Zelenskyy lashes out at Trump over suggestion Ukraine started war, should hold elections again

[GrouchoTex]

I think it likely that Putin is a thug and Zelinski is as corrupt as can be. Is there a rule that says both things can't be true?

Agree

[DB]

Agree

No evidence required. Whatever it takes to wash your hands of the situation.

[libertybele]

No evidence required. Whatever it takes to wash your hands of the situation.

It. Is. Not. Our. War.

[DB]

It. Is. Not. Our. War.

How convenient. Never mind the US was part of the agreement for Ukraine to give up its nukes in exchange for its security against Russian aggression.

[jafo2010]

It was not our war in China when the Japs attacked China, yet American aviators came to the aid of the Chinese to fight the Japs in the 30s, years before our entry into the war.  Aviators were encouraged to go by the US government.  It wasn't our war when Hitler was bombing Great Britain either, and yet again, Americans went to help Great Britain fight off the Nazis.

Russia is pure evil on this endeavor, and Trump's appeasement of Putin is far worse than anything Chamberlain did with Hitler.  FAR WORSE!!!

It is bad enough to suffer the idiocy of Wrecking Ball Joe, but to go through it again with Trump is unacceptable.  COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.

I was never a proponent of supporting Ukraine, but this making nice with Putin by Trump is abominable.  He is so good at having one aw-sh*t wipe out 1,000 that-a-boys.  No joke.

In a nation of 350 million people, why can't we get a quality leader, someone to be admired rather than idiots and completely amoral b*st*rds?

[verga]

Ukraine started Putin's War by making the mistake of giving up its nukes in the 1990s for security guarantees and a few billion dollars.

Let this be a lesson to all you nations with bullies for neighbors ... NEVER EVER EVER Give up your nukes.

@DefiantMassRINO True at the macro level, and just as true at the micro level. We need to take a lesson from England. give up your guns and you will we eventually be jailed for what you think. 

[IsailedawayfromFR]

A dead man walking as he disses the largest donor of aid to his country.

Must be a good reason Russia has not assassinated this global trotter yet, as he has given them ample opportunities to do so if he was really that important to Ukraine winning.

[Timber Rattler]

A dead man walking as he disses the largest donor of aid to his country.

That largest donor of aid to his country just tried to rob him blind with absolutely nothing in return.  It's kinda like looting a severely wounded soldier on a battlefield.  So Trump is proving to be no better than Putin.

[Hoodat]

It. Is. Not. Our. War.

Then why the need to slander Zelenskiy with zero evidence?  I understand the isolationist argument.  But that's not the argument that is being offered, which is, "The US should turn its back to Ukraine because Zelenskiy is corrupt and because he started the war."

[Hoodat]

A dead man walking as he disses the largest donor of aid to his country.

The biggest recipients of Ukraine aid (well over 50%) were agencies like USAID and their associated NGOs.

[libertybele]

Then why the need to slander Zelenskiy with zero evidence?  I understand the isolationist argument.  But that's not the argument that is being offered, which is, "The US should turn its back to Ukraine because Zelenskiy is corrupt and because he started the war."

My take; who knows what Joe offered or promised Z and Z is pizzed that he didn't get what was offered.  That is not Trump's fault...and as the old phrase goes; never bite the hand that feeds you.  Quite simple.

[DB]

My take; who knows what Joe offered or promised Z and Z is pizzed that he didn't get what was offered.  That is not Trump's fault...and as the old phrase goes; never bite the hand that feeds you.  Quite simple.

Just making shit up doesn't suite you.

And what kind of sick mind would punish the hundreds of thousands of people who are fighting and dying to keep Russia out of their country simply because the President of the US feels dissed by their leader? What kind of petty crap is that?

[Timber Rattler]

Just making shit up doesn't suite you.

And what kind of sick mind would punish the hundreds of thousands of people who are fighting and dying to keep Russia out of their country simply because the President of the US feels dissed by their leader? What kind of petty crap is that?

 

[GtHawk]

Just making shit up doesn't suite you.

