Ukraine 4

[catfish1957]

Take it up with the corrupt American regime.

Furthermore, I'm not entirely sure what good howitzers, artillery rounds, or tanks would go in Ohio, or any other domestic disaster.  After all, that is what Ukraine has been getting - armaments, not dollars.

Or maybe one would prefer that all those American weapons be sold on the world arms markets - to the highest bidders, of course - in order to reduce them to cash, which after corrupt Americans take 20% or 30%, could be spent on left-wing NGOs to "help" in those locations?

Full deflective mode, and everybody knows it.  Weapons = Money.......   and you know it.  Making them analogous is beyond silly.

Bottom line, is that you are now part of the enviro-whacko circuit, by supporting him.

[Kamaji]

That may be the one most freaking silliest thing I have ever heard you say at TBR.   Conservatives sending tax money to another near dicatator?  That's a conservative tenant nowadays?  Say what just said 3 times in succession, and realize how f'n funny you sound.

And the more silly comment about the CSA?  Yeah, we lost.....   But outside the abhorant slavery issue, just what did the C.S.A. get wrong?  We'd be 10000% better off without a super on-steroid government money wasting machine that we have right now.  I bet a state focused and empowered government wouldn't be $33T in debt right now either.

Which "near dictator" would that be?  And what "money" would that be?

[Kamaji]

Full deflective mode, and everybody knows it.  Weapons = Money.......   and you know it.  Making them analogous is beyond silly.

Bottom line, is that you are now part of the enviro-whacko circuit, by supporting him.

Bullshit.  The weapons Ukraine has received are out of inventory - which needs to be turned over in any event - so that would do precious little good in Ohio.

As far as providing more support to Ohio - I completely agree - but that is a failure of the corrupt administration this country elected, and has nothing to do with Ukraine.

That is a false equivalency.

[catfish1957]

Which "near dictator" would that be?  And what "money" would that be?

You don't consider Zellinsky a dictator?  Man have you been duped. And money?  I guess the $100B's to Ukraine, were just an illusion huh?

[catfish1957]

Bullshit.  The weapons Ukraine has received are out of inventory - which needs to be turned over in any event - so that would do precious little good in Ohio.

As far as providing more support to Ohio - I completely agree - but that is a failure of the corrupt administration this country elected, and has nothing to do with Ukraine.

That is a false equivalency.

You admit it. Based on your interpretation, your equivalency incudes  you endorsing a corrupt administration to fiscally properly manage sending $B's to Ukraine.  Can't have both ways big guy.

And BTW, why no comments around Zell's ephiphany around climate change?  Just wondering....

[sneakypete]

No conservative should be praising the Confederate States of America.  A true conservative should be happy that we are sending money to weaken Russia.

@kevindavis007

These are the only options for dealing with Russia.

1:Declare war against them,and then start an actual war to remove their leadership and end communism in Russia.

2a:Ignore them and hope they just go away leave us alone.

2b: Surrender to them when 1 and 2a don't work,and hope they are gentle when they occupy  us.

4:Let someone with a more immediate interest (immediate self-defense) in defeating them do the fighting and dying,while sending them the supplies they need to do the job.

ANYBODY that doesn't pick number 4 is  a retard.

[Bigun]

That may be the one most freaking silliest thing I have ever heard you say at TBR.   Conservatives sending tax money to another near dicatator?  That's a conservative tenant nowadays?  Say what just said 3 times in succession, and realize how f'n funny you sound.

And the more silly comment about the CSA?  Yeah, we lost.....   But outside the abhorant slavery issue, just what did the C.S.A. get wrong?  We'd be 10000% better off without a super on-steroid government money wasting machine that we have right now.  I bet a state focused and empowered government wouldn't be $33T in debt right now either.

  and  again

[Hoodat]

Bump, and does someone want to defend Zellniskyyyyyyyyyy here on this one?

Are we still patiently waiting for evidence of Zelenskiy corruption?  Or have the goal posts been ripped up and moved on to something else?

[Hoodat]

It’s called playing to the audience, and it’s part of the Western/American corruption Zelenskyy has to deal with in order to obtain the weapons he needs to continue fighting against the Russian orcs.

