Author Topic: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2  (Read 224860 times)

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Offline libertybele

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1000 on: April 14, 2020, 09:34:33 pm »
Clay Travis   @ClayTravis
Question: wasn’t the rationale for a national shutdown to flatten the curve and avoid hospitals from being overrun? Now that we know that isn’t happening anywhere, why has the lockdown rationale suddenly shifted to we can’t go back to work without a vaccine?
1:52 PM · Apr 14, 2020·

Yes, that was the rationale and also to protect those most vulnerable.  Projections vary though as to when each state is supposed to hit its peak and many haven't yet, but most states should see the virus peak by the end of April.  How those projections have  been arrived at, I don't know.  It is logical that the less people are exposed to the virus, the less chance of it spreading. However, certainly we can't shelter in forever.  Obviously people need to go back to work and the country needs to start functioning again.





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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1001 on: April 14, 2020, 10:35:03 pm »
Is this like votes in the trunk of a car in SoCal?
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1002 on: April 14, 2020, 11:08:40 pm »
NYC death toll jumps by 3,700 after uncounted fatalities are added
whoopsie

I thought he was the worst Mayor ever after he killed the groundhog.


Offline DB

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1003 on: April 15, 2020, 12:52:33 am »
A follow up on my niece. I found out today that she tested negative for Covid-19. She has only been given the test one time so a lot is riding on the accuracy of it. She has been diagnosed with pneumonia and has severe coughing with a fever that comes and goes. She's on antibiotics.

I'm still highly concerned.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1004 on: April 15, 2020, 01:27:23 am »
A follow up on my niece. I found out today that she tested negative for Covid-19. She has only been given the test one time so a lot is riding on the accuracy of it.
That is good news.
Quote
She has been diagnosed with pneumonia and has severe coughing with a fever that comes and goes. She's on antibiotics.

I'm still highly concerned.
Prayers sent.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1005 on: April 15, 2020, 03:26:30 am »
A follow up on my niece. I found out today that she tested negative for Covid-19. She has only been given the test one time so a lot is riding on the accuracy of it. She has been diagnosed with pneumonia and has severe coughing with a fever that comes and goes. She's on antibiotics.

I'm still highly concerned.
Prayers up !
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1006 on: April 15, 2020, 06:17:41 am »
whoopsie

I thought he was the worst Mayor ever after he killed the groundhog.


Groundhog now listed as dying of coronavirus.

The worst part of this policy is that a majority of people who get tested for it end up testing negative, even if they're suspected of having it. Just this past week, they announced Richard Brodsky, a former politician, had died of coronavirus—only to retract that after he tested negative postmortem. He'd actually died of a heart attack.

So of all these presumed cases, maybe 30% of them likely had the virus, let alone died a result of it.
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1007 on: April 15, 2020, 09:54:08 am »
Groundhog now listed as dying of coronavirus.
funny
Quote
The worst part of this policy is that a majority of people who get tested for it end up testing negative, even if they're suspected of having it. Just this past week, they announced Richard Brodsky, a former politician, had died of coronavirus—only to retract that after he tested negative postmortem. He'd actually died of a heart attack.

So of all these presumed cases, maybe 30% of them likely had the virus, let alone died a result of it.
messed up

Online catfish1957

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1008 on: April 15, 2020, 09:59:52 am »
funnymessed up

Wonder how many Groundhog vehicular mishaps and death certificates are going to be reclassified.

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Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1009 on: April 15, 2020, 10:05:05 am »
Clay Travis   @ClayTravis
Question: wasn’t the rationale for a national shutdown to flatten the curve and avoid hospitals from being overrun? Now that we know that isn’t happening anywhere, why has the lockdown rationale suddenly shifted to we can’t go back to work without a vaccine?
1:52 PM · Apr 14, 2020·

I haven't heard that "we can't go back to work without a vaccine."  Is that coming from leftist politicians?

What I have heard repeatedly is that we can go back to work soon, but that care must be taken for the health of the workers until there is a vaccine.

BIG difference there.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Offline TomSea

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1010 on: April 15, 2020, 10:15:39 am »
Quote
Japan urges citizens to isolate as reports warn of 400,000 deaths
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-japan-idUSKCN21X149
Quote
New York City coronavirus deaths suspected to be more than 10,000
...

Last week, Mayor Bill de Blasio admitted that the city's official death toll probably underestimated the true extent of the deadly outbreak.

