Exclusive — House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy: ‘No Longer Just Republicans Versus Democrats; It’s

[Sanguine]

No they are not.

You obviously never had children of your own.

A human's nature all by itself is totally and completely selfish and self-absorbed.  Morals and outgoing concern have to be taught, and even then the pull of the flesh and this world reverts everyone to their base natures when not bridled and constrained by morality and religion.

What Invar said. 

[Dexter]

No they are not.

People are born ignorant, but not bad. Have you never held a baby and seen the innocent love in its eyes? People need to learn how to treat each other, but they're not born bad.

You obviously never had children of your own.

I have a 6 year old and he is the reason I draw breathe. He's why I want to do whatever I can to make the world we live in as beautiful as possible.

A human's nature all by itself is totally and completely selfish and self-absorbed.  Morals and outgoing concern have to be taught, and even then the pull of the flesh and this world reverts everyone to their base natures when not bridled and constrained by morality and religion.

I think it's life that beats people down and turns them sour. People have to be taught how to treat each other, but I truly believe that people are born good with a desire to do good. Reality is too heartbreaking for that to always be possible, at least for now.

[Sanguine]

I think people are born good, and that a cruel and unforgiving world makes them mistrustful and selfish. If the world we all grew up in wasn't so cruel and unforgiving maybe so many people wouldn't lose their light along the way.

So, in that universe, if people were just left alone they would do the right things and not need any constraining forces (laws, police, etc.) to keep them from harming their fellow humans?

[Dexter]

So, in that universe, if people were just left alone they would do the right things and not need any constraining forces (laws, police, etc.) to keep them from harming their fellow humans?

In that universe a lot of people grow up sour because of the world they live in, making laws and violence for the sake of order an unfortunate necessity. Sometime in the future is it possible for humans to transcend violence and suffering? Maybe. Even if it's not possible I think we should get as close as we can, and I think education plays a key role in that.

[LMAO]

So, how did the relative answer?

She didn’t

[Sanguine]

In that universe a lot of people grow up sour because of the world they live in, making laws and violence for the sake of order an unfortunate necessity. Sometime in the future is it possible for humans to transcend violence and suffering? Maybe. Even if it's not possible I think we should get as close as we can, and I think education plays a key role in that.

You didn't answer my question - if people were just left alone they would do the right things and not need any constraining forces (laws, police, etc.) to keep them from harming their fellow humans?

[Sanguine]

She didn’t

That question would be very hard to answer.

[Dexter]

You didn't answer my question - if people were just left alone they would do the right things and not need any constraining forces (laws, police, etc.) to keep them from harming their fellow humans?

People need to be taught how to recognize the difference between good and bad so they can make good choices. No, what you've asked is not possible, because some guidance is necessary. That doesn't mean they were born bad in my opinion. It just means they were born without a frame of reference and need guidance. Good, bad, up, down are all concepts that didn't exist before birth. And you know what, maybe some rare people are born bad; I guess that's possible. There is undeniably evil in the universe. I still believe and always will believe that the true nature of humanity, underneath all of the layers and the bullshit. is benevolence and selflessness.

[LMAO]

That question would be very hard to answer.

Back in the early days of proposing HillaryCare in the 1990s, it did enjoy majority public support. However, once all the arguments were made, pro and con, support for it plummeted and the Democrats ended up losing the House

 I have seen polls where a majority support the idea of Medicare for All.    But when the actual bill gets out there in the realm of public debate, I’m confident that support for it will rapidly erode

Supporting a concept and actually paying for the concept are two different things

[LMAO]

People need to be taught how to recognize the difference between good and bad so they can make good choices. No, what you've asked is not possible, because some guidance is necessary. That doesn't mean they were born bad in my opinion. It just means they were born without a frame of reference and need guidance. Good, bad, up, down are all concepts that didn't exist before birth. And you know what, maybe some rare people are born bad; I guess that's possible. There is undeniably evil in the universe. I still believe and always will believe that the true nature of humanity, underneath all of the layers and the bullshit. is benevolence and selflessness.

We’re not talking necessarily about good people versus evil people. Even the best people ultimately seek their own self interest first

[INVAR]

Would you, your family and people you know not benefit from not paying health insurance and having unlimited access to doctors without increased cost?

There is no such thing as 'free'.  Free shit comes at a cost, from someone else - or subservience and dependency to the entity that provides.

It's meddlesome tyranny.

Are there no young people in your life that would really benefit from not going into debt for college?

Had 3 that went to college.  We paid for some of it, the rest they took out in student loans. 

But the question is silly.  You might as well ask, wouldn't people in your life benefit from not going into debt to have a car or own a house?  Why stop at college?  How about housing food and clothing being handed to you "free of charge" as well?

