Author Topic: Ukraine 4  (Read 519508 times)

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1900 on: October 21, 2023, 01:54:59 pm »
Russian soldier poses in front of destroyed Akhmat.  Another confirmed armor kill by Ukraine.

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1901 on: October 21, 2023, 01:59:17 pm »
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1902 on: October 21, 2023, 02:03:02 pm »
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1903 on: October 21, 2023, 02:07:10 pm »
Putin pays visit to Gerasimov in Rostov for war update.

If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1904 on: October 21, 2023, 04:53:08 pm »
Putin pays visit to Gerasimov in Rostov for war update.

Heh...Gerasimov is looking more "robust" than usual. 
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1905 on: October 22, 2023, 08:16:21 am »
Giant Russian military plane explodes in fireball as it takes off from remote airbase with mystery cargo

Dramatic video captures huge 72-tonne II-76 transporter engulfed in flames
It's the second Russian-made II-76 aircraft to blow up on a runway in a month 

By WILL STEWART and TOM COTTERILL
21 October 2023

A giant Russian military plane exploded in a fireball as it took off from a remote airbase carrying a mystery cargo.

The 164ft Il-76 plane was on the runway when an engine erupted in flames, according to reports.

The aircraft rolled off the runway as the inferno spread, with dramatic video from the scene showing the 72-tonne jet engulfed in flames.

The crew and any passengers escaped before the blaze gripped the hulking military transporter, said reports.

There are believed to have been eight on board moving an unspecified military cargo.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12656267/Russian-military-transport-plane-explodes-Tajikistan.html

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1906 on: October 22, 2023, 08:20:48 am »
Ukraine breaks through enemy lines in Russia-controlled south: ‘Russian losses are really staggering’

By Matthew Sedacca
Published Oct. 21, 2023

Ukrainian forces ramped up their attacks on Russian-held territory in the south while holding off Moscow’s assaults on the eastern town of Avdiivka, according to military experts and officials.

The Ukrainian military broke through the enemy lines after intensified assaults across the Dnipro River, near the southern city of Kherson. 

“Ukrainian actions appear to be larger than previously observed tactical raids,” the think tank Institute for the Study of War said in a report. 

In the town of Avdiivka, just nine miles from the Moscow-controlled city of Donetsk in eastern Ukraine, Kyiv’s forces managed to repel and hold their ground against Russia, which launched relentless assaults there earlier this month, President Volodymyr Zelensky claimed.

“Thanks to all our boys, who powerfully hold the defense and destroy the occupier day after day,” Zelensky said in a video posted on Telegram.

“These days, the Russian losses are really staggering, and it is precisely losses by the occupier that Ukraine needs.”

Ukraine received new support from the United States in the form of long-range Army Tactical Missile Systems, or ATACMS, which were deployed for the first time this week.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba confirmed to reporters the U.S. would continue to supply Kyiv with the advanced missiles, The Telegraph reported.

Officials have said the ATACMS could help reshape the course of the war by allowing Ukraine’s troops to attack previously unreachable supply lines, air bases and rail networks used by Russia in occupied territories.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2023/10/21/ukraine-break-through-enemy-lines-in-russia-controlled-south/

Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1907 on: October 22, 2023, 09:23:07 am »
Ukraine breaks through enemy lines in Russia-controlled south: ‘Russian losses are really staggering’

By Matthew Sedacca
Published Oct. 21, 2023

Ukrainian forces ramped up their attacks on Russian-held territory in the south while holding off Moscow’s assaults on the eastern town of Avdiivka, according to military experts and officials.

The Ukrainian military broke through the enemy lines after intensified assaults across the Dnipro River, near the southern city of Kherson. 

“Ukrainian actions appear to be larger than previously observed tactical raids,” the think tank Institute for the Study of War said in a report. 

In the town of Avdiivka, just nine miles from the Moscow-controlled city of Donetsk in eastern Ukraine, Kyiv’s forces managed to repel and hold their ground against Russia, which launched relentless assaults there earlier this month, President Volodymyr Zelensky claimed.

“Thanks to all our boys, who powerfully hold the defense and destroy the occupier day after day,” Zelensky said in a video posted on Telegram.

“These days, the Russian losses are really staggering, and it is precisely losses by the occupier that Ukraine needs.”

Ukraine received new support from the United States in the form of long-range Army Tactical Missile Systems, or ATACMS, which were deployed for the first time this week.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba confirmed to reporters the U.S. would continue to supply Kyiv with the advanced missiles, The Telegraph reported.

