Ukraine 4

[Hoodat]

Zelenskyy calls for “long-range capabilities” for air defense in aftermath of Russian bombing of Kharkiv

Karina Bondar - 30 August 2024 | 18:50

UKRAINE, KHARKIV, Aug 30 —  Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy made an address in the aftermath of the Russian glide bomb attack on Kharkiv. The glide bomb attack killed at least five, including a 14-year-old girl, and injured 47 people.

Russian army attacks Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second city, often because it’s close to the border and the frontline. Their attacks intensified significantly since Moscow launched a new ground offensive north of the Kharkiv region in May.

“This strike was by a Russian glide aerial bomb. A strike that would not have happened if our defense forces could destroy Russian military aircraft where they are based. We need strong decisions from our partners to stop this terror. This is an absolutely fair need. And there is no rational reason to limit Ukraine’s defense. We need long-range capabilities. We need the implementation of air defense agreements for Ukraine. This is about saving lives,” Zelenskyy said.

Authorities reported that the Russians dropped five glide bombs on at least two districts of the city.  .  .  .

https://gwaramedia.com/en/zelenskyy-calls-for-long-range-capabilities-for-air-defense-in-aftermath-of-russian-bombing-of-kharkiv/

[catfish1957]

The US has yet to deliver any aircraft to Ukraine.

So who's F-16 is it?  Some EU, Aussie, Candadian, etc. taxpayer paid for it.

[PeteS in CA]

No pontoon bridges for you!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CTHe_N3sn0


The video shows the aftermath of a 28/8 strike on a Russian convoy in Kursk carrying equipment and materials to build pontoon bridges.

[PeteS in CA]

So who's F-16 is it?  Some EU, Aussie, Candadian, etc. taxpayer paid for it.

You were too eager to post a snark to learn from which continent the F-16 came?

As was posted yesterday. blue-on-blue incidents happen in war. This probably was not Ukraine's first, and quite a few Russian air-air, air-ground, and ground-air are known to have happened.

[Kamaji]

So who's F-16 is it?  Some EU, Aussie, Candadian, etc. taxpayer paid for it.

Yeah, so I guess we should just force Ukraine to surrender to Russia unconditionally now; 'cause no self-respecting country would ever, ever, ever have a friendly fire incident.

[Hoodat]

The task given to these F-16 pilots was to intercept SS-26 Iskander missiles which the Russians are using en masse to target Ukrainian civilian areas and terrorize the Ukrainian people.  Some of these missiles that target civilians have been armed with cluster munitions in direct violation of current global treaties.

On this particular day, Russia had launched over 200 missiles and drones targeting Ukrainian civilians.  With so many targets to interdict, it is likely that there were two Ukrainian fighters in the same area, and that an intercepting missile fired by one missed the incoming missile and ended up hitting the F-16.

It is a tragedy indeed.  But from Ukraine's perspective, it is a risk worth taking to prevent this from happening.  They have been under attack from these missiles for over 2½ years with zero defense against them other than fighter aircraft.  And for 2½ years, they have been begging for fighter aircraft to defend their civilians from these barbaric attacks.  And for two years, the Biden regime blocked them from attaining any fighters.

Consider that F-16s are older than the MiG-29s that Ukraine originally asked for.  These pictures below show why they need them:

Odesa



Dnipro




Dnipro hospital



Kryvyi Rih



Kharkiv





Selydove



Kramatorsk



Mariupol (before occupation)



Kyiv





Zaporizhzhia



Contrary to what one certain poster here has said, the Russians are NOT "liberators and protectors".  The ones responsible for this are mass murdering tyrannical barbarians who should burn in hell for coveting Ukrainian land and starting this war.

[catfish1957]

GEEEEZ guys...

I support Ukraine, and I consider you both conservatives....  but what kind of conservative  has no problem dropping $63M into a fireball, and not even blink. 

Does that sound like conservatism?  Think about it...   We could prevent a lot of illegals with that kind of money. And even better....  not add $63M more to the national debt.

[catfish1957]

Yeah, so I guess we should just force Ukraine to surrender to Russia unconditionally now; 'cause no self-respecting country would ever, ever, ever have a friendly fire incident.

?????

Bears to ask....   If you have less than a handful of F-16's....   How does a friendly fire incident happen in the first place.  If I was Zelllinkwhatever, I think I would handle gifts like this with kid gloves.

[catfish1957]

You were too eager to post a snark to learn from which continent the F-16 came?

As was posted yesterday. blue-on-blue incidents happen in war. This probably was not Ukraine's first, and quite a few Russian air-air, air-ground, and ground-air are known to have happened.

Did Ukraine manufacture this jet?  How many do they have?  According to Rueters it was 27 at most.  Bears again to ask.  If you only have a couple of dozen, how do have a friendly fire incident?

The defense of this by conservatives (at $63M/ea.  by someone) is puzzling.

I say this as a beyond angry U.S. taxpayer who has paid way way way way more than his fair share in taxes

[Hoodat]

?????

