Author Topic: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men  (Read 34227 times)

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Offline Restored

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #300 on: December 18, 2017, 08:52:31 am »
History clearly shows Muslims take the bacon when it comes to brutality.   They have for 1400 years.   Christians have done some bad things but its not systemic.

To even make that argument is just plain silly.

Not only that Christianity didn't kill anyone. Governmental religion killed lots of people including Jesus.
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Offline Sighlass

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #301 on: December 18, 2017, 09:02:16 am »
@roamer_1

There is only a difference in the minds of the cult followers. At least once this lead to a religious war that lasted for over 150 years,and probably resulted in a higher percentage of deaths than any other war in western history.

A little thing you may have heard of called "The Reformation".



http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH_C_MORTACRACIES.GIF

What has been the top killing thing of all time?   .... Godless pushing governments. The past 110 years surpass the previous 19 centuries added together.

Chinese communists-76,702,000
Soviet Union-61,911,000
German Nazis-17,000,000
Chinese Nationalists-10,214,000
Japanese militarists-5,890,000
China(Mao Soviets 1923-49)-3,466,000
Cambodia-2,035,000
Turkey-1,883,000
Vietnam-1,670,000(most after the war by communist)
North Korea-1,663,000
Poland-1,585,000
Pakistan-1,503,000
Mexico(1900-20)-1,417,000
Yugoslavia-1,072,000
Russia(1900-17)-1,066,000

______________________


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0218GkAGbnU

____________________

War is the least of our problems... 20th century had about 35 million killed via war... yet that just scratches the chart of total deaths (200 to 270 million)....

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/WSJ.TAB1.GIF

« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 09:20:34 am by Sighlass »
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #302 on: December 18, 2017, 09:11:45 am »
@IsailedawayfromFR

You are assuming of course that there IS an "Almighty God",but he STILL needed men to scribble his thoughts on clay tablets and goat skin paper.

IF there is a God,I suspect he/she/it/whatever is more than capable of letting his/etc thoughts be known directly,and IF God exists,he is laughing his ass off at the antics of  his "ant farm",amazed that humans are so foolish as to accept the scribbling's of long-dead charlatans and opportunists seeking power are swallowed whole by so many,or just doesn't give a damn one way or the other because this was all nothing more than a high school science display for him.

There is a 99 percent chance the whole thing is nothing more than smoke and mirrors,though. The old lame "there MUST be a God or how could the world have been created?" explanation as "proof" of his existence immediately shuts down questioning when you ask them "If that is true,who created God?"
Limiting God to what You believe He will or won't do?  You really need to get back to your 5th grade class and what the definition of God is that you rejected.

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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #303 on: December 18, 2017, 09:26:30 am »
IF there is a God,I suspect he/she/it/whatever is more than capable of letting his/etc thoughts be known directly

That makes sense to me.  I'd rather seek the counsel of God directly than by means of a man-made organization that insists I become a tribal member and proselytize.    This has, of course, been a question for debate for thousands of years - can one know God directly, or must one's knowledge be filtered through the priest or other learned scholars who've parsed the texts of ancient books supposedly authored or inspired by God?

Well,  what books has God authored recently?  It seems He's retired from that game.   Except maybe He's inside of each of us,  willing to counsel anyone with a mind willing to look past morally indefensible dogma for an objective view of what is right and what is wrong. 

 I am not going to condemn my monogamous neighbors as perverts and abominations on the say-so of an ancient book.   I know my neighbors, I know their values, I can see with my own eyes that they are good people.   Why should I let the Bible turn me against them?   That isn't God speaking to me; this is a modern-day tribe of the sinful and imperfect insisting that I follow their edict notwithstanding that IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME.   Why did God give me the ability to think and reason and then forbid me from concluding that a stray passage in an ancient book just might be wrong?   
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 09:32:28 am by Jazzhead »
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Offline Restored

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #304 on: December 18, 2017, 09:51:58 am »
Quote
Why did God give me the ability to think and reason and then forbid me from concluding that a stray passage in an ancient book just might be wrong?   

Unless you have a videotape, it would be hard to prove or disprove anything from 2-3,000 years ago. So you either believe it or you don't. But dismissing parts because you disagree with them is illogical. If it says it, you must accept that it says it. Whether you personally disagree is another matter and perfectly acceptable. But I find most people tend to read it and then say it doesn't exist or that it doesn't really say what it says. That's cult behavior.

