you have to do is prove the allegations are wrong.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline libertybele

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Fact is that Zelensky was a party on that phone call where a quid pro quo was claimed, ending up in a bullsh*t Impeachment.

He could have stepped forward at anytime to refute the false charge.  He DIDN'T!!

So...why should President Trump trust this man now?


Dan Bongino covered this at length today during his first hour. 

Ukraine cannot win this war.  Time for a solution because both Russia and Ukraine are losing their nation's treasure in the form of young men.

Not going to pretend I'm an expert on this topic.  I'll leave that to others here.


Interesting.  I'm a fan of Bongino's and I'll have to listen to the broadcast that you're referring to.

Thanks for the post.

Offline Hoodat

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Fact is that Zelensky was a party on that phone call where a quid pro quo was claimed, ending up in a bullsh*t Impeachment.

He could have stepped forward at anytime to refute the false charge.  He DIDN'T!!


The phone call itself refuted the charge.  There was nothing else for Zelenskiy to say.  His voice was on the call.


So...why should President Trump trust this man now?

Because he has integrity.  When pressured by a foreign leader to appoint government officials based not on what was best for Ukraine, but what's best for that influential foreign leader, he refused.

Dan Bongino covered this at length today during his first hour.  Ukraine cannot win this war.  Time for a solution because both Russia and Ukraine are losing their nation's treasure in the form of young men.

Not going to pretend I'm an expert on this topic.  I'll leave that to others here.



Dan Bongino covered this at length today during his first hour.  Ukraine cannot win this war.

I do not share Bongino's opinion here.  And I especially do not agree with his assessment that they somehow should have performed better than they are.  It was like telling the Jews that they had three years to overthrow German Nazis but couldn't get it done, so we shouldn't help them.  Not that it's even a matter of helping them from a monetary standpoint.  It costs no money to call out Russia for being barbaric war criminals who should be cut off from the civilized economy.  Trump had a chance to take the moral high ground here, but chose to blame the Jews for the Holocaust instead.


Time for a solution because both Russia and Ukraine are losing their nation's treasure in the form of young men.

There is but one 'solution'.  Russia needs to end their war of aggression against the Ukrainian people and get their troops the hell out of Ukraine.  Do that, and the war ends today.  There is no other path.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Kamaji

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The phone call itself refuted the charge.  There was nothing else for Zelenskiy to say.  His voice was on the call.


Because he has integrity.  When pressured by a foreign leader to appoint government officials based not on what was best for Ukraine, but what's best for that influential foreign leader, he refused.


I do not share Bongino's opinion here.  And I especially do not agree with his assessment that they somehow should have performed better than they are.  It was like telling the Jews that they had three years to overthrow German Nazis but couldn't get it done, so we shouldn't help them.  Not that it's even a matter of helping them from a monetary standpoint.  It costs no money to call out Russia for being barbaric war criminals who should be cut off from the civilized economy.  Trump had a chance to take the moral high ground here, but chose to blame the Jews for the Holocaust instead.


There is but one 'solution'.  Russia needs to end their war of aggression against the Ukrainian people and get their troops the hell out of Ukraine.  Do that, and the war ends today.  There is no other path.

:thumbsup:

Offline Timber Rattler

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Mike Pence Trashes Trump Again – Scolds President Trump For Calling Out “Dictator” Zelensky

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/02/mike-pence-trashes-trump-again-scolds-president-trump/

Mike Pence is 100% correct.   :pootrump:
« Last Edit: February 20, 2025, 07:04:13 am by Timber Rattler »
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," "psychopathic POS," "depraved SOB," "Never Trump Moron," "Lazarus," and "sock puppet."

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."  ---George Orwell

Offline Timber Rattler

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Fact is that Zelensky was a party on that phone call where a quid pro quo was claimed, ending up in a bullsh*t Impeachment.

A call initiated by Trump to threaten and cajole him into providing dirt on Biden.  Trump's big mouth got him into trouble again.  Not Zelensky's fault.

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He could have stepped forward at anytime to refute the false charge.  He DIDN'T!!

As president of a foreign country, it was not Zelensky's job to get involved in a particularly messy U.S. election, at Trump's behest.

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So...why should President Trump trust this man now?

Heh, why is any foreign leader obligated to trust Trump now on anything?

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Dan Bongino covered this at length today during his first hour.


Bongino's swallowed the same Putin propaganda poison that Tucker Carlson swallowed.

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Ukraine cannot win this war.

Not true.


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Time for a solution because both Russia and Ukraine are losing their nation's treasure in the form of young men.