If you don’t like it, then you should be taking it up with your own leaders - Joe Biden and the democrats - first.  They’re the ones who are corrupt and who demand obeisance to the eco-fascism as part of the quid pro quo for the weapons Ukraine needs for its existence. 

Yep.

[Kamaji]

You don't consider Zellinsky a dictator?  Man have you been duped. And money?  I guess the $100B's to Ukraine, were just an illusion huh?

No more than I would have considered Winston Churchll a dictator during WWII, when the UK suspended elections for the duration.

Talk about being duped, please go find a mirror - anything reflective will do.

[Kamaji]

Are we still patiently waiting for evidence of Zelenskiy corruption?  Or have the goal posts been ripped up and moved on to something else?

Oh, they've been moved.  Zelenskyy is corrupt, dontcha know, solely on the word of Putin's supporters.  No need for evidence.

[Hoodat]

Wow, tell that to the fire victims of Lahaina, East Palastine, Ohio, victims of Hurricane Idalia, and basically all of the rest us who are suffering under a southern invasion from Mexico.  Tell us again, why Zellinskigrift is more deserving of our tax dollars than us.

Because it is much easier for corrupt friends of Biden to siphon off cash earmarked for overseas than to siphon off cash earmarked for East Palestine, Ohio.

[ScottinVA]

"1" I almost stopped right there and realized your level of naivetity.  Global Warming/Climate Change zealots and enviro-whackos are this world's biggest threat.  Funny how a really decent snake oil salesman can cause so many to  ditch their principals and become allies with the like of Thunberg, Biden, Kerry, and Trudeau.  You are playing into their hands.

"2" Show me, I mean absolutely show me, where I am a supporter of Putin, in my entire posting history.  I dare you.  Otherwise....retract!!!!

Overall, you are good guy, but everyone once in a while, I got to speak up on our fleecing by Eastern European grifters. 
As a taxpayer, I am sick as hell of it.

Naïveté?  Please.  The only naive ones around here are those who “think” Russia doesn’t have designs beyond Ukraine and that employing the head-in-the-sand isolationist approach will just make that tawdry issue simply go away.  If you don’t stand for freedom, then don’t.  The right-minded among us do.  Taking a stand is sometimes messy, but failure to do so in order to weaken an enemy is the utmost in failure.  This issue isn’t about Zelensky; as I said, I don’t care about him… it’s about the people of Ukraine taking a stand against a brutal and evil invading horde that has a history of hegemony beyond anyone else. As for whether you personally support Putin is not the point; the fact is, many who disguise themselves as “patriots” do indeed back Putin. 

[catfish1957]

And in that flurry of deflective responses from my good buddies Kam and Hood, I heard nothing about Z's Climate change comments in any level of detail.  You realize he's fully aligned with Greta, Biden, and Kerry.......   But I guess that doesn't bother you.

Ex. playing to the audience?  Come on, you, I and others fry the Orange POTUS for that all the time.  But you give Zellinsky a pass for it?  At least stay consistent.

This Uke leader has you two hynonitized or something.  If you do get his ear, tell him many of us rather keep our tax dollars here, we are sick of it.

[Hoodat]

Taking a stand is sometimes messy, but failure to do so in order to weaken an enemy is the utmost in failure.  This issue isn’t about Zelensky; as I said, I don’t care about him… it’s about the people of Ukraine taking a stand against a brutal and evil invading horde that has a history of hegemony beyond anyone else.

AMEN  AMEN  AMEN

(Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.)

[ScottinVA]

@kevindavis007

These are the only options for dealing with Russia.

1:Declare war against them,and then start an actual war to remove their leadership and end communism in Russia.

2a:Ignore them and hope they just go away leave us alone.

2b: Surrender to them when 1 and 2a don't work,and hope they are gentle when they occupy  us.

4:Let someone with a more immediate interest (immediate self-defense) in defeating them do the fighting and dying,while sending them the supplies they need to do the job.

ANYBODY that doesn't pick number 4 is  a retard.

[Hoodat]

And in that flurry of deflective responses from my good buddies Kam and Hood, I heard nothing about Z's Climate change comments in any level of detail. 

I typically do not respond to strawman arguments.  Not seeing how those comments have a damn thing to do with stopping Russia and liberating Ukraine from death, destruction, and genocide.

