Cheerleaders must be dropped from sport (POSTED FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY)

[Silver Pines]

@Dexter

Femininity and masculinity are social constructs that are detrimental to mental health. Society needs to stop telling people who they're supposed to be.

They're not social constructs.  For the most part, they're hard-wired.

Just for clarification, which emotions are girl emotions and which ones are boy emotions? I didn't realize there's a difference.

That's a false premise, though.  Emotions themselves aren't divided by male or female.  There do tend to be differences in how men and woman react and display emotions, etc. 

I don't consider that a problem.  I never knew a woman who liked a weepy man.

@Dexter

[Dexter]

Why do you think these traditions developed? 

Survival adaptations that are no longer needed in the modern world.

Yes, girls and boys are different.  Both physically and mentally.  That's really not up for question, except by those who are ignorant of the basic facts of life.

I think they're very different but also that that chasm isn't as big as many assume.

I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate there.

I'm saying I don't think that's a good enough answer.

You just provide support for my point #2, above.

That's fine. I'm trying to wind these conversations down anyway because I'm not interested in getting into a 200 page discussion about society and gender standards with a bunch of people that all disagree with me. I think everybody will save some sanity that way. I hope you understand. 

[Dexter]

I never knew a woman who liked a weepy man.

Overemotional weepy men probably have it bad enough without a bunch of tough guys pushing them down a little bit more. Just let people exist unmolested by your judgment in my opinion.

[Dexter]

Half the time I'm thinking it is a female.

Would that matter?

[Silver Pines]

@CatherineofAragon

You should have stopped writing with "I don't know,Pete."

@sneakypete

[Silver Pines]

Overemotional weepy men probably have it bad enough without a bunch of tough guys pushing them down a little bit more. Just let people exist unmolested by your judgment in my opinion.

@Dexter

But there's naturally going to be judgment involved in relationships, and when it comes to the sexes intermingling.  Otherwise we'd pair off with the first person we saw.

Also, a man doesn't have to be a stereotypical Marlboro man to not be weepy.  Then again, he may be that.  But toughness is a lot more attractive to a woman than tears.

[Dexter]

@Dexter

But there's naturally going to be judgment involved in relationships, and when it comes to the sexes intermingling.  Otherwise we'd pair off with the first person we saw.

Also, a man doesn't have to be a stereotypical Marlboro man to not be weepy.  Then again, he may be that.  But toughness is a lot more attractive to a woman than tears.

I tend to believe that there's somebody for everybody. I think we should stop putting pressure on people to be this way or that way and just let them feel free to be alive and be themselves in whatever capacity they want. I agree with some of what some of you say that suggests that the left is pushing their own kind of standards onto the sexes. I think that is wrong in the other direction. Just leave people the bleep alone if they're not breaking our laws.

[RoosGirl]

Overemotional weepy men probably have it bad enough without a bunch of tough guys pushing them down a little bit more. Just let people exist unmolested by your judgment in my opinion.

Listen, I went out to dinner tonight with my husband and refrained from pointing and laughing at the millenial "men" at the next table over drinking fruity mixed drinks.  People are existing unmolested just fine.

[Cyber Liberty]

No, I think society is constructed around the differences in the sexes and not the other way around.  There are outliers in any population.

Bingo!  And...I think it's harmful to the society at large to break its back trying to bend over to cater to the outliers.

[Silver Pines]

I tend to believe that there's somebody for everybody. I think we should stop putting pressure on people to be this way or that way and just let them feel free to be alive and be themselves in whatever capacity they want. I agree with some of what some of you say that suggests that the left is pushing their own kind of standards onto the sexes. I think that is wrong in the other direction. Just leave people the bleep alone if they're not breaking our laws.

@Dexter

I don't agree.  I read a news story about a mother who polished her little boy's nails and sent him to school.  He got a hard time from the rest of the kids, especially the boys, and came home crying.  The kid's father said no more nail polish, but the mother says she's going to continue sending him to school with painted nails because he should be true to himself, or whatever garbage.

That's a pathetic excuse for a mother, and an idiot, as well.  She's willing to use her son to push a deranged social agenda, even if it makes him miserable at school.  The father is right.  I hope he disregards her stupidity and tells the little boy "Your mom is wrong, boys don't wear nail polish."

There are instances where judgment or pressure or whatever you want to call it are desperately needed.

[Cyber Liberty]

@Dexter

I don't agree.  I read a news story about a mother who polished her little boy's nails and sent him to school.  He got a hard time from the rest of the kids, especially the boys, and came home crying.  The kid's father said no more nail polish, but the mother says she's going to continue sending him to school with painted nails because he should be true to himself, or whatever garbage.

That's a pathetic excuse for a mother, and an idiot, as well.  She's willing to use her son to push a deranged social agenda, even if it makes him miserable at school.  The father is right.  I hope he disregards her stupidity and tells the little boy "Your mom is wrong, boys don't wear nail polish."

There are instances where judgment or pressure or whatever you want to call it are desperately needed.

Between his lines I read "People should never be told "No!"  Ever.  If you're a grown-up, designated biologically to be a male, and you want to go to the little girls room, it's wrong for society to tell him he can't.