More: https://news.yahoo.com/york-city-coronavirus-deaths-suspected-more-10-000-224216474.html

I think suggesting the continual drone of low death rate is out-of-touch, hospitals are burdened heavily, one doesn't have different governments doing the same thing, that out of Japan is a real nightmare forecast.

New York and somewhere else are acknowledging they are probably "undercounting".

That may not be so, but it's more than the farcical "16" a day one was asserting about a month ago, now, we are up to 26,000 plus in just, what seems to me, a month.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1011 on: April 15, 2020, 10:24:56 am »
In New York City perhaps, but all over the world?  Not likely. 

2 million is a lot of people to die in less than two months.  If a fraction of those deaths are "inflated," that's still a lot of people to die in just a few months.

And the deaths lag behind, so it's still going to increase. 

That's a lot of people who actually ARE dying of COVID-19.   A lot.
What was I referring to?
New York City's policy of adding idiopathic deaths outside of a clinical setting to the SARS-CoV-2 death toll.

I didn't say anything about the rest of the world, so don't kindly jack my comment and change the subject.
How much extra funding is New York City going to make from attributing 3700 (and counting) deaths to the virus as opposed to other causes of death?

But since you went there, what two million people?

According to these guys, https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?%20, as of this posting in the whole world there have been
Quote
Deaths:
128,965
Recovered:
492,482
Not only not even a tenth of your "two million  deaths", but nearly 4 times as many recovered as died.

Seems New York City isn't the only one reporting high numbers.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 10:25:53 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline TomSea

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1012 on: April 15, 2020, 10:33:12 am »
Not sure what the deal is, China unleashed this on the world, we should be mad at them and WHO but....

It doesn't amount to much more than the flu to begin with?


Offline Hoodat

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1013 on: April 15, 2020, 10:44:12 am »
According to these guys, https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?%20, as of this posting in the whole world there have been 

Quote
Deaths:
128,965
Recovered:
492,482

Not only not even a tenth of your "two million  deaths", but nearly 4 times as many recovered as died.

There are an additional 245,000 who were diagnosed 14+ days ago and have survived, but have not yet been listed as 'recovered'.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1014 on: April 15, 2020, 10:51:42 am »
What was I referring to?
New York City's policy of adding idiopathic deaths outside of a clinical setting to the SARS-CoV-2 death toll.

I didn't say anything about the rest of the world, so don't kindly jack my comment and change the subject.
How much extra funding is New York City going to make from attributing 3700 (and counting) deaths to the virus as opposed to other causes of death?

But since you went there, what two million people?

According to these guys, https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?%20, as of this posting in the whole world there have been  Not only not even a tenth of your "two million  deaths", but nearly 4 times as many recovered as died.

Seems New York City isn't the only one reporting high numbers.

I humbly apologize and will remove my post.

I saw the number of cases and mistook it for deaths.

It was unintentional.

And now I understand that you were talking about NYC only.  That was not clear from your post.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1015 on: April 15, 2020, 10:53:52 am »
The left has found the vehicle for the takedown of America. The rest is just epilogue.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1016 on: April 15, 2020, 10:58:41 am »
The left has found the vehicle for the takedown of America. The rest is just epilogue.

The left's intentions should be clear by now - fighting the virus is tangential. We should be gearing up to fight them but we still seem to be in a dither over the veracity of their claims.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1017 on: April 15, 2020, 11:33:28 am »
The left has found the vehicle for the takedown of America. The rest is just epilogue.
Not just the vehicle, but the driver (CCP).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1018 on: April 15, 2020, 11:52:35 am »
The left's intentions should be clear by now - fighting the virus is tangential. We should be gearing up to fight them but we still seem to be in a dither over the veracity of their claims.
Their claims are as true as the 'bat in a seafood market' fable.

By now we should recognize some fundamental points.

The Left, Islamists, and the CCP have some things in common.

First, and most fundamental, all three lie. The Left through distortion and omission, because despite their dreams, there is still enough freedom of speech here that the truth can get out. Decades long campaigns of remodeling the language through political correctness and the stigma of some -ism or -phobia have worked about all they can, making whole thoughts difficult to express because the words to express them have been rendered unacceptable or even criminal by those who would limit your very ability to even think that the product they are selling is bogus.
The Islamists, because 'it is written', can not only suppress any dissent through the use of a fatwah and a knife, but are fully dispensed to lie to the infidels, engaging in taqiya, lying blatantly for the advancement of Islam. The Left here only dreams of wielding such an iron fist.
The CCP, through blatant propaganda, repetition, and allowing no other alternative to be heard or seen unless it is to provide a veil to hide the routine silencing of any opinion or truth not approved by the CCP. Unlike the US, dissent there can win you a one way ticket to the next life, something the Left here can only dream of.

