Author Topic: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21  (Read 1655 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
There is chatter that Trump walked this announcement out early this afternoon and walked it back when the twitter sphere exploded in disgust.   The rumor now is that Trump is deferring this action to Congress to pass, and to Betsy Devos in the Department of Education to enact in case Congress does not come through.  Devos doing this also will give Trump cover from those in his party that are upset about it.

But it's news from TrumpBart - so - I guess they are not too happy with Trump right now either.

Quote
Trump to Buck NRA, Push to Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21

President Trump will buck the NRA with a Sunday night announcement in which he call for raising the minimum purchase age for long guns to 21.

He is expected to urge Congress to pass the “Fix NICS” bill, put forward by Sens. Chris Murphy (D-CT) and John Cornyn (R-TX), and to support the STOP School Violence Act.


I posted about this heinous bill last week here:

GOP Congress To Push New Gun Control Next Week

In that thread is a video from Congressman Massie (R- KY) that I summarize that discusses the heinous nature of the bill and what 'fixing' the NICS database will actually do to ban the ownership of firearms to anyone put in the database without recourse.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2018, 02:55:26 am »
The administration did not call for immediately increasing the minimum age for buying long guns to 21, as President Trump had previously advocated. However, it did announce that Education Secretary Betsy DeVos would chair a federal commission on school safety to study the proposal.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/11/trump-wh-expected-to-support-raising-minimum-age-to-buy-long-guns.html


The only thing dumber than this proposal is creating a commission to study it. What a waste.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Online libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,998
  • Gender: Female
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2018, 03:20:18 am »
There is definitely some conflict of minimum age in the U.S.  At the age of 18, one is considered an adult and can vote, purchase cigarettes and join the military.  However, one cannot drink until they are 21.  Now there is a proposal to up the age to which one can purchase a firearm to 21.

So...I think if one is considered an adult at age 18, it is absolutely ridiculous to stipulate that even though they are adults, they cannot drink or purchase firearms until they are 21!

Perhaps the answer is to raise the age of adulthood to 21, allowing the individual the right to vote, purchase cigarettes, join the military, drink, purchase firearms, etc., which I believe is much more logical. IMHO, 18 is too young for adulthood!  They are still teenagers!
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline LauraTXNM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,661
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history.
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2018, 03:25:05 am »
So has there actually been a "Sunday night announcement"?
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2018, 03:26:23 am »
Perhaps the answer is to raise the age of adulthood to 21, allowing the individual the right to vote, purchase cigarettes, join the military, drink, purchase firearms, etc., which I believe is much more logical. IMHO, 18 is too young for adulthood!  They are still teenagers.


There was a time when people assumed more responsibility at a younger age, because circumstances demanded it.  Somehow, they were able to cope.  Now, people say they can’t handle it and make every excuse as to why.  If you lower expectations, people will always live down to them.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2018, 03:54:18 am »
I find it amusing that they can enlist and draft 18 year-olds into the military - put a machine gun in their hands and train them how to efficiently use it on an enemy - but they cannot buy a drink or purchase a lesser weapon themselves as a civilian.

Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline LauraTXNM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,661
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history.
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2018, 04:05:47 am »
Do you all think the fact that the human brain isn't fully developed until age 25, should affect the way we think about adulthood and maturity?
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2018, 04:09:08 am »
Do you all think the fact that the human brain isn't fully developed until age 25, should affect the way we think about adulthood and maturity?

Oh I don't know.

Maybe we should ask these guys:

Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline LauraTXNM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,661
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history.
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2018, 04:11:31 am »
Oh I don't know.

Maybe we should ask these guys:



I wonder if their training helped with their assessment of risk.
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2018, 04:13:51 am »
Do you all think the fact that the human brain isn't fully developed until age 25, should affect the way we think about adulthood and maturity?


No, I think the fact so many people spend their youth not being properly prepared for adulthood is the reason for the lack of maturity.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline LauraTXNM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,661
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history.
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2018, 04:51:12 am »

No, I think the fact so many people spend their youth not being properly prepared for adulthood is the reason for the lack of maturity.