Life as a slave does not suit some of of us who value liberty, even though a majority are perfectly fine with being in chains.

You shouldn't be forced to do anything, but some taxes are necessary to run a nation.

Providing for the minimum requirement for law, order and public safety does not include putting guns to our heads and forcing us to subside your health care or education costs.

You want those things?  YOU PAY FOR THEM YOURSELF instead of forcing the rest of us to pay for them.  If you cannot afford it - SAVE UP or borrow it or make payment arrangements like the rest of us Providers are required to do.

Some more taxes could make the nation you live in the undisputed best in more than just its killing capability.

No, WRONG.  It will have the exact opposite effect you think it will.  More taxes is simply legalized theft and robbery used as a method of redistribution of wealth to subsidize people for votes into political subserviency.

I want our country to be the envy of the world and it really just isn't anymore.

Because we are already overtaxed to pay for welfare for a people who no longer want opportunity - but provision.

I think giving our bright young minds as much opportunity as possible is our we get back to that.

Horseshit.  We've been subsidizing and pushing generations into college for decades - and they are grown into the most idiotic, ignorant and stupid people on the planet who think they are owed a living, don't know shit except pop culture but feel good about themselves.   Despite all the self-esteem rubbed into their brains at a young age, they break into fits or rage or helplessness the moment someone says something contrary to what they think or who tells them 'no'.

[Dexter]

We’re not talking necessarily about good people versus evil people. Even the best people ultimately seek their own self interest first

I don't think some of these proposals for helping young Americans would be as big of a hit as people make it out to be. I personally would save a shitload of money if I didn't have to pay for health insurance. I doubt my taxes would go up enough to make it not worth it for me. I know that's true for some of you as well.

I think there are middle grounds, friend. We shouldn't give everybody everything, but we shouldn't be so self serving either in my opinion. I believe in the Golden Mean.

[Sanguine]

People need to be taught how to recognize the difference between good and bad so they can make good choices. No, what you've asked is not possible, because some guidance is necessary. That doesn't mean they were born bad in my opinion. It just means they were born without a frame of reference and need guidance. Good, bad, up, down are all concepts that didn't exist before birth. And you know what, maybe some rare people are born bad; I guess that's possible. There is undeniably evil in the universe. I still believe and always will believe that the true nature of humanity, underneath all of the layers and the bullshit. is benevolence and selflessness.

Of course "some guidance is necessary" because people are not born "good".  They are born with a desire for life (hence the cries at night for milk) and in this universe that translates into competition.  When you have more than one child you learn very quickly that being "fair" is extremely important to them.  Don't give my brother more than me (or more accurately, don't give me less than my brother), because I guarantee you I will throw the biggest hissy fit you've ever seen.  If left unguided this competition can develop into sociopathic tendencies, and regularly does.  Even when guided to the best of the parents' abilities, the urge to compete is still there, and if properly guided is what makes us successful in life. 

[LMAO]

I don't think some of these proposals for helping young Americans would be as big of a hit as people make it out to be. I personally would save a shitload of money if I didn't have to pay for health insurance. I doubt my taxes would go up enough to make it not worth it for me. I know that's true for some of you as well.

I think there are middle grounds, friend. We shouldn't give everybody everything, but we shouldn't be so self serving either in my opinion. I believe in the Golden Mean.

There’s a lot of “I believe” I thinks” “I doubts” ect in your responses. What can’t be disputed or doubted is we are on an unsustainable spending path driven by entitlement spending. The last thing Americans can afford is another entitlement program. We can’t even pay for the ones we have

[Dexter]

There is no such thing as 'free'.  Free shit comes at a cost, from someone else - or subservience and dependency to the entity that provides.

It's meddlesome tyranny.

I didn't say it would be free. I've been suggesting that most everyday people, including people here, would probably see their financial situation improve if they didn't have to worry about paying for health insurance every month. It seems unlikely that your taxes would go up more than they amount you saved on insurance.

Had 3 that went to college.  We paid for some of it, the rest they took out in student loans. 

But the question is silly.  You might as well ask, wouldn't people in your life benefit from not going into debt to have a car or own a house?  Why stop at college?  How about housing food and clothing being handed to you "free of charge" as well?

I think we should do as much as possible to give young people a head start without bankrupting ourselves. Going into debt and struggling isn't a necessary part of learning to be responsible in my opinion. They'd be a lot better off if they could have that edge. And maybe you're thinking it's not fair. You didn't get that shit. You had to work hard. You're absolutely right, but I see myself as working hard so my children don't have to work so hard. I thought that's what this was all about. When I'm old I want to see humanity improved. I want to see young people having access to things I could only have dreamed of.

Life as a slave does not suit some of of us who value liberty, even though a majority are perfectly fine with being in chains.

This brings me back to the Golden Mean. It is possible and preferable to exist between two extremes.

Providing for the minimum requirement for law, order and public safety does not include putting guns to our heads and forcing us to subside your health care or education costs.

You're right that nowhere in the fine print does it say you should have to contribute to things like that.

You want those things?  YOU PAY FOR THEM YOURSELF instead of forcing the rest of us to pay for them.  If you cannot afford it - SAVE UP or borrow it or make payment arrangements like the rest of us Providers are required to do.

I paid for my college. I don't want these things for myself; I want them for America. I understand the reasoning behind the things you're saying to me. Your argument is logical and works within your world view; that's fine. I see things differently and have different priorities. When it comes to elevating all people I want to do as much as is possible.

[Dexter]

Of course "some guidance is necessary" because people are not born "good".  They are born with a desire for life (hence the cries at night for milk) and in this universe that translates into competition.  When you have more than one child you learn very quickly that being "fair" is extremely important to them.  Don't give my brother more than me (or more accurately, don't give me less than my brother), because I guarantee you I will throw the biggest hissy fit you've ever seen.  If left unguided this competition can develop into sociopathic tendencies, and regularly does.  Even when guided to the best of the parents' abilities, the urge to compete is still there, and if properly guided is what makes us successful in life.

I think the destiny of humanity is to be a force for good. I have to believe that. We can do good, humanitarian things without destroying competition in life. Again, the Golden Mean. College liberals would take it way, WAY too far. You already knew that. Maybe there is something in between.

[Sanguine]

We can do good, humanitarian things without destroying competition in life. Again, the Golden Mean. College liberals would take it way, WAY too far. You already knew that. Maybe there is something in between.

You've very neatly sidestepped your original contention, that people are born good and warped by life.  That is the heart of the disagreement between leftist utopianism and rightist absolutism. 

[Dexter]

You've very neatly sidestepped your original contention, that people are born good and warped by life.

Maybe I'll amend my opinion and say I believe most people are born with a tendency towards good. They have to learn how to actually perform that good, but they are taught to perform that good because humanity by nature is good, and those are the qualities we value most. I believe young people are pure, and that the world poisons and perverts them.

disagreement between leftist utopianism and rightist absolutism.

I see two extreme ideas clashing together and can't stop feeling that something in between is possible and would be good.

In philosophy, especially that of Aristotle, the golden mean is the desirable middle between two extremes, one of excess and the other of deficiency. For example, in the Aristotelian view, courage is a virtue, but if taken to excess would manifest as recklessness, and, in deficiency, cowardice.

[Dexter]

There’s a lot of “I believe” I thinks” “I doubts” ect in your responses. What can’t be disputed or doubted is we are on an unsustainable spending path driven by entitlement spending. The last thing Americans can afford is another entitlement program. We can’t even pay for the ones we have

America is a mess and there is no disputing that. What I'm talking about would only be possible with a large recalibration. Any thinking person can see how inefficiently things are done. Is that really the best we can ever make government do? I wonder.

[Sanguine]

Maybe I'll amend my opinion and say I believe most people are born with a tendency towards good. They have to learn how to actually perform that good, but they are taught to perform that good because humanity by nature is good, and those are the qualities we value most. I believe young people are pure, and that the world poisons and perverts them.

Better.  We're getting closer to reality.

I see two extreme ideas clashing together and can't stop feeling that something in between is possible and would be good.

There is a third option.  But, we have to identify what we are working with (as in people), what materials we have to use before we can come up with a good solution.  And, I think the Founding Fathers did come up with that.  Could just be that WE are the third option.

The federal government should not do anything beyond the bounds of what the citizens of this nation have given them to do.  (For now, I'll ignore that we have badly abused and violated our constitution) and state and local governments can be formed as the residents of those areas want them to be formed.  If Portland, Oregon wants to fund homeless people they can do so.  If San Juan, Texas does not want to do so, they don't.  If Indiana wants to fund college educations for long-term Indianians, they can do so.  If the other 49 states do not want to do that, they don't.

[Cyber Liberty]

Many of us believe man is, by nature, "fallen" and must learn to rise above it.  Leftists see no such distinction and think people are born "good," therefore there is nothing to rise above.

[Dexter]

Better.  We're getting closer to reality.

There is a third option.  But, we have to identify what we are working with (as in people), what materials we have to use before we can come up with a good solution.  And, I think the Founding Fathers did come up with that.  Could just be that WE are the third option.

The federal government should not do anything beyond the bounds of what the citizens of this nation have given them to do.  (For now, I'll ignore that we have badly abused and violated our constitution) and state and local governments can be formed as the residents of those areas want them to be formed.  If Portland, Oregon wants to fund homeless people they can do so.  If San Juan, Texas does not want to do so, they don't.  If Indiana wants to fund college educations for long-term Indianians, they can do so.  If the other 49 states do not want to do that, they don't.

If our military budget wasn't so obscenely overinflated people would probably have a lot more wiggle room to work with after you give the states more autonomy. Don't tell me it's not overinflated either. I was in the Army and I've seen some of the insanity first hand. I was more than once assigned with a bunch of other guys to go spend a ton of money needlessly so we didn't have extra cash at the end of the company's budget cycle. I know that happens all throughout the military too. That's not even to mention the money we waste on intervening in conflicts we don't need to intervene in, or the countless billions of dollars worth of military hardware that sits stateside unused because congress constantly approves spending for hardware the military doesn't want or need.

[Dexter]

Many of us believe man is, by nature, "fallen" and must learn to rise above it.  Leftists see no such distinction and think people are born "good," therefore there is nothing to rise above.

How could God in all of his perfection have created creatures in his image that start out bad, unworthy etc? I don't believe that.

[INVAR]

America is a mess and there is no disputing that. What I'm talking about would only be possible with a large recalibration.

Exactly the point Obama made with his claim of 'Fundamental Transformation' of America.

We do not need a 'recalibration'.  We need a restoration.

I didn't say it would be free. I've been suggesting that most everyday people, including people here, would probably see their financial situation improve if they didn't have to worry about paying for health insurance every month. It seems unlikely that your taxes would go up more than they amount you saved on insurance.

You cannot possibly be that woefully ignorant of reality.  SOMEONE has to pay for medical care.  Your advisement is to have government provide it via taxation.  Did you somehow MISS how the government abused, mishandled, stole and robbed SoSec????  You really want to hand government money to redistribute to "provide" healthcare benefits without pocketing that cash and not result in the mindless unfeeling Death Panel Bureaucracy that Single Payer and Government-mandated insurance causes by default????

I think we should do as much as possible to give young people a head start without bankrupting ourselves.

That is YOUR JOB as a parent for YOUR FAMILY.  To empower government to force ME to subside YOUR FAMILY is tyranny and robbery.

Going into debt and struggling isn't a necessary part of learning to be responsible in my opinion.

That opinions sucks balls.  Going into debt and struggling ought to teach one how not to live beyond their means and to make do with what they have, and to learn to be industrious, ambitious and clever in terms of making provision for themselves.   You do not appreciate or respect what you have not worked for yourself.  You abuse it and expect it to be handed to you by the sweat and blood of others.

You're absolutely right, but I see myself as working hard so my children don't have to work so hard.

Then you consign your son to slavery and dependency his whole life if you do not teach him to work hard for what he wants and needs.  Al you will be teaching him is how to be a good slave of the state.

When it comes to elevating all people I want to do as much as is possible.

Then do so with your own money, time, industry and service.  Maintaining opportunity is the only thing we should ever empower government to do.

Empowering government or society to do anything else simply becomes Collectivist Tyranny of one sort or another.

[Dexter]

Exactly the point Obama made with his claim of 'Fundamental Transformation' of America.

We do not need a 'recalibration'.  We need a restoration.

You cannot possibly be that woefully ignorant of reality.  SOMEONE has to pay for medical care.  Your advisement is to have government provide it via taxation.  Did you somehow MISS how the government abused, mishandled, stole and robbed SoSec????  You really want to hand government money to redistribute to "provide" healthcare benefits without pocketing that cash and not result in the mindless unfeeling Death Panel Bureaucracy that Single Payer and Government-mandated insurance causes by default????

That is YOUR JOB as a parent for YOUR FAMILY.  To empower government to force ME to subside YOUR FAMILY is tyranny and robbery.

That opinions sucks balls.  Going into debt and struggling ought to teach one how not to live beyond their means and to make do with what they have, and to learn to be industrious, ambitious and clever in terms of making provision for themselves.   You do not appreciate or respect what you have not worked for yourself.  You abuse it and expect it to be handed to you by the sweat and blood of others.

Then you consign your son to slavery and dependency his whole life if you do not teach him to work hard for what he wants and needs.  Al you will be teaching him is how to be a good slave of the state.

Then do so with your own money, time, industry and service.  Maintaining opportunity is the only thing we should ever empower government to do.

Empowering government or society to do anything else simply becomes Collectivist Tyranny of one sort or another.

So how much of your money is it acceptable for the government to take? The military, highways and a bunch of other things you probably enjoy are pretty expensive. To have a society there has to be a certain amount of contribution from each individual to that society, right? A lot of you want a wall. Is it tyranny to make people that don't want one pay for it through taxes as well?