Kari Lake Officially Launches Bid For US Senate

[HikerGuy83]

"With respect to the two words "general welfare," I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."

           Constitutional architect James Madison in a letter to James Robertson

"If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions."

 James Madison, 1792

I'll take his word for it since he was on the scene when the constitution was written.

Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner

General Welfare refers to the ability of the federal government to do what is necessary to carry out it's enumerated duties.

BTW: He wasn't just there....he wrote most of it.

[HikerGuy83]

Nope. 

Yep

[HikerGuy83]

With 500,000 ballots to be counted? Say what? How? (Or do they know where they were printed?)

The called it.

Don't use the word stolen in this election.

It's been her mantra for two previous elections and she has to shut up.

If she lost, she lost.

Trump smeared Harris.....

We picked up seats in the house and senate (AZ state house and AZ state senate).

She simply was unpopular with many people.

I voted for her.  But I knew she'd lose.

Frankly, I never expected it to be this close.

She has Trump to thank for that (even being close).

[Kamaji]

Yep

Nope.

[Kamaji]

Maybe one should try reading the Constitution instead of playing liberal games of believing that it instantiates one’s own fondest wishes.

The power to provide for the general welfare of the country (the spending power) is provided for in the first clause of Section 8 of Article I of the Constitution, and is therefore a primary power in and of itself, of equal gravity the other primary powers of Congress.  It is therefore most definitely not a secondary power that can only be exercised in pursuit of one of the other enumerated powers. 

Come on, people, y’all are smarter than liberals; start acting like it.

[Elderberry]

General Mike Flynn
@GenFlynn

The State of Arizona has become the poster child for election fraud. If those involved are caught in any fraudulent activity, they will likely be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Stop this nonsense of counting until the outcome is in your favor. That’s what Venezuela does, NOT America!

@KariLake
 won!

Post
Conversation
Liz Harrington
@realLizUSA
Pima County added 14,666 ballots to its total of uncounted ballots on Nov. 8.

This is obvious fraud. The totals CANNOT change. Investigate now!

[HikerGuy83]

Maybe one should try reading the Constitution instead of playing liberal games of believing that it instantiates one’s own fondest wishes.

When the guy who wrote it spends years afterwards helping people understand what it means.....

Those are his fondest wishes.

Best of luck with that one.

[HikerGuy83]

Come on, people, y’all are smarter than liberals; start acting like it.

When you want to discuss it, let us know.

[Bigun]

Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner

General Welfare refers to the ability of the federal government to do what is necessary to carry out it's enumerated duties.

BTW: He wasn't just there....he wrote most of it.

That he did and I'm pretty damned sure he knew what the intent was.

[Kamaji]

When the guy who wrote it spends years afterwards helping people understand what it means.....

Those are his fondest wishes.

Best of luck with that one.

Sorry, but what matters is the wording and structure of the Constitution itself, not what someone, even one of the Founders, wishes it said.


The spending power is a coequal separate grant of power, it is not a secondary grant of power intended only to facilitate the other powers.  If it were secondary and only for use in facilitating the other powers, then it would have been contained in the last clause of Article I, section 8, which expressly grants Congress the power needed to carry out the other powers.

The express words of the Constitution and its literal structure provide that result.  Stop being such a liberal.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

So, if the election was stolen, why would they steal it from Lake and not from Trump?

[Bigun]

Sorry, but what matters is the wording and structure of the Constitution itself, not what someone, even one of the Founders, wishes it said.


The spending power is a coequal separate grant of power, it is not a secondary grant of power intended only to facilitate the other powers.  If it were secondary and only for use in facilitating the other powers, then it would have been contained in the last clause of Article I, section 8, which expressly grants Congress the power needed to carry out the other powers.

The express words of the Constitution and its literal structure provide that result.  Stop being such a liberal.

 

Have you ever once heard the words "original intent" ?

[HikerGuy83]

Have you ever once heard the words "original intent" ?

In the end, it doesn't matter what you or I say.

It matters what we get the SCOTUS to abide by.

I found that arguing with people like this is meaningless.

Back when SCOTUS was killing off FDR's New Deal, he got pissed. 

His packing scheme failed....but time eventually gave him the justices he wanted.

That is why Trump is my hero (and I don't like the way he behaves). 

Gorsuch, Kavennaugh, Barrett

I doubt they will give General Welfare carte blance. 

But FDR's criminal court was more than willing to.

Clarence Thomas needs to resign soon so we can put a younger conservative (I like Thomas....but don't need a Ginsburg to occur).

[HikerGuy83]

Right now, Lake is losing. 

If that holds, she only has herself to blame. 

