Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election

[DiogenesLamp]

He wasn’t ‘handed’ anything. He created it. Bannon was endorsing Moore prior to the run off.

Which is a perfectly sensible thing to do if you are trying to insure a candidate that is not beholding to the Washington DC cronies club is selected.   


Bannon did exactly what any reasonable person in his situation would have done.   

[Frank Cannon]

Goldwater is a very good example of what happened.   


No doubt some people will just conclude he was a "bad"  candidate.

So Goldwater admitted to dating teenagers in his 30's, called the US a threat to the free world and had a spokesman publicly say that he wanted gays arrested?

[TomSea]

Moore may have won the Republican primary because outsider Bannon came in with full-support. That would take some study but the outsiders at Wapo may not have been the first. As said, it seems like one of the networks ran the graphic Moore only won in a 2011 race, 52-48%.

[edpc]

And your basis for claiming that Strange would have been effective at repelling the Democrat accusations of corruption is what?

I already explained that in the post you quoted.  He would’ve had more competent people around him to fend it off. Besides, he was endorsed at the outset by a president who won the state by a large margin.
   
Can I prove it? No – not anymore than you can prove he would’ve lost. The same argument has been raised concerning the presidential election and how other candidates may have performed against a terrible Democratic nominee.

It only exists in some parallel universe, so we will never know.  What we do know is Moore lost in a brick red state.

[DiogenesLamp]

The point of discourse for me today is to laugh and mock people who are circling the wagons around a piece of human shit who got fully rejected by a solid red state last night.

The pieces of human shit revealed to me are those who malign others on the bases of unsupported accusations against them by their political enemies.   


We are floating in an ocean of pretentious "Holier than thou"  judges.   This is the cesspool full of human sh*t. 

[Hoodat]

The same way they owed me an apology in November @Hoodat ?

@Right_in_Virginia

That would depend.  What do you feel you are owed an apology for?  Getting it right about Trump's chances of getting elected?  Sure, I have stated that more than once.  But an apology?  Not quite sure what for.

[edpc]

Bannon did exactly what any reasonable person in his situation would have done.

What situation? He was a private citizen by the time he was touting Roy Moore in August, prior to the runoff.  By previously stating the situation he was ‘handed,’ you make it sound like he came in at the 11th hour to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t.

The fact is, he fed the chickens, shoveled the manure, put it in a bowl, stirred it, and served it up. Enjoy.

[XenaLee]

The quality of Moore as a candidate aside, anyone who joined the coyote chorus against him is also at knowing odds with everything that would've been possible by adding him the congress. It doesn't matter how much 'lets all us conservatives pull together' post election prattle you hear from them. Its all been heard before.

Thats just a plain fact.

I have to wonder..... if the motivation behind some of the anti-Moore folks wasn't the glaringly obvious fact... that many of those that opposed Moore are also rabid anti-Trumpers.   

Their motivation being the same as the Democrats' motivation.   Get Moore out by handing the seat to a Democrat that will shift the balance of the majority towards the rats in the 2018 election.  Perhaps they are counting on the rats winning control back of Congress next year... so that Trump can be impeached?  I hate to think anyone could or would be willing to trash America and give the Democrats control again.... to the detriment of the entire nation.... just to get rid of Trump.  But....

 

[Frank Cannon]

The pieces of human shit revealed to me are those who malign others on the bases of unsupported accusations against them by their political enemies.   


We are floating in an ocean of pretentious "Holier than thou"  judges.   This is the cesspool full of human sh*t.

You can tie your wagon to the guy who defended himself when asked if he did this kiddy stuff said "No, not generally" or "It was not my customary behavior". Real resounding denial there.

I'll pass on that.

[Frank Cannon]

I have to wonder..... if the motivation behind some of the anti-Moore folks wasn't the glaringly obvious fact... that many of those that opposed Moore are also rabid anti-Trumpers.   