Officials have said the ATACMS could help reshape the course of the war by allowing Ukraine’s troops to attack previously unreachable supply lines, air bases and rail networks used by Russia in occupied territories.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2023/10/21/ukraine-break-through-enemy-lines-in-russia-controlled-south/


This should be posted on the TOS.
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1908 on: October 22, 2023, 10:08:47 am »
Giant Russian military plane explodes in fireball as it takes off from remote airbase with mystery cargo
...

The Il-76 is similar in age and capability to the USAF C-141 Starlifter. Taking bits from the article, this fire happened in Dushanbe, Tajikistan. This particular Il-76 has, in the past, been used in supplying the Russian effort to conquer Ukraine.
I am not and never have been a leftist.

If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1909 on: October 22, 2023, 10:41:29 am »
Ukraine breaks through enemy lines in Russia-controlled south: ‘Russian losses are really staggering’
...

The article is kind of summarizing events of the past week, the "delay" being one of actually learning what happened instead of rushing something to print that is 60%-90% incorrect. Kudos, NYP!

Anyway, looking at the map of the area, most of the Sea of Azov's northern coast, the 400+ miles from Mariupol to the neck into the Crimean Peninsula at Armiansk is a 50-70 mile corridor through which Crimea can be supplied from Russia, or Russian troops along that northern from can be supplied from Russia or Crimea. That entire corridor is well within Ukraine's long range artillery. More to the point, Ukraine has been attacking, trying to beak through to cut off that corridor, one thrust toward Mariupol, and another between Melitopol and Berdyansk. This new attack, crossing at Kherson and toward Oleshky, is a third prong, and it widens the line of threat westward by another 20-40 miles (depending on the route Ukrainian for might be able to choose.

Re the helicopter base attacks, it appears that 20-25 helicopters were destroyed or rendered inoperable, as mentioned above. These are CAS and supply helicopters that are no longer supporting Russians protecting this 400-450 mile long corridor. One of the bases is in Berdyansk, within the corridor; the other is at Luhansk, just 200 miles from the eastern part of the corridor.
I am not and never have been a leftist.

If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1910 on: October 22, 2023, 10:45:55 am »
The Il-76 is similar in age and capability to the USAF C-141 Starlifter. Taking bits from the article, this fire happened in Dushanbe, Tajikistan. This particular Il-76 has, in the past, been used in supplying the Russian effort to conquer Ukraine.

Makes you wonder if there is some internal Russain sabotage going on.  I don't think Uke operatives would be able to reach assests in Tajikistan.  At least not on the ground.
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1911 on: October 22, 2023, 12:17:18 pm »

This should be posted on the TOS.

I did, and the usual suspects quickly appeared and tried to knock it down.
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Offline Hoodat

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline Hoodat

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1914 on: October 23, 2023, 10:51:27 am »
They really are orcs as their own Generals basically view them as expendable. These might be the prisoner/conscripts groups, who the leaders care nothing about.

Offline berdie

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1915 on: October 23, 2023, 04:26:29 pm »
Did anyone else read that Putin had some kind of major cardiac event.

It's sort of dropped of the news since I first saw it this a.m.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1916 on: October 23, 2023, 04:58:32 pm »
Did anyone else read that Putin had some kind of major cardiac event.

It's sort of dropped of the news since I first saw it this a.m.

I saw a bunch of those stories, but they all seem to rely on the same suspect source, so I would take it with a large grain of salt.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1917 on: October 24, 2023, 08:15:39 pm »
Ukraine’s Territorials Need Tanks. They’re Getting Them ... From Russia.

David Axe  |  Oct 24, 2023  |  06:21pm EDT


In the 21 months of Russia’s wider war on Ukraine, Ukrainian forces have captured at least 44 Russian T-62 tanks.

Never ones to waste an armored vehicle, no matter how old, the Ukrainians have converted some of the 1960s-vintage T-62s into engineering vehicles and infantry fighting vehicles.

The ex-Russian T-62s that are left over seem to have cascaded to Ukraine’s territorial brigades. A photo that circulated online on Tuesday depicts a 41-ton, four-person T-62M in service with the 110th Territorial Defense Brigade.

The T-62 is old. Its armor is just 215 millimeters thick at its thickest. Ukraine’s standard T-64 tank has three times as much protection. . .

. . . But for all its flaws as a tank, the T-62 is better than no tank at all. Which is why the 110th Territorial Brigade would happily add captured Russian T-62s to its order of battle. . .