God ordered Saul to kill the Amalekite children. That's what it says. If you want to create a different god that doesn't kill the Amalekite children, that's up to you but it isn't Scriptural. Jesus talked about Hell. If you want to create a savior that doesn't do Hell, that's understandable but not Scriptural. That's how Rob Bell got into trouble. He created a god in his own image.

Quote
I am not going to condemn my monogamous neighbors as perverts and abominations on the say-so of an ancient book. 

People are not abominations. Actions are abominations.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 09:54:12 am by Restored »
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #305 on: December 18, 2017, 09:56:18 am »
Unless you have a videotape, it would be hard to prove or disprove anything from 2-3,000 years ago. So you either believe it or you don't. But dismissing parts because you disagree with them is illogical. If it says it, you must accept that it says it. Whether you personally disagree is another matter and perfectly acceptable. But I find most people tend to read it and then say it doesn't exist or that it doesn't really say what it says. That's cult behavior.

God ordered Saul to kill the Amalekite children. That's what it says. If you want to create a different god that doesn't kill the Amalekite children, that's up to you but it isn't Scriptural. Jesus talked about Hell. If you want to create a savior that doesn't do Hell, that's understandable but not Scriptural. That's how Rob Bell got into trouble. He created a god in his own image.

People are not abominations. Actions are abominations.

And, besides we are so much smarter and wiser than those ancient writers.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #306 on: December 18, 2017, 10:36:08 am »
@roamer_1

There is only a difference in the minds of the cult followers. At least once this lead to a religious war that lasted for over 150 years,and probably resulted in a higher percentage of deaths than any other war in western history.

A little thing you may have heard of called "The Reformation".

Nah... Mot even close. The godless Communists are way ahead on that account... Add another hundred million more or so in the insistence on abortion since the rise of godless 3rd-way communism in the West (as Christendom recedes) and nothing touches the godless (just in the last three quarters of a century or so).

And all that is the outright murder of citizenry. The Reformation was largely war between nations.

Again, I invite you to identify my particular cult leader - Should be an easy task for such an erudite mind, To imagine that mind, capable enough at a mere ten years of age, to solve and resolve a tome of such complexity that it has boggled the minds of centuries and centuries (aeons really) of the very best and most educated theologians and scholars - The work of their whole lives dedicated to the task... It is a wonder.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are in the presence of greatness.

LOL! Really Pete, I'm done with you on this topic. I love ya pal, but your bias in this is only surpassed by your incredible ignorance in the subject matter. It shows, and it's boring. But where it begs offense is in the bare fact that in the last decade or so, I have stood shoulder to shoulder with you personally, in many a debate defending Federalism and Libertarianism, and still you would accuse me of desiring theocracy. That's cold, man, and it's bullshit.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #307 on: December 18, 2017, 01:50:56 pm »
Not only that Christianity didn't kill anyone. Governmental religion killed lots of people including Jesus.

@Restored

VERY good point,and one I had completely overlooked. In fact,Jesus was killed because he was the head man of a new religion that was competing with the established religion in power.

Some things will never change.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #308 on: December 18, 2017, 01:56:21 pm »


http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH_C_MORTACRACIES.GIF

What has been the top killing thing of all time?   .... Godless pushing governments. The past 110 years surpass the previous 19 centuries added together.

Chinese communists-76,702,000
Soviet Union-61,911,000
German Nazis-17,000,000
Chinese Nationalists-10,214,000
Japanese militarists-5,890,000
China(Mao Soviets 1923-49)-3,466,000
Cambodia-2,035,000
Turkey-1,883,000
Vietnam-1,670,000(most after the war by communist)
North Korea-1,663,000
Poland-1,585,000
Pakistan-1,503,000
Mexico(1900-20)-1,417,000
Yugoslavia-1,072,000
Russia(1900-17)-1,066,000

______________________


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0218GkAGbnU

____________________

War is the least of our problems... 20th century had about 35 million killed via war... yet that just scratches the chart of total deaths (200 to 270 million)....

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/WSJ.TAB1.GIF

@Sighlass

You are conveniently ignoring how many people were murdered in each era as a percentage OF THE POPULATION AT THAT TIME.

Or if you want to play YOUR game,I would like to point out that the highest claimed fatality rate in all of history was due to a Christian murdering own Christian and literal brother,when 25 percent of the existing worldwide population was murdered by a Christian.

 Ever heard of Cain and Abel?
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #309 on: December 18, 2017, 01:58:09 pm »
Limiting God to what You believe He will or won't do?  You really need to get back to your 5th grade class and what the definition of God is that you rejected.

