There Are Some Serious Problems With These Polls Right Now

[Fishrrman]

The terrier wrote in #6 above:
"TRUMP CAN'T POSSIBLY WIN THE GENERAL ELECTION.  Let that sink in."

Then please explain to us:
- Will Mr. DeSantis (the only other possible candidate other than Mr. Trump) win in Pennsylvania?
- Will Mr. DeSantis win in Michigan?
- Will Mr. DeSantis win in Wisconsin?
- Will Mr. DeSantis win in Arizona?
- Will Mr. DeSantis win in Georgia?

This is where The Party's underground (and above-ground) election apparatus will be strongly ensconced in 2024.

Without these states, NO Republican can win the presidency any longer. It's simple arithmetic.

Since 2016, when Mr. Trump won all of them, which way have these states trended?
Which party now has them under control? (yes, the Pubbies control the statehouse in Georgia, but look at how the last several Senate elections have gone there)

The 2024 election will be about more than "personalities".
It will be about "the apparatus", and whether anyone can defeat it.

The only possible Republican with enough horsepower to do so will be Mr. Trump.
And even his chances aren't great (I'll admit that right up front).
But he has the greatest level of "base support" amongst Republicans.
Without that, no one else -- not Mr. DeSantis, nor any other candidate -- can win.

[Cyber Liberty]

The terrier wrote in #6 above:
"TRUMP CAN'T POSSIBLY WIN THE GENERAL ELECTION.  Let that sink in."

Then please explain to us:
- Will Mr. DeSantis (the only other possible candidate other than Mr. Trump) win in Pennsylvania?
- Will Mr. DeSantis win in Michigan?
- Will Mr. DeSantis win in Wisconsin?
- Will Mr. DeSantis win in Arizona?
- Will Mr. DeSantis win in Georgia?

This is where The Party's underground (and above-ground) election apparatus will be strongly ensconced in 2024.

Without these states, NO Republican can win the presidency any longer. It's simple arithmetic.

Since 2016, when Mr. Trump won all of them, which way have these states trended?
Which party now has them under control? (yes, the Pubbies control the statehouse in Georgia, but look at how the last several Senate elections have gone there)

The 2024 election will be about more than "personalities".
It will be about "the apparatus", and whether anyone can defeat it.

The only possible Republican with enough horsepower to do so will be Mr. Trump.
And even his chances aren't great (I'll admit that right up front).
But he has the greatest level of "base support" amongst Republicans.
Without that, no one else -- not Mr. DeSantis, nor any other candidate -- can win.

Fox already called AZ for Biden in '24.

[massadvj]

You're preaching to the choir. As a Reaganite, I do embrace all of the Conservative principles - I think they all intertwine and are interdependent, which is why Reaganism is right - Do harm to one, do harm to all.

But in the context of that, in arguing with populists over Tumpy, I have found my thinking coming to a rigid irreducible complexity. Within the Conservative principles, what is irreducible is Goldwater - libertarianism and fiscal conservatism. That is the root. If one is not standing upon small and distributed government, then you're part of the problem. Especially so on the Right.

As an aside, I have seen some remarkable conversions out of progressive liberalism in and around the 'Intellectual Dark Web' debates. Rubin, and I suppose Rogan, as examples... I was along for Rubin's ride, as he inexorably became convinced. It was awesome to watch him change his mind intellectually... Jordan Peterson - Another conversion - deserves a lot of the credit.

The interesting part is how many of them settle into Classic Liberalism... Finding out their alignment is really with that root. It is almost common. It makes me wonder if the liberalism claimed by progressives is really a complete and utter bastardization of the real thing - Like 'Big L' libertarians often find they were in when discovering Goldwater...

It's a thing... Jussayin.

Jordan Peterson is fully converted. Joe Rogan is a work in progress. I think anyone who has taken the intellectual journey through all of the various political ideologies; really examined the assumptions of each, and the consequences, settles upon something like classical liberalism as the best and most sustainable system for humankind.

One problem is that historically a megalomaniac with a mob can overwhelm a system based on personal freedom, and the system has no adequate defense.

[Right_in_Virginia]

On Trump and COVID, early in the crisis there was defacto martial law. The constitution was thrown out the window. Every church in the country was shuttered. So much for the First Amendment. Every small retail establishment in the country was forced to shut its doors. 

In 2020, "defacto martial law" was called by US governors, not the POTUS.  Seven Republican governors exercised their Constitutional right to ignore CDC recommendations and kept their states completely open .... without fear of retaliation from the federal government.  In those states every business and house of worship remained open. 

