Ted Cruz Most Popular Politician in Texas, Outperforming Biden, Abbott, Cornyn

[Right_in_Virginia]

True: Trump hired some of the sleaziest people in the country (Stone and Pecker) to create slanderous lies during the '16 camapign that had residual sticking power to Cruz and his subsequent campaign.

There is nothing slanderous about saying Ted Cruz is a naturalized American citizen, not a natural born American citizen @catfish1957

The Constitution, not me, not Donald Trump, says this makes Cruz ineligible for the office of the President.  Cruz knows this.

As for the primary campaign ---- "Lyin' Ted" was certainly effective, as truth usually is.  You seem to forget the genesis of the label were Ted's own quotes.  Rubio was effective in helping this stick to Cruz, too, adding more truth from Ted's record.

After alignng and realigning himself with other primary candidates, Cruz ended up like a flounder flopping all over the back of a boat trying to get traction with Fiorina.  I'll admit, it became painful to watch him.

And then came the convention when he submitted his speech for approval only to give a different one.  Dare I say this was Lyin' Ted at his finest?

But Trump, far from ending Ted's political career, would go on to save it by pulling him across the finish line, returning Cruz to the Senate.

They appear to have a professional relationship that is quite good now.

Maybe you and I can learn something from the two men.

[Elderberry]

Ted may not be "Natural Born", but he was Not Naturalized. He was a Citizen at Birth. No matter where he was born.

[corbe]

There is nothing slanderous about saying Ted Cruz is a naturalized American citizen, not a natural born American citizen @catfish1957

The Constitution, not me, not Donald Trump, says this makes Cruz ineligible for the office of the President.  Cruz knows this.

As for the primary campaign ---- "Lyin' Ted" was certainly effective, as truth usually is.  You seem to forget the genesis of the label were Ted's own quotes.  Rubio was effective in helping this stick to Cruz, too, adding more truth from Ted's record.

After alignng and realigning himself with other primary candidates, Cruz ended up like a flounder flopping all over the back of a boat trying to get traction with Fiorina.  I'll admit, it became painful to watch him.

And then came the convention when he submitted his speech for approval only to give a different one.  Dare I say this was Lyin' Ted at his finest?

But Trump, far from ending Ted's political career, would go on to save it by pulling him across the finish line, returning Cruz to the Senate.

They appear to have a professional relationship that is quite good now.

Kindda wish we could say the same.   

   To your absurd statement above (in bold) @Right_in_Virginia It was YOU Trumpers who are responsible for Cruz only beating beto by 2%.  The Texas 2018 vote figures don't lie. The Dallas Ralley Trump did for him was a joke, that probably cost him more votes than it gained him.

[DB]

There is nothing slanderous about saying Ted Cruz is a naturalized American citizen, not a natural born American citizen @catfish1957

The Constitution, not me, not Donald Trump, says this makes Cruz ineligible for the office of the President.  Cruz knows this.

As for the primary campaign ---- "Lyin' Ted" was certainly effective, as truth usually is.  You seem to forget the genesis of the label were Ted's own quotes.  Rubio was effective in helping this stick to Cruz, too, adding more truth from Ted's record.

After alignng and realigning himself with other primary candidates, Cruz ended up like a flounder flopping all over the back of a boat trying to get traction with Fiorina.  I'll admit, it became painful to watch him.

And then came the convention when he submitted his speech for approval only to give a different one.  Dare I say this was Lyin' Ted at his finest?

But Trump, far from ending Ted's political career, would go on to save it by pulling him across the finish line, returning Cruz to the Senate.

They appear to have a professional relationship that is quite good now.

Maybe you and I can learn something from the two men.

He was never naturalized that I know of. He was a citizen at birth based on US law at the time of his birth.

[HoustonSam]

There is nothing slanderous about saying Ted Cruz is a naturalized American citizen, not a natural born American citizen @catfish1957

The Constitution, not me, not Donald Trump, says this makes Cruz ineligible for the office of the President.  Cruz knows this.

No, the Constitution simply says "natural born."  You're the one asserting an extra-Constitutional definition found nowhere in US law for "natural born", and then arguing disingenuously that your manufactured, pet definition applies to Cruz.  You're just making this up as you go along because of your never-ending pique that Cruz stood on principle in 2016; I can't imagine how much it irritates you even more that he was the last man standing actually trying to defend electoral integrity in 2021.

As for the primary campaign ---- "Lyin' Ted" was certainly effective, as truth usually is.  You seem to forget the genesis of the label were Ted's own quotes.  Rubio was effective in helping this stick to Cruz, too, adding more truth from Ted's record.

After alignng and realigning himself with other primary candidates, Cruz ended up like a flounder flopping all over the back of a boat trying to get traction with Fiorina.  I'll admit, it became painful to watch him.

And then came the convention when he submitted his speech for approval only to give a different one.  Dare I say this was Lyin' Ted at his finest?

Please cite the specific differences between the speech Cruz submitted and the speech he gave.