@IsailedawayfromFR

Is God based as a brain fart a better fit for you?
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #310 on: December 18, 2017, 02:07:36 pm »
Quote
That makes sense to me.  I'd rather seek the counsel of God directly than by means of a man-made organization that insists I become a tribal member and proselytize.    This has, of course, been a question for debate for thousands of years - can one know God directly, or must one's knowledge be filtered through the priest or other learned scholars who've parsed the texts of ancient books supposedly authored or inspired by God?


@Jazzhead

That would first require the CMMFIC's of each religion on the planet to get together and agree on WHO and WHAT "God" is,even before they started murdering each other over what his demands are.

Good luck with that one.
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Offline Restored

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #311 on: December 18, 2017, 02:09:37 pm »
VERY good point,and one I had completely overlooked. In fact,Jesus was killed because he was the head man of a new religion that was competing with the established religion in power.

Some things will never change.

He was killed for opposing the government. The religious leaders accused him of inciting a rebellion against Rome. Pilate shot down that idea but wanted to avoid trouble. He later ridiculed the religious authorities by posting a sign over Jesus' head that read "King of the Jews".
The Roman church didn't kill people for opposing the faith. They killed them for opposing the church's contrived narratives and for opposing the church government. Translating the Bible into form that could be read by the masses was a capital crime. In short, insurrection against the church. Cults maintain their authority by controlling the narratives and suppressing any disagreement, especially if the data is true.
If you get 10 Methodists in a room to discuss religion, we start disagreeing immediately with the church and each other.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #312 on: December 18, 2017, 02:09:55 pm »
And, besides we are so much smarter and wiser than those ancient writers.

@Sanguine

Yeah,we are. The typical western 3rd grader of today is wiser than any of them.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #313 on: December 18, 2017, 02:13:06 pm »
@Sanguine

Yeah,we are. The typical western 3rd grader of today is wiser than any of them.

Hmmm.  How many 3rd graders do you know?  Not many would be my guess.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #314 on: December 18, 2017, 02:18:23 pm »

Quote
Nah... Mot even close. The godless Communists are way ahead on that account... Add another hundred million more or so in the insistence on abortion since the rise of godless 3rd-way communism in the West (as Christendom recedes) and nothing touches the godless (just in the last three quarters of a century or so).

Miss the words "higher percentage of deaths"?

Quote
And all that is the outright murder of citizenry. The Reformation was largely war between nations.

You can't possibly believe that crap. It was a war against the Catholic Church by those who didn't want to be Catholic,and didn't think it was right to be tortured to death for not being a Catholic. Every nation in the west at that time had a Catholic "shadow government" that had the right and the power to arrest anyone at any time and put them on trial in a church court. Even royalty weren't immune to arrest,torture,and execution.

Quote
Again, I invite you to identify my particular cult leader -

Yeah,just like he is different from every other cult leader. Nice try.

Look,if you want to believe in superstitious nonsense if that is what makes you happy. You have every right to do so as an American citizen. You just don't have the right to demand the rest of live according to your beliefs or face punishment.


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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #315 on: December 18, 2017, 02:28:33 pm »
He was killed for opposing the government. The religious leaders accused him of inciting a rebellion against Rome. Pilate shot down that idea but wanted to avoid trouble. He later ridiculed the religious authorities by posting a sign over Jesus' head that read "King of the Jews".
The Roman church didn't kill people for opposing the faith. They killed them for opposing the church's contrived narratives and for opposing the church government. Translating the Bible into form that could be read by the masses was a capital crime. In short, insurrection against the church. Cults maintain their authority by controlling the narratives and suppressing any disagreement, especially if the data is true.
If you get 10 Methodists in a room to discuss religion, we start disagreeing immediately with the church and each other.

Explain the Inquisitions, in Spain, France and Italy. I understand non-Catholics (Jews, Protestants) were persecuted, some killed, many fled or falsely converted.

Explain the Christian Protestant church-state under Cromwell. I think lives were lost.

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Offline Mod1

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #316 on: December 18, 2017, 02:38:22 pm »
Please stick to the topic and leave off the religious wars.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #317 on: December 18, 2017, 10:12:27 pm »
@Restored

VERY good point,and one I had completely overlooked. In fact,Jesus was killed because he was the head man of a new religion that was competing with the established religion in power.

Some things will never change.
It wasn't a new religion until Jesus was resurrected, so, nope. Jesus was killed because that was the plan.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #318 on: December 18, 2017, 10:33:47 pm »
It wasn't a new religion until Jesus was resurrected, so, nope. Jesus was killed because that was the plan.