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/10/24/ukraines-territorials-need-tanks-theyre-getting-them--from-russia/
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1918 on: October 25, 2023, 12:22:45 am »
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline mountaineer

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1919 on: October 26, 2023, 06:01:20 pm »
Slovakia has officially ended all military aid to Ukraine

https://twitter.com/narrative_hole/status/1717490332227522914
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1920 on: October 30, 2023, 03:58:55 pm »
According to a new profile by in Time magazine, "Zelensky feels betrayed by his Western allies." Yet "his belief in Ukraine’s ultimate victory over Russia... worries some of his advisers" and verges "on the messianic."

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1719066647431201197
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1921 on: October 30, 2023, 04:55:10 pm »
Hit piece on Zelensky from "some advisors."

So I guess Churchill's iron determination to win against Hitler was similarly "worrying" in November 1941, when he then felt betrayed by the U.S. and its refusal to do more than Lend-Lease at that time.
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1922 on: October 30, 2023, 06:15:11 pm »
Hit piece on Zelensky from "some advisors."

So I guess Churchill's iron determination to win against Hitler was similarly "worrying" in November 1941, when he then felt betrayed by the U.S. and its refusal to do more than Lend-Lease at that time.
Good point. I'd like to know what or who is behind this TIME profile.
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1923 on: October 30, 2023, 07:12:58 pm »
Good point. I'd like to know what or who is behind this TIME profile.

You know, the moral cowardice that has infected the U.S. and the West in general, and many Conservatives in particular, is appalling.
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1924 on: October 31, 2023, 10:00:42 am »
I find it curious Time would publish something negative about VZ, when the American media are so under the control of the Democrat party and pretty much write whatever the DNC orders. Does this mean the Democrats are turning on Zelenskyy?
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1925 on: October 31, 2023, 07:38:19 pm »
I find it curious Time would publish something negative about VZ, when the American media are so under the control of the Democrat party and pretty much write whatever the DNC orders. Does this mean the Democrats are turning on Zelenskyy?

Here is the article in full:  https://time.com/6329188/ukraine-volodymyr-zelensky-interview/

Interesting read.  It talks a lot about ongoing corruption in Ukraine and Zelenskiy's struggles to stop it while fighting a war.

As for the current US regime, they have made it obvious since the beginning that they do not want Ukraine to win this war any time soon.  They want the war to drag out as long as possible, (wrongly) thinking that this is the best way to bring about Putin's removal from office.  So they send cash instead of weapons and join in on the corruption.
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Offline Hoodat

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1927 on: November 02, 2023, 12:07:15 pm »
Ukraine’s commander-in-chief on the breakthrough he needs to beat Russia

https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/11/01/ukraines-commander-in-chief-on-the-breakthrough-he-needs-to-beat-russia

Quote
Five months into its counter-offensive, Ukraine has managed to advance by just 17 kilometres. Russia fought for ten months around Bakhmut in the east “to take a town six by six kilometres”. Sharing his first comprehensive assessment of the campaign with The Economist in an interview this week, Ukraine’s commander-in-chief, General Valery Zaluzhny, says the battlefield reminds him of the great conflict of a century ago. “Just like in the first world war we have reached the level of technology that puts us into a stalemate,” he says. The general concludes that it would take a massive technological leap to break the deadlock. “There will most likely be no deep and beautiful breakthrough.”

The course of the counter-offensive has undermined Western hopes that Ukraine could use it to demonstrate that the war is unwinnable, forcing Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin, to negotiate. It has also undercut General Zaluzhny’s assumption that he could stop Russia by bleeding its troops. “That was my mistake. Russia has lost at least 150,000 dead. In any other country such casualties would have stopped the war.” But not in Russia, where life is cheap and where Mr Putin’s reference points are the first and second world wars, in which Russia lost tens of millions.

An army of Ukraine’s standard ought to have been able to move at a speed of 30km a day as it breached Russian lines. “If you look at nato’s text books and at the maths which we did, four months should have been enough time for us to have reached Crimea, to have fought in Crimea, to return from Crimea and to have gone back in and out again,” General Zaluzhny says sardonically. Instead he watched his troops get stuck in minefields on the approaches to Bakhmut in the east, his Western-supplied equipment getting pummelled by Russian artillery and drones. The same story unfolded on the offensive’s main thrust in the south, where inexperienced brigades immediately ran into trouble.