But there is clinical research proving the brain development.  I also think we're not adequately preparing kids for adulthood, because our life expectancy has grown and technology continues to change what it means to be an adult.  As does the last decade's economy, for that matter.
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,005
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2018, 07:04:54 am »
Do you all think the fact that the human brain isn't fully developed until age 25, should affect the way we think about adulthood and maturity?
Start exerciaing at an early age, and you will be well developed.

To contrast with 'modern' expectations, we were expected to help on the farm from the age when we were capable of doing something useful. As we got better, we got new duties, taught to do more complex tasks involving greater responsibility. We viewed this as a rite of passage, and amongst our peers, we gained status by being allowed to do these more complex and demanding tasks.

Our privileges were based on our demonstrated ability to be responsible and use good judgement, something which comes with practice, and is not magically conferred at a given chronological age.

At 9 I was deer huntiing, by ten I had been driving tractors on the farm for five years, could take the skiff out and go fishing. At 14 I held a commercial fishing license, and was a member of the local VFD. I went on to become a geologist, making decisions or advising those who did affecting tens of millions of dollars in projects a year. My peer group included an Navy Seal and later fire chief, and a Sergeant Major in the USMC--all of us who were taught at an early age to be responsible. Long before my 18th birthday, I was taking the boat out to the river blind and laying in decoy spreads so my friends and I could hunt ducks.

My point is that being responsible and exercising good judgement, and when situations call for it, restraint, comes with practice, and that is something that isn't being answered by waiting until the brain is fully developed to start doing, any more than athletes are developed by waiting until they are a certain age of full development to develop the skills they need to compete.

When you consider the average life expectancy of a person in the era from 1750 to 1800 was 36 years, http://www.legacy.com/life-and-death/the-liberty-era.html, someone who was 21 then was like someone who is in their 40s today. But long before that they had often used firearms for hunting and defense (from humans and animals), often were already married and parents, and commonly working their own farm by 14-16. Those "Free, white, 21, male, property owners" were the equivalent of today's thirty to forty something business owners, not the 21 year olds of today who have been, frankly, held back in their civilian development by the establishment of arbitrary age limits, yet are considered old enough to hump 100 lbs of gear and a rifle in the desert somewhere.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,535
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2018, 07:37:35 am »
Do you all think the fact that the human brain isn't fully developed until age 25, should affect the way we think about adulthood and maturity?

That is essentially the peak performance age of the human brain. It is down hills from there...

Offline LauraTXNM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,661
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history.
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2018, 07:59:39 am »
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621648/
Retiring of the pre-frontal cortex isn't complete until 25.  That's the "rational" part of the brain.

I don't know how to explain it, you all.  But it's demonstrable.

http://hrweb.mit.edu/worklife/youngadult/brain.html
Micah 6:8  "...what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

Disclaimer: I am a liberal, progressive, feminist, here because I like talking to you all.  We're all this together.

Online DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,535
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2018, 08:06:46 am »
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621648/
Retiring of the pre-frontal cortex isn't complete until 25.  That's the "rational" part of the brain.

I don't know how to explain it, you all.  But it's demonstrable.

http://hrweb.mit.edu/worklife/youngadult/brain.html

Just because it isn't "complete" doesn't mean you can't be responsible before that age. My parents married at 18. Are you going to restrict people making the biggest decision of their life until their brain is "fully" developed? When I went to high school in the 70's kids had gun racks loaded with guns parked in the school parking lot. An understanding of guns, their use and their consequences at a young age lead to more responsible kids, not more dangerous ones.

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2018, 03:16:51 pm »
I find it amusing that they can enlist and draft 18 year-olds into the military - put a machine gun in their hands and train them how to efficiently use it on an enemy - but they cannot buy a drink or purchase a lesser weapon themselves as a civilian.

And just to make things even more confusing...at the same time Libs are pushing for raising the age to 21 to purchase a gun...they want to drop the voting age to 16.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2018, 03:18:08 pm »
Do you all think the fact that the human brain isn't fully developed until age 25, should affect the way we think about adulthood and maturity?