And what kind of sick mind would punish the hundreds of thousands of people who are fighting and dying to keep Russia out of their country simply because the President of the US feels dissed by their leader? What kind of petty crap is that?

Hmmmm, the same kind that ran out on Hungary, or the kind that ran out on the South Vietnamese that were fighting against the north and the Chicoms? America has a history of running out on…. I am not defending it now and it was wrong then, I am just pointing out it’s been done before and I don’t recall anyone in the past being called a sick bastard.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

That largest donor of aid to his country just tried to rob him blind with absolutely nothing in return.  It's kinda like looting a severely wounded soldier on a battlefield.  So Trump is proving to be no better than Putin.

?

What has he given in return for the $$ and weaponry we gave him?

Trump already has staked out that foreign aid will not be without strings attached, such as being a loan or, in this case, access to resources we could use.

Zelensky is mad to not take up the offer as our stake in the country's resources would guarantee an American presence on site to safeguard our 'investment' and to counter the Russian intrusion.

[Canuck Conservative]

BTW, the US is getting something in return for all those billions sent to Ukraine.

They're getting to see one of their most malicious enemies - Russia - in military action, they can watch the battlefield tactics and monitor the intel during wartime combat to see the Russian military's actual strengths and weaknesses.

Plus, the US also gets to try out their weapons under real-world battle conditions .. something almost impossible to simulate in peacetime.

All this, and it doesn't cost one American soldier's life!

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Kinda conflicted about this one... Trump should STFU because Zelensky is up against, fighting for survival, along with the Ukraine. On the other hand, I don't think elections are unreasonable, we did it during the Civil War.

[libertybele]

Just making shit up doesn't suite you.

And what kind of sick mind would punish the hundreds of thousands of people who are fighting and dying to keep Russia out of their country simply because the President of the US feels dissed by their leader? What kind of petty crap is that?

Wow -- get excited much?  I didn't make anything up.  I voiced my opinion.     Pure and simple.  Who said anything about Trump punishing people who are fighting and dying to keep Russia out of the country?? Russians are dying too!  Let's not forget that.   Do you think if Russia completely withdrew that Ukraine would then go quietly into the night???

Ask yourself; what do you think Z wants the U.S. to do to resolve this war?  Demand Russia do what exactly?  What do you think Putin wants the U.S. to demand of Ukraine to resolve this conflict??    Z throwing a hissy fit accomplishes absolutely nothing.

How much further do think that the U.S. should get involved???   Boots on the ground in Ukraine??  Boots on the ground in Russia?? 

Peace on both sides would be wonderful but unfortunately right now that looks like a distant pipe dream. Even if a treaty were reached, how long do you think it would last?  History shows again and again; conflicts between the two countries. 

[libertybele]

Kinda conflicted about this one... Trump should STFU because Zelensky is up against, fighting for survival, along with the Ukraine. On the other hand, I don't think elections are unreasonable, we did it during the Civil War.

So .... Z wants our assistance in containing Putin, more aid, and certainly complaining about what the U.S. has given him already, but Trump is the one who should STFU??   So Trump should just give Z whatever he asks for??  NO!!!

[DB]

Kinda conflicted about this one... Trump should STFU because Zelensky is up against, fighting for survival, along with the Ukraine. On the other hand, I don't think elections are unreasonable, we did it during the Civil War.

Well sort of. The confederate states got no vote.

The UK cancelled elections in 1940 because of WW2.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

BTW, the US is getting something in return for all those billions sent to Ukraine.

They're getting to see one of their most malicious enemies - Russia - in military action, they can watch the battlefield tactics and monitor the intel during wartime combat to see the Russian military's actual strengths and weaknesses.

Plus, the US also gets to try out their weapons under real-world battle conditions .. something almost impossible to simulate in peacetime.

All this, and it doesn't cost one American soldier's life!

That's an argument used since WW2, as long as your last line is a solid one.

But remember, Russia is not what it used to be, and the stronger nation of China is also watching intently for weaknesses on both sides.

[Timber Rattler]

?

What has he given in return for the $$ and weaponry we gave him?

Trump already has staked out that foreign aid will not be without strings attached, such as being a loan or, in this case, access to resources we could use.