In fact, even governors choosing to lock down their states carved out essential businesses, medical care and implemented work from home.  Did it have the desired affect on the economy right before an election?  You bet it did.  But, this was not Trump's doing.  Every time he called for reopening, he was branded a cold-hearted killer.  Never once stopped him from calling for it, though.

And you say this is a man who will dismantle the federal government? 

I say this is the man who knows where the root of the government's corruption is, along with its branches --- by name and with receipts.  This man is also fearless.  If you're serious about changing the inner workings of the federal administrative state, Donald Trump is the man. 

If you're longing for the status quo, pitching hyperbolic    is the only strategy you've got.

@massadvj

[LMAO]

This man is also fearless.  If you're serious about changing the inner workings of the federal administrative state, Donald Trump is the man. 

A statement not backed by past and present actions.

[LMAO]

One problem is that historically a megalomaniac with a mob can overwhelm a system based on personal freedom, and the system has no adequate defense.

Bears repeating

[sneakypete]

In 2020, "defacto martial law" was called by US governors, not the POTUS.  Seven Republican governors exercised their Constitutional right to ignore CDC recommendations and kept their states completely open .... without fear of retaliation from the federal government.  In those states every business and house of worship remained open. 

In fact, even governors choosing to lock down their states carved out essential businesses, medical care and implemented work from home.  Did it have the desired affect on the economy right before an election?  You bet it did.  But, this was not Trump's doing.  Every time he called for reopening, he was branded a cold-hearted killer.  Never once stopped him from calling for it, though.

I say this is the man who knows where the root of the government's corruption is, along with its branches --- by name and with receipts.  This man is also fearless.  If you're serious about changing the inner workings of the federal administrative state, Donald Trump is the man. 

If you're longing for the status quo, pitching hyperbolic    is the only strategy you've got.

@massadvj

@Right_in_Virginia


But....but....but,he is RUDE!

He is also a freaking billionaire,AND he is orange!

Any one of the three is enough to get the typical airhead to hate and be jealous of him,but all three is an overdose.

[massadvj]

In 2020, "defacto martial law" was called by US governors, not the POTUS.  Seven Republican governors exercised their Constitutional right to ignore CDC recommendations and kept their states completely open .... without fear of retaliation from the federal government.  In those states every business and house of worship remained open. 

In fact, even governors choosing to lock down their states carved out essential businesses, medical care and implemented work from home.  Did it have the desired affect on the economy right before an election?  You bet it did.  But, this was not Trump's doing.  Every time he called for reopening, he was branded a cold-hearted killer.  Never once stopped him from calling for it, though.

I say this is the man who knows where the root of the government's corruption is, along with its branches --- by name and with receipts.  This man is also fearless.  If you're serious about changing the inner workings of the federal administrative state, Donald Trump is the man. 

If you're longing for the status quo, pitching hyperbolic    is the only strategy you've got.

@massadvj

The reason we have a constitution is to prevent any state from enforcing martial law. But in this case the CDC and Fauci encouraged the states to do so, and Trump even criticized DeSantis for not adhering to the CDC directives. So you are basically defending Trump for NOT declaring federal martial law and encouraging the states do it on their own. The point of the COTUS is to protect the rights of the people against martial law, not to enable the states to declare it. Fauci should never have been given this kind of authority.

I notice you have no answer for Trump's massive spending and giveaways. I assume that is because they are indefensible.

I also notice you do not answer whether you will support RDS if he is the nominee.

[cato potatoe]

Then please explain to us:
- Will Mr. DeSantis (the only other possible candidate other than Mr. Trump) win in Pennsylvania?
- Will Mr. DeSantis win in Michigan?
- Will Mr. DeSantis win in Wisconsin?
- Will Mr. DeSantis win in Arizona?
- Will Mr. DeSantis win in Georgia?

It's not as if Trump broke into Fort Knox back in 2016.  Georgia and Arizona are red states with Trump haters.  Yes all but a few candidates would beat Joe Biden there.  From that point, only 7 EVs are needed.  George Bush lost Wisconsin by 11,384 votes, and other republicans get elected there quite often.  Trump destroyed the GOP in Pennsylvania and Michigan, but in a normal environment those are swing states along with New Hampshire and Nevada.

[massadvj]

The terrier wrote in #6 above:
"TRUMP CAN'T POSSIBLY WIN THE GENERAL ELECTION.  Let that sink in."

