Author Topic: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy  (Read 844 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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August 4, 2019
The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
By Monica Showalter

The left is trying to make political hay again over a mass shooting in El Paso and then another one in Dayton, blaming the whole thing on -- take your pick, guns, President Trump, or white supremacy. Just look at them go and this is hardly a comprehensive sampling of all versions of these same arguments out there:

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https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/08/the_lefts_big_blame_game_after_el_paso_guns_trump_white_supremacy.html
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2019, 01:29:05 pm »
August 4, 2019
The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
By Monica Showalter

The left is trying to make political hay again over a mass shooting in El Paso and then another one in Dayton, blaming the whole thing on -- take your pick, guns, President Trump, or white supremacy. Just look at them go and this is hardly a comprehensive sampling of all versions of these same arguments out there:

more
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/08/the_lefts_big_blame_game_after_el_paso_guns_trump_white_supremacy.html

@mystery-ak

A VERY obvious example of this can be seen on Meet the Depressed. That little homo Chuck Todd is caught setting up a rehearsed cry for gun control with one of his guests. I just posted a thread about this. She had forgotten she was supposed to say it,had tried to sign off,and he had to remind her TWICE that she "has something more to say to our elected officials in Washington" before her memory is jogged,and she then reads it off a piece of paper.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline goatprairie

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2019, 02:35:18 pm »
The nut in Texas is not an easy one to pigeonhole. Part of his deranged manifesto has leftist elements, and some are alt-right/racist.
He hates corporations and people "destroying" the planet, but he also hates immigrants. Not just illegal immigrants but all immigrants.

Bill Cipher

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2019, 05:02:44 pm »
The main blame should be placed on Hollywood, and it’s constant pitch that violence is the only legitimate way to “solve” problems.  The Punisher, Denzel Washington’s Equalizer movies, etc, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseam.

Advertising works.  And advertising violence in the soft-porn way that Hollywood has been doing for decades is clearly paying dividends now. 

Offline Sanguine

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2019, 05:09:11 pm »
The main blame should be placed on Hollywood, and it’s constant pitch that violence is the only legitimate way to “solve” problems.  The Punisher, Denzel Washington’s Equalizer movies, etc, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseam.

Advertising works.  And advertising violence in the soft-porn way that Hollywood has been doing for decades is clearly paying dividends now.

Yes, enough with the "it's just a movie" excuse.  They are creating a reality in each movie they put out.  And, almost all of those realities are bad. 

Bill Cipher

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2019, 05:21:22 pm »
Yes, enough with the "it's just a movie" excuse.  They are creating a reality in each movie they put out.  And, almost all of those realities are bad. 

Yes.  And the issue is not to get trapped into the false position of saying that violent movies cause otherwise normal people to become violent.  That is not the problem.  The problem is that these movies create a socio/cultural expectation that it is acceptable to kill people whom one subjectively blames for one’s problems.  This sort of cultural story sucks in precisely those people who are already weak and have psychological and social problems, like the so-called incels, and it “sells” them on the belief that it is acceptable to deal with their “enemies” - like the Kens and Barbies the incels deride - with violence.

If Hollywood and all the leftist actors want to really take a stand against violence, then they should commit to not making any movie that tells the narrative that violence, particularly gun violence, is an appropriate way to deal with people you think are oppressing you. 

And the people who own the rights to pre-existing movies that glorify personal violence should put those movies in the vault, refrain from showing them or licensing them for show, and should take action against anyone who shows those movies in violation of the licensing ban.

People are up in arms about the companies that make money off of people’s pain and addiction to prescription pain medication.  What about the people who make billions off of selling personal violence to psychologically weak people in a way that makes it more likely that those people will resort to violence to deal with their inner demons?

If Purdue pharma is to blame for the opioid overdose deaths of people who become addicted to the medications Purdue sells, then Hollywood and every actor who has starred in a movie that glorifies personal violence is to blame for the murders committed by these sorts of psychologically sick individuals.   

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2019, 05:55:44 pm »
The main blame should be placed on Hollywood, and it’s constant pitch that violence is the only legitimate way to “solve” problems.  The Punisher, Denzel Washington’s Equalizer movies, etc, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseam.