Their motivation being the same as the Democrats' motivation.   Get Moore out by handing the seat to a Democrat that will shift the balance of the majority towards the rats in the 2018 election.  Perhaps they are counting on the rats winning control back of Congress next year... so that Trump can be impeached?  I hate to think anyone could or would be willing to trash America and give the Democrats control again.... to the detriment of the entire nation.... just to get rid of Trump.  But....

I love Trump. I hate Moore. I hated Moore before the allegations. So did Donny.

Time to put the thinking cap back on I guess.

[txradioguy]

It really scorches you to your core when the President is right, doesn't it @txradioguy   

Which time was he right?  When he endorsed the McConnell puppet Strange?  When he half heartedly endorsed Moore and made a "get out the vote" robocall for him?  Or today when he threw the man he endorsed under the bus Obama style?

[Hoodat]

Moore lost because he was an astonishingly bad candidate, with baggage both legal and moral,  and he was lazy as hell to boot. 

@Jazzhead

It pains me greatly to say this, but I agree.  Especially on the 'lazy' part.

[skeeter]

You can tie your wagon to the guy who defended himself when asked if he did this kiddy stuff said "No, not generally" or "It was not my customary behavior". Real resounding denial there.

I'll pass on that.

Well I do not believe last nights results make Trump’s job going forward any easier.

[edpc]

I have to wonder..... if the motivation behind some of the anti-Moore folks wasn't the glaringly obvious fact... that many of those that opposed Moore are also rabid anti-Trumpers.

Yes, because it’s really odd a group thinking ‘there must be a better representative of my views’ would still feel that way a year later.   

[Smokin Joe]

He thinks Most of the Amendments past the 10th were garbage,   and so do I.    I have thought this since long before I ever heard of Roy Moore,    but I'm sure you won't bother to debate the actual pros and cons of the amendments after the first 10,  because it's easier to mock than it is to think,   and some people are just too lazy to do anything else.

He's busy mocking the tenth. Didn't even make it past there.

[dfwgator]

@Jazzhead

It pains me greatly to say this, but I agree.  Especially on the 'lazy' part.

He went "Full Hillary" the last week of the election, thought he had it in the bag.

[XenaLee]

Yes, because it’s really odd a group thinking ‘there must be a better representative of my views’ would still feel that way a year later.   

Sarc away.... but the fact remains.... that those opposed to Moore in order to "get Trump" or stick it to Trump due to their hatred and bias against him just took a giant step towards handing the keys of the nation back to the enemy within.... the DemocRats.  Roll your eyes on that fact.

[Smokin Joe]

Oh, stop whining, Applewood.   Mo Brooks and Luther Strange are good conservatives, and either would have coasted to victory with the full support of the Republican party.  Moore lost because he was an astonishingly bad candidate, with baggage both legal and moral,  and he was lazy as hell to boot. 

The GOP, and President Trump, dodged a bullet with the defeat of this assclown.   The voters rejected Moore just as they elected President Trump.   May the voters' choices be respected.   

Funny you say that now, but when 81% of the voters in Alabama voted to pass a Constitutional Amendment to their State Constitution saying that marriage is only between one man and one woman, you have no problem with overruling them with one stinking Federal Judge who should have no Constitutional Authority at all per the Tenth Amendment.

You can't have it both ways, and your Hypocrisy has been on prominent display, even as you gloat. You got what you wanted to see: someone who supports thrid trimester abortion, who supports gun control, and the rest of the liberal agenda and you are gloating about it while claiming to be a conservative.

Nice. 

[Sanguine]

I have to wonder..... if the motivation behind some of the anti-Moore folks wasn't the glaringly obvious fact... that many of those that opposed Moore are also rabid anti-Trumpers.   

Their motivation being the same as the Democrats' motivation.   Get Moore out by handing the seat to a Democrat that will shift the balance of the majority towards the rats in the 2018 election.  Perhaps they are counting on the rats winning control back of Congress next year... so that Trump can be impeached?  I hate to think anyone could or would be willing to trash America and give the Democrats control again.... to the detriment of the entire nation.... just to get rid of Trump.  But....

Well, in all fairness, Trump was against him before he was for him...

