Exclusive — House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy: ‘No Longer Just Republicans Versus Democrats; It’s

[Sanguine]

I meant public support in Europe. They are mostly happy with how they do things. I'm not really sure what public support looks like in the states.

My cousins aren't so happy with it.  But, they're also afraid of being responsible for themselves.  So....

[Formerly Once-Ler]

https://www.denverpost.com/2016/11/08/coloradocare-amendment-69-election-results/

@LMAO Thank you.

[LMAO]

Here's an article that gets the the heart of the reality facing  single payer in America

"In other words, America is struggling to pay for "Medicare for Some" -- much less "Medicare for All." As pro-single-payer candidates like Ocasio-Cortez will soon discover, no amount of enthusiasm for single-payer can overcome basic math."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2018/07/09/choking-on-the-cost-of-medicare-for-all/#53ebf37956f3

[LMAO]

Those of us who oppose a  European Style healthcare system don't oppose it because we are selfish or want to see people suffer.

We just simply are making the case that the math doesn't add up for it and you cannot defeat math or economics just because you strongly support something

The massive deficits that would result would be making us long for the days of when our deficits were only in the trillions

[Dexter]

Those of us who oppose a  European Style healthcare system don't oppose it because we are selfish or want to see people suffer.

We just simply are making the case that the math doesn't add up for it and you cannot defeat math or economics just because you strongly support something

The massive deficits that would result would be making us long for the days of when our deficits were only in the trillions

I simply don't believe that the United States in incapable of doing what western Europe has done because of financial reasons. There are about 400 million people in western Europe. If they can figure it out over there we could figure it out over here. Will we? Should we? Those are different conversations, but can we? Yes, we absolutely can, and nothing will convince me otherwise because we are wealthy, innovative and Europe has already pulled it off. They are not better or smarter than us. They are not capable of things that we are not. Saying we're not capable of pulling it off is a serious underestimation of American ingenuity.

[berdie]

I simply don't believe that the United States in incapable of doing what western Europe has done because of financial reasons. There are about 400 million people in western Europe. If they can figure it out over there we could figure it out over here. Will we? Should we? Those are different conversations, but can we? Yes, we absolutely can, and nothing will convince me otherwise because we are wealthy, innovative and Europe has already pulled it off. They are not better or smarter than us. They are not capable of things that we are not. Saying we're not capable of pulling it off is a serious underestimation of American ingenuity.

Sorry that I must disagree @Dexter . I don't see that Europe has "pulled it off" at all. Ask some people in those countries how it is working out for them. And ask what their tax rate is.  People in the US are taken care of if they are poor. All of us others...we take care of ourselves.

[Dexter]

Sorry that I must disagree @Dexter . I don't see that Europe has "pulled it off" at all. Ask some people in those countries how it is working out for them. And ask what their tax rate is.  People in the US are taken care of if they are poor. All of us others...we take care of ourselves.

https://www.imtj.com/news/eu-citizens-satisfaction-quality-healthcare/

Overall, Europeans are happy with the quality of their healthcare, although with big differences between countries. 70% are satisfied with the overall quality of the healthcare in their home country.

almost all in Belgium (97%), Austria (96%), Malta and Finland (both 94%) say that the overall healthcare quality in their country is good

It's not perfect but the majority of people in European countries are happy with universal healthcare. In some places they are extremely happy with it.


Compared to this...

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/02/29/468244777/many-dislike-health-care-system-but-are-pleased-with-their-own-care

a poll conducted by NPR, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health shows that only one-third of Americans say the health care they receive is "excellent." Even fewer people are impressed with the system as a whole.

[berdie]

https://www.imtj.com/news/eu-citizens-satisfaction-quality-healthcare/


It's not perfect but the majority of people in European countries are happy with universal healthcare. In some places they are extremely happy with it.


Compared to this...

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/02/29/468244777/many-dislike-health-care-system-but-are-pleased-with-their-own-care

Hmmm...I think you read the links (as did I) but left out some salient points.  But, hey...what do I know? You also didn't address TAXES.

[Dexter]

Hmmm...I think you read the links (as did I) but left out some salient points.  But, hey...what do I know?

Like I said, it's not perfect, but I think two reasonable people can admit that our system has some issues as well. It's impossible for humans to create perfection. I think it's very telling that some of those countries have more than 95% approval for their healthcare system, though.

TAXES

How much do you and your family pay for health insurance? A lot of people pay quite a lot for full coverage.


IF

the amount your taxes went up was less than the amount you saved by not having to pay health insurance, might you consider it?