Zelensky is mad to not take up the offer as our stake in the country's resources would guarantee an American presence on site to safeguard our 'investment' and to counter the Russian intrusion.

From the State Department:

https://www.state.gov/bureau-of-political-military-affairs/releases/2025/01/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine#:~:text=To%20date%2C%20we%20have%20provided,invasion%20of%20Ukraine%20in%202014.

To date, we have provided $65.9 billion in military assistance since Russia launched its premeditated, unprovoked, and brutal full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022, and approximately $69.2 billion in military assistance since Russia’s initial invasion of Ukraine in 2014. We have now used the emergency Presidential Drawdown Authority on 55 occasions since August 2021 to provide Ukraine military assistance totaling approximately $27.688 billion from DoD stockpiles.

Trump's demand:

Trump's $500 billion Ukraine payback exceeds German war reparations: Report

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/donald-trump-ukraine-rare-earth-minerals-zelenskyy-ukraine-war-vladimir-putin-russia-peace-negotiations-2681622-2025-02-18

So how, pray tell, is that NOT highway robbery?

[libertybele]

That's an argument used since WW2, as long as your last line is a solid one.

But remember, Russia is not what it used to be, and the stronger nation of China is also watching intently for weaknesses on both sides.

Yes, China is watching and is a huge concern and I think Trump realizes this.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

From the State Department:

https://www.state.gov/bureau-of-political-military-affairs/releases/2025/01/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine#:~:text=To%20date%2C%20we%20have%20provided,invasion%20of%20Ukraine%20in%202014.

Trump's demand:

Trump's $500 billion Ukraine payback exceeds German war reparations: Report

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/donald-trump-ukraine-rare-earth-minerals-zelenskyy-ukraine-war-vladimir-putin-russia-peace-negotiations-2681622-2025-02-18

So how, pray tell, is that NOT highway robbery?

Do you know how to negotiate?

Do you always accept window price on a car?

[Timber Rattler]

Who said anything about Trump punishing people who are fighting and dying to keep Russia out of the country??

Well you did, for one, by essentially demanding total unconditional surrender by the Ukrainians to the Russians.

Russians are dying too!  Let's not forget that.

   

So whose fault is that?  Vladimir Putin's

Do you think if Russia completely withdrew that Ukraine would then go quietly into the night???

Oh, you think the Ukrainians would turn around and attack Russia after its troops withdrew?  Really?

 

[Timber Rattler]

Do you know how to negotiate?

Do you always accept window price on a car?

Oh please...I'm sick and tired of hearing about Trump's supposed "negotiating" skills and "art of the deal."  This is a con man who has declared bankruptcy six times and whose deals are almost always BAD.  He's selling out the Ukrainians, while trying to rob them blind, and it is a total disgrace to this country!

And it's an even worse disgrace that so many supposed Conservatives are A-OK with that!

Period.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Oh please...I'm sick and tired of hearing about Trump's supposed "negotiating" skills and "art of the deal."  This is a con man who has declared bankruptcy six times and whose deals are almost always BAD.  He's selling out the Ukrainians, while trying to rob them blind, and it is a total disgrace to this country!

And it's an even worse disgrace that so many supposed Conservatives are A-OK with that!

Period.

Not an answer, I see.

Trump is really bothering you, isn't he?  Would you have preferred Kamala?

[Timber Rattler]

Not an answer, I see.

Trump is really bothering you, isn't he?  Would you have preferred Kamala?

I would have preferred DeSantis.

[Hoodat]

Do you think if Russia completely withdrew that Ukraine would then go quietly into the night???

Absolutely.  Just like Poland did in 1921.

Ask yourself; what do you think Z wants the U.S. to do to resolve this war?

Enforce sanctions against Russia and Iran, drive down the price of oil and gas, and supply Europe with LNG.

What do you think Putin wants the U.S. to demand of Ukraine to resolve this conflict??

Putin wants the US to abandon Ukraine and withdraw from NATO so that they can take the entirety of Ukraine as well as Moldova.  Then they can move on the Kalinin corridor, joining Kaliningrad with the rest of Mother Russia.