@Smokin Joe

You can't be serious. Jesus already had his disciples,and was already promoting his father/God.

Is it possible you don't know a damn thing about the roots of your own religion?
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Offline MOD8

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #319 on: December 18, 2017, 10:46:32 pm »
Hey, remember earlier today when Mod1 said, "Leave off the religious wars"?  He meant it.  Knock it off.

Final warning, get back on topic "New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight Men". 

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #320 on: December 18, 2017, 10:47:23 pm »
@Smokin Joe

You can't be serious. Jesus already had his disciples,and was already promoting his father/God.

Is it possible you don't know a damn thing about the roots of your own religion?
Until he was resurrected, he was regarded as a prophet, a healer, and by a few as the Son of God, but coming back is what the religion is based on. Others had healed the sick and done other miracles, but none of them had beaten death itself.
"I am the resurrection and the life.", was something without serious weight until the tomb was empty again.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #321 on: December 19, 2017, 06:56:09 am »
All right people. For the record, the Amelikites WERE abominable people. As were several dozen other tribes that carried the seed of the Nephilim . The origination of homosexuality came with the rise of pagan worship. I believe there is no genetic predisposition to be homosexual. It is ALL environmental factors. There are a huge number of people who claim to be homosexual out of defiance to their true nature. Defiant to God and His plan. Or they are just plain stupid. They can go flock themselves.

Read Romans chapter one.

There is an alarming number of people in this world today who really do think "fat, stupid, and lazy" is the way to go through life. And there is an equally alarming number of people who agree, or at least acquiesce to the idea. 

Get your shit together. You can't save the world. But you can save yourselves.
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Offline Restored

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #322 on: December 19, 2017, 08:16:02 am »
Ya'll hear a funny noise?
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Offline Sighlass

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #323 on: December 19, 2017, 09:06:21 am »
@Sighlass

You are conveniently ignoring how many people were murdered in each era as a percentage OF THE POPULATION AT THAT TIME.

Or if you want to play YOUR game,I would like to point out that the highest claimed fatality rate in all of history was due to a Christian murdering own Christian and literal brother,when 25 percent of the existing worldwide population was murdered by a Christian.

 Ever heard of Cain and Abel?

Nope... not even close... Over 50%...


Quote from: article
In proportion to its population, Cambodia underwent a human catastrophe unparalleled in this century. Out of a 1970 population of probably near 7,100,0001 Cambodia probably lost slightly less than 4,000,000 people to war, rebellion, man-made famine, genocide, politicide, and mass murder. The vast majority, almost 3,300,000 men, women, and children (including 35,000 foreigners), were murdered within the years 1970 to 1980 by successive governments and guerrilla groups. Most of these, a likely near 2,400,000, were murdered by the communist Khmer Rouge.

The Khmer Rouge were fanatical communists who wanted to establish the most advanced and purist form of communism in the world.....

Source: https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP4.HTM

« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 09:26:02 am by Sighlass »
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #324 on: December 19, 2017, 09:06:53 am »
Ya'll hear a funny noise?

Sort of a tortured scream?

Offline Restored

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #325 on: December 19, 2017, 09:52:09 am »
It could be the sound of a man banging his head against a wall, trying to make a headache go away.

But this DNA thing is garbage because the only way we know these men are gay is that they told us.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #326 on: December 19, 2017, 09:58:41 am »
It could be the sound of a man banging his head against a wall, trying to make a headache go away.

But this DNA thing is garbage because the only way we know these men are gay is that they told us.

No, that's not necessarily true.  There are objective measures as well.

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #327 on: December 19, 2017, 11:52:34 am »
No, that's not necessarily true.  There are objective measures as well.

I am still all ears.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #328 on: December 19, 2017, 12:11:46 pm »
Quote
In recent years, scientists have found that sexual orientation is related to a wide range of physical features. Among other things, studies have reported that sexual orientation is linked to facial symmetry, finger length ratios (specifically, the length of the second digit compared to the fourth digit), as well as which hand is dominant. A new study published in the Journal of Sex Research suggests that height is one additional physical feature we should add to this growing list, at least for men....https://www.lehmiller.com/blog/2016/2/18/study-gay-men-are-shorter-on-average-compared-to-straight-men