Maybe I'm wrong about this.  Maybe I'm just an old man who can't keep up with the things I'm supposed to.

Get off my lawn!

[Silver Pines]

Between his lines I read "People should never be told "No!"  Ever.  If you're a grown-up, designated biologically to be a male, and you want to go to the little girls room, it's wrong for society to tell him he can't.

Maybe I'm wrong about this.  Maybe I'm just an old man who can't keep up with the things I'm supposed to.

Get off my lawn!

@Cyber Liberty

You're not wrong. 

Applying pressure to your own child is also known as "raising him."  Kids don't know what's best for them.

[Dexter]

If you're a grown-up, designated biologically to be a male, and you want to go to the little girls room, it's wrong for society to tell him he can't.

No.

Once your bullshit starts to make other people uncomfortable for legitimate reasons it's a different story. There are two genders and people need to use the appropriate bathroom regardless of how much it offends them.

[Cyber Liberty]

No.

Once your bullshit starts to make other people uncomfortable for legitimate reasons it's a different story. There are two genders and people need to use the appropriate bathroom regardless of how much it offends them.

Really?  What happens when the Masters of Society decide "being uncomfortable" is illegitimate for bigots and Homophobes?  What if those Masters decide there it no excuse for a Christian cake baker to refuse to cater a same-sex marriage?

"Bigots have no right to be offended" is their battle cry.  You should know that, you have all their talking points down pat.

[DB]

Really?  What happens when the Masters of Society decide "being uncomfortable" is illegitimate for bigots and Homophobes?  What if those Masters decide there it no excuse for a Christian cake baker to refuse to cater a same-sex marriage?

"Bigots have no right to be offended" is their battle cry.  You should know that, you have all their talking points down pat.

The first amendment is bluntly about the right to offend. Uncomfortable is not a constitutional legal standard.

[Dexter]

Really?  What happens when the Masters of Society decide "being uncomfortable" is illegitimate for bigots and Homophobes?

Depending on the specific circumstances there's a good chance I'd be arguing against it alongside you.

What if those Masters decide there it no excuse for a Christian cake baker to refuse to cater a same-sex marriage?

Same as above. I think a private business should have the right to refuse service to anybody for any reason. In fact I think business owners should still be allowed to hang signs that say "No blacks allowed." if they want. If they're passionate enough about that statement to take the hit to their sales then I say go nuts. It's not like people don't have a million other options. I don't think people should be forced to be politically correct. I just think it'd be awful nice of them in a lot of cases.

"Bigots have no right to be offended"

If only you knew how many times I've been called a Nazi sympathizer for suggesting that no point of view is unworthy of discussion. "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without accepting it."

You should know that, you have all their talking points down pat.

Do you really think I'm just like them?

[Cyber Liberty]

Do you really think I'm just like them?

No, I don't think so.  You made a lot of good points in this post, so you can talk the talk.  I'll decide after you walk the walk (as I do with everybody else).  You've been scarce a long time, so I choose to develop my opinion afresh.  I think there are a lot of people being forced to do things they don't feel comfortable with, so I think "society" is on the wrong track.

[Smokin Joe]

Culture is not incapable of change. I think young men need to be taught that their emotions are normal and healthy instead of being made to feel like they're only men if they're stoic and emotionless. This stuff hurts everybody. It's not about just women being victims of sexism. Society has unfair expectations of both sexes.

you can teach them all that, but the first time that sod starts crying because they got disappointed, they won't get any respect, even from the women who want them to be more freely emotional. Seriously, that crap was tried in the 80s.
People respect strength, the strength that permits a person to continue on, regardless of their feelings. If anything, people need to be tougher, not sniveling snowflakes.

As far as men 'objectifying' a pretty woman, or women 'objectifying' a handsome man, it happens. It's human nature, and while one can certainly be civilized about the fact and recognize certain social amenities, you won't change human nature. Departure from human nature only creates more confusion, as social rigors demand people to deny their fundamental being--all sorts of hang-ups and confusion will result (and have).

[Dexter]

you can teach them all that, but the first time that sod starts crying because they got disappointed, they won't get any respect, even from the women who want them to be more freely emotional. Seriously, that crap was tried in the 80s.
People respect strength, the strength that permits a person to continue on, regardless of their feelings. If anything, people need to be tougher, not sniveling snowflakes.

As far as men 'objectifying' a pretty woman, or women 'objectifying' a handsome man, it happens. It's human nature, and while one can certainly be civilized about the fact and recognize certain social amenities, you won't change human nature. Departure from human nature only creates more confusion, as social rigors demand people to deny their fundamental being--all sorts of hang-ups and confusion will result (and have).

I think the human psychological state is a lot more malleable than a lot of people assume. Human nature can change. Animals adapt to new situations and shed behaviors that are no longer needed. I believe what we're witnessing these days, and what a lot of you are alarmed about, is simply cultural evolution. The world changes, and in a world where things move faster than ever things are also going to change faster than ever. A lot of y'all hate it, but you're witnessing the future of humanity. Maybe you think these things will lead to our doom, but I don't. I think one day a more enlightened humanity will look back on us similarly to the way we look back on ancient and ignorant cultures.

[Smokin Joe]

Yeah, because women are more worried about things like personality due to being more developed emotionally typically, while guys will often times chase after anything that looks good physically.

I have nine granddaughters, and I'm going to call BS on that.

Women may be attracted by personality, but If I had a dollar for every woman who ever endured a seriously bad relationship because she 'fell in love' with some 'hot' guy, I could buy out George Soros.

The social convention that somehow women are immune to glandular disruption incited by appearances is indeed a fallacy, and that is evident to those of us who have observed that disruption, despite the well ingrained social convention to deny or conceal that behaviour. There are physical 'tells; which often indicate it has occurred, even in the most reserved individuals. Anyone who maintains to the contrary is just wrong.

Physical attraction is often what gets that foot in the door to develop a relationship--very few will pursue people they find hard to look at. Development of a relationship beyond that relies on that ice breaking moment--a moment so incredibly many people seem to be hung up over, bungle, or pursue with a degree of ardor that it precludes any further development. 

[Smokin Joe]

I think the human psychological state is a lot more malleable than a lot of people assume. Human nature can change. Animals adapt to new situations and shed behaviors that are no longer needed. I believe what we're witnessing these days, and what a lot of you are alarmed about, is simply cultural evolution. The world changes, and in a world where things move faster than ever things are also going to change faster than ever. A lot of y'all hate it, but you're witnessing the future of humanity. Maybe you think these things will lead to our doom, but I don't. I think one day a more enlightened humanity will look back on us similarly to the way we look back on ancient and ignorant cultures.

Ha ha. Human nature remains wrapped around the same bsaic emotions it always has.

The desire to:

have a full belly
have shelter, a safe place,
have progeny--to "breed"
while some are content with that, there also remain

Anger
jealousy
frustration
avarice
narcissism


These have been with humans, collectively, since the Garden, and will be.

We have merely taken the conquering hordes and given them offices, public and private, where they concoct rules which enable their evil without so much as getting spattered with gore. You can hide the good or bad behind the masks of civility and convince yourself you have eliminated the evil, but it only is better hidden by some, it does not go away.

[Dexter]

The social convention that somehow women are immune to glandular disruption

I don't think any sane person would make a claim like that. The issue is the imbalance. I do not believe humanity is incapable of making some cultural adjustments that would benefit the mental health of a lot of people.

[Smokin Joe]

I don't think any sane person would make a claim like that. The issue is the imbalance. I do not believe humanity is incapable of making some cultural adjustments that would benefit the mental health of a lot of people.

That cat is out of the bag. Are we going to return to putting skirts on table legs, high necklines and women's clothes that reach to the floor, to Victorian mores (at least as they were among 'polite' society, in the open)?

We've been assured by the shrinks that THAT created all sorts of problems, now we're going to be told it was the other way?

There is a happy medium, a standard of behaviour which we can find acceptable, which falls far short of the bar set by those who take a well stated and polite compliment and run to HR screaming of sexual harassment, where as a society we can accommodate the behaviour of high and low without resorting to the Burkha and honor killings.

How about we simply ask people to behave, say early '60s standards?

Not sure how that will work with a smartphone 'tinder' culture swiping left and right looking for hookups, or the blatant promiscuity all over the teevee, but if you want to establish new standards of how to behave respectfully toward one another, I'd suggest you begin with the entertainment industry. Not just in how they treat the hired help, but the stuff they put out which establishes the conceptualizations of 'normal' behaviour in many who watch that dreck. As the expectations enshrined in sitcoms and drama become less, so has our behaviour toward one another. THat's something that goes far beyond whistles and catcalls.

[mirraflake]

One is voluntary and the other is not, but they're both objectification of women. Guys really are so incredibly arrogant sometimes. They think they understand the female perspective better than females do. I think all humans do and should objectify each other some; that's natural, but there's definitely an imbalance with how much and how often women are objectified, and anybody that doesn't see why that might hurt them is pretty insensitive.

Regarding insecurity I think a very large number of guys are deeply emotionally insecure because our society doesn't really encourage men to develop emotionally or seek emotional support when they're struggling. "Be a man; feelings are for women." No, feelings are for humans. I think the mental health of men would improve dramatically in this country if more of them were secure enough to break down those emotional barriers.

Your comments  are Third Wave Feminism 101

Oh and women are the ones objectifying themselves.  Women love attention.-they thrive on attention.

EX:  Olympic mens vollyball =  long t's and long shorts almost down to their knees. Women vollyball= skimpiest butt floss bikini they can find.

Stop blaming men for objectifying women.

@Dexter

[mirraflake]

Yeah, because women are more worried about things like personality due to being more developed emotionally typically, while guys will often times chase after anything that looks good physically.

Laughing myself silly.    I've worked and partied around enough women over the years to know that male attractivness comes first.  If you are unnatractive you don't stand a chance, no matter what your personality is.

Even more so today when young women are making more money than their male counterparts, have their own careers etc. Young women today are exceedingly picky.

@Dexter