Z throwing a hissy fit accomplishes absolutely nothing.

Hissy fit?  How so?  He pointed out how Biden diverted over $100 billion in 'Ukraine aid' into Democrat-run NGOs, and for some untold reason, that bothers you.

How much further do think that the U.S. should get involved???   Boots on the ground in Ukraine??  Boots on the ground in Russia??

Personally, I believe the US should shift gears.  Instead of giving $100 billion to Samantha Power, Anthony Blinken, and Lloyd Austin, we should give a few million in seed money for drone manufacturers and entrepreneurs to work with Ukraine pushing the development of new warfare technologies, revamping our own outdated military in the process.  We should be dumping all of our graveyard equipment onto Kyiv instead of paying the costs to store and maintain it here.  We should use Ukraine as a testing ground for new weapons systems such as laser defenses against quick maneuvering drones.  And above all else, we should show the world that there is a heavy cost for greedy military aggression.

None of this requires "boots on the ground", nor does it require tens of billions being laundered through USAID or the State Department.

Peace on both sides would be wonderful but unfortunately right now that looks like a distant pipe dream.

Not at all.  Victory has never been closer.  And Trump is in position to deliver the crushing blow that will bring about Russia's capitulation.

[LMAO]

I would have preferred DeSantis.

@Timber Rattler

 

[Timber Rattler]

Personally, I believe the US should shift gears.  Instead of giving $100 billion to Samantha Power, Anthony Blinken, and Lloyd Austin, we should give a few million in seed money for drone manufacturers and entrepreneurs to work with Ukraine pushing the development of new warfare technologies, revamping our own outdated military in the process.  We should be dumping all of our graveyard equipment onto Kyiv instead of paying the costs to store and maintain it here.  We should use Ukraine as a testing ground for new weapons systems such as laser defenses against quick maneuvering drones.  And above all else, we should show the world that there is a heavy cost for greedy military aggression.

 

Not at all.  Victory has never been closer.  And Trump is in position to deliver the crushing blow that will bring about Russia's capitulation.

Quite right.  But apparently Trump doesn't want to do that because he believes that he's buddies with Putin and can cut a "good deal" for himself.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I would have preferred DeSantis.

He was not on the ticket

[Timber Rattler]

He was not on the ticket

He should have been.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

He should have been.

I deal in reality, not wishful thinking.

[Timber Rattler]

I deal in reality, not wishful thinking.

And I ain't giving Trump a pass on betrayal, theft, and appeasement.

[Hoodat]

Quote
Ukraine Sure Doesn't Look Like a Democracy Anymore | Opinion

Let me know when Ukraine begins assassinating reporters who have unkind words for their leader.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Let me know when Ukraine begins assassinating reporters who have unkind words for their leader.

Still waiting for your proof that these allegations are wrong ⬇️

I know you're trying desperately to be clever with this statement, and I give you credit for the effort, but you really missed the mark.

The article @Timber Rattler was responding to includes specific allegations.  All TR, or you, have to do is prove the allegations are wrong.  For example, prove the press in Ukraine is still a diverse, robust industry and has not been changed by the Zelensky regime into a closed, state-run arm of the government. Show how the churches of the religious denominations disbanded by Zelensky are still open and freely operating.  Prove the political parties shut down by the Zelensky regime are still open, functioning and engaged in Ukraine politics.  ------

[Hoodat]

Still waiting for you to prove you didn't donate money to the Harris campaign.

[mountaineer]

Poland's president:

Andrzej Duda
@AndrzejDuda
A few minutes ago, President @ZelenskyyUA called me. We had a candid conversation on the heels of the recent meetings with General Kellogg and other developments. I conveyed to him that we consistently believe there is no other way to stop the bloodshed and achieve lasting peace in Ukraine except with the support of the United States.