But Trump, far from ending Ted's political career, would go on to save it by pulling him across the finish line, returning Cruz to the Senate.

Trump's attack against Cruz, and the petulant sycophancy of so many of Trump's supporters, were the precise causes of Cruz's narrow margin against Beto in 2018.  Had Trump been more focused on the good of the R party and the country during the 2016 primaries, instead of egomaniacal desperation to buff up his brand image as "winner", Cruz would have cruised against Beto.  So whatever Trump did to assist in 2018, he was simply repairing damage that he himself had done, putting at risk a Senate majority.  It's certainly the mark of a great leader that he damages his team in order to indulge his own narcissism.

They appear to have a professional relationship that is quite good now.

Kindda wish we could say the same.   

[Bigun]

Then show specifically in any US law where this distinction is made.

It is made in the constitution itself within the space of a single phrase.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;...

Last time I looked, the constitution was still the supreme law of this land.

[DB]

It is made in the constitution itself within the space of a single phrase.

Last time I looked, the constitution was still the supreme law of this land.

That quote does not define "natural born".

[Right_in_Virginia]

He was never naturalized that I know of. He was a citizen at birth based on US law at the time of his birth.

Citizenship based on an act of Congress is a naturalized citizen @DB  --- with the full rights and privileges of citizenship, except one:  The office of the President.

A natural born citizen doesn't require any intervention by anything or anyone, including Congress.  I am a natural born citizen---born on US soil to two parents who were American citizens at the time of my birth.  I didn't need an act of Congress to be a citizen so Congress cannot amend a law and take it from me.

I think with folks from around the globe dropping anchor babies like flies we'd want to reassert Article II of the Constitution's two step natural born requirement of soil and parental lineage for POTUS --- not eliminate it.   

[Bigun]

That quote does not define "natural born".

They were VERY familiar with the definition. Had three copies of Vatelle in the room when they wrote it.

[HoustonSam]

That quote does not define "natural born".

Thanks @DB.  It seems obvious to me that using the term "natural born" does not define the term "natural born."  Citing the use does not provide the definition.

[Bigun]

Citizenship based on an act of Congress is a naturalized citizen @DB  --- with the full rights and privileges of citizenship, except one:  The office of the President.

A natural born citizen doesn't require any intervention by anything or anyone, including Congress.  I am a natural born citizen---born on US soil to two parents who were American citizens at the time of my birth.  I didn't need an act of Congress to be a citizen so Congress cannot amend a law and take it from me.

I think with folks from around the globe dropping anchor babies like flies we'd want to reassert Article II of the Constitution's two step natural born requirement of soil and parental lineage for POTUS --- not eliminate it.   

FWIW, I say you are EXACTLY right @Right_in_Virginia and it is hugely important to the future of this nation that you be.

[HoustonSam]

They were VERY familiar with the definition. Had three copies of Vatelle in the room when they wrote it.

What a pity for your argument that they chose not to write Vatelle's definition into the Constitution.  How many other of Vatelle's concepts do you assert are implicitly wrapped up in the Constitution although never written there?

And are there other sources, outside the Constitution, that a Justice should consult in rendering a decision?  What are those other sources?  Maybe an embryology textbook?

Penumbra, or emanation?

[Right_in_Virginia]

Ted may not be "Natural Born", but he was Not Naturalized. He was a Citizen at Birth. No matter where he was born.

His citizenship was bestowed by Congress.  Cruz is a naturalized American citizen @Elderberry

This is not to say this is a "bad" thing.  Hell, millions of illegals pouring across our Southern border are clamoring for it.

[Right_in_Virginia]

FWIW, I say you are EXACTLY right @Right_in_Virginia and it is hugely important to the future of this nation that you be.

Thanks, @Bigun ....   

[HoustonSam]

Citizenship based on an act of Congress is a naturalized citizen @DB  --- with the full rights and privileges of citizenship, except one:  The office of the President.

A natural born citizen doesn't require any intervention by anything or anyone, including Congress.  I am a natural born citizen---born on US soil to two parents who were American citizens at the time of my birth.  I didn't need an act of Congress to be a citizen so Congress cannot amend a law and take it from me.

I think with folks from around the globe dropping anchor babies like flies we'd want to reassert Article II of the Constitution's two step natural born requirement of soil and parental lineage for POTUS --- not eliminate it.   

Here's the citizenship clause of Article II.  Now if you'll just highlight that "two step natural born requirement of soil and parental lineage" you can put this whole debate to rest in your favor.  Here you go, right here, just highlight that specific part.  I'm sure you can do it, the relevant article is right here for you :

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

[Bigun]

What a pity for your argument that they chose not to write Vatelle's definition into the Constitution.  How many other of Vatelle's concepts do you assert are implicitly wrapped up in the Constitution although never written there?

And are there other sources, outside the Constitution, that a Justice should consult in rendering a decision?  What are those other sources?  Maybe an embryology textbook?

Penumbra, or emanation?

I have presented you with many proofs that do not involve a penumbra or emanation. You choose to ignore them and I expect that will not change.