Fundamental to repressing people is the repression of the truth, the very basis by which people should make decisions. The more muddled the perception of reality, be that through propaganda, indoctrination, lies, or drugs, the more malleable a people, the more easily they are controlled, and the more blind they are to the insidious horrors carried out in their name.

That battle is a war of a thousand cuts, and must be fought with every post online, every statement, carefully couching the truth in the vestiges of language yet allowed while still getting across that the acts, actions, proposals, and indoctrination of the Left are composed of a complex fabrication, a network of interrelated lies designed, ultimately, to place power and wealth in the hands of a few acolytes while dooming the rest of the population to subjugation and misery, with no concept of hope to do better.

We need to expose the lies, to peel back the cover over these maggots that are feasting on the rot they have induced in our culture. The truth is a great place to start.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline skeeter

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1019 on: April 15, 2020, 12:12:08 pm »
QFT. Clearly our side lacks the focus of the left/Islamists/Commies. To them their ideological doctrine is their only reason for living, while the rest of us have lives to live and consider the political fight either a necessary evil or an afterthought

I'm afraid this will pan out much like the second world war did - they will push until we are forced to respond, at which time dislodging them will be far more costly and painful than it would have been had we offered meaningful opposition from the start. But these people need to be opposed ALL of the time which requires a level of cynicism we do not naturally possess.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 12:14:05 pm by skeeter »

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1020 on: April 15, 2020, 12:14:20 pm »
QFT. Clearly our side lacks the focus of the left/Islamists/Commies. To them their political cause is their only reason for living, while the rest of us have lives to live and consider the political fight either a necessary evil or an afterthought

I'm afraid this will pan out much like the second world war did - they will push until we are forced to respond, at which time dislodging them will be far more costly and painful than it would have been had we offered meaningful opposition from the start. But these people need to be opposed ALL of the time which requires a level of cynicism we do not naturally possess.
It's not so hard. If their lips are moving, they're lying, with a few half truths sprinkled in either because they are obvious, or to point to when they are called on lying about the rest.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline skeeter

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1021 on: April 15, 2020, 12:17:24 pm »
It's not so hard. If their lips are moving, they're lying, with a few half truths sprinkled in either because they are obvious, or to point to when they are called on lying about the rest.
The problem is sensitizing the rank & file to what you and I easily recognize.

Offline LadyLiberty

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1022 on: April 15, 2020, 12:41:04 pm »
Quote
MLB players, team employees participating in coronavirus study

Employees of Major League Baseball teams are participating in a massive study that will test up to 10,000 people for coronavirus antibodies and should offer researchers a better sense of how widespread the disease is in major metropolitan areas across the United States, although doctors caution that the data gathered is not expected to hasten the game's return.

The study, which is being run by Stanford University, USC and the Sports Medicine Research and Testing Laboratory (SMRTL), will use test kits that draw blood via pinprick and offer results within 10 minutes. The test will detect the prevalence of IgM, an antibody produced relatively early in those who have been infected with COVID-19, and IgG, a second form that doctors said lasts long after the infection happens. A positive test would confirm a person did in fact contract coronavirus, even if he or she was asymptomatic.

The goal of the study is to get a better sense of the virus' true infection rate by utilizing a nationwide sample. The speed with which MLB coordinated logistics and ensured participation from a wide range of people, including players, front-office staff, concession workers and others, made it the right choice for the study, according to doctors running it.

More:  https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29036123/mlb-players-team-employees-participating-coronavirus-study

This should get a good handle on how close we are to heard immunity.  The results will be peer-reviewed and published as soon as next week.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 12:44:36 pm by LadyLiberty »

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1023 on: April 15, 2020, 12:47:33 pm »
The problem is sensitizing the rank & file to what you and I easily recognize.
True.

The best place to start is to expose lies and get them thinking critically, looking for the 'catch'.
(Where is the money going to come from? is a biggie.)
My parents started me pretty young when I wanted to order a set of army soldiers from a comic book.
I was excited thinking of the toy soldiers and tanks and such I had, that they would be equivalent in size.
They asked me how big the box was, which was in the ad.
Oh. Far too small to fit a single tank or airplane into, which meant those toy soldiers were pretty darned small.

It was an eye opener, and one I credit for having kept me from a multitude of bad deals over the years.