Another euphemism for forcing Ukraine to surrender unconditionally to the Russians and lose its sovereignty.  Now imagine if George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Winston Churchill had uttered such words and surrendered.  Conservatives use to stand for freedom and liberty throughout the world, and standing up to tyrants and murderous ideologies, as eloquently expressed by Reagan.  But now, all I'm seeing from our "side" of the aisle is that we must acquiesce to Putin and Russia, let Putin swallow up Ukraine and any other neighboring country and territory, including Alaska in the end, while kissing Trump's arse in the process!  (spit!)

Quote
Not going to pretend I'm an expert on this topic.  I'll leave that to others here.

No, you're not.  You have no clue as to what you're talking about.  Period.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2025, 04:50:49 am by Timber Rattler »
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," "psychopathic POS," "depraved SOB," "Never Trump Moron," "Lazarus," and "sock puppet."

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."  ---George Orwell

Offline jafo2010

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Trump and his big mouth are intending what exactly?

Putin has been a thug since the 1st day he came to leadership.  He has never had good intentions toward any people, including the Russian people.  The death of hundreds of thousands of Russians and Ukrainians means absolutely nothing to him.

While I believe this war should come to an end, I do not believe it should be negotiated between the USA and Russia exclusively and absent Ukrainian representation.  Not a good strategy.  Trump's bull in the china shop strategy will not work here.  My way or the highway.

Diplomacy is still something not in Trump's bag of tricks.  How unfortunate for the Ukrainians.  And what is he offering the Russians to sign a peace treaty?  What will it cost the USA taxpayer?  All this is doing is once again reinforcing for the world that the USA cannot be trusted.  Brravo!!

Offline Timber Rattler

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Trump and his big mouth are intending what exactly?

Putin has been a thug since the 1st day he came to leadership.  He has never had good intentions toward any people, including the Russian people.  The death of hundreds of thousands of Russians and Ukrainians means absolutely nothing to him.

While I believe this war should come to an end, I do not believe it should be negotiated between the USA and Russia exclusively and absent Ukrainian representation.  Not a good strategy.  Trump's bull in the china shop strategy will not work here.  My way or the highway.

Diplomacy is still something not in Trump's bag of tricks.  How unfortunate for the Ukrainians.  And what is he offering the Russians to sign a peace treaty?  What will it cost the USA taxpayer?  All this is doing is once again reinforcing for the world that the USA cannot be trusted.  Brravo!!

 :bingo: goopo
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," "psychopathic POS," "depraved SOB," "Never Trump Moron," "Lazarus," and "sock puppet."

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."  ---George Orwell

Offline verga

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Well, it IS Zelensky's country that Trump is selling out to Putin.
How much has he profited from us, how many millions(?) of dollars has he personally stashed away? The best thing he can do is STFU and STFD!
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline verga

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Trump's a moron when it comes to foreign policy.
As opposed to Biden who allowed this "minor incursion". Biden had 4 years all he did was hand Z billions of dollars.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline Timber Rattler

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How much has he profited from us, how many millions(?) of dollars has he personally stashed away? The best thing he can do is STFU and STFD!

I don't see how he has profited at all or stashed anything away.  NOBODY has offered one shred of hard evidence that he has done anything corrupt while fighting for his country's existence.
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," "psychopathic POS," "depraved SOB," "Never Trump Moron," "Lazarus," and "sock puppet."

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."  ---George Orwell

Offline Timber Rattler

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As opposed to Biden who allowed this "minor incursion". Biden had 4 years all he did was hand Z billions of dollars.

I never said that Biden wasn't a moron either.  And Biden apparently didn't hand Zelensky billions of dollars anyway but siphoned it all off before any of the aid got to Kyiv.  But I guess you missed that news.
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Offline verga

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I never said that Biden wasn't a moron either.  And Biden apparently didn't hand Zelensky billions of dollars anyway but siphoned it all off before any of the aid got to Kyiv.  But I guess you missed that news.
Didn't miss it, just don't buy it.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
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Offline catfish1957

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As opposed to Biden who allowed this "minor incursion". Biden had 4 years all he did was hand Z billions of dollars.

I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Smokin Joe

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There goes that bull in the China shop again.  Good God.
Yep. Like it or not, Biden's disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and okaying 'minor border incursions' led to this war. Nut there is more to this than that. The Donbas is rich in mineral wealth and while there are 'goodies' elsewhere in Ukraine, the peaches are mainly on the east side of that pie. It is evident that Putin's forces were trying to seize the port cities in toto, to land lock the rest of Ukraine, which would control trade, and ultimately, the whole country.
This was a war of material acquisition, of the taking of resources, first and foremost, and perpetrated by Russia. Should any part of Ukraine be given to Russia?
No.
Zeleneskey has been doing what any president would do, fighting back. The Ukrainians have changed the face of modern warfare in this conflict.