[Kamaji]

And in that flurry of deflective responses from my good buddies Kam and Hood, I heard nothing about Z's Climate change comments in any level of detail.  You realize he's fully aligned with Greta, Biden, and Kerry.......   But I guess that doesn't bother you.

Ex. playing to the audience?  Come on, you, I and others fry the Orange POTUS for that all the time.  But you give Zellinsky a pass for it?  At least stay consistent.

This Uke leader has you two hynonitized or something.  If you do get his ear, tell him many of us rather keep our tax dollars here, we are sick of it.

Already addressed:  as I said earlier, he is parroting to his audience what they want to hear - it is the price he must pay for American corruption in order to obtain the weapons he needs to resist the Russian orc.

I do stay consistent - Trump is not forced to lie to his audience, he lies because he enjoys it - Zelenskyy is forced to parrot the vices of American corruption because there is no other way to get what he needs.

The core problem here is American corruption, not your imagined, but wholly unsupported, accusations of Zelensky's corruption.

[Kamaji]

Naïveté?  Please.  The only naive ones around here are those who “think” Russia doesn’t have designs beyond Ukraine and that employing the head-in-the-sand isolationist approach will just make that tawdry issue simply go away.  If you don’t stand for freedom, then don’t.  The right-minded among us do.  Taking a stand is sometimes messy, but failure to do so in order to weaken an enemy is the utmost in failure.  This issue isn’t about Zelensky; as I said, I don’t care about him… it’s about the people of Ukraine taking a stand against a brutal and evil invading horde that has a history of hegemony beyond anyone else. As for whether you personally support Putin is not the point; the fact is, many who disguise themselves as “patriots” do indeed back Putin. 

[mystery-ak]

Please stay on topic and stop the personal insults..

[catfish1957]

I typically do not respond to strawman arguments.  Not seeing how those comments have a damn thing to do with stopping Russia and liberating Ukraine from death, destruction, and genocide.

Strawman?   

Need to change sn to "Deflectman"

These are direct quotes, and empassioned ones I might add. There was no doubt of its interpretation.   Face facts....  you are allied with Z, Greta, Kerry, and Biden on this via your support of him and his enviro-whacked agenda, and you can't hide behind that.

[Bigun]

As I've said several times before on this thread, I'm fine with providing aid to Ukraine so long as that aid excludes piles of $$$. I'm done!

[catfish1957]

I also do hope that everyone realizes the Climate Change Enviro-whacko agenda that Zellinsky has offically endorsed is indirectly responsible for the war being waged between the two countries.

Since day 1, of Biden's attack on Fossil Fuels, starting with Keystone/XL in the name of climate change......  has caused oil to go from a relatiively stabilized price or $55-60/bbl to one that has been generally $85-120/bbl. Who do you think has incrementally  benerfited the most from these higher prices?

[catfish1957]

As I've said several times before on this thread, I'm fine with providing aid to Ukraine so long as that aid excludes piles of $$$. I'm done!

Ditto!!!!  Or if somehow we could get the money there without it changing hands with its leaders.

[Hoodat]

As I've said several times before on this thread, I'm fine with providing aid to Ukraine so long as that aid excludes piles of $$$. I'm done!

Glad to finally have you on board.  Most of us here have been saying exactly that for over a year and a half.

[Kamaji]

Glad to finally have you on board.  Most of us here have been saying exactly that for over a year and a half.

[PeteS in CA]

Please stay on topic and stop the personal insults..

  !

[sneakypete]

Oh, they've been moved.  Zelenskyy is corrupt, dontcha know, solely on the word of Putin's supporters.  No need for evidence.

@Kamaji

HEY!

If  you can't trust Putin,his supporters,and the surrender monkey's,who CAN you trust?

Git wid da program,bubba!

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Zelensky may be corrupt. That doesn't change the fact that naked aggression by Russia in Europe must be opposed.

[ScottinVA]

Exactly!!!

[sneakypete]

Zelensky may be corrupt. That doesn't change the fact that naked aggression by Russia in Europe must be opposed.

@Maj. Bill Martin

Also,the question of "Who is most dangerous to world peace,both now and in the future,Zelensky and Ukraine,or Putin and the USSR?" MUST be asked  and answered.