[LMAO]

and nothing will convince me otherwise

I think I found the problem in this statement

Medicare for All is estimated to cost 30 trillion, with a "T" over the next ten years. If history is any guide, that cost would end up being higher than the original estimate. Medicare is expected to be insolvent by around 2026 0r 2029.  We currently are 21 trillion indebt and that will continue to rise even in good economic times. Both Medicare and SS account for most of the federal spending and that's expected to rise. Look what happened to countries like Greece, Spain, ect ect when debt levels got too high

Can't be stated enough....you can't defeat math

[berdie]

Like I said, it's not perfect, but I think two reasonable people can admit that our system has some issues as well. It's impossible for humans to create perfection. I think it's very telling that some of those countries have more than 95% approval for their healthcare system, though.


How much do you and your family pay for health insurance? A lot of people pay quite a lot for full coverage.


IF


the amount your taxes went up was less than the amount you saved by not having to pay health insurance, might you consider it?

No I would not.

The countries in Europe that you speak of don't have a point of reference. And I would have to talk to people in those countries to actually see what their experiences have been.  Sorry...but I am somewhat of a cynic.

The countries you speak of have smaller populations than the US.

Of course our health care has it's problems. But it is still the best in the world. If that were not true, why would people come here to be treated. I have yet to see a story where an American went to Sweden for treatment.

Yes...there are overseas hospitals that can provide surgery at cheaper prices. But would I go there...no.

 

[Dexter]

Can't be stated enough....you can't defeat math

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care

You expect me to believe that in every first world country on Earth EXCEPT the United States it is logistically possible to make universal healthcare work? The same United States that has put people on the moon and robots on Mars can't figure out how to do what everybody else in the world is doing? I find that to be preposterous. If their way is terrible and impossible then why is everybody doing it that way? When it comes to things that don't add up I want to start there. I do not believe that it's possible everywhere but here because of financial reasons.

[Dexter]

Of course our health care has it's problems. But it is still the best in the world. If that were not true, why would people come here to be treated. I have yet to see a story where an American went to Sweden for treatment.

Yes...there are overseas hospitals that can provide surgery at cheaper prices. But would I go there...no.

I'm not a millionaire that can fly all over the world for the most optimal treatment available, so that's a nonissue for me. If you're rich there is no better healthcare than in the United States. If you're an average Joe however, you don't have access to that even if you live in the United States. For average people universal heath care can work great.

[berdie]

I'm not a millionaire that can fly all over the world for the most optimal treatment available, so that's a nonissue for me. If you're rich there is no better healthcare than in the United States. If you're an average Joe however, you don't have access to that even if you live in the United States. For average people universal heath care can work great.

I'm not rich by any means.  But anytime I have needed healthcare...I have never been turned down.  And it was always excellent care. And no...I didn't always have insurance. Sometimes I had to pay it off.  But I was never turned away.

[Dexter]

I'm not rich by any means.  But anytime I have needed healthcare...I have never been turned down.  And it was always excellent care. And no...I didn't always have insurance. Sometimes I had to pay it off.  But I was never turned away.

If quality and availability of care was really that bad then they wouldn't be largely happy with what they've got over there. If you're not rich you're not getting that world class healthcare that is often referred to. You can still get good care, but you can get that in Europe too. I met a lot of Swedes when I went to visit my fiance's family. I know it's anecdotal, but they are well off people that LOVE Sweden. They spoke very well of their healthcare.

[LMAO]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care

You expect me to believe that in every first world country on Earth EXCEPT the United States it is logistically possible to make universal healthcare work? The same United States that has put people on moon and robots on Mars can't figure out how to do what everybody else in the world is doing? I find that to be preposterous. If their way is terrible and impossible then why is everybody doing it that way? When it comes to things that don't add up I want to start there. I do not believe that it's possible everywhere but here because of financial reasons.

I actually don't expect you to believe anything

I'm just telling you the costs would be prohibitive. Medicare for All is estimated to cost 32 to 35 trillion over the next decade. Look it up if you doubt me. There's a reason why states have tried but could not implement a single payer healthcare system in their own states and that's because of costs.

Many of those countries also have private insurance. In fact,many  Medicare recipients, which is a single payer healthcare program, also have supplemental private insurance.

I don't doubt we could. The question is should we. We defeated the Axis powers in WW2 but it required our debt to gdp ratio to go over 100% in four years. Cuts in programs are more likely our future verses a massive new entitlement

[Dexter]

I don't doubt we could. The question is should we.

If you recognize that it's within the realm of possibility then we've made all of the progress I hoped to make. I understand that most of you don't think we should even though we can. I just don't see how the greatest country on Earth can't do what Europe is doing, and possibly even better. I think through intelligence and ingenuity we could figure out how to make something affordable that is available to everybody.