As for any aid provided by the US, the question is one of what aid, in what form, from whom, and in what measure has Ukraine actually received? , and, for that matter how much went missing from whose direct control. We know Poroshenko got his grift, How much, if any has Z gotten, and was playing the kickback game with the previous regime just the cost of doing bid'ness? If corruption is a problem, pray tell, who got the money?
My bet is that money never went 'feet wet' over the Atlantic.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

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Offline Bigun

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Trump and his big mouth are intending what exactly?

Putin has been a thug since the 1st day he came to leadership.  He has never had good intentions toward any people, including the Russian people.  The death of hundreds of thousands of Russians and Ukrainians means absolutely nothing to him.

While I believe this war should come to an end, I do not believe it should be negotiated between the USA and Russia exclusively and absent Ukrainian representation.  Not a good strategy.  Trump's bull in the china shop strategy will not work here.  My way or the highway.

Diplomacy is still something not in Trump's bag of tricks.  How unfortunate for the Ukrainians.  And what is he offering the Russians to sign a peace treaty?  What will it cost the USA taxpayer?  All this is doing is once again reinforcing for the world that the USA cannot be trusted.  Brravo!!

I think it likely that Putin is a thug and Zelinski is as corrupt as can be. Is there a rule that says both things can't be true?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline DB

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Some people are simply seeking a way to sooth their conscience to walk away. Anything to justify not helping due to some claimed cost. A minor cost compared to the cost to the people who are being utterly destroyed.

Offline Bigun

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I don't see how he has profited at all or stashed anything away.  NOBODY has offered one shred of hard evidence that he has done anything corrupt while fighting for his country's existence.

You will never see what you fail to look for!



"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline DB

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I think it likely that Putin is a thug and Zelinski is as corrupt as can be. Is there a rule that says both things can't be true?

We have lots of evidence of the first. I've seen no actual evidence of the latter. What good is wealth if you are either dead or have to live in a cave to avoid assassination by Putin?

Offline DB

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You will never see what you fail to look for!



Lots of people have looked for it - particularly his enemies. The best BS they came up with was he bought a yacht and his wife did lavish spending trips in Europe that were easily debunked.

Offline Bigun

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Lots of people have looked for it - particularly his enemies. The best BS they came up with was he bought a yacht and his wife did lavish spending trips in Europe that were easily debunked.

The beltway establishment (both sides) has used Zelinski as a U.S. treasury ATM and don't want to stop. If you truly believe that Zelinski didn't get a piece of that action for himself you are vastly more naive than I ever imagined @DB
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline DB

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The beltway establishment (both sides) has used Zelinski as a U.S. treasury ATM and don't want to stop. If you truly believe that Zelinski didn't get a piece of that action for himself you are vastly more naive than I ever imagined @DB

I try hard not to bare false witness against those I have no evidence of them being guilty of. If there is solid evidence to condemn him, my opinion would change on a dime. I see him in a very tough situation that he could have easily walked away from keeping his already vast wealth.

If that makes me the fool, then so be it.

Offline The_Reader_David

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So according to Pres. Trump's logic,

Every time a home invasion happens, it's the home-owner's fault, because he didn't negotiate peacefully with the criminals and give in to their demands ...

Got it.

 :thumbsup:

Good analogy.  Can any one find an example at any time in world history in which the country that was invaded at the start of a war was the one that started the war?  I'd be interested in having one.  And no, a Serbian anarchist not acting on behalf of the Serbian government assassinating Archduke Ferdinand, and Serbia getting invaded as a result does not count.  I'm looking for an example in which the government of the invaded country started the war.
And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know what this was all about.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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So according to Pres. Trump's logic,

Every time a home invasion happens, it's the home-owner's fault, because he didn't negotiate peacefully with the criminals and give in to their demands ...

Were the criminals willing to negotiate?

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Ukraine started Putin's War by making the mistake of giving up its nukes in the 1990s for security guarantees and a few billion dollars.

Let this be a lesson to all you nations with bullies for neighbors ... NEVER EVER EVER Give up your nukes.
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Offline Canuck Conservative

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Were the criminals willing to negotiate?

Sure, as long as you surrender everything, they're willing to "negotiate"

FreeRussia is controlled by a small group of anti-free-speech Nazis - no wonder its donations are down!!

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Sure, as long as you surrender everything, they're willing to "negotiate"

Why do you have anything to do with the terms of the negotiations between the home owner and the criminal?