Us mainly white, boomers grew up on televised violence, from cowboys, to military, etc.

You don't see us every other day, killing our neighbors?

These 20 something fellows are "victims" of bad parents, bad teachers, lack of consequences, etc.


When they run out of the thrill of a "like" they go for greater dopomine feedback.

We hear nothing from "jounalism," about their parents,siblings, friends, teachers, contacts with LE,  etc.

Jounalism is dead.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Bill Cipher

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2019, 06:00:12 pm »
Us mainly white, boomers grew up on televised violence, from cowboys, to military, etc.

You don't see us every other day, killing our neighbors?

These 20 something fellows are "victims" of bad parents, bad teachers, lack of consequences, etc.


When they run out of the thrill of a "like" they go for greater dopomine feedback.

We hear nothing from "jounalism," about their parents,siblings, friends, teachers, contacts with LE,  etc.

Jounalism is dead.

Not the sort of revenge fantasy violence that has come to dominate a particular genre of movies that is very popular, especially with young men. 

In the movies and TV shows you grew up with, violence wasn’t glorified and the good guys didn’t resort to it until and unless the bad guys came gunning for them. 

Now, the genre of movies I have in mind glorifies the loner’s resort to violence in the first instance to avenge or to get revenge.

The movies today are qualitatively different from the movies and TV you grew up on, and have become the soft-porn equivalent for violence. 

Offline dfwgator

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2019, 06:02:45 pm »
Not the sort of revenge fantasy violence that has come to dominate a particular genre of movies that is very popular, especially with young men. 

In the movies and TV shows you grew up with, violence wasn’t glorified and the good guys didn’t resort to it until and unless the bad guys came gunning for them. 

Now, the genre of movies I have in mind glorifies the loner’s resort to violence in the first instance to avenge or to get revenge.

The movies today are qualitatively different from the movies and TV you grew up on, and have become the soft-porn equivalent for violence.

I think it started with "Natural Born Killers".

Bill Cipher

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2019, 06:05:41 pm »
I think it started with "Natural Born Killers".

I’m not exactly sure where it started. I think that it’s roots can be traced to movies like Charles Bronson’s movie Death Wish.  Also, the Dirty Harry movies. 

Offline sneakypete

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2019, 06:22:10 pm »
Us mainly white, boomers grew up on televised violence, from cowboys, to military, etc.

You don't see us every other day, killing our neighbors?

These 20 something fellows are "victims" of bad parents, bad teachers, lack of consequences, etc.


When they run out of the thrill of a "like" they go for greater dopomine feedback.

We hear nothing from "jounalism," about their parents,siblings, friends, teachers, contacts with LE,  etc.

Jounalism is dead.

@truth_seeker

This is a problem with multiple-roots,and none of them involve guns.

What the roots are is a result of the culture change in America in the last 30 or so years. Below is a list of what *I* see as the root problems,not necessarily in importance.

1: No more "Leave it to Beave" typical homelife,where the dad works,the mom stays home to mind the children,and the children are raised to know and accept they have  responsibilities. The typical parent of today barely even knows their children. They both go off to work each morning pretty much leaving the kids to manage their own lives until 5 PM or so. What eventually happens is you get a group of strangers living together than don't really have much in common. The kids can relate to each other,but their parents are little more than adults that happen to share living space with them.

2:Technological advances. Oftentimes today children have "I-POD Babysitters",and the sad,sad truth is the video games and smart phones are probably the best babysitters ever if you seek a babysitter that keeps your kid mostly quiet and totally distracted. There damn sure ain't any actual human contact/interaction happening there though,so a LOT more kids grow up with the label "troubled loner" now than ever before. Making this MUCH worse is the abundance and popularity of the violent "shoot 'em up!" games. These kids "kill" hundreds of people daily,sometimes with very real images. They are pretty much immune to the IDEA of violent deaths by the time they are 10. Doesn't mean a thing to them because children have a hard time separating reality from fiction when the fiction they see is so life-like.