So start with deceptions which are close to the surface, and easy to root out. Deals too good to be true. Show them the 'catch' by asking them questions designed to get them to see it.
Get them thinking critically.
Once they are thinking critically, their days as liberals are numbered.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1024 on: April 15, 2020, 12:51:47 pm »
Quote
The study, which is being run by Stanford University, USC and the Sports Medicine Research and Testing Laboratory (SMRTL), will use test kits that draw blood via pinprick and offer results within 10 minutes. The test will detect the prevalence of IgM, an antibody produced relatively early in those who have been infected with COVID-19, and IgG, a second form that doctors said lasts long after the infection happens. A positive test would confirm a person did in fact contract coronavirus, even if he or she was asymptomatic.

This should get a good handle on how close we are to heard immunity.  The results will be peer-reviewed and published as soon as next week.

So when do I get to take one of those tests?  Or is it only available to men who bat .260 or better?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1026 on: April 15, 2020, 12:57:27 pm »
Hyped Malaria Pill Doesn’t Help Clear Coronavirus in Study
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/hyped-malaria-pill-doesnt-help-clear-coronavirus-in-study/ar-BB12EEbv?ocid=spartandhp

Was zinc included in the study?  Hydroxychloroquine does nothing without zinc.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1027 on: April 15, 2020, 01:01:28 pm »
Birx: Data shows some states 'could do very well with some decreasing restrictions'
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/492938-birx-data-shows-some-states-could-do-very-well-with-some-decreasing
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1028 on: April 15, 2020, 01:05:07 pm »
True.

The best place to start is to expose lies and get them thinking critically, looking for the 'catch'.
(Where is the money going to come from? is a biggie.)
My parents started me pretty young when I wanted to order a set of army soldiers from a comic book.
I was excited thinking of the toy soldiers and tanks and such I had, that they would be equivalent in size.
They asked me how big the box was, which was in the ad.
Oh. Far too small to fit a single tank or airplane into, which meant those toy soldiers were pretty darned small.

It was an eye opener, and one I credit for having kept me from a multitude of bad deals over the years.

So start with deceptions which are close to the surface, and easy to root out. Deals too good to be true. Show them the 'catch' by asking them questions designed to get them to see it.
Get them thinking critically.
Once they are thinking critically, their days as liberals are numbered.
Its easy to be pessimistic but I'm sure you recall how bad it was when all political info was channeled nationally through only  three networks.

At least there are now alternative POVs out there, with more conduits for them every year. At least there is an access to info we can think critically about.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 01:07:46 pm by skeeter »

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1029 on: April 15, 2020, 01:17:28 pm »
The left has found the vehicle for the takedown of America. The rest is just epilogue.
Hilarious, but I spell it unanimous.  Yesterday the GOP President was in total control.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1030 on: April 15, 2020, 01:32:05 pm »
Its easy to be pessimistic but I'm sure you recall how bad it was when all political info was channeled nationally through only  three networks.

At least there are now alternative POVs out there, which more conduits for them every year. At least there is an access to info we can think critically about.
Yep, the three channels we could get were all Watergate, all the time. "Glory days" for the Democrats, and they're trying desperately to relive them. Thank The Almighty they are failing.

Half the battle is channeling youngsters to content that makes sense and is correct.

Not easy, there are enough "crackpot" theories flying around to make the defense of "Conspiracy Theory" viable.
But the fact that such things are thriving, even though often based only on the part of the truth that reinforces those theories, indicates that people are not satisfied with the MSM version of reality and are looking for something that explains what isn't being reported or explained.
The trick with that is debunking conspiracy theories that can't pass muster (and they are legion) right along with the MSM crap.

Get them to look for the angle, the serious questions and the holes in the data, the details that prove someone is distorting reality. Show them how infection rates vs numbers vs percentage increases can all be presented to push one viewpoint over another, when they actually distort what is going on. How even nonstandard units of measure can be used to inflate impact (the most common in the media involve gallons or liters of oil spilled, when the standard unit of measure is either a cubic meter (Canada: 1000 liters) or a barrel (42 US Gallons).
 
The fundamental doubt is widespread, especially among the young, if/when they overcome parroting the popular propaganda, partly because the natural tendency to be rebellious at the transition from childhood to adulthood works in favor of that, and because they may have learned just enough to really start asking questions about the assumptions they were spoon fed. 

As such, we have been relegated to the 'counter-counterculture' (of the 60s): We are what Mao would have described as "counterrevolutionaries"
 
In that, the internet is a great marketplace for ideas as well.