If the term sexual orientation is used to describe a pattern of arousal and attraction1, then genital assessment has high face validity for studying sexual orientation in men. Neuroimaging, however, may have a variety of methodological advantages, including the potential for greater sensitivity in detecting motivational responses to stimuli that are psychologically significant yet unlikely to result in noticeable physiological changes9 or even subjective responses10. Even with briefly-presented erotic pictures, fMRI has demonstrated a high degree of sensitivity and specificity in measuring sexual orientation11,12,13....https://www.nature.com/articles/srep41314

Can Sex Differences in Science Be Tied to the Long Reach of Prenatal Hormones? Brain Organization Theory, Digit Ratio (2D/4D), and Sex Differences in Preferences and Cognition
Jeffrey Valla and Stephen J. Ceci
Author information â–º Copyright and License information â–º
The publisher's final edited version of this article is available at Perspect Psychol Sci
See other articles in PMC that cite the published article.
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Abstract

Brain organization theory posits a cascade of physiological and behavioral changes initiated and shaped by prenatal hormones. Recently, this theory has been associated with outcomes including gendered toy preference, 2D/4D digit ratio, personality characteristics, sexual orientation, and cognitive profile (spatial, verbal, and mathematical abilities). We examine the evidence for this claim, focusing on 2D/4D and its putative role as a biomarker for organizational features that influence cognitive abilities/interests predisposing males toward mathematically and spatially intensive careers. Although massive support exists for early brain organization theory overall, there are myriad inconsistencies, alternative explanations, and outright contradictions that must be addressed while still taking the entire theory into account. Like a fractal within the larger theory, the 2D/4D hypothesis mirrors this overall support on a smaller scale while likewise suffering from inconsistencies (positive, negative, and sex-dependent correlations), alternative explanations (2D/4D related to spatial preferences rather than abilities per se), and contradictions (feminine 2D/4D in men associated with higher spatial ability). Using the debate over brain organization theory as the theoretical stage, we focus on 2D/4D evidence as an increasingly important player on this stage, a demonstrative case in point of the evidential complexities of the broader debate, and an increasingly important topic in its own right....https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3230041/

Hand asymmetry in heterosexual and homosexual men and women: relationship to 2D:4D digit ratios and other sexually dimorphic anatomical traits.
Martin JT1, Puts DA, Breedlove SM.
Author information
Abstract

Sexual differentiation leads to the development of distinctive anatomical structures (e.g., gonads and genitalia); it also produces less obvious anatomical shifts in brain, bones, muscles, etc. This study is a retrospective analysis of growth patterns in the hands in relation to sex and sexual orientation. Using data from three published studies, we analyzed four hand traits in adults: hand width, hand length, second digit length, and fourth digit length. Using these measurements, we derived estimates of trait laterality (directional asymmetry or DA) and developmental instability (fluctuating asymmetry or FA). High FA is a putative indicator of interference with the cellular and molecular mechanisms regulating development. We focused on how these derived variables were related to sex, sexual orientation, and putative markers of early sex steroid exposure (e.g., the second to fourth digit ratio or 2D:4D). Our data point to three principal conclusions. First, individual differences in DA appeared to be a major source of variation in the 2D:4D ratio. The 2D:4D ratios of heterosexual men differed depending on whether they had leftward or rightward DA in their digits. Homosexual women showed the same pattern. Individuals with leftward DA in both digits had lower 2D:4D ratios than those with rightward DA. This effect was absent in heterosexual women and homosexual men. This led to sex differences in 2D:4D and sexual orientation differences in 2D:4D in the leftward DA group, but not in the rightward DA group. The second conclusion was that DA in digit length and hand width varied with sex; women were more likely to have rightward asymmetry than men. Homosexual men and women were generally sex typical in DA. The third conclusion was that homosexuality is unlikely to be a result of increased developmental instability. Although limited in scope, the present evidence actually suggests that homosexuals have lower FA than heterosexuals, raising the question of whether the positive fitness components associated with low FA may contribute to selection that maintains homosexuality in a population....https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18161017




Offline aligncare

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #329 on: December 19, 2017, 12:44:30 pm »


Thanks for posting. The handful of gays I’ve worked with in the medical field had behavioral attributes and physical characteristics that screamed “I’m gay!” Everything from effeminate appearance to high voice.

So let me get this straight. Homosexuality is just learned behavior? Is the fashion and decorating sense exhibited by gays also learned? Or, do men innately know how to combine fabric and wall colors to create a cozy setting, and also know exactly where to place the ottoman?

Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #330 on: December 19, 2017, 12:46:08 pm »
In recent years, scientists have found that sexual orientation is related to a wide range of physical features. Among other things, studies have reported that sexual orientation is linked to facial symmetry, finger length ratios (specifically, the length of the second digit compared to the fourth digit), as well as which hand is dominant. A new study published in the Journal of Sex Research suggests that height is one additional physical feature we should add to this growing list, at least for men....https://www.lehmiller.com/blog/2016/2/18/study-gay-men-are-shorter-on-average-compared-to-straight-men

If the term sexual orientation is used to describe a pattern of arousal and attraction1, then genital assessment has high face validity for studying sexual orientation in men. Neuroimaging, however, may have a variety of methodological advantages, including the potential for greater sensitivity in detecting motivational responses to stimuli that are psychologically significant yet unlikely to result in noticeable physiological changes9 or even subjective responses10. Even with briefly-presented erotic pictures, fMRI has demonstrated a high degree of sensitivity and specificity in measuring sexual orientation11,12,13....https://www.nature.com/articles/srep41314

Can Sex Differences in Science Be Tied to the Long Reach of Prenatal Hormones? Brain Organization Theory, Digit Ratio (2D/4D), and Sex Differences in Preferences and Cognition
Jeffrey Valla and Stephen J. Ceci
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The publisher's final edited version of this article is available at Perspect Psychol Sci
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Abstract

Brain organization theory posits a cascade of physiological and behavioral changes initiated and shaped by prenatal hormones. Recently, this theory has been associated with outcomes including gendered toy preference, 2D/4D digit ratio, personality characteristics, sexual orientation, and cognitive profile (spatial, verbal, and mathematical abilities). We examine the evidence for this claim, focusing on 2D/4D and its putative role as a biomarker for organizational features that influence cognitive abilities/interests predisposing males toward mathematically and spatially intensive careers. Although massive support exists for early brain organization theory overall, there are myriad inconsistencies, alternative explanations, and outright contradictions that must be addressed while still taking the entire theory into account. Like a fractal within the larger theory, the 2D/4D hypothesis mirrors this overall support on a smaller scale while likewise suffering from inconsistencies (positive, negative, and sex-dependent correlations), alternative explanations (2D/4D related to spatial preferences rather than abilities per se), and contradictions (feminine 2D/4D in men associated with higher spatial ability). Using the debate over brain organization theory as the theoretical stage, we focus on 2D/4D evidence as an increasingly important player on this stage, a demonstrative case in point of the evidential complexities of the broader debate, and an increasingly important topic in its own right....https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3230041/

Hand asymmetry in heterosexual and homosexual men and women: relationship to 2D:4D digit ratios and other sexually dimorphic anatomical traits.
Martin JT1, Puts DA, Breedlove SM.
Author information
Abstract

Sexual differentiation leads to the development of distinctive anatomical structures (e.g., gonads and genitalia); it also produces less obvious anatomical shifts in brain, bones, muscles, etc. This study is a retrospective analysis of growth patterns in the hands in relation to sex and sexual orientation. Using data from three published studies, we analyzed four hand traits in adults: hand width, hand length, second digit length, and fourth digit length. Using these measurements, we derived estimates of trait laterality (directional asymmetry or DA) and developmental instability (fluctuating asymmetry or FA). High FA is a putative indicator of interference with the cellular and molecular mechanisms regulating development. We focused on how these derived variables were related to sex, sexual orientation, and putative markers of early sex steroid exposure (e.g., the second to fourth digit ratio or 2D:4D). Our data point to three principal conclusions. First, individual differences in DA appeared to be a major source of variation in the 2D:4D ratio. The 2D:4D ratios of heterosexual men differed depending on whether they had leftward or rightward DA in their digits. Homosexual women showed the same pattern. Individuals with leftward DA in both digits had lower 2D:4D ratios than those with rightward DA. This effect was absent in heterosexual women and homosexual men. This led to sex differences in 2D:4D and sexual orientation differences in 2D:4D in the leftward DA group, but not in the rightward DA group. The second conclusion was that DA in digit length and hand width varied with sex; women were more likely to have rightward asymmetry than men. Homosexual men and women were generally sex typical in DA. The third conclusion was that homosexuality is unlikely to be a result of increased developmental instability. Although limited in scope, the present evidence actually suggests that homosexuals have lower FA than heterosexuals, raising the question of whether the positive fitness components associated with low FA may contribute to selection that maintains homosexuality in a population....https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18161017


'Conclusions' are not FACTS. They are Inferences.

There's nothing slam dunk definite in any of these papers.