Then please explain to us:
- Will Mr. DeSantis (the only other possible candidate other than Mr. Trump) win in Pennsylvania?
- Will Mr. DeSantis win in Michigan?
- Will Mr. DeSantis win in Wisconsin?
- Will Mr. DeSantis win in Arizona?
- Will Mr. DeSantis win in Georgia?

This is where The Party's underground (and above-ground) election apparatus will be strongly ensconced in 2024.

Without these states, NO Republican can win the presidency any longer. It's simple arithmetic.

Since 2016, when Mr. Trump won all of them, which way have these states trended?
Which party now has them under control? (yes, the Pubbies control the statehouse in Georgia, but look at how the last several Senate elections have gone there)

The 2024 election will be about more than "personalities".
It will be about "the apparatus", and whether anyone can defeat it.

The only possible Republican with enough horsepower to do so will be Mr. Trump.
And even his chances aren't great (I'll admit that right up front).
But he has the greatest level of "base support" amongst Republicans.
Without that, no one else -- not Mr. DeSantis, nor any other candidate -- can win.

For the record, and this will come as a surprise to the Trump supporters, I think the person best equipped to win the general election will be the one who wins the primary.  If RDS cannot win the primary, then he can't win the general election, either. We have primaries to vet these things, and although they are flawed, they do tend to sort out who is better at establishing himself as a proven vote-getter.

[Right_in_Virginia]

But in this case the CDC and Fauci encouraged the states to do so, and Trump even criticized DeSantis for not adhering to the CDC directives.

Educate yourself @massadvj  More than once President Trump tried to keep and get Florida open:

1. "Two years ago today, @GovRonDeSantis became a “Lockdown Governor” when he issued a stay-at-home order for Floridians.”. [Listen to what RDS says about his explaining the lockdown to President Trump toward the end of the video]

Video: 

https://twitter.com/sfdb/status/1509857474903527437

2.  DeSantis in May 2020 on reopening FL: "Now, we did, when I announced phase one, we followed the White House guidelines, but we didn’t even do everything that they said you could do in phase one. So, it was a limited phase one. It was a safe step." (Video)

https://twitter.com/MAGAIncWarRoom/status/1671592773978316816

3.  "Here’s video of DeSantis in June 2020 calling Fauci’s directives “important” & threatening to revoke licenses of FL businesses that didn’t comply."

https://twitter.com/LauraLoomer/status/1632477718351675393


4.  "Ron DeSantis says he "defers" to Fauci and that he is pushing President Trump to restrict domestic air travel." (Video)

https://twitter.com/MAGAIncWarRoom/status/1664381991330930691


For extra study:

5.  RDS:  “We’ve embraced the vaccines, we’ve embraced the science on it, the data I’ve said has been good from the beginning in terms of clinical trials, it’s even better in real life.”  (Video)

https://twitter.com/here_I_go_so/status/1666426743006142465

[Right_in_Virginia]

The reason we have a constitution is to prevent any state from enforcing martial law. So you are basically defending Trump for NOT declaring federal martial law and encouraging the states do it on their own. The point of the COTUS is to protect the rights of the people against martial law, not to enable the states to declare it.

Guess again @massadvj

Two centuries of law guide legal approach to modern pandemic
American Bar Association, Apr 2020

Under the U.S. Constitution’s 10th Amendment and U.S. Supreme Court decisions over nearly 200 years, state governments have the primary authority to control the spread of dangerous diseases within their jurisdictions. The 10th Amendment, which gives states all powers not specifically given to the federal government, allows them the authority to take public health emergency actions, such as setting quarantines and business restrictions.

With states adopting emergency measures, there are several broad public health tools that governors can invoke. They can, for example, order quarantines to separate and restrict the movement of people who were exposed to a contagious disease to see if they become sick. They can also direct that those who are sick with a quarantinable communicable disease be isolated from people who are not sick. And, as a growing number of governors have done in recent days, states can order residents to stay at home with exceptions for essential work, food or other needs. The governors’ orders, akin to shelter-in-place directives, affect tens of millions in the affected states. Curfews are another tool they can impose.

The power to quarantine and take even more stringent measures in the name of public health has belonged largely to the states for nearly 200 years. In 1824, the Supreme Court drew a clear line in Gibbons v. Ogden between the state and federal governments when it came to regulating activities within and between states. In a unanimous ruling, then-Chief Justice John Marshall cited the 10th Amendment in saying that police powers are largely reserved to states for activities within their borders.

Those police powers, he explained, include the ability to impose isolation and quarantine conditions. Marshall wrote that quarantine laws “form a portion of that immense mass of legislation which embraces everything within the territory of a state not surrendered to the general government.”