Anything we can  do short of providing combat troops MUST be done if it can weaken the Communist stranglehold over a nation that  wants to be free of communism.

WE are not fighting in this war. All that WE are doing is providing the tools that Ukraine needs to do her own  fighting,and a free and independent Ukraine just MIGHT be the "trigger" necessary to encourage other Soviet slave states to demand THEIR freedoms,also.

[Bigun]

Glad to finally have you on board.  Most of us here have been saying exactly that for over a year and a half.

LOL! I've been saying the exact same thing since day one. @Hoodat

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Maj. Bill Martin

Also,the question of "Who is most dangerous to world peace,both now and in the future,Zelensky and Ukraine,or Putin and the USSR?" MUST be asked  and answered.

You nailed it.

I don't much care about the internal policies of those two countries, but what I absolutely do care about is the threat they present to other nations.   Ukraine is no threat militarily to anyone else - Russia most definitely is.  That's the beginning and end of the analysis for me.

[Kamaji]

Suspected drone strike blows up oil depot near Vladimir Putin’s Sochi palace

By Emily Crane
Published Sep. 20, 2023

A suspected drone strike sent an oil depot up in flames in the Russian Black Sea resort of Sochi early Wednesday — just miles from one of President Vladimir Putin’s palaces.

Footage circulating on social media showed huge flames and plumes of smoke billowing from a fuel tank — which had the name of one of Russia’s main oil companies, Rosneft, on it — in the early hours as fire crews worked to douse the blaze.

The fire broke out near Sochi International Airport, which is close to the popular beach and mountain resort where the 2014 Winter Olympics were held and where Putin’s sprawling summer residence is located.

Authorities didn’t immediately provide a cause for the huge fire, saying it was still under investigation.

But the Telegram channel Baza, which is known to be close to Russian security services, claimed the blaze was the result of a drone strike.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2023/09/20/suspected-drone-strike-blows-up-oil-depot-near-putins-sochi-palace/

[PeteS in CA]

There might be multiple messages in this drone strike. Obviously, some oil that might have fueled Russia's invaders and/or navy went up in flames. But there's a geographic message as well. Russia's Black Sea Fleet has two major bases. The one in Crimea has been attacked recently, being well within range of Ukrainian long range assets. The other major base, Novorossiysk, is farther away from Ukrainian controlled territory. Sochi is even farther than Novorossiysk. The Russian navy was told in blunt "language" that this base, too, is subject to attack. Ukraine does not need to sink ships to overcome the Black Sea Fleet. Mission-killing enough ships to overwhelm all repair facilities would be almost as effective. Periodic attacks on main ports would be part of such a strategy.

[Hoodat]

LOL! I've been saying the exact same thing since day one. @Hoodat

@Bigun   -  My bad.  I mixed you up with Catfish.  My apologies.

[Hoodat]

Suspected drone strike blows up oil depot near Vladimir Putin’s Sochi palace

from r/UkraineWarVideoReport

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/16ndytg/in_sochi_russia_an_oil_reservoir_is_on_fire/

[Hoodat]

from r/UkraineWarVideoReport

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/16nzoq3/more_russian_counterattacks_near/

[Bigun]

@Bigun   -  My bad.  I mixed you up with Catfish.  My apologies.

  

[Smokin Joe]

Zelensky may be corrupt. That doesn't change the fact that naked aggression by Russia in Europe must be opposed.

Thank you.
The seminal issue. I'm nor even sure how corrupt Zelensky is compared to some of the people he has to tread lightly with or placate to get the materiel aid he needs to fight. A hat tip to the whole climate change thing, a real hot topic with the UN crowd, does not put him licking Greta's toes or any of that other nonsense, it's just the price of admission to get to the mike. If someone wants to go tearing down that rabbit hole, go for it, but it is a minor distraction, especially when you consider the 'carbon footprint'  of fighting a war, blowing things up and burning them down, and the fuel it takes to get to the things you blow up and burn down.

One of the greatest impediments to rational discussion is the failure to discern shades of gray between black and white. When the meter either pegs at one end or the other, it isn't a gauge any more, it's an idiot light.