No.  Raising the age to 21 to purchase  a gun wouldn't have stopped any of the recent mass shootings.  Raising it to 25 won't stop it either.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline driftdiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,897
  • Gender: Male
  • I could eat it raw but why when I have fire
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2018, 03:25:55 pm »
Do you all think the fact that the human brain isn't fully developed until age 25, should affect the way we think about adulthood and maturity?

@LauraTXNM
Yes, women should not be allowed to vote until they are 21.   We seriously need to look at all the Constitutionally protected rights.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2018, 03:37:29 pm »
And just to make things even more confusing...at the same time Libs are pushing for raising the age to 21 to purchase a gun...they want to drop the voting age to 16.


! No longer available
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2018, 04:43:55 pm »
Quote
DOJ Reclassifies Bump Fire Stocks as Machine Guns

In the post-Parkland hysteria, President Trump directed the Department of Justice to perform some regulatory legerdemain where bump fire stocks are concerned. The ATF had long ago passed on the stocks, deeming them perfectly legal accessories for semi-automatic rifles. Now, in a Saturday morning move apparently meant to fly under the radar . . .

The U.S. Department of Justice formally submitted a regulation on Saturday to ban “bump stocks,” a modification to high-capacity rifles that lets them fire like an automatic weapon.

...The move does not require congressional approval, allowing the administration to side-step what could have been insurmountable pressure from pro-gun groups such as the National Rifle Association that have worked to erode changes in firearm laws in the wake of mass shootings in Florida and Nevada.

A bump stock does not go in the receiver of the firearm. It does not attach to the trigger or touch the trigger.   It is a shelf your finger rests on but your finger still works the trigger once for each bullet fired.

The meme in government and media circles is to ban "any item that increases the rate of fire of the stock firearm".

That nails all binary triggers which the Alphabets already said were not an issue.

This new reclassification and meme opens the door to wiping out a lot of common build and/or repair parts.

Many gun owners often opt to install better triggers to suit their needs.   If they shoot competitions or want to shoot longer range or just want a crisper or lighter trigger.

They may no longer be able to do so.

The buffer weight and buffer spring are likely the next on the list of reclassification.   Same for magazines.  Once government begins the process of regulating the rate of fire and capability of fire, it will not be long before the only 'legal firearm' is a bolt-action single-shot firearm.

Of course - I will comply with none of the government's infringements, because they have no jurisdiction to touch it.

Regardless of what they claim they have authority to infringe upon.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2018, 04:47:19 pm »
Trump is doing well to try to represent everyone and not an extremist fringe.

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2018, 04:55:20 pm »
Trump is doing well to try to represent everyone and not an extremist fringe.

Ummm...yeah...ok.   *****rollingeyes*****
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline driftdiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,897
  • Gender: Male
  • I could eat it raw but why when I have fire
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2018, 04:58:00 pm »
Trump is doing well to try to represent everyone and not an extremist fringe.

@TomSea
So in your mind its extreme for a 18 year old to purchase a firearm?
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2018, 04:58:27 pm »
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621648/
Retiring of the pre-frontal cortex isn't complete until 25.  That's the "rational" part of the brain.

I don't know how to explain it, you all.  But it's demonstrable.

http://hrweb.mit.edu/worklife/youngadult/brain.html

Just because it is complete, does not mean with was insufficient to handle judgement before that point.

My children had better judgement at 17 than many at 26.

But they were raised with consequences for their actions.  They were also given responsibility far earlier than most of their peers.  They were allowed to fail and learned how to learn from their own mistakes.

They were supported and loved.  They knew they could depend upon us, but learned to accomplish goals from their own actions.
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
Re: Trump To Buck NRA - Push To Raise Minimum Rifle Purchase Age to 21
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2018, 05:01:28 pm »
The meme in government and media circles is to ban "any item that increases the rate of fire of the stock firearm".

This means we have to go back to flintlocks.  Everything since then was increasing the rate of fire of the stock firearm.
Life is fragile, handle with prayer