[Smokin Joe]

British Royals aren't eligible for office in the US.

[XenaLee]

I love Trump. I hate Moore. I hated Moore before the allegations. So did Donny.

Time to put the thinking cap back on I guess.

Not really.   Unless....

you are speaking for all of the anti-Trump/Trump haters.

[massadvj]

I don't blame the anti-Trump Republicans so much as the failure of the religious types in the rural areas to turn out.  It shows that sliming Moore with the sexual stuff had its desired effect on many religious conservatives.  Because they had doubts, they stayed home.  Moore also made a serious mistake in failing to show his face in public toward the end.

[XenaLee]

Well, in all fairness, Trump was against him before he was for him...

Lol!  Look, I am no cheerleading Trump fan... as most here should know by now.  BUT... (and that's a big one)...

giving the Democrats a win of ANY KIND is a huge mistake and one that America and Americans will pay dearly for.  As we also know... the rats & Soros have been working diligently behind the scenes to regain power and control.  We simply can't let that happen. 

But oddly enough... it seems that many (even here on this forum) are only too happy to do just that.... ie give the Democrats a win and allow them to regain power and majority control.  Now... I don't give a damn, really, what their motivation for doing that is... whether it's hatred of Trump or their love of leftism.  I oppose it and I oppose them.  Vehemently.

[edpc]

Sarc away.... but the fact remains.... that those opposed to Moore in order to "get Trump" or stick it to Trump due to their hatred and bias against him just took a giant step towards handing the keys of the nation back to the enemy within.... the DemocRats.  Roll your eyes on that fact.

I will, because the only people on any position to 'get Trump' were the AL voters that turned out in much larger numbers last Nov and gave him 62% of the vote.  These are voters that heard Trump get maligned much heavier and longer than Moore.  They didn't believe in Roy.  Why should anyone outside AL?

[Free Vulcan]

I don't blame the anti-Trump Republicans so much as the failure of the religious types in the rural areas to turn out.  It shows that sliming Moore with the sexual stuff had its desired effect on many religious conservatives.  Because they had doubts, they stayed home.  Moore also made a serious mistake in failing to show his face in public toward the end.

What the Moore-hating doofuses don't realize is that the Dems do this in every race. They did it to my candidates when I was running their campaign, now they've taken it up another level with Moore.

Expect every candidate from here to get Cained and Cruzed, and watch the oh so morally superior so-called conservatives run and hide on every one.

[Smokin Joe]

Similar to the day care ritual child abuse hysteria of the 80’s, Americans (and the Western world) are now fully gripped in a mass hysteria warlock hunt. This can only end badly for families, community and country.

That daycare hysteria and the use of hypnosis implanted 'repressed' memories were used by one Janet Reno (Butcher of Waco,  exporter of Elian (at gunpoint), "There is no evidence which exists", among other things) as a prosecutor in Florida to harass a family into leaving the United States after allegations that their 14 year old was molesting children in a church day care, in a room with glass walls above wainscot level. None of the allegations were ever proven.

Big things can come from small starts, and this is one noxious weed that isn't done spreading.

[skeeter]

But oddly enough... it seems that many (even here on this forum) are only too happy to do just that.... ie give the Democrats a win and allow them to regain power and majority control.  Now... I don't give a damn, really, what their motivation for doing that is... whether it's hatred of Trump or their love of leftism.  I oppose it and I oppose them.  Vehemently.

Those polishing last night's turd are every bit as much my opposition as are the democrats. There's just too much at stake.

Its too damn bad, cause its natural to want to take people at their word for who they are and what they believe, even on an internet forum.

[Jazzhead]

Funny you say that now, but when 81% of the voters in Alabama voted to pass a Constitutional Amendment to their State Constitution saying that marriage is only between one man and one woman, you have no problem with overruling them with one stinking Federal Judge who should have no Constitutional Authority at all per the Tenth Amendment.