For this reason, I suggested to President Zelenskyy to remain committed to the course of calm and constructive cooperation with @POTUS  Donald Trump. I trust that good will and honesty form the foundation of the U.S. negotiation strategy. I have no doubt that President Trump is guided by a deep sense of responsibility for global stability and peace.
7:39 AM · Feb 21, 2025

[Kamaji]

Poland's president:

Andrzej Duda
@AndrzejDuda
A few minutes ago, President @ZelenskyyUA called me. We had a candid conversation on the heels of the recent meetings with General Kellogg and other developments. I conveyed to him that we consistently believe there is no other way to stop the bloodshed and achieve lasting peace in Ukraine except with the support of the United States.

For this reason, I suggested to President Zelenskyy to remain committed to the course of calm and constructive cooperation with @POTUS  Donald Trump. I trust that good will and honesty form the foundation of the U.S. negotiation strategy. I have no doubt that President Trump is guided by a deep sense of responsibility for global stability and peace.
7:39 AM · Feb 21, 2025

Someone is feeding the public a bunch of hooey.

[dfwgator]

Someone is feeding the public a bunch of hooey.

Nobody really knows what is going on behind the scenes,  everything you hear in the news is merely for public consumption.

[Timber Rattler]

Hegseth had no answer this morning as to what concessions Russia was making, or what Putin was putting on the table...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0-1a1dEg-M

At the 06:45 Mark:

REPORTER: You focused on what Ukraine has to give up. What concessions will be demanded of Putin?

HEGSETH: Hmm. I would start by saying that the arguments that have been made that somehow sitting down at the table right now is making concessions to Vladimir Putin, I just reject that outright.

REPORTER: Yes, but every “peace talk” so far has been about what Ukraine has to give up – territory, NATO aspirations, sovereignty. So what exactly is Putin putting on the table?

HEGSETH: Well, I don’t think it’s fair to say that we’re just giving concessions to Putin.

REPORTER: Okay, is he pulling out the Russian troops? Paying reparations? Admitting war crimes? Or is his big “compromise” that he’s just taking less from Ukraine than he originally wanted?

HEGSETH: Look, negotiations require both sides to make sacrifices.

REPORTER: Yes, but only one side has launched a full-scale invasion. If a guy steals your house and offers to give you back half of your living room, that's not a "compromise" - that's a hostage deal.

HEGSETH: I just think it's time for diplomacy.

REPORTER: Diplomacy is great when both sides want peace. But when one side just wants a "pause" to recharge, that's not diplomacy - that's setting up for the next invasion.

HEGSETH: So you're saying no negotiations, just endless war?

REPORTER: No, I'm saying that a peace agreement where only one side makes sacrifices is not peace - that's a better saying for surrender.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Zelensky is mad to not take up the offer as our stake in the country's resources would guarantee an American presence on site to safeguard our 'investment' and to counter the Russian intrusion.

Appears Zelensky is not longer a madman as he will now be protected.  By us.

Zelensky surrenders to Trump and 'will sign mineral deal within hours'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14423219/volodymyr-zelensky-surrenders-donald-trump-sign-mineral-deal-hours.html

[catfish1957]

Hegseth had no answer this morning as to what concessions Russia was making, or what Putin was putting on the table...

Negotiations are fluid, even as we speak.  I think it is good strategy for Hegseth to withhold comment, when he knows the results might change on a dime.  In the snake pit of the MSM, one mispeak is treated like a scandal.

[DCPatriot]

Negotiations are fluid, even as we speak.  I think it is good strategy for Hegseth to withhold comment, when he knows the results might change on a dime.  In the snake pit of the MSM, one misspeak is treated like a scandal.

That's right!  

[Hoodat]

Negotiations are fluid, even as we speak.  I think it is good strategy for Hegseth to withhold comment, when he knows the results might change on a dime.  In the snake pit of the MSM, one mispeak is treated like a scandal.

Yet there was no hesitation to blurt out the $500 billion figure that Trump was going to get out of Ukraine, right after blaming them for starting Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

[Kamaji]

Negotiations are fluid, even as we speak.  I think it is good strategy for Hegseth to withhold comment, when he knows the results might change on a dime.  In the snake pit of the MSM, one mispeak is treated like a scandal.

Yeah, that only works if it’s applied to all parties.  But it’s not Trump already has “brown” lipstick from kissing Putin’s a$$.  Funny how that “fluidity of negotiations” only goes one way. 