[Kamaji]

Thank you.
The seminal issue. I'm nor even sure how corrupt Zelensky is compared to some of the people he has to tread lightly with or placate to get the materiel aid he needs to fight. A hat tip to the whole climate change thing, a real hot topic with the UN crowd, does not put him licking Greta's toes or any of that other nonsense, it's just the price of admission to get to the mike. If someone wants to go tearing down that rabbit hole, go for it, but it is a minor distraction, especially when you consider the 'carbon footprint'  of fighting a war, blowing things up and burning them down, and the fuel it takes to get to the things you blow up and burn down.

One of the greatest impediments to rational discussion is the failure to discern shades of gray between black and white. When the meter either pegs at one end or the other, it isn't a gauge any more, it's an idiot light.

[kevindavis007]

Listen up! Let me make it crystal clear why it's imperative that we provide aid to Ukraine without deploying our troops:

1. Russia and China are in cahoots, and their alliance spells trouble for our country. We can't afford to let them get stronger!

2. By keeping Russia tied up in Ukraine, we can weaken both Russia and China, which is essential for the well-being of our country.


ANY QUESTIONS??? 

[catfish1957]

Listen up! Let me make it crystal clear why it's imperative that we provide aid to Ukraine without deploying our troops:

1. Russia and China are in cahoots, and their alliance spells trouble for our country. We can't afford to let them get stronger!

2. By keeping Russia tied up in Ukraine, we can weaken both Russia and China, which is essential for the well-being of our country.


ANY QUESTIONS???

sez, the silly comic con guy in a star trek suit......   (I saw your profile)

Big tough talk coming from what amounts to a Sheldon Cooper clown wannabe.   What a laugh.

That same money should be toward deploying assets to protect our southern border.

ANY QUESTIONS??? 

LISTEN UP?  You can't be for real.

[kevindavis007]

sez, the silly comic con guy in a star trek suit......   (I saw your profile)

Big tough talk coming from what amounts to a Sheldon Cooper clown wannabe.   What a laugh.

That same money should be toward deploying assets to protect our southern border.

ANY QUESTIONS??? 

LISTEN UP?  You can't be for real.

Said the person who thinks the Confederate States of America was just in leaving the Union.

[catfish1957]

Said the person who thinks the Confederate States of America was just in leaving the Union.

Liar.   I said "Outside Slavery, what did the south get wrong". Show me anywhere I said it was just,     Which by the way......   You didn't answer!!  If you have to lie at the onset, you've lost the narrative.

Additionally, you really think I take anything you say seriously?  Move along (at Warp 9.5 if necessary), comic boy, and let the grownups discuss the issues.

[Bigun]

Said the person who thinks the Confederate States of America was just in leaving the Union.

Can you direct me to the word or phrase in the Constitution that says a state cannot leave the union? I have diligently searched for that and came up empty. @kevindavis007

[sneakypete]

Thank you.
The seminal issue. I'm nor even sure how corrupt Zelensky is compared to some of the people he has to tread lightly with or placate to get the materiel aid he needs to fight. A hat tip to the whole climate change thing, a real hot topic with the UN crowd, does not put him licking Greta's toes or any of that other nonsense, it's just the price of admission to get to the mike. If someone wants to go tearing down that rabbit hole, go for it, but it is a minor distraction, especially when you consider the 'carbon footprint'  of fighting a war, blowing things up and burning them down, and the fuel it takes to get to the things you blow up and burn down.

One of the greatest impediments to rational discussion is the failure to discern shades of gray between black and white. When the meter either pegs at one end or the other, it isn't a gauge any more, it's an idiot light.

@Smokin Joe

GREAT post!

Thank  you!

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Can you direct me to the word or phrase in the Constitution that says a state cannot leave the union? I have diligently searched for that and came up empty. @kevindavis007

On the converse, what is the threshold at which a locality should be able to leave the union? Can I vote for my household to leave the country?

[Bigun]

On the converse, what is the threshold at which a locality should be able to leave the union? Can I vote for my household to leave the country?

You don't need to vote on it. You are free to do that at any time you choose.

[sneakypete]

Can you direct me to the word or phrase in the Constitution that says a state cannot leave the union? I have diligently searched for that and came up empty. @kevindavis007

@Bigun

EXCELLENT question,and maybe a soon-to-be pertinent one,given the way things are going.