“First I thought there was something wrong with our commanders, so I changed some of them. Then I thought maybe our soldiers are not fit for purpose, so I moved soldiers in some brigades,” says General Zaluzhny. When those changes failed to make a difference, the general told his staff to dig out a book he once saw as a student. Its title was “Breaching Fortified Defence Lines”. It was published in 1941 by a Soviet major-general, P.S. Smirnov, who analysed the battles of the first world war. “And before I got even halfway through it, I realised that is exactly where we are because just like then, the level of our technological development today has put both us and our enemies in a stupor.”

That thesis, he says, was borne out as he went to the front line in Avdiivka, also in the east, where Russia has recently advanced by a few hundred metres over several weeks by throwing in two of its armies. “On our monitor screens the day I was there we saw 140 Russian machines ablaze—destroyed within four hours of coming within firing range of our artillery.” Those fleeing were chased by “first-person-view” drones, remote-controlled and carrying explosive charges that their operators simply crash into the enemy. The same picture unfolds when Ukrainian troops try to advance. General Zaluzhny describes a battlefield in which modern sensors can identify any concentration of forces, and modern precision weapons can destroy it. “The simple fact is that we see everything the enemy is doing and they see everything we are doing. In order for us to break this deadlock we need something new, like the gunpowder which the Chinese invented and which we are still using to kill each other,” he says.

EXCERPT

This is a fairly insightful article and analysis, with some candid talk by Zaluzhny.
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Offline Hoodat

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Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1929 on: November 05, 2023, 12:31:06 am »
Russian assault on Avdiivka

from r/CombatFootage

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17ms6yh/ukrainian_2nd_mechanised_battalion_of_the/

All that misery for what?

You can bet a good number of those people don't want to be there. May Putin rot in hell.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1930 on: November 05, 2023, 02:03:29 am »
All that misery for what?



@DB

All of it so that Pooty-Poot can "prove" that he is a "Macho-Macho  Man".

Without HIM ever putting HIS ass on the line,of course.
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1931 on: November 05, 2023, 05:42:16 am »

Offline Timber Rattler

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1933 on: November 05, 2023, 05:51:02 pm »
Just...wow.

(WARNING: GRAPHIC/NSFW)

Those Russians had a really bad day.  Kudos to the discipline of the Ukrainians holding back their fire until the AFV was right on top of them.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1934 on: November 05, 2023, 05:59:36 pm »
Those Russians had a really bad day.  Kudos to the discipline of the Ukrainians holding back their fire until the AFV was right on top of them.

I can certainly see why there is a NSFW label on that video.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1935 on: November 05, 2023, 08:40:12 pm »
Russian vehicles are known death traps.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1936 on: November 05, 2023, 09:37:26 pm »
Russian vehicles are known death traps.

To be fair, so are most Ukrainian because they're the same.  The western equipment is much more crew-conscious.

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1937 on: November 07, 2023, 06:40:11 am »
Defense of Ukraine
@DefenceU
Additional NASAMS air defense systems have been put on combat duty — President @ZelenskyyUa
 

We are grateful to our partners for the timely reinforcement of our air defense before winter.

#StandWithUkraine

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1938 on: November 11, 2023, 08:13:18 pm »
Ukraine sinks two Russian landing boats in Crimea, military says\

Reuters  |  November 10, 20237:51 PM EST


KYIV - Ukrainian naval drones sank two small Russian landing boats in Crimea, Ukraine's military intelligence agency said on Friday, while troops braced for further Russian assaults in the east, particularly the shattered town of Avdiivka.

Reuters could not independently verify the report of the attack on Vuzka Bay in the west of Crimea, which one Ukrainian military analyst said was a significant strike and loss for Russia.

There was no immediate comment by Russia, which seized and annexed the Crimea peninsula from Ukraine in 2014 and whose Black Sea Fleet is headquartered in the Crimean city of Sevastopol.

An initial report from Ukraine's military intelligence said the two small, amphibious Russian ships had been hit overnight.

A Friday evening update said the attack had been carried out by naval drones. It identified one landing craft as an Akula class vessel, the other a Serna class.  .  .

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-damages-two-small-russian-landing-boats-crimea-kyiv-says-2023-11-10/
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline Hoodat

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1940 on: November 12, 2023, 02:21:54 pm »
These days the word "Armor" is synonymous with the words "Missile Magnet".

Tanks as now as obsolete as bicycles on a battlefield.
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Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1941 on: November 12, 2023, 03:06:33 pm »
These days the word "Armor" is synonymous with the words "Missile Magnet".

Tanks as now as obsolete as bicycles on a battlefield.