You can't have it both ways, and your Hypocrisy has been on prominent display, even as you gloat. You got what you wanted to see: someone who supports thrid trimester abortion, who supports gun control, and the rest of the liberal agenda and you are gloating about it while claiming to be a conservative.

Nice. 

Oh pish posh.    The right of gays to marry was found in the 14th amendment, which as part of the federal Constitution overrides contrary provisions in state constitutions.   You'd be agreeing with me, of course, if the federal right at stake were the 2nd Amendment.   

What hypocrisy?  Do you even know the meaning of the term?   I early on urged the Alabama GOP to rescind its nomination, precisely because I wanted a conservative to win the seat.    Third trimester abortions?  Of course, I'm against.   Gun control?   I support the 2nd Amendment as construed by the Heller court.  And as for supporting the liberal agenda,  I had a fascinating interaction with a colleague this morning who's stone cold Dem partisan and knows I'm a Republican.   He said he was hoping against hope that Moore would win, because of the easy damage it would allow his party to inflict on Republicans leading up to the 2018 elections.   I told him that the GOP had dodged a bullet.   

[Smokin Joe]

YOU and the Weekly Standard don't get the fact that Roy Moore was upholding the oath he swore to the Alabama Constitution when he did that!  And he was removed by a bunch of sick lawyers for doing it!

There are no Constitutional provisions giving the Federal Government any authority over marriage, whatsoever. Therefore, by virtue of the Tenth Amendment, that authority falls to the States of to the People. The People of Alabama voted 4:1 in favor of an Amendment to their Constitution to define marriage as between one man and one woman. The voters spoke, the state had the constitutional authority and the voters' mandate. The State and the People had established law, when a Federal Judge unconstitutionally usurped that authority.
Moore, as Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court rightfully resisted that usurpation to the point it cost him his job.

[XenaLee]

I will, because the only people on any position to 'get Trump' were the AL voters that turned out in much larger numbers last Nov and gave him 62% of the vote.  These are voters that heard Trump get maligned much heavier and longer than Moore.  They didn't believe in Roy.  Why should anyone outside AL?

Point is.... giving the seat to a Democrat is putting Trump one step closer to an impeachment proceeding... which is what the Trump haters & Democrats are all counting on.  The people in Alabama fell victim to the leftist tactics of personal destruction and Herman Caining strategy of the rabid left.  They were duped into handing the seat to the rats... despite their support of Trump...

and in a red state.  I find that indicative of how the left will be pushing the entire nation full-tilt from now on.  They have their playbook and their tactics are working splendidly.  It's a danger to the entire nation... not just Alabama or one state.  Do you not get that?

[Hoodat]

@CatherineofAragon et al

Throughout this campaign, I purposely reserved judgment against Moore, waiting for more evidence to come forth.  I was willing to dismiss the yearbook scribblings and the 40-year-old claims against him in the absence of any established patterns.  However, examining his behavior during the campaign, I can only conclude that there is something not right about him.

Many here have held him up as a standard-bearer of the Christian faith.  However, it is clear by his inaction that he is driven by fear instead of faith.  And fear is a sin.

So regardless of his guilt or innocence with these old charges, what matters to me now is this:

• Moore was not willing to fight to win the seat.  He shied from campaigning.  He failed to make is case for why he would make a good Senator.
  
  
• Moore was not able to admit the above.  He lacks the humility to admit his flaws, and to recognize that he had no business entering this race to begin with.  And even now, that same ego will not allow him to concede defeat.

Just my two cents.

[Bigun]

I have to wonder..... if the motivation behind some of the anti-Moore folks wasn't the glaringly obvious fact... that many of those that opposed Moore are also rabid anti-Trumpers.   

Their motivation being the same as the Democrats' motivation.   Get Moore out by handing the seat to a Democrat that will shift the balance of the majority towards the rats in the 2018 election.  Perhaps they are counting on the rats winning control back of Congress next year... so that Trump can be impeached?  I hate to think anyone could or would be willing to trash America and give the Democrats control again.... to the detriment of the entire nation.... just to get rid of Trump.  But....