Theory, May Have, Suggests?

Junk Science papers are crawling in these terms.

All they're good for is submitting to funders as 'Research Is Promising' BS on Grant Applications.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #331 on: December 19, 2017, 01:14:26 pm »
Thanks for posting. The handful of gays I’ve worked with in the medical field had behavioral attributes and physical characteristics that screamed “I’m gay!” Everything from effeminate appearance to high voice.
These same types now easily can call themselves 'transgender' so they alone can decide whether they are girls or boys.

I just watched a girls' volleyball match between Florida and Nebraska in which Florida had one of these types.  It was a man's build and features but he/she/it called himself/herself/itself a girl. 

Absolutely not fair in womens' sports to have a biological man competing with women who physiologically are built weaker.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #332 on: December 19, 2017, 02:01:15 pm »
These same types now easily can call themselves 'transgender' so they alone can decide whether they are girls or boys.

I just watched a girls' volleyball match between Florida and Nebraska in which Florida had one of these types.  It was a man's build and features but he/she/it called himself/herself/itself a girl. 

Absolutely not fair in womens' sports to have a biological man competing with women who physiologically are built weaker.

"Transgender" - the perfect ruse for the mindless left that allows a less than talented male athlete become a star because he competes against women.  (Or for a pervert male to go into a girls' bathroom or locker room)

The left is so stinking stupid.  *****rollingeyes*****
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #333 on: December 19, 2017, 02:09:33 pm »
Theory, May Have, Suggests?

Junk Science papers are crawling in these terms.

As does good science.  But I suppose you don't believe in things like gravitational theory, because, well, it's "just a theory".
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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #334 on: December 19, 2017, 02:14:05 pm »

@Sanguine

The 2D:4D stuff has fascinated me, as have things like the hair whorl direction, etc.
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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #335 on: December 19, 2017, 02:22:46 pm »
"Transgender" - the perfect ruse for the mindless left that allows a less than talented male athlete become a star because he competes against women.  (Or for a pervert male to go into a girls' bathroom or locker room)

The left is so stinking stupid.  *****rollingeyes*****

Really??  Looks to me as if they have been mostly whipping our azzes for most of the last century or so!
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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #336 on: December 19, 2017, 02:33:28 pm »
As does good science.  But I suppose you don't believe in things like gravitational theory, because, well, it's "just a theory".

Wouldn't know, not going to dive into that one, since I haven't actually READ the papers themselves.

Unlike this BS of Homosexual Behavior being genetic.
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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #337 on: December 19, 2017, 02:43:54 pm »
No really. They don't take a genetic sample and then ask the person if they are gay. They ask the person. If they answer in the affirmative, they take that as the prime evidence.

There is no "born gay" evidence. It is a personal opinion that seeks data to support it. That's not science. Science would say to someone "I know you think you are gay but the data says otherwise". That will never be allowed.

You may genetically and physically be a male. But if you are pretending you are a female, today's "science" says you are a female.
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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #338 on: December 19, 2017, 02:47:20 pm »
No really. They don't take a genetic sample and then ask the person if they are gay. They ask the person. If they answer in the affirmative, they take that as the prime evidence.

There is no "born gay" evidence. It is a personal opinion that seeks data to support it. That's not science. Science would say to someone "I know you think you are gay but the data says otherwise". That will never be allowed.

You may genetically and physically be a male. But if you are pretending you are a female, today's "science" says you are a female.

And that is NOT science!  It is appeasement.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #339 on: December 19, 2017, 02:51:19 pm »
Really??  Looks to me as if they have been mostly whipping our azzes for most of the last century or so!

Yeah, they have.

And that certainly indicates the level of stupidity that the right has, doesn't it?   :shrug:

The left has controlled universities, they have controlled science (which is now pseudo-science), they have controlled the language and changed meanings of words and phrases, they have controlled the media..... they have controlled everything.

But allowing men into women's bathrooms is stupid, and allowing boys to compete in girls' sports is stupid, and the people who allow this to be done are stupid.

Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #340 on: December 19, 2017, 02:51:22 pm »
As does good science.  But I suppose you don't believe in things like gravitational theory, because, well, it's "just a theory".

You 'Suppose'???

I am not a Physicist. Therefore I am NOT Qualified to offer any opinion on Gravitational Theory one way or the other.

I do not have the requisite mathematical knowledge to even Begin to understand those papers.

All one needs to read and understand the papers taking down the Theory that genes are responsible for any Behaviors is a solid grasp of the English Language, which my detractors here either don't appear to have, or are just too comfy with being too lazy to even Try to read them.