[jafo2010]

IsailedawayfromFR...

What has he given in return for the $$ and weaponry we gave him?

Seriously?   DEAD RUSSIANS...DEAD NORTH KOREANS

Russian casualties:  860,000 and counting    10,000 tanks destroyed, along with large numbers of every other category, all destroyed.

The fact is, the lessons learned from this war will go to greatly enhancing our war making ability.  This war will redefine the battlefield of the future.  This nation singlehandedly stood against what was perceived to be one of the top military machines in the world.  And what is further good for us, this war has proven how utterly derelict the Russian military leadership is.

1,000 Ukrainians made an incursion into Russia and holds a major area, and has successfully fended off one effort after another by the Russians to recapture their land.  Ukraine has proven that Russia is a paper tiger. 

Yes, the world has come to know that Russia is a huge joke.  Credibility is at an all time low.  This war is proving Trump right in his approach to NATO.  For too long, they have not contributed their appropriate share for the defense of largely Europe.  I think the time has come for the USA to take a 2nd tier level role with NATO.  Let the NATO countries contribute 5% of their country's budget to the NATO budget, while the USA contributes an amount no greater than the wealthiest nation of Europe, which is Germany.  Or better yet, the European nations pay the USA for our involvement.  We have subsidized their defense long enough.

As it was pointed out earlier in the week, the EU has a population 100 million greater than the USA, and they have a trade surplus that is hundreds of billions greater with the USA.  They certainly have the wealth to defend their own land.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Seriously?   DEAD RUSSIANS...DEAD NORTH KOREANS

Russian casualties:  860,000 and counting    10,000 tanks destroyed, along with large numbers of every other category, all destroyed.

The fact is, the lessons learned from this war will go to greatly enhancing our war making ability.  This war will redefine the battlefield of the future.  This nation singlehandedly stood against what was perceived to be one of the top military machines in the world.  And what is further good for us, this war has proven how utterly derelict the Russian military leadership is.

1,000 Ukrainians made an incursion into Russia and holds a major area, and has successfully fended off one effort after another by the Russians to recapture their land.  Ukraine has proven that Russia is a paper tiger. 

Yes, the world has come to know that Russia is a huge joke.  Credibility is at an all time low.  This war is proving Trump right in his approach to NATO.  For too long, they have not contributed their appropriate share for the defense of largely Europe.  I think the time has come for the USA to take a 2nd tier level role with NATO.  Let the NATO countries contribute 5% of their country's budget to the NATO budget, while the USA contributes an amount no greater than the wealthiest nation of Europe, which is Germany.  Or better yet, the European nations pay the USA for our involvement.  We have subsidized their defense long enough.

As it was pointed out earlier in the week, the EU has a population 100 million greater than the USA, and they have a trade surplus that is hundreds of billions greater with the USA.  They certainly have the wealth to defend their own land.

Not arguing any of that.  But remember we are not the only ones observing that performance by the Russian military.  Russia is not as great a threat as it used to be when it had the USSR, as China is the greater threat.

The Chinese not only profit on seeing how Russia acts, but also how the EU reacts.

Russia's expansionist plans pale in comparison to China's which are deeply affecting many more theaters in the world.

If not read previously, Tom Clancy's 2000 novel The Bear and the Dragon

[catfish1957]

Not arguing any of that.  But remember we are not the only ones observing that performance by the Russian military.  Russia is not as great a threat as it used to be when it had the USSR, as China is the greater threat.

The Chinese not only profit on seeing how Russia acts, but also how the EU reacts.

Russia's expansionist plans pale in comparison to China's which are deeply affecting many more theaters in the world.

If not read previously, Tom Clancy's 2000 novel The Bear and the Dragon

The possibility that the Chicoms are using the Russians as sacrificial lambs and a distraction to weaken the west and their armaments has crossed my mind many times. That Russian has remained , just strengthens that theorem .   And on the back side, Xi might have a place at the table for Putin once the sacrifice is complete, and the wheels are greased to allow the Chinese inact their Pac agression  plan.