In 1902, the Supreme Court directly addressed a state’s power to quarantine an entire geographical area. In Compagnie Francaise de Navigation a Vapeur v. Louisiana State Board of Health, the justices upheld a Louisiana Supreme Court decision that the state could enact and enforce quarantine laws unless Congress had decided to preempt them. Thus Louisiana could exclude healthy persons from an infested area populated with persons with a contagious or infectious disease (the Port of New Orleans), and that this power applied as well to persons seeking to enter the infected place, whether they came from within the state or not. The decision in Compagnie Francaise remains unchanged, and numerous courts have cited it as authority for state quarantines as recently as the Ebola outbreak.

While President Donald Trump has played down the need for the federal government to declare national quarantines or isolations, some interpret he has that power under the Commerce Clause, which governs commerce with “foreign nations and among” states. The federal government did not invoke the Commerce Clause during the global 1918–1919 Spanish Influenza pandemic, which killed an estimated 40 million worldwide, including 675,000 Americans.

The president could urge other governors across the United States to issue “stay home” orders following the lead of California and New York, which were the first states to issue such directives. But as a Congressional Research Service report explained in 2014 amid the Ebola threat, governors have broad powers to invoke restrictions in their state while the power of the president is significantly more limited by law and Supreme Court precedent.

The president, for instance, said on March 17 that he discussed “a national lockdown” with advisers to minimize the spread of COVID-19, but three days later he dismissed the idea. While some say such a centralized federal response would be more effective and needed, any executive order to that effect would be unprecedented and would likely lead to a court challenge on constitutional grounds.

https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/publications/youraba/2020/youraba-april-2020/law-guides-legal-approach-to-pandemic/

Bonus video:

"November, 2021. Fauci criticizes Trump for leaving the Covid mitigation decisions up to the states." (Video)

https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/1664447318089662471

[sneakypete]

Educate yourself @massadvj  More than once President Trump tried to keep and get Florida open:

1. "Two years ago today, @GovRonDeSantis became a “Lockdown Governor” when he issued a stay-at-home order for Floridians.”. [Listen to what RDS says about his explaining the lockdown to President Trump toward the end of the video]

Video: 

https://twitter.com/sfdb/status/1509857474903527437

2.  DeSantis in May 2020 on reopening FL: "Now, we did, when I announced phase one, we followed the White House guidelines, but we didn’t even do everything that they said you could do in phase one. So, it was a limited phase one. It was a safe step." (Video)

https://twitter.com/MAGAIncWarRoom/status/1671592773978316816

3.  "Here’s video of DeSantis in June 2020 calling Fauci’s directives “important” & threatening to revoke licenses of FL businesses that didn’t comply."

https://twitter.com/LauraLoomer/status/1632477718351675393


4.  "Ron DeSantis says he "defers" to Fauci and that he is pushing President Trump to restrict domestic air travel." (Video)

https://twitter.com/MAGAIncWarRoom/status/1664381991330930691


For extra study:

5.  RDS:  “We’ve embraced the vaccines, we’ve embraced the science on it, the data I’ve said has been good from the beginning in terms of clinical trials, it’s even better in real life.”  (Video)

https://twitter.com/here_I_go_so/status/1666426743006142465

@Right_in_Virginia

I STRONGLY  suspect what you are going to hear from the DeSanctimonious Supporters will be either "Hit  taint sew!",or dead silence.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I notice you have no answer for Trump's massive spending and giveaways. I assume that is because they are indefensible.  I also notice you do not answer whether you will support RDS if he is the nominee.

@massadvj

Why, in the name of all that is Holy, would I ----- of all people ----- feed the strategy to deflect whenever hyperbolic falsehoods thrown against President Trump are exposed for the BS they are??     

But, thanks for noticing. 

[sneakypete]

For the record, and this will come as a surprise to the Trump supporters, I think the person best equipped to win the general election will be the one who wins the primary. 

@massadvj

Isn't this the usual outcome?

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

I STRONGLY  suspect what you are going to hear from the DeSanctimonious Supporters will be either "Hit  taint sew!",or dead silence.

I'm going to vote for dead silence.  This thread will now be disappeared   

@sneakypete

[LMAO]

@massadvj

Why, in the name of all that is Holy, would I ----- of all people ----- feed the strategy to deflect whenever hyperbolic falsehoods thrown against President Trump are exposed for the BS they are??     

But, thanks for noticing. 

  I kind of figured that your answer would be along these lines when the question was presented.