Hate to think it all you like, it has become patently obvious that many posters here are not conservative in any manner and will do anything and everything they can to help preserve the status quo in Washington.

[dfwgator]

Peoples' before and after reactions to Moore remind me of the movie "Wall Street"

Wall Street - The Beginning

“I knew the minute I laid eyes on you, you had what it takes, Bud.”

Wall Street - The End

“The minute I laid eyes on you, I knew you were no good.”

[Hoodat]

He went "Full Hillary" the last week of the election, thought he had it in the bag.

Great way of putting it.

[XenaLee]

Those polishing last night's turd are every bit as much my opposition as are the democrats. There's just too much at stake.

Its too damn bad, cause its natural to want to take people at their word for who they are and what they believe, even on an internet forum.

Natural?  Lol!  I learned almost 20 years ago not to do that.  I had friends on the internet that I trusted, loved and thought I knew....thought they were like-minded righties like myself.  One turned out to be a rabid leftist commie (I think he was podded) .... and one turned out to be just a fool that liked the most rabid leftist liberal hag on the net at the time.   I learned not to trust ANYONE for what they say they are on the internet.  It's jaded, but it is reality... and I am now a realist. 

The only person I was correct about was a female conservative in Houston that I met in person, had lunch with and shot some pool with a few times until she had a baby and was too busy to do anything but be a mom.  Since then, I really don't take anything at face value on the net.
 

[Smokin Joe]

When I was growing up,  My sixth grade teacher was a big fan of World War II.   He had brought numerous books on the subject to the class,   and many of us were enthralled.   


Since that time,   I  have been involved in innumerable debates regarding Hitler's rise to power,   and how so many Germans could have turned into such vicious people regarding the Jews.    Till the 21st century came along,   I and my friends could make no headway in explaining this intractable problem of how the Germans went full Nazi.     


Now I grasp the role of "Preference Cascade" (Positive Feedback Loop)  and propaganda in achieving "group think"  the sort of which causes otherwise decent people to turn into monsters.   


Since the rise of Obama,   I now see how fascism gains a grip on a populace.

Yep. It's quite a show, opening soon in streets across the country.

[XenaLee]

Hate to think it all you like, it has become patently obvious that many posters here are not conservative in any manner and will do anything and everything they can to help preserve the status quo in Washington.

Yeah... and when you see them blame Conservatism.... it just makes that even more glaringly clear.  Crystal, in fact.

[Bigun]

What the Moore-hating doofuses don't realize is that the Dems do this in every race. They did it to my candidates when I was running their campaign, now they've taken it up another level with Moore.

Expect every candidate from here to get Cained and Cruzed, and watch the oh so morally superior so-called conservatives run and hide on every one.

Yep!  That is exactly what you can expect to see from now on. 

[Frank Cannon]

Not really.   Unless....

you are speaking for all of the anti-Trump/Trump haters.

I speak for everyone. My word is unimpeachable.

[Cyber Liberty]

Yep. It's quite a show, opening soon in streets across the country.

The people they are expecting to round up for the cattle cars are armed.

[Cyber Liberty]

I speak for everyone. My word is unimpeachable.

Finally a post on this thread I can enjoy a laugh with....

[Smokin Joe]

The fact Moore was outspent 14 to 1 probably has nothing to do with it, right?

Spare us the bloviating.

Nothing like being thrown to the wolves by "your own" party at the first sign of allegations, and having your national party funding pulled, except maybe being threatened by one of "your own" with being unseated the moment you get elected. The death of the GOP has begun.

[Jazzhead]

There are no Constitutional provisions giving the Federal Government any authority over marriage, whatsoever. Therefore, by virtue of the Tenth Amendment, that authority falls to the States of to the People. The People of Alabama voted 4:1 in favor of an Amendment to their Constitution to define marriage as between one man and one woman. The voters spoke, the state had the constitutional authority and the voters' mandate. The State and the People had established law, when a Federal Judge unconstitutionally usurped that authority.
Moore, as Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court rightfully resisted that usurpation to the point it cost him his job.