AZ went strong for Trump.

And not everyone who voted him voted for her.  Many I know were pissed at her for the very thing she'll pull if she loses....crying fraud.

[HikerGuy83]

So, if the election was stolen, why would they steal it from Lake and not from Trump?

Not only that, but the AZ house and AZ senate where the GOP cleaned house (pickups in both).

Lake was toxic to many.

I voted for her.  If she loses this, I don't want to hear her name again.

[Smokin Joe]

Lowkey Rey 2.0
@AtlRey
Here’s a quick recap of what just happened in AZ in case you missed it:

- Trump won Arizona by 6 points

- Gallego had 127k more votes than there are registered Democrats in AZ.

- Lake had 200k fewer votes than there are registered Republicans in AZ.

- Gallego received more votes than Kamala Harris did in AZ.

- Lake received 140k fewer votes than Trump did in AZ.

- Uncounted ballots increased days after the deadline.

-Mitch McConnell withheld campaign funds from Lake.

- No GOP members are speaking out about these discrepancies.

Overall, something about this election between Lake and Gallego doesn’t add up. Thoughts? 🤔

Always watch what the other hand is doing.
Maybe the steal wasn't set for the POTUS race (even the minority of relatively sane democrats had to be less than enthused about Kamala and Timmy) but for down ticket races to position the Dems for the midterms and a reversal of power in the Congress.

[libertybele]

Always watch what the other hand is doing.
Maybe the steal wasn't set for the POTUS race (even the minority of relatively sane democrats had to be less than enthused about Kamala and Timmy) but for down ticket races to position the Dems for the midterms and a reversal of power in the Congress.

Well, that's definitely a real possibility.

[catfish1957]

So, if the election was stolen, why would they steal it from Lake and not from Trump?

I've been pretty much accidentally following this thread from the beginning.  But if you listen to the 2 guys from Arizona, it sounds like her entire campaign has sucked since Day 1.  Thus that underperformance vs. DJT.

[Bigun]

https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1855511157571735825

[Cyber Liberty]

I've been pretty much accidentally following this thread from the beginning.  But if you listen to the 2 guys from Arizona, it sounds like her entire campaign has sucked since Day 1.  Thus that underperformance vs. DJT.

I am one of the two.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Not only that, but the AZ house and AZ senate where the GOP cleaned house (pickups in both).

Lake was toxic to many.

I voted for her.  If she loses this, I don't want to hear her name again.

To these guys everything is stolen unless proven otherwise.

[Kamaji]

Have you ever once heard the words "original intent" ?

Wow.  You really don't understand how statutory construction works, do you.  Original intent is only relied upon if the express language itself is ambiguous, and if application of the canons of construction, including analysis of grammatical structure, do not resolve the question.

In this case, the grammatical structure of Art. I, Section 8 is quite clear - certainly a lot clearer than the grammatical structure that resolved the Second Amendment issue in Heller - the power to "provide for the general welfare" is a primary power, at the head of the list of other substantive powers granted to Congress in Section 8, and therefore is not merely an auxilliary power granted solely in aid of the other enumerated powers.

It's really a shame that you seem to prefer your own political preferences to the express words and structure of the Constitution itself.

[Bigun]

Wow.  You really don't understand how statutory construction works, do you.  Original intent is only relied upon if the express language itself is ambiguous, and if application of the canons of construction, including analysis of grammatical structure, do not resolve the question.

In this case, the grammatical structure of Art. I, Section 8 is quite clear - certainly a lot clearer than the grammatical structure that resolved the Second Amendment issue in Heller - the power to "provide for the general welfare" is a primary power, at the head of the list of other substantive powers granted to Congress in Section 8, and therefore is not merely an auxilliary power granted solely in aid of the other enumerated powers.

It's really a shame that you seem to prefer your own political preferences to the express words and structure of the Constitution itself.

 "should Congress, under the pretext of executing its powers, pass laws for the accomplishment of objects not entrusted to the government; it would become the painful duty of this tribunal . . . to say that such an act was not the law of the land."

Chief Justice John Marshal, McCulloch v. Maryland (1819).

[Hoodat]

Not according to the Constitution.  If it is part of the general welfare, it is legitimate.

You might want to go back and reread that part.  It says "general Welfare of the United States", not 'general welfare of individual States'.  The 'United States' as an entity is separate from the governance of each State in matters of 'general welfare'.  There is no Constitutional basis for government giving money to States to do the federal government's job for them.

[Timber Rattler]

Here's what James Madison himself had to say about it, long after the fact:

James Madison to Andrew Stevenson, 27 Nov. 1830, Letters 4:120--39

https://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_8_1s27.html