Armor is the last place I'd want to be on the modern battlefield.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1942 on: November 13, 2023, 09:58:23 am »
Armor is the last place I'd want to be on the modern battlefield.

Even in Iraq they were basically target I think too. I mean, armored warfare needs to adjust to the 21st century. Anti-drone, anti-missile tech needs to adjust, then maybe armor will be relevant. The Russian military just put seemingly zero resources into anticipating these types of threats.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1943 on: November 13, 2023, 10:09:13 am »
It's not the armor per se, it's the tactics.  Sure, armor has its vulnerabilities.  But the idiotic way The Russians are using it only exacerbates those vulnerabilities.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1944 on: November 13, 2023, 10:27:32 am »
It's not the armor per se, it's the tactics.  Sure, armor has its vulnerabilities.  But the idiotic way The Russians are using it only exacerbates those vulnerabilities.

@Hoodat

Nope. Armor HAS to appear on a battlefield to be useful,and  there is NO getting around the FACT that they are big-ass targets that put out a LOT of heat and noise,and there is no way in hell to disguise them as anything other than what they are.

They were able to maneuver out of artillery and air strikes to a certain degree for decades,but those days are OVER. Everybody that has an army now has smart missiles that cost pennies on the dollar of what armor costs,not to mention no lives risked,that are controlled by technicians controlling them via cameras from safe bunkers that are not even in the same country as the battle that is going on.

Armor is now obsolete for everyone but third world nations trying to protect themselves from their third world neighbors,but once the armor they have no starts to wear out,they will replace it with missiles too,because missiles are a hell of a lot cheaper than a tank,and there is no crew to spend mega-bucks on to train them on how to operate for the 15 minutes of actual combat they will live through.

Armor in first world nations is now  nothing  more than a rolling crematorium for the crew members.

I strongly suspect that within  the next  20 years there will be no more fighter or bomber pilots flying inside the actual aircraft,either. They too,will be piloted by "pilots" hundreds of miles away in concrete bunkers via remote controls.

The USAF IS going to fight this one tooth  and nail with the Pentagram,but the days of the USAF as anything more than an air taxi service IS coming to an  end thanks to robotics. I SUSPECT there WILL be pilots riding as passengers/pilots  in waiting in attack aircraft for a while in case the electronics are jammed by the enemy  or go bad for some reason,but that's about it.

The US Navy will probably hold out the longest because they can cruise around in the oceans forever with a deck full of armed fighter/bomber aircraft on call for immediate use in situations nobody has time to write code to cover,but that's about it.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1945 on: November 13, 2023, 10:30:28 am »
Even in Iraq they were basically target I think too. I mean, armored warfare needs to adjust to the 21st century. Anti-drone, anti-missile tech needs to adjust, then maybe armor will be relevant. The Russian military just put seemingly zero resources into anticipating these types of threats.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

The Soviets don't seem to  give  a damn  how many Russians they lose,as long as none of them are politicians in leadership  positions. Hell,they might even be happy to lose them because it will be fewer mouths to feed and fewer potential rebels to keep control over.

Make no mistake about it,ALL Communist nations are nothing less than police states created to serve their Masters,not their people.
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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1946 on: November 13, 2023, 10:39:29 am »
In totalitarian regimes, people are expendable, disposable property of the State.

If Mad Vlad needs more cannon fodder, he'll conscript more bodies, most likely from prisons first.
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1947 on: November 18, 2023, 03:16:38 pm »
Andrew Pollack
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Nobody hates Israel more than Zelenskyy right now I haven’t heard from that little weasel in a month.
2:59 PM · Nov 18, 2023
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Offline DB

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1948 on: November 18, 2023, 04:41:54 pm »
Andrew Pollack
@AndrewPollackFL
Nobody hates Israel more than Zelenskyy right now I haven’t heard from that little weasel in a month.
2:59 PM · Nov 18, 2023

Yet if Andrew Pollack found himself in Zelenskyy's shoes he'd run off and hide in another country. It's easy to run your mouth when you don't bare the responsibility of trying to guide your country through a Russian invasion and with a bounty on your head. Ukraine has done something no one thought they could. Pollack can go F'off.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1949 on: November 18, 2023, 04:52:07 pm »
Yet if Andrew Pollack found himself in Zelenskyy's shoes he'd run off and hide in another country. It's easy to run your mouth when you don't bare the responsibility of trying to guide your country through a Russian invasion and with a bounty on your head. Ukraine has done something no one thought they could. Pollack can go F'off.

 :amen: