Trump: 'Robert E. Lee was a great general'

[Slide Rule]

Grant by Ron Chernow.

It is an excellent read.
Highly recommended.




https://www.amazon.com/Grant-Ron-Chernow/dp/159420487X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1539432579&sr=8-1&keywords=grant+chernow&dpID=51QjQQuYcmL&preST=_SY344_BO1,204,203,200_QL70_&dpSrc=srch


:)

[catfish1957]

You lost almost 150 years ago.  get over it.

@Once-Ler

Are you that dense?  My contention is that there are factions (apparently including you) who wish nothing more than to erase an integral part of our history.  Included in that history is much bravery and honor on both sides of the battlefield.

I also see your side remains complicit in defending the left racist factions who are digging up Confederate generals and destroying confederate statues.  Wonder if you are going to be the same way when other institutions that you might hold near and dear get destroyed by the leftist zealots.   Nice job bubba.

[jpsb]

Lee  without  Stonewall Jackson was a so so General. With Jackson he was a great General.

[edpc]

Far as I'm concerned Lee was a traitor.

I used to think so, but once you get out of elementary school history and read more in depth about the man, your perspective changes.  What is now Arlington National Cemetery was his home.  Lee was literally living on the front lines, once war was declared.  He was forced into a difficult and reluctant choice.

[catfish1957]

Far as I'm concerned Lee was a traitor.

@kevindavis

So was George Washington according to George III.  The word traitor is a highly subjective term.

And let me guess......   Lee was a traitor, while W.T. Sherman was a glorious hero.   Geeeeeeez the revisionist here crack me up.

[Bigun]

@Bigun
I see you lashing out impotently, but I don't have a clue what what you're talking about.

@Once-Ler

Everyone, especially me, knows already that you don't have a clue!  No need for you to advertise that further.

[Bigun]

Lee was a great general, but he was on the ropes a couple times and McClellan didn’t press his advantage.  Consequently, the war went longer and got bloodier.

@edpc

General Lee made one great mistake from which all things flowed. He assumed that the people on the other side were as honorable as himself. He was very wrong about that.

Had Lee been half as unprincipled as those that eventually led the union forces to "victory" (Grant and Sherman) the war would have been over, with the Confederacy victorious, before the end of 1861.

[kevindavis007]

@kevindavis

So was George Washington according to George III.  The word traitor is a highly subjective term.

And let me guess......   Lee was a traitor, while W.T. Sherman was a glorious hero.   Geeeeeeez the revisionist here crack me up.

@catfish1957


To me Sherman was a hero..  I do have some southern roots.

[catfish1957]

Lee  without  Stonewall Jackson was a so so General. With Jackson he was a great General.

Minus Gettysburg, most military historians highly disagree.  Think about it, with far inferior forces and firepower, Lee was not only able to defend the south, but get a 100 miles north inside Yankee territory.  If it wasn't for the folly of J.E.B. Stuart, Lee also would have a calvary reconaissance that may have drastically changed the outcome of early July 1863.  I agree that SJ was a great general, but if the south had the same military leadership as the north, this thing wouldn't have made it to 1862.

[catfish1957]

@catfish1957


To me Sherman was a hero.. I do have some southern roots.

@kevindavis

 

Have you read, studied, or researched the WBTS since high school?

[edpc]

@edpc

General Lee made one great mistake from which all things flowed. He assumed that the people on the other side were as honorable as himself. He was very wrong about that.

Had Lee been half as unprincipled as those that eventually led the union forces to "victory" (Grant and Sherman) the war would have been over, with the Confederacy victorious, before the end of 1861.

Possibly.  We have the luxury of hindsight to analyze and refight battles.  As far as principles go, it’s war.  It should be complete, total, utter destruction of the opposition.  It should be a last resort, with terrible, long lasting consequences.  Perhaps then, it’ll be more rare than these endless low to mid level conflicts we’ve gotten way too comfortable with, since 1945.

[catfish1957]

Possibly.  We have the luxury of hindsight to analyze and refight battles.  As far as principles go, it’s war.  It should be complete, total, utter destruction of the opposition.  It should be a last resort, with terrible, long lasting consequences.  Perhaps then, it’ll be more rare than these endless low to mid level conflicts we’ve gotten way too comfortable with, since 1945.

Until Shiloh and somewhat even to Antietam, it is mind boggling that much of the country saw this thing as a sporting event, and there are several documented events of civilians having picnics on the high ground near battles.  Tales of bravery, chivalry, and honor soon turned to death, despair, and misery.   The South's leaders terribly underestimated what the impact would be, and the south paid for it for decades.

This is the most tragic event is this country's almost 250 year history.  I will venture they will be saying the same thing after a 1000.

[Suppressed]

We all lost 150 years ago you f'n idiot!  We lost the great Republic our founders gave us for a long period of time but it ain't over yet homey!  We may yet restore it!

Exactly right, @Bigun, and well stated.  Though it took 70 years to self-destruct, and there are still good elements in its mutated, bastardized version, the Framers' republic wwould be great to have today instead of the huge federal behemoth.

[XenaLee]

@edpc

General Lee made one great mistake from which all things flowed. He assumed that the people on the other side were as honorable as himself. He was very wrong about that.

Had Lee been half as unprincipled as those that eventually led the union forces to "victory" (Grant and Sherman) the war would have been over, with the Confederacy victorious, before the end of 1861.

So you're saying he broke Rule #1.....  Never underestimate your opponents.

[endicom]

Trump sure is turning this insane PC world upside down by telling the truth.

That's his purpose, to take the fight straight to them. The majority of Americans are helplessly watching a lunatic minority tear down the country while our political class fiddles by the Potomac. Trump is taking the lead in turning that around.

[Suppressed]

So you're saying he broke Rule #1.....  Never underestimate your opponents.

He overestimated their honour, and underestimated their desire for power.

[catfish1957]

@edpc

General Lee made one great mistake from which all things flowed. He assumed that the people on the other side were as honorable as himself. He was very wrong about that.

Had Lee been half as unprincipled as those that eventually led the union forces to "victory" (Grant and Sherman) the war would have been over, with the Confederacy victorious, before the end of 1861.

One thing that we can't forget though.  One reason Lee didn't use "scorched earth" tactics in PA, and MD is that there was still a pretty solid minority of Union citizens who didn't have a stomach for this war, and supported a brokered settlement.  Had Lee used WT Sherman tactics, it would have turned those against, and united the whole north against the south. 

We can't forget....   The South never had a "total victory" in mind as far as a final result, .......   Just independence

[XenaLee]

He overestimated their honour, and underestimated their desire for power.

An almost always fatal mistake.

[Suppressed]

We can't forget....   The South never had a "total victory" in mind as far as a final result, .......   Just independence

 

Yes, the North wanted subjugation, even if that meant destroying what they wanted to control.  The South just wanted to be left alone.

[catfish1957]

An almost always fatal mistake.

Yep....seems to be a common theme much through history.

[Bigun]

One thing that we can't forget though.  One reason Lee didn't use "scorched earth" tactics in PA, and MD is that there was still a pretty solid minority of Union citizens who didn't have a stomach for this war, and supported a brokered settlement.  Had Lee used WT Sherman tactics, it would have turned those against, and united the whole north against the south. 

We can't forget....   The South never had a "total victory" in mind as far as a final result, .......   Just independence

@catfish1957

Exactly correct!  Lee was defending his country not trying to conquer another one.

[Bigun]

Yes, the North wanted subjugation, even if that meant destroying what they wanted to control.  The South just wanted to be left alone.

@Suppressed

   And they had every right to expect that!

[XenaLee]

Yes, the North wanted subjugation, even if that meant destroying what they wanted to control.  The South just wanted to be left alone.

So.... has anything really changed?   If the North represents what constitutes the big-government radical left now.... and the South represents small-government conservatives and anyone else that does not want government control of everything.... it seems to have not changed all that much.  Especially considering how the Democrats are content to burn it all down in their fit of rage over having lost the 2016 election.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

@Once-Ler

Are you that dense?  My contention is that there are factions (apparently including you) who wish nothing more than to erase an integral part of our history.  Included in that history is much bravery and honor on both sides of the battlefield.

I also see your side remains complicit in defending the left racist factions who are digging up Confederate generals and destroying confederate statues.  Wonder if you are going to be the same way when other institutions that you might hold near and dear get destroyed by the leftist zealots.   Nice job bubba.

@catfish1957
To many Americans the Confederacy stands for slavery and the statues of confederate soldiers is a reminder of the worst of humanity that should not be idolized.  But I absolutely agree it should never be forgotten that the good guys won.  The only thing worse than a damn dirty rat, is a damn dirty confederate rat.  Like Lee.

[XenaLee]

@Once-Ler
To many Americans the Confederacy stands for slavery and the statues of confederate soldiers is a reminder of the worst of humanity that should not be idolized.  But I absolutely agree it should never be forgotten that the good guys won.  The only thing worse than a damn dirty rat, is a damn dirty confederate rat.  Like Lee.

Wait.  Did you just ping yourself?