Also, I might get backlash for this, but I want to say that I really think healthcare is becoming a losing issue for the Republicans, and it's only going to get worse. Maybe I'm wrong.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

No I would not.

The countries in Europe that you speak of don't have a point of reference. And I would have to talk to people in those countries to actually see what their experiences have been.  Sorry...but I am somewhat of a cynic.

The countries you speak of have smaller populations than the US.

Of course our health care has it's problems. But it is still the best in the world. If that were not true, why would people come here to be treated. I have yet to see a story where an American went to Sweden for treatment.

Yes...there are overseas hospitals that can provide surgery at cheaper prices. But would I go there...no.

I went to high school with this kid.  After we graduated, his dad went to Sweden for "treatment".

Twenty years later I'm walking through the dog park listening to an audiobook.  I must have looked like a nut bursting into laughter for no reason when I realized who they were talking about.  I had forgotten all about him (yes, him, I don't care what you cut off, you got a Y you're a dude).

[Dexter]

Some of the other countries that don't have some form of national healthcare...

Zimbabwe

Turkmenistan

Tajikistan

Syrian Arab Republic

Suriname

Sudan

Somalia

Sierra Leone

Nigeria

Mozambique

Liberia

Lebanon

Kenya

Jordan

Iraq

Ethiopia - Wait, no, my mistake; Ethiopia has a national healthcare system.

Dominican Republic

Chad

Cambodia

Afghanistan

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

If you recognize that it's within the realm of possibility then we've made all of the progress I hoped to make. I understand that most of you don't think we should even though we can. I just don't see how the greatest country on Earth can't do what Europe is doing, and possibly even better. I think through intelligence and ingenuity we could figure out how to make something affordable that is available to everybody.


Also, I might get backlash for this, but I want to say that I really think healthcare is becoming a losing issue for the Republicans, and it's only going to get worse. Maybe I'm wrong.

We used to have health care that was affordable and available to everyone.  Before my time, but I'm sure some here remember it.  Then the lawyers got involved like in Europe.

Government doesn't make things affordable, it adds to the cost.  Even if it could (and wanted to) do as good a job as a free market, you'd still have the additional government overhead to add to the cost.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Some of the other countries that don't have some form of national healthcare...

Zimbabwe

Turkmenistan

Tajikistan

Syrian Arab Republic

Suriname

Sudan

Somalia

Sierra Leone

Nigeria

Mozambique

Liberia

Lebanon

Kenya

Jordan

Iraq

Ethiopia - Wait, no, my mistake; Ethiopia has a national healthcare system.

Dominican Republic

Chad

Cambodia

Afghanistan

We have a national healthcare system.  It's called the VA.

[Dexter]

We have a national healthcare system.  It's called the VA.

You may scoff at the efficiency of our VA, but I bet most of you wouldn't remove it. I believe that through transparency and the right safeguards it's possible to force the government to do some things that are actually useful. I don't believe it's impossible to do well, especially since a lot of countries do do it well. We may have the best top end care, but looking at the big picture we are behind Europe when it comes to health, and I really believe a big part of that is because people get more preventative care when cost is not an issue. That also saves money. Have you ever heard the saying "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?"

[Dexter]

We used to have health care that was affordable and available to everyone.  Before my time, but I'm sure some here remember it.  Then the lawyers got involved like in Europe.

Government doesn't make things affordable, it adds to the cost.  Even if it could (and wanted to) do as good a job as a free market, you'd still have the additional government overhead to add to the cost.

Can we ever get back to how it was? If not I'd rather look forward and find cost solutions that will work in 2018. I know it's possible.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

You may scoff at the efficiency of our VA, but I bet most of you wouldn't remove it. I believe that through transparency and the right safeguards it's possible to force the government to do some things that are actually useful. I don't believe it's impossible to do well, especially since a lot of countries do do it well. We may have the best top end care, but looking at the big picture we are behind Europe when it comes to health, and I really believe a big part of that is because people get more preventative care when cost is not an issue. That also saves money. Have you ever heard the saying "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?"

Hell yes I scoff.  Mom worked there for over 30 years, and many relatives have used it for care.  I'd replace it with a system where veterans could see the doctor of their choice at a private facility in an instant.  I am embarrassed and horrified at the way we treat those who served.

Our biggest health issues come from our wealth, primarily that we're fat.

I've heard the saying.  I've heard the theories, including during my graduate Health Economics class.  But I've also read the actual studies that are showing that the cost of "free" preventative care leads to an overall increase in the cost of health care.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Can we ever get back to how it was? If not I'd rather look forward and find cost solutions that will work in 2018. I know it's possible.

Yes.  All we need is to elect Republicans to majorities in the House and Senate and to the Presidency.