[HoustonSam]

I have presented you with many proofs that do not involve a penumbra or emanation. You choose to ignore them and I expect that will not change.

No, you've presented a pet definition that appears nowhere in the US Constitution (or statutes), even as you simultaneously argue that Justices should look nowhere other than the US Constitution in rendering decisions.  And you've presented SCOTUS precedents, even as you simultaneously argue that SCOTUS precedents are not relevant when compared to the actual text of the Constitution.  Which text does not say anywhere what you assert.

But you are correct about one thing - I will continue to ignore your assertions about "natural born", because I've disproven their validity using your own words.

[DefiantMassRINO]

[libertybele]

FWIW, I say you are EXACTLY right @Right_in_Virginia and it is hugely important to the future of this nation that you be.

It is important and I agree. However, Obama and Kamel have already set the stage and it doesn't seem to make a darn bit of difference anymore. Every Juan, Juanita, Hussein and Omar coming across the border illegally right now, can have a child and that child is eligible to become president or VP just like they did.

[sneakypete]

It is made in the constitution itself within the space of a single phrase.

Last time I looked, the constitution was still the supreme law of this land.

@Bigun

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;...

Seems clear enough to me.

[Bigun]

No, you've presented a pet definition that appears nowhere in the US Constitution (or statutes), even as you simultaneously argue that Justices should look nowhere other than the US Constitution in rendering decisions.  And you've presented SCOTUS precedents, even as you simultaneously argue that SCOTUS precedents are not relevant when compared to the actual text of the Constitution.  Which text does not say anywhere what you assert.

But you are correct about one thing - I will continue to ignore your assertions about "natural born", because I've disproven their validity using your own words.

The ONLY thing you have proven is that YOU, for whatever reason, cannot see the forest for the trees on this issue.

Our founders were acutely aware of the problem presented by the fact that there would be no king here and thus no line of ascension. They were equally aware of the dangers of allowing anyone with even potential divided loyalties to become the chief executive and (they thought) solved the problem with the constitutional language already cited here many times.

Readers of this thread can decide for themselves who has proven what.

[sneakypete]

Ted may not be "Natural Born", but he was Not Naturalized. He was a Citizen at Birth. No matter where he was born.

@Elderberry

So he could have been born in Moscow,China,or Cuba,and would still be a US Citizen?

Or were you getting cut by dropping the "US" and just writing citizen? In that case you would be correct. Everybody is a citizen of somewhere.

[libertybele]

@Elderberry

So he could have been born in Moscow,China,or Cuba,and would still be a US Citizen?

Or were you getting cut by dropping the "US" and just writing citizen? In that case you would be correct. Everybody is a citizen of somewhere.

Ted had at least one parent who was an American citizen.  Neither of Kamel's parents were citizens.  The damage has already been done.

I'm not saying in the least that it is right, rather it has already been done, accepted and as far as I know, not even challenged.

[Elderberry]

His citizenship was bestowed by Congress.  Cruz is a naturalized American citizen @Elderberry

This is not to say this is a "bad" thing.  Hell, millions of illegals pouring across our Southern border are clamoring for it.

I'll say it again. Ted was Not Naturalized!!!

It least by my understanding of "Naturalization", which does not agree with your "made up definition" of Naturalized.

There is a separate process for Naturalization that Ted Did Not Undergo.

Citizenship and Naturalization

https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/learn-about-citizenship/citizenship-and-naturalization

Deciding to become a U.S. citizen is one of the most important decisions an immigrant can make. Depending on your situation, there may be different ways to obtain citizenship.

•   Naturalization is the process by which U.S. citizenship is granted to a lawful permanent resident after meeting the requirements established by Congress in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).

[HoustonSam]

They were VERY familiar with the definition. Had three copies of Vatelle in the room when they wrote it.

Here's an interesting item from Book 1 of Vattel :

"§ 10. Of states forming a federal republic.
Finally, several sovereign and independent states may unite themselves together by a perpetual confederacy, without ceasing to be, each individually, a perfect state. They will together constitute a federal republic: their joint deliberations will not impair the sovereignty of each member, though they may, in certain respects, put some restraint on the exercise of it, in virtue of voluntary engagements. A person does not cease to be free and independent, when he is obliged to fulfil engagements which he has voluntarily contracted."

https://famguardian.org/Publications/LawOfNations/vattel_01.htm#%C2%A7%202.%20Authority%20of%20the%20body%20politic%20over%20the%20members.

You'll notice I'm sure that I have highlighted "perpetual".  Vattel says that states may unite themselves together by a perpetual confederacy.  So Vattel argues that there is no right of secession, because that would not be a perpetual confederacy. And of course the founders were very influenced by Vattel, why they even had three copies of his work in the room with them; they were very familiar with his definition here.  So whatever Vattel said, well that must be what the founders actually meant.

So the founders specifically excluded any right of a state to ever secede because Vattel says "perpetual."  Isn't that right @Bigun ?