The trick is to sort out and toss aside the guy with an agenda that is self serving over serving everyone, an important fundamental concept of Liberty and Basic Unalienable Rights (that we're all born with them, and even have them before we're born, not from the State, but from The Almighty).
 
While there are many different versions of religion and even those who don't belong to any specific one, the concept of some higher, ordering power in the universe is widespread. By example, by our own beliefs (and we will be asked) we can steer them closer, not only to a restored Republic, but to The Creator who inspired much of that thought.

I'm hardly evangelical material, I'm too rough around the edges, have to edit some of my posts before posting to remove profanity (I'm getting better about that, just because it is tedious), but I deeply believe. I won't force those beliefs on others but I don't mind answering questions and pointing them in the right direction, and don't mind presenting the Bible as a user's manual and guide for humans, not just some bunch of orders. Even the stories have lessons in them that open the way to belief in a benevolent God.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DB

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1031 on: April 15, 2020, 01:39:32 pm »
"Did Xi Jinping Deliberately Sicken the World?"

https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/did-xi-jinping-deliberately-sicken-the-world/

Wow...

Offline skeeter

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1032 on: April 15, 2020, 01:43:43 pm »
Yep, the three channels we could get were all Watergate, all the time. "Glory days" for the Democrats, and they're trying desperately to relive them. Thank The Almighty they are failing.

Half the battle is channeling youngsters to content that makes sense and is correct.

Not easy, there are enough "crackpot" theories flying around to make the defense of "Conspiracy Theory" viable.
But the fact that such things are thriving, even though often based only on the part of the truth that reinforces those theories, indicates that people are not satisfied with the MSM version of reality and are looking for something that explains what isn't being reported or explained.
The trick with that is debunking conspiracy theories that can't pass muster (and they are legion) right along with the MSM crap.

Get them to look for the angle, the serious questions and the holes in the data, the details that prove someone is distorting reality. Show them how infection rates vs numbers vs percentage increases can all be presented to push one viewpoint over another, when they actually distort what is going on. How even nonstandard units of measure can be used to inflate impact (the most common in the media involve gallons or liters of oil spilled, when the standard unit of measure is either a cubic meter (Canada: 1000 liters) or a barrel (42 US Gallons).
 
The fundamental doubt is widespread, especially among the young, if/when they overcome parroting the popular propaganda, partly because the natural tendency to be rebellious at the transition from childhood to adulthood works in favor of that, and because they may have learned just enough to really start asking questions about the assumptions they were spoon fed. 

As such, we have been relegated to the 'counter-counterculture' (of the 60s): We are what Mao would have described as "counterrevolutionaries"
 
In that, the internet is a great marketplace for ideas as well.

The trick is to sort out and toss aside the guy with an agenda that is self serving over serving everyone, an important fundamental concept of Liberty and Basic Unalienable Rights (that we're all born with them, and even have them before we're born, not from the State, but from The Almighty).
 
While there are many different versions of religion and even those who don't belong to any specific one, the concept of some higher, ordering power in the universe is widespread. By example, by our own beliefs (and we will be asked) we can steer them closer, not only to a restored Republic, but to The Creator who inspired much of that thought.

I'm hardly evangelical material, I'm too rough around the edges, have to edit some of my posts before posting to remove profanity (I'm getting better about that, just because it is tedious), but I deeply believe. I won't force those beliefs on others but I don't mind answering questions and pointing them in the right direction, and don't mind presenting the Bible as a user's manual and guide for humans, not just some bunch of orders. Even the stories have lessons in them that open the way to belief in a benevolent God.
You'll get no argument from me there. I'm very clear on the existence & nature of this nation's primary benefactor - my testimony might not be as valuable as it could've been, unfortunately. Badly in need of divine grace.

Anyway l'm hopeful a healthier skepticism of government is one of the unintended consequences of this pandemic.

Online catfish1957

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1033 on: April 15, 2020, 01:49:12 pm »
Yep, the three channels we could get were all Watergate, all the time. "Glory days" for the Democrats, and they're trying desperately to relive them. Thank The Almighty they are failing.

Half the battle is channeling youngsters to content that makes sense and is correct.

Not easy, there are enough "crackpot" theories flying around to make the defense of "Conspiracy Theory" viable.
But the fact that such things are thriving, even though often based only on the part of the truth that reinforces those theories, indicates that people are not satisfied with the MSM version of reality and are looking for something that explains what isn't being reported or explained.
The trick with that is debunking conspiracy theories that can't pass muster (and they are legion) right along with the MSM crap.

Get them to look for the angle, the serious questions and the holes in the data, the details that prove someone is distorting reality. Show them how infection rates vs numbers vs percentage increases can all be presented to push one viewpoint over another, when they actually distort what is going on. How even nonstandard units of measure can be used to inflate impact (the most common in the media involve gallons or liters of oil spilled, when the standard unit of measure is either a cubic meter (Canada: 1000 liters) or a barrel (42 US Gallons).
 
The fundamental doubt is widespread, especially among the young, if/when they overcome parroting the popular propaganda, partly because the natural tendency to be rebellious at the transition from childhood to adulthood works in favor of that, and because they may have learned just enough to really start asking questions about the assumptions they were spoon fed. 

As such, we have been relegated to the 'counter-counterculture' (of the 60s): We are what Mao would have described as "counterrevolutionaries"
 
In that, the internet is a great marketplace for ideas as well.

The trick is to sort out and toss aside the guy with an agenda that is self serving over serving everyone, an important fundamental concept of Liberty and Basic Unalienable Rights (that we're all born with them, and even have them before we're born, not from the State, but from The Almighty).
 
While there are many different versions of religion and even those who don't belong to any specific one, the concept of some higher, ordering power in the universe is widespread. By example, by our own beliefs (and we will be asked) we can steer them closer, not only to a restored Republic, but to The Creator who inspired much of that thought.

I'm hardly evangelical material, I'm too rough around the edges, have to edit some of my posts before posting to remove profanity (I'm getting better about that, just because it is tedious), but I deeply believe. I won't force those beliefs on others but I don't mind answering questions and pointing them in the right direction, and don't mind presenting the Bible as a user's manual and guide for humans, not just some bunch of orders. Even the stories have lessons in them that open the way to belief in a benevolent God.

Good read.  I especially concur with how society has become so gullible, we allow certain elements / factions to seize and control the narrative.
Just my POV, but it seems in the past 40 years people in general have become less and less able to think and decide for themselves.  It just may end up being our undoing.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1034 on: April 15, 2020, 01:58:10 pm »
Was zinc included in the study?  Hydroxychloroquine does nothing without zinc.
I saw no mention of either Zinc Sulfate nor a macrolide antibiotic like Azithromycin.

No surprise that a stool missing two out of three legs isn't anything to sit on.

The proposed and claimed to be effective five day regimen included:

200 mg Hydroxychloroquine, twice daily (Provides a pathway through the cell membrane for the zinc)

500 mg Azithromycin (Zithromax) once daily (Helps reduce overactive immune response, interferes with viral rplication, guards against opportunistic bacterial infection)

220mg Zinc Sulfate once daily (provides the zinc the Hydroxychloroquine gets into the cell, which retards viral replication and the destruction of the cell)

The absence of one or more will reduce any effect.

Just one doesn't do it.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1035 on: April 15, 2020, 01:58:59 pm »
Just my POV, but it seems in the past 40 years people in general have become less and less able to think and decide for themselves.  It just may end up being our undoing.

This has been by design.  Orwell's 1984 has become their playbook.  From dumbing down the schools, breaking up families, re-instituting slave dependence on government checks, all the way to the impending collapse of Social Security, the Left is playing the long game to consolidate power by attaining total control over the proles.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1036 on: April 15, 2020, 02:04:09 pm »
I saw no mention of either Zinc Sulfate nor a macrolide antibiotic like Azithromycin.

No surprise that a stool missing two out of three legs isn't anything to sit on.

The proposed and claimed to be effective five day regimen included:

200 mg Hydroxychloroquine, twice daily (Provides a pathway through the cell membrane for the zinc)

500 mg Azithromycin (Zithromax) once daily (Helps reduce overactive immune response, interferes with viral rplication, guards against opportunistic bacterial infection)

220mg Zinc Sulfate once daily (provides the zinc the Hydroxychloroquine gets into the cell, which retards viral replication and the destruction of the cell)

The absence of one or more will reduce any effect.

Just one doesn't do it.

It's the zinc that kills the virus inside the cell and prevents it from replicating.  The hydroxychloroquine provides the vehicle for getting zinc inside the cell.  The fact that this is a Chinese study makes it suspect since China has applied for the patent for remdesivir (a drug developed by a US company which China is trying to steal).
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1037 on: April 15, 2020, 02:07:05 pm »

Net change in daily hospitalizations the past few weeks.
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Online catfish1957

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1038 on: April 15, 2020, 02:17:51 pm »

Net change in daily hospitalizations the past few weeks.