[Sighlass]

@Right_in_Virginia
But....but....but,he is RUDE!

He is also a freaking billionaire,AND he is orange!

Any one of the three is enough to get the typical airhead to hate and be jealous of him,but all three is an overdose.

Just looking back at some of your earlier posts when you first joined TBR.... @sneakypete

BTW,you seem to be obsessed with Trump's money. Does this mean you will support Bloomberg if he jumps into the election? After all,Bloomberg has 18 times as much money as Trump,and he didn't even inherit it.

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,192335.0.html

BTW,you seem so obsessed with Trump's money and net worth. Please answer this question,ok?

Someone that idolizes Trump accusing someone else of hyperbole is both hilarious and hypocritical at the same time. P.T Barnum was modest compared to Trump. 

The purchasing power of the money he has today is probably less than the purchasing power of the money and other assets he inherited 40 or s so years ago.
And he is constantly claiming he is the smartest man in the world,and the most accomplished. 

Is that your way of admitting Trump isn't a financial genius,and as perfect as he claims?

BTW,none of the other people you mentioned started out wealthy with successful businesses and assets given to them,and none of them based or base their wealth on money manipulation.

It's not about inherited money. It is about a political candidate whose whole financal well-being is based on inherited money bragging about his wealth,and his supporters bragging about how good a businessman he is because he is rich,and how this means he will bail out the country.

No matter how many times you tell those people his business model is bankruptcy and he has declared bankruptcy at least 4 times,they don't believe it because they don't WANT to believe it. 

You even argued with RiV over it...

The first part is a quote,the second part is your opinion. I personally don't think a financial career based on bankruptcy makes someone a genius when it comes to restoring our economy.

Thank you. It should be noted that the first inheritance he got was for 12 million,plus all those NYC rental properties,and it came from his grandfather. IIRC,that was a trust fund he got when he turned 21.
The 200 million plus other assets came from his father.
Given what he started with,he's really a pretty lousy businessman.
Inheriting money doesn't make you smart.... 

You have no problem with nicknames for Trump back in the day

Trumpeteer is a negative name for a Trump fan,now? If they/you find that insulting,why are you fans of Trump?

BTW,nice job of removing the word Trumpeteer so that others will think I actually did call them something they would see as degrading.

Here you have an early example of you using the "orange" term... in some of your very first posts at TBR...

I didn't vote for him,and I won't be voting for the poser with the orange possum on his head,either.

All the above posts didn't take long to curate, they were within a page or so of 1890 in your replies.  I forgot your "rude" remark, but you also pointed that out in your early posts.

[Kamaji]

Just looking back at some of your earlier posts when you first joined TBR.... @sneakypete

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,192335.0.html
 

You even argued with RiV over it...

You have no problem with nicknames for Trump back in the day

Here you have an early example of you using the "orange" term... in some of your very first posts at TBR...

All the above posts didn't take long to curate, they were within a page or so of 1890 in your replies.  I forgot your "rude" remark, but you also pointed that out in your early posts.

@Sighlass

Good finds!

[LMAO]

@Sighlass

Good finds!

And it wasn’t long ago that he thought DeSantis would be the ideal 2028 candidate

It was only after Donald Trump claimed he was being backstabbed did he adopt that position,also

[Sighlass]

@Sighlass

Good finds!

It was funny how SP argued with the Mods over the use of the terms too.

[DCPatriot]

It was funny how SP argued with the Mods over the use of the terms too.

LOL!

Been here so long...remember when using the words "hate" and "liar" were verboten.

Ironic...IMO, because of @sneakypete 's arguing, the words are ignored by today's MOD Squad.

Thanks, Pete!   

[Idiot]

Just looking back at some of your earlier posts when you first joined TBR.... @sneakypete

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,192335.0.html
 

You even argued with RiV over it...

You have no problem with nicknames for Trump back in the day

Here you have an early example of you using the "orange" term... in some of your very first posts at TBR...

All the above posts didn't take long to curate, they were within a page or so of 1890 in your replies.  I forgot your "rude" remark, but you also pointed that out in your early posts.

[Cyber Liberty]

People change their minds when they perceive they are wrong.  I refuse to get on Pete's shit for that.  I may or may not agree with his current perception because I have a job here, and that ain't it.

[Bigun]

People change their minds when they perceive they are wrong.  I refuse to get on Pete's shit for that.  I may or may not agree with his current perception because I have a job here, and that ain't it.

Given all that Pete has dealt with health wise in recent years, I'm inclined to pass on it as well.