Fourteenth Amendment.  I'll say it slowly - F-O-U-R-T-E-E-N-T-H Amendment.   

[txradioguy]

Fourteenth Amendment.  I'll say it slowly - F-O-U-R-T-E-E-N-T-H Amendment.   

Let me say it slowly for you...again...T-H-A-T-'S-A-L-I-E

[DiogenesLamp]

Several of those amendments were ratified under the business end of guns but that shouldn't matter should it?  /s

Well it depends on whether or not you believe in this "consent of the governed"  stuff.   


I'm sure there are people here who are claiming to be all about "The people of Alabama have spoken",   who would also have had no problems with people pointing guns at these same people in Alabama and telling them to vote they way they were ordered.   

[Sanguine]

@CatherineofAragon et al

Throughout this campaign, I purposely reserved judgment against Moore, waiting for more evidence to come forth.  I was willing to dismiss the yearbook scribblings and the 40-year-old claims against him in the absence of any established patterns.  However, examining his behavior during the campaign, I can only conclude that there is something not right about him.

Many here have held him up as a standard-bearer of the Christian faith.  However, it is clear by his inaction that he is driven by fear instead of faith.  And fear is a sin.

So regardless of his guilt or innocence with these old charges, what matters to me now is this:

• Moore was not willing to fight to win the seat.  He shied from campaigning.  He failed to make is case for why he would make a good Senator.
  
  
• Moore was not able to admit the above.  He lacks the humility to admit his flaws, and to recognize that he had no business entering this race to begin with.  And even now, that same ego will not allow him to concede defeat.

Just my two cents.

Good post, @Hoodat.

[txradioguy]

Fourteenth Amendment.  I'll say it slowly - F-O-U-R-T-E-E-N-T-H Amendment.   

Here's why...again...as I told you previously when you pulled this 14th Amendment trick...a favorite of Liberals...you're wrong.

The 14th Amendment was intended to prevent states from discriminating against newly freed slaves. At that time blacks and women didn't even have the right to vote, yet no court ever thought it could use the "equal protection" clause to change state voting laws. So why do some district courts think they can use it now to change state marriage laws? Are we to believe that "equal protection" does not guarantee a woman's right to vote but does guarantee a woman's right to marry another woman?

https://www.onenewsnow.com/perspectives/miscellaneous/2015/03/19/why-the-14th-amendment-cant-possibly-require-same-sex-marriage

[Bigun]

Nothing like being thrown to the wolves by "your own" party at the first sign of allegations, and having your national party funding pulled, except maybe being threatened by one of "your own" with being unseated the moment you get elected. The death of the GOP has begun.

Is it any wonder that decent people refuse to enter the arena of politics now and we end up with the dregs as our representatives in government?

[DiogenesLamp]

The fact Moore was outspent 14 to 1 probably has nothing to do with it, right?

Spare us the bloviating.

The election really wasn't bought with money.   It was bought with accusations.   


And New York/Washington Propaganda power. 

[edpc]

Point is.... giving the seat to a Democrat is putting Trump one step closer to an impeachment proceeding... which is what the Trump haters & Democrats are all counting on.  The people in Alabama fell victim to the leftist tactics of personal destruction and Herman Caining strategy of the rabid left.  They were duped into handing the seat to the rats... despite their support of Trump...

and in a red state.  I find that indicative of how the left will be pushing the entire nation full-tilt from now on.  They have their playbook and their tactics are working splendidly.  It's a danger to the entire nation... not just Alabama or one state.  Do you not get that?

An impeachment proceeding begins in the House.  Plus, they need 67 in the Senate to convict.  So, this particular seat has nothing to do with that.  Moore, however, would have been the poster boy in every Dem attack ad coming up in '18 to flip the House.  They have an outside shot at that, but not much hope in the Senate.

http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/what-are-democrats-chances-for-a-house-majority-in-2018/article/2615340

By the time 2020 rolls around, Jones will be up for re-election in a presidential year with much higher turnout.  I doubt he'll survive.