What is strange is how this thing is panning out statisically (at this very moment)

COVID

US Deaths= 26,950
Worldwide Deaths= 130,528

20.6% of all worldwide deaths

Worldwide population

US-335M
World- 7.8B

4.4% of the worlds population.

How this is being enumerated  stinks on so many levels, and makes no damned sense.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 02:48:30 pm by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline LadyLiberty

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1039 on: April 15, 2020, 02:20:23 pm »
This should get a good handle on how close we are to heard immunity.  The results will be peer-reviewed and published as soon as next week.


So when do I get to take one of those tests?  Or is it only available to men who bat .260 or better?

Did you read the article?  It's a scientific study that will give a good sample of major metropolitan areas.  It will include not only the players but front office, concession workers, janitors, etc. It won't include all of the ball teams. I imagine it would not be good sampling to include more than one team from the same metropolitan area, such as both the Mets and Yankees, or both the White Sox and Cubs. Some teams will not test every player. It will not help them to get back to work any sooner, and it's a completely different test from the one that tells if one is currently infected.

Again, from the article, they wanted to partner with a major corporation with employees in many metropolitan areas to get a good sample for the entire country.  Many were given the opportunity but MLB is the one that the quickest to cooperate.  Don't know who the others were that got the offer  (GE would have been a good candidate), but MLB beat the others out.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1040 on: April 15, 2020, 02:40:42 pm »
Did you read the article?  It's a scientific study that will give a good sample of major metropolitan areas.  It will include not only the players but front office, concession workers, janitors, etc. It won't include all of the ball teams. I imagine it would not be good sampling to include more than one team from the same metropolitan area, such as both the Mets and Yankees, or both the White Sox and Cubs. Some teams will not test every player. It will not help them to get back to work any sooner, and it's a completely different test from the one that tells if one is currently infected.

Again, from the article, they wanted to partner with a major corporation with employees in many metropolitan areas to get a good sample for the entire country.  Many were given the opportunity but MLB is the one that the quickest to cooperate.  Don't know who the others were that got the offer  (GE would have been a good candidate), but MLB beat the others out.

Their scientific study doesn't help me.  What would help me is knowing if I have developed antibodies for the virus.  The antibody test would do that.  But unfortunately, I cannot find a way to get one.

If I test positive for antibodies, I can then be tested for the virus.  If the second test comes up negative, then I am free and clear.  No more red tape BS.  No more having to report the names (and companies) of everyone I have come within 6 ft of including date and time for the last 3 weeks.  No more having to cower in my house when I could be out there helping others. 
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1041 on: April 15, 2020, 02:42:31 pm »
Good read.  I especially concur with how society has become so gullible, we allow certain elements / factions to seize and control the narrative.
Just my POV, but it seems in the past 40 years people in general have become less and less able to think and decide for themselves.  It just may end up being our undoing.
I think there has always been some of that. Maybe I just caught on early.
There was a time when academia jealously guarded its ranks, when advancement to positions of prestige were based on accomplishment. That transition came largely in the sixties, when the motivation for a college education shifted from sincerely desiring that greater level of learning to wanting to escape the clutches of the Draft.
With that additional influx, often of children from moneyed families came an influx of money into the University system, and with that money came students who may have been a mite less suited to the rigors of scientific or other curricula. The Departments which really blossomed in that era were not pre-med or physics, but sociology and psychology, largely theory, and where a case could be made for virtually any viewpoint (as the fields were growing by leaps and bounds) those majors also provided the means for students more interested in partying and avoiding service to get good enough grades to maintain their deferments.
Money flowed into the university system, and with the growing fields and departments, came the 'need' for jobs for those eventual graduates, so it wasn't long before the Studies were generated to tell us all how much we needed those particular professions to tell us all how to live, (funded by the public coffers, naturally), to create a job market for the swarms of students who were actually graduating and not busy jumping majors to stay in school and retain those draft deferments.
This happened in a particularly socially vulnerable era where fewer than 10% of Americans had a college degree, and that level of learning was generally respected by many who did not. When the 'experts' were few, and considered to be highly respected, people tended to believe, especially since professional reputations were hanging in the balance.

But some of us, even then questioned people like the guys who said "Turn on, Tune in, Drop out" and then took their turned on dropped out self to the airport and flew to the next town to preach their folly again.
(Where were drugged, dropped out people getting all the money to fly around the country, anyway?)
Even then, people didn't question experts, and now we live in an age where nearly a third of the population has a degree, and while you would expect them to be well enough educated to question much of what they see and hear, the process of education has become one of indoctrination, of suppressing to the point of failing those  who question, and lauding those who parrot what they have been told to believe.
Unfortunately, that has carried over into virtually every facet of life, and the fashion experts are busy lauding the emperor's new clothes, while we can all see the apparent lack of wardrobe.