3: The inclination of what amounts to "part-time parents" to overlook problems when they first start,and the reluctance they have to do or say anything because they feel a little guilty about neglecting them. NOT guilty enough to lower their standard of living to the point one of them has to drive a used car and they can no longer live in a neighborhood they can't afford,mind you. Most of this could be avoided if mom or dad,it doesn't matter which,was there in the morning to make their breakfast and see them off to school,and there again in the afternoon,where they are EXPECTED to return immediately after school to discuss today's issues,if any, with a parent,and to ASK PERMISSION to go to a friends house,etc,etc,etc. Kids like this know that things are expected of them,and that gives them a sense of belonging.

I am sure there are others you could mention,but this ain't my book to write,so please feel free to add any  you think of.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 06:25:03 pm by sneakypete »
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Bill Cipher

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2019, 06:24:36 pm »
@truth_seeker

This is a problem with multiple-roots,and none of them involve guns.

What the roots are is a result of the culture change in America in the last 30 or so years. Below is a list of what *I* see as the root problems,not necessarily in importance.

1: No more "Leave it to Beave" typical homelife,where the dad works,the mom stays home to mind the children,and the children are raised to know and accept they have  responsibilities. The typical parent of today barely even knows their children. They both go off to work each morning pretty much leaving the kids to manage their own lives until 5 PM or so. What eventually happens is you get a group of strangers living together than don't really have much in common. The kids can relate to each other,but their parents are little more than adults that happen to share living space with them.

2:Technological advances. Oftentimes today children have "I-POD Babysitters",and the sad,sad truth is the video games and smart phones are probably the best babysitters ever if you seek a babysitter that keeps your kid mostly quiet and totally distracted. There damn sure ain't any actual human contact/interaction happening there though,so a LOT more kids grow up with the label "troubled loner" now than every before. Making this MUCH worse is the abundance and popularity of the violent "shoot 'em up!" games. These kids "kill" hundreds of people daily,sometimes with very real images. They are pretty much immune to the IDEA of violent deaths by the time they are 10. Doesn't mean a thing to them because children have a hard time separating reality from fiction when the fiction they see is so life-like.

3: The inclination of what amounts to "part-time parents" to overlook problems when they first start,and the reluctance they have to do or say anything because they feel a little guilty about neglecting them. NOT guilty enough to lower their standard of living to the point one of them has to drive a used car and they can no longer live in a neighborhood they can't afford,mind you. Most of this could be avoided if mom or dad,it doesn't matter which,was there in the morning to make their breakfast and see them off to school,and there again in the afternoon,where they are EXPECTED to return immediately after school to discuss today's issue with a parent,and to ASK PERMISSION to go to a friends house,etc,etc,etc. Kids like this know that things are expected of them,and that gives them a sense of belonging.

I am sure there are others you could mention,but this ain't my book to write,so please feel free to add any  you think of.

And why would any of that lead to violence the way it has in the US?  Particularly since it hasn’t led to anywhere near the same level of violence in other Western counties where child-rearing is the same or even more hands-off?

Offline sneakypete

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2019, 06:31:33 pm »
Quote
And why would any of that lead to violence the way it has in the US?


It seems as obvious as the noonday sun to me. Children are nothing more than wild animals that need to be tamed and taught responsibility.

 
Quote
Particularly since it hasn’t led to anywhere near the same level of violence in other Western counties where child-rearing is the same or even more hands-off?

You have never lived in other countries,have you? In every other country I am familiar with,the children are never left alone unsupervised. There is always someone,usually a grandmother and/or grandfather at home during the day to socialize with any children still at home,and to see them off in the morning and greet them when they come home after school. Also,most of the families in foreign countries have been living in the same areas with the same neighbor families for generations.

And that is just the surface of it. Other countries are NOT America,with the possible exception of most of Canada.
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Bill Cipher

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2019, 06:42:37 pm »


It seems as obvious as the noonday sun to me. Children are nothing more than wild animals that need to be tamed and taught responsibility.

 
You have never lived in other countries,have you? In every other country I am familiar with,the children are never left alone unsupervised. There is always someone,usually a grandmother and/or grandfather at home during the day to socialize with any children still at home,and to see them off in the morning and greet them when they come home after school. Also,most of the families in foreign countries have been living in the same areas with the same neighbor families for generations.

And that is just the surface of it. Other countries are NOT America,with the possible exception of most of Canada.

Totally wrong on more levels than is funny. 