Bears to ask....   If you have less than a handful of F-16's....   How does a friendly fire incident happen in the first place.  If I was Zelllinkwhatever, I think I would handle gifts like this with kid gloves.

@catfish1957

The F-16s that Ukraine received from the Netherlands and Denmark were built in the early 80s.  They are not $63 million aircraft.  In fact, they are considerably older than the MiG-29s Ukraine recently received from Poland and Slovakia.  They are also missing the beacon technology that prevents such friendly fire incidents (by order of the Biden regime).  These versions retailed for about $15 million 40 years ago.

You want to talk money?  Examine the photos above and show me one that has less than $15 million in damage.  Clearly, Ukraine believes it is worth risking them to prevent the next Russian strike against their civilians.

And as far as kid gloves go, it's not like they are engaged in combat sorties over Belgorod or Rostov.  The one that got hit was being used solely in a defensive role.

[catfish1957]

I wish the Ukrainan people the best, but have a deep distrust of their leader.  His alliances with our worst domestic poliitical enemies is a good square 1.  In a perfect world, both Zellinsky and Putin would be eliminated.   

[Hoodat]

Did Ukraine manufacture this jet?  How many do they have?  According to Rueters it was 27 at most.  Bears again to ask.  If you only have a couple of dozen, how do have a friendly fire incident?

@catfish1957

Consider two jets in the same sky trying to intercept incoming supersonic Iskander missiles.  One jet fires at an Iskander.  The intercepting anti-air missile misses the Iskander, finds the other fighter jet, and locks in on it.

The US uses technology that prevents a US-fired missile from striking a US jet.  This technology was developed because the US has had its own friendly fire events.  Unfortunately, that technology was stripped off of these fighters before transferring them to Ukraine.

Ukraine asked for the fighters because it was the only means they had at defending themselves against supersonic missiles which the Russians use on a daily basis to target  Ukrainian civilians.  Now that they have them, they intend to use them.  Because you can't intercept missiles with you fighters parked in hangars because your afraid of losing them in battle.

The defense of this by conservatives (at $63M/ea.  by someone) is puzzling.

These fighters are over 40 years old.  And they were given to Ukraine by European countries - not the US.  Don't you want Europe picking up more of the tab?  That is exactly what they are trying to do.  And Biden has been blocking them.

I say this as a beyond angry U.S. taxpayer who has paid way way way way more than his fair share in taxes

Then you should be pissed about Biden giving $40 billion to the US State Department (some of which is now being poured back into Kamala's election chest) instead of expressing outrage at Ukraine for losing a fighter donated to them by Denmark.  Trump should be all on board with this.  Because NATO is now doing EXACTLY what he asked for.  NATO countries are lining up to donate weapons to Ukraine while the US exudes weakness on the world stage.

[Hoodat]

I wish the Ukrainan people the best, but have a deep distrust of their leader.  His alliances with our worst domestic poliitical enemies is a good square 1.  In a perfect world, both Zellinsky and Putin would be eliminated.

When Zelenskiy begins bombing Russian apartments, schools, and hospitals, kidnapping Russian children and shipping them back to Ukraine, sending his soldiers into Russian cities to rape women and execute civilians, and destroying entire Russian cities wholesale through massive bombardment, then and only then can we talk about a perfect world where Zelenskiy and Putin are on the same level.

[catfish1957]

When Zelenskiy begins bombing Russian apartments, schools, and hospitals, kidnapping Russian children and shipping them back to Ukraine, sending his soldiers into Russian cities to rape women and execute civilians, and destroying entire Russian cities wholesale through massive bombardment, then and only then can we talk about a perfect world where Zelenskiy and Putin are on the same level.

Even if Putin is 5X more despicable than Zellinsky, That still makes Zellinsky despicable.  And his incessant spending of my tax dollars?   

Sorry....  I will never kiss this POS' ass.

[PeteS in CA]

The F-16s that Ukraine received from the Netherlands and Denmark were built in the early 80s.  They are not $63 million aircraft.  In fact, they are considerably older than the MiG-29s Ukraine recently received from Poland and Slovakia.  They are also missing the beacon technology that prevents such friendly fire incidents (by order of the Biden regime).  These versions retailed for about $15 million 40 years ago.

You want to talk money?  Examine the photos above and show me one that has less than $15 million in damage.  Clearly, Ukraine believes it is worth risking them to prevent the next Russian strike against their civilians.
...

After actually looking at those examples of what Russia does to cause civilian death and suffering, consider the service Ukraine has been doing for the world for 2 1/2 years, grinding down Russia's tank forces, cadre of experienced army members, and air force, and the destruction of Russia's Black Sea fleet and exposure of the porosity of Russia's SAM systems. 30 or 100 very used 40-year-old F-16s that are already being replaced by F-35s(?) is a very inexpensive "Thank you" for dealing Russia's military forces and imperial ambitions a blow from which recovery could take 10 or 20 years.

[Hoodat]

Sorry....  I will never kiss this POS' ass.

No one is asking you to do that.  No one.