Kids, though, see what is and what isn't. If grandma is fat, they'll say so. If that show dog smells bad and poops on the floor, they'll mention it. They don't care how many ribbons or what the stud fees are.
So, we have to get them started asking questions (natural enough for the young) before they get shut down, and then step in to defend them for doing so (because those who demand blind compliance will punish them for it.)
And we need to ask a lot more questions ourselves, to expose this nonsense.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1042 on: April 15, 2020, 02:44:49 pm »
"This is COVID-19, not COVID-1 folks, and so you would think the people in charge of the World Health Organization, facts and figures, would be on top of that."  - Kellyanne Conway on Fox today

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1043 on: April 15, 2020, 02:50:02 pm »
Did you read the article?  It's a scientific study that will give a good sample of major metropolitan areas.  It will include not only the players but front office, concession workers, janitors, etc. It won't include all of the ball teams. I imagine it would not be good sampling to include more than one team from the same metropolitan area, such as both the Mets and Yankees, or both the White Sox and Cubs. Some teams will not test every player. It will not help them to get back to work any sooner, and it's a completely different test from the one that tells if one is currently infected.

Again, from the article, they wanted to partner with a major corporation with employees in many metropolitan areas to get a good sample for the entire country.  Many were given the opportunity but MLB is the one that the quickest to cooperate.  Don't know who the others were that got the offer  (GE would have been a good candidate), but MLB beat the others out.
A caution. Half of the country, roughly speaking, doesn't live in major metropolitan areas, but in the vast expanses between them.
I am concerned that the results of any study conducted only in major metro areas will not allow for the factors unique to that environment versus the factors present (and not) in more rural venues, and as such, any rules or guidelines proposed as a result of those studies will be imposed on rural areas as well without regard for the appropriateness of those measures for the rural environs. One size does not fit all.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1044 on: April 15, 2020, 03:16:06 pm »
Not just the vehicle, but the driver (CCP).

 :yowsa: With the willing assistance of a great number here.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Online catfish1957

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1045 on: April 15, 2020, 03:24:57 pm »
"This is COVID-19, not COVID-1 folks, and so you would think the people in charge of the World Health Organization, facts and figures, would be on top of that."  - Kellyanne Conway on Fox today

Part of the function of the WHO is to dispatch resouces to isolate, and contain events like this.  According to the Hopkins site, 20% of the deaths from this disease are in the U.S.  I agree with the POTUS.....   The money spent on this farce has failed us.  Cut 'em. 
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1046 on: April 15, 2020, 03:34:39 pm »
Part of the function of the WHO is to dispatch resouces to isolate, and contain events like this.  According to the Hopkins site, 20% of the deaths from this disease are in the U.S.  I agree with the POTUS.....   The money spent on this farce has failed us.  Cut 'em.
I was just pointing out that Conway doesn't know the 19 in COVID-19  comes from the year 2019.  It kind of undercuts her expertise.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1047 on: April 15, 2020, 03:38:27 pm »
Some good news from Ohio today (even though cases and deaths continue to rise).......

Ohio hospitals are putting together a plan to begin elective surgeries again.

Gov. DeWine is meeting with Ohio industries to begin to restart non-essential businesses.

When the stay at home orders diminish, Ohio is going to be ready to resume its robust economy.

Buckeye Strong!  Leading the way.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1048 on: April 15, 2020, 03:39:02 pm »
I was just pointing out that Conway doesn't know the 19 in COVID-19  comes from the year 2019.  It kind of undercuts her expertise.

Me on another tangent?   Nahhhhhhhh.....    Still, I put WHO up there with the UN and NATO...   Time to stop underwriting these NWO boondoggles with United States tax dollars.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #1049 on: April 15, 2020, 03:49:31 pm »
Me on another tangent?   Nahhhhhhhh.....    Still, I put WHO up there with the UN and NATO...   Time to stop underwriting these NWO boondoggles with United States tax dollars.
There are certainly a lot of people who agree with you.  I think the fund-freezing announcement would have been better saved for a month or two from now, but the President is desperate to get any news...even bad news...to cover over the 2.4K deaths from yesterday.  When the world is in the middle of a pandemic announcing a cut with the World Health Organization looks insane to rat and moderate voters...and some GOP voters I assume.  If he could have he should have waited until we re-open.  JMO