Children are not “clearly” wild little animals that turn to violence if left unsupervised.  And yes, I’ve lived in quite a few different countries and the level of hands off is just as great in any number of other countries. 

The only thing that would allow a lack of supervision to ripen into violence would be the presence of something - such as easily available violent movies - that inculcated into the too-young viewers who were at risk psychologically the belief that violence was the correct way to deal with problems and conflict. 

Perhaps you should stop staring at the noonday Sun hoping for wisdom and start using the brains God gave you. 

« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 06:43:56 pm by Bill Cipher »

Offline goatprairie

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2019, 06:52:41 pm »
Yes, enough with the "it's just a movie" excuse.  They are creating a reality in each movie they put out.  And, almost all of those realities are bad.
I and millions of other boys of my age who grew up in the fifties and sixties watching many westerns and cop shows on tv and in the movies where the problem was solved with the good guy shooting the bad guy. Gunsmoke's Marshall Matt Dillon must have shot and killed five hundred or more bad guys in the course of the series. That was just one western.
We didn't have these numbers of mass killings like we do now. We had a fraction of them. Charles Whitman's shooting people in Texas is the only one I can remember from the sixties. There were killers like Charles Starkweather who killed ten or so people in the fifties and serial killers in both decades. But mass shootings were fairly rare.
Something else is going on.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2019, 06:57:42 pm »
Totally wrong on more levels than is funny. 

Quote
Children are not “clearly” wild little animals that turn to violence if left unsupervised.


@Bill Cipher

You DO know what "children" are,right? It's obvious you don't remember being one,or being around one.

After reading that I know you have nothing of interest to contribute to this subject.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline goatprairie

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2019, 06:58:47 pm »
I’m not exactly sure where it started. I think that it’s roots can be traced to movies like Charles Bronson’s movie Death Wish.  Also, the Dirty Harry movies.
"The Wild Bunch" (1969) I believe was the first movie that supposedly shocked a lot of people with the  amounts of blood and gore never  before seen in such quantities and much of it done in slow motion. Previous westerns had shown a little blood and gore. Many older westerns and cop shows didn't show any.  Even army shows didn't show much blood.
The director, Sam Peckinpaugh, said he was trying to show the evil of killing people, but it might have had a reverse effect.

Bill Cipher

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2019, 07:02:45 pm »
I and millions of other boys of my age who grew up in the fifties and sixties watching many westerns and cop shows on tv and in the movies where the problem was solved with the good guy shooting the bad guy. Gunsmoke's Marshall Matt Dillon must have shot and killed five hundred or more bad guys in the course of the series. That was just one western.
We didn't have these numbers of mass killings like we do now. We had a fraction of them. Charles Whitman's shooting people in Texas is the only one I can remember from the sixties. There were killers like Charles Starkweather who killed ten or so people in the fifties and serial killers in both decades. But mass shootings were fairly rare.
Something else is going on.

Completely different portrayal of violence and the uses of violence.  The good guys only used violence when it was necessary to defend themselves against immediate threats of deadly violence from the bad guys. 

It wasn’t until the 1970s that we began to get movies where the good guy was a socially isolated loner who resorted to violence in the first instance, or who resorted to violence for revenge or vengeance. 

Charles Bronson’s Death Wish movie was a soft-porn revenge fantasy that started our culture down the path of validating the use of violence as an acceptable means of dealing with conflict.

Then we also started to get the movies that simply glorified the violent bad guys as anti-heroes to be mimicked. 

The movies and TV in the 1950s and 1960s never crossed those lines. 

If the good guy in those shows started the violence, he usually ends up regretting it.  The overarching theme was that it was ok to use violence as a means of defending yourself from imminent violence - the bad guy who was already shooting at you - but that when the good guy crossed the line and resorted to violence for revenge or vengeance, he usually ended up harming what he was trying to save, and often paid the ultimate price himself. 

Bill Cipher

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2019, 07:06:42 pm »
"The Wild Bunch" (1969) I believe was the first movie that supposedly shocked a lot of people with the  amounts of blood and gore never  before seen in such quantities and much of it done in slow motion. Previous westerns had shown a little blood and gore. Many older westerns and cop shows didn't show any.  Even army shows didn't show much blood.
The director, Sam Peckinpaugh, said he was trying to show the evil of killing people, but it might have had a reverse effect.