I would only ask that you recognize evil.

[Smokin Joe]

GEEEEZ guys...

I support Ukraine, and I consider you both conservatives....  but what kind of conservative  has no problem dropping $63M into a fireball, and not even blink. 

Does that sound like conservatism?  Think about it...   We could prevent a lot of illegals with that kind of money. And even better....  not add $63M more to the national debt.

We drop that money in, or we do a lot more later (or watch Europe slowly go under, although I'm not sure who would get it first, the Muslims or the Russians. Like so much of late, I'm not a fan of the options. Perhaps a peace settlement all could live with would stop all this, but under the current regime, I don't see that happening.

[Smokin Joe]

I wish the Ukrainan people the best, but have a deep distrust of their leader.  His alliances with our worst domestic poliitical enemies is a good square 1.  In a perfect world, both Zellinsky and Putin would be eliminated.

He sought help from the US. It's our fault that he had to deal with Biden's gang.

In a perfect world, Zelenesky would not have to deal with Biden.

[MeganC]

GEEEEZ guys...

I support Ukraine, and I consider you both conservatives....  but what kind of conservative  has no problem dropping $63M into a fireball, and not even blink. 

Does that sound like conservatism?  Think about it...   We could prevent a lot of illegals with that kind of money. And even better....  not add $63M more to the national debt.

That is a very tired and very old Russian trope that we aren't protecting our border because Ukraine is trying to protect theirs. Get some new propaganda. We've all heard this crap before.

[catfish1957]

That is a very tired and very old Russian trope that we aren't protecting our border because Ukraine is trying to protect theirs. Get some new propaganda. We've all heard this crap before.

WTF are you talking about ?!?!?!?!

I have said at least 10 times on Ukraine forums that I'd like to see Putin off'ed.

So stick the proganda accusation, where the sun doesn't shine.

And OTOH, I could make accusations that the pro-Ukraine Briefers are supporting dims in that we are being invaded right now by illegal aliens, but prefer sending that money to Ukraine.  But I wouldn't do that. 

[Smokin Joe]

WTF are you talking about ?!?!?!?!

I have said at least 10 times on Ukraine forums that I'd like to see Putin off'ed.

So stick the proganda accusation, where the sun doesn't shine.

And OTOH, I could make accusations that the pro-Ukraine Briefers are supporting dims in that we are being invaded right now by illegal aliens, but prefer sending that money to Ukraine.  But I wouldn't do that. 

Yabbut all we'd have to do is cut out the cumshaw, baksheesh, bribes, kickbacks, and diversion of funds to the DNC and we'd have enough to do both (help Ukraine and secure our border).
It;s like I have discussed with @roamer_1 ,it isn't a question of whether we are going to have deficit spending, just a question of what that money we don't have will be spent on.
Finish the wall, deport the illegals, and the money saved in the long run will compensate.

[Hoodat]

And OTOH, I could make accusations that the pro-Ukraine Briefers are supporting dims in that we are being invaded right now by illegal aliens, but prefer sending that money to Ukraine.  But I wouldn't do that.

Who's sending money to Ukraine?  Biden is handing money straight to the Defense Department, the State Department,  USAID, and NATO.  All in the name of Ukraine, of course.  Here's how it works.

The President orders $6.1 million in "drawdown" money to be given to the Defense Department for the 'purpose' of arming Ukraine.  Now $6.1 million is exactly how much a new M-2A2 Bradley costs.  But for $6.1 million, one could possibly buy 8-10 M2A1 Bradleys manufactured back in the late 80s.

Yet instead of sending 8 M2A1 Bradleys and calling it even, the DoD sends 1 M2A1, calling it an M2A2, and then charges $6.1 million against the drawdown for that single Bradley.  So Ukraine ends up with a $750k APC that pre-dates the BMP-3 that the Russians use, and they get charged $6.1 million for it.

But hey, get pissed off at Ukraine over Biden's corruption.

[roamer_1]

Yabbut all we'd have to do is cut out the cumshaw, baksheesh, bribes, kickbacks, and diversion of funds to the DNC and we'd have enough to do both (help Ukraine and secure our border).
It;s like I have discussed with @roamer_1 ,it isn't a question of whether we are going to have deficit spending, just a question of what that money we don't have will be spent on.
Finish the wall, deport the illegals, and the money saved in the long run will compensate.

Well... that might be true, except that BOTH Democrats AND Republicans are complicit in the cumshaw, baksheesh, bribes, kickbacks, and diversion of funds...

And the border wall will not be completed -No where near - and will not be staffed (which means any moron with a pickup truck and an acetylene torch can get through that fence in minutes).

So the argument is all fallacy.
 

[bigheadfred]

We shouldn't be sending or selling outdated military aircraft to our allies. They all should be parked in a desert somewhere so they can rot away./s

[Cyber Liberty]

We shouldn't be sending or selling outdated military aircraft to our allies. They all should be parked in a desert somewhere so they can rot away./s

Oh, you've been to Davis-Monthan in Tucson....