I don’t think it’s just the level of gore shown, but rather the issue of whether resort to violence to avenge your subjective sense of being wronged is legitimate or not. 

The opening scenes of Saving Private Ryan we’re soaked in gore, but I don’t think anyone would argue that those scenes, or the movie as a whole, would legitimize the first use of lethal violence as a way of dealing with conflict in peacetime civil society.

However, movies like Bronson’s Death Wish did exactly that.  Even though the level of gore in that movie was trivial. 

Offline sneakypete

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2019, 07:08:52 pm »
Quote
I and millions of other boys of my age who grew up in the fifties and sixties watching many westerns and cop shows on tv and in the movies where the problem was solved with the good guy shooting the bad guy.

The way I remember it was the usually just shot the gun out of the bad-guy's hand,without even making it bleed.

Quote
Gunsmoke's Marshall Matt Dillon must have shot and killed five hundred or more bad guys in the course of the series. That was just one western.

I honestly don't remember if Dillion ever killed anyone or not,and it really doesn't matter because your point is on target,even if the focus is off a little.

"The Message being sent" was YOU DO NOT KILL ANYONE UNLESS YOU HAVE NO CHOICE" .

The whole "base" of the western tv shows was that you never get violent unless you are attacked,and then you defeat the attacker using the least amount of force to become "A HERO!"

What little boy back then didn't want to grow up to become a hero?

With todays videos and movies,the "hero" is almost as likely to be a villain as a former Boy Scout.  There just doesn't seem to be many lines separating the good from the evil.

And as movies got more realistic,even the genuine heroes of a movie or tv show did plenty of killing and maiming.

You can watch Braveheart or any other Mel Gibson movie to find an example of this,and Mel generally didn't seem to go for the gore compared to others. The thing is you and I were watching these movies through the eyes of adults who know something of the historical background,and kids are just watching them for excitement.
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Bill Cipher

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2019, 07:09:30 pm »


@Bill Cipher

You DO know what "children" are,right? It's obvious you don't remember being one,or being around one.

After reading that I know you have nothing of interest to contribute to this subject.

Stop staring into the noonday Sun.  You’re killing off whatever remaining brain cells you might have.  I remember full well my childhood, and the fact that I and my friends had precious little supervision after school.  The closest we ever got to violence was playing Dungeons and Dragons on occasion. 

Offline goatprairie

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2019, 07:10:50 pm »
I don’t think it’s just the level of gore shown, but rather the issue of whether resort to violence to avenge your subjective sense of being wronged is legitimate or not. 

The opening scenes of Saving Private Ryan we’re soaked in gore, but I don’t think anyone would argue that those scenes, or the movie as a whole, would legitimize the first use of lethal violence as a way of dealing with conflict in peacetime civil society.

However, movies like Bronson’s Death Wish did exactly that.  Even though the level of gore in that movie was trivial.
The charge against Peckinpaugh was that he sensationalized the violence to a degree never seen before. They claimed he was making it attractive to impressionable viewers.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2019, 07:11:10 pm »
Stop staring into the noonday Sun.  You’re killing off whatever remaining brain cells you might have.  I remember full well my childhood, and the fact that I and my friends had precious little supervision after school.  The closest we ever got to violence was playing Dungeons and Dragons on occasion.

@Bill Cipher

ROFLMAO!
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Bill Cipher

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2019, 07:14:21 pm »
@Bill Cipher

ROFLMAO!

Laugh all you want to, boy, that merely demonstrates your lack of argument.  You may have been one of the psychological defectives as a child, but most of us weren’t and aren’t.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: The left's big blame game after El Paso: Guns, Trump, white supremacy
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2019, 07:14:57 pm »
Us mainly white, boomers grew up on televised violence, from cowboys, to military, etc.

You don't see us every other day, killing our neighbors?

These 20 something fellows are "victims" of bad parents, bad teachers, lack of consequences, etc.


When they run out of the thrill of a "like" they go for greater dopomine feedback.

We hear nothing from "jounalism," about their parents,siblings, friends, teachers, contacts with LE,  etc.

Jounalism is dead.

@truth_seeker go read this one and tell me what you think?  http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,370918.msg2025268.html#msg2025268