The fault with the Behavioral Genetics assumption is in the intentional distortion, rigging of the experiments themselves, designed to arrive at the Authors/Junk Researcher's pre-determined outcomes.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #341 on: December 19, 2017, 02:53:16 pm »
As does good science.  But I suppose you don't believe in things like gravitational theory, because, well, it's "just a theory".

There is nothing political about gravity.  Therein lies the difference.

When the leftist agenda is driven by what "science" says, and the money for "research" is given by the leftists in government, science is no longer science.

It's politics.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #342 on: December 19, 2017, 02:58:03 pm »
Yeah, they have.

And that certainly indicates the level of stupidity that the right has, doesn't it?   :shrug:

The left has controlled universities, they have controlled science (which is now pseudo-science), they have controlled the language and changed meanings of words and phrases, they have controlled the media..... they have controlled everything.

But allowing men into women's bathrooms is stupid, and allowing boys to compete in girls' sports is stupid, and the people who allow this to be done are stupid.

Yes to all and that would be us!  I note that we now have a man in the Whitehouse who seems to be desperately trying to reverse a lot of that and many so-called conservatives continue to fight him at every turn.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Sanguine

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #343 on: December 19, 2017, 03:07:05 pm »
.....


'Conclusions' are not FACTS. They are Inferences.

There's nothing slam dunk definite in any of these papers.

Theory, May Have, Suggests?

Junk Science papers are crawling in these terms.

All they're good for is submitting to funders as 'Research Is Promising' BS on Grant Applications.

No sir; "settled science" is an oxymoron.  That's how global warming alarmists see science, but that's not how it really works.  You're not actually buying that twaddle are you?

Offline Sanguine

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #344 on: December 19, 2017, 03:07:56 pm »
These same types now easily can call themselves 'transgender' so they alone can decide whether they are girls or boys.

I just watched a girls' volleyball match between Florida and Nebraska in which Florida had one of these types.  It was a man's build and features but he/she/it called himself/herself/itself a girl. 

Absolutely not fair in womens' sports to have a biological man competing with women who physiologically are built weaker.

No - transgender is a whole different thing, and a clear form of mental illness. 

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #345 on: December 19, 2017, 03:08:07 pm »
Yes to all and that would be us!  I note that we now have a man in the Whitehouse who seems to be desperately trying to reverse a lot of that and many so-called conservatives continue to fight him at every turn.

It's odd that he's trying, since he doesn't believe in any of the things we do, but I guess it's better for him to be a hypocritical liberal than an in your face liberal like he was before the election.....  :shrug:
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #346 on: December 19, 2017, 03:10:14 pm »
@Sanguine

The 2D:4D stuff has fascinated me, as have things like the hair whorl direction, etc.

It is fascinating.  Did you know that the whorls thing applies in dogs too?

Offline Suppressed

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #347 on: December 19, 2017, 03:19:18 pm »
It is fascinating.  Did you know that the whorls thing applies in dogs too?

Gay dogs?!  ;-)

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Interesting page on genetic myths: http://udel.edu/~mcdonald/mythhairwhorl.html
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 03:19:35 pm by Suppressed »
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Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #348 on: December 19, 2017, 03:20:22 pm »
No sir; "settled science" is an oxymoron.  That's how global warming alarmists see science, but that's not how it really works.  You're not actually buying that twaddle are you?

Excuse me @Sanguine, but I don't remember using the term 'settled science'.

As for Global Warming Alarmists, and my 'buying that twaddle' Where in the hell did That one come from?
My 'Viking Hunter' High Adventure Alternate History Series is FREE, ALL 3 volumes, at most ebook retailers including Ibooks, Barnes and Noble, Kobo, and more.

In Vol 2 the weapons come out in a winner take all war on two fronts.

Vol 3 opens with the rigged murder trial of the villain in a Viking Court under Viking law to set the stage for the hero's own murder trial.

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Offline driftdiver

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #349 on: December 19, 2017, 03:20:23 pm »
You 'Suppose'???

I am not a Physicist. Therefore I am NOT Qualified to offer any opinion on Gravitational Theory one way or the other.

I do not have the requisite mathematical knowledge to even Begin to understand those papers.

All one needs to read and understand the papers taking down the Theory that genes are responsible for any Behaviors is a solid grasp of the English Language, which my detractors here either don't appear to have, or are just too comfy with being too lazy to even Try to read them.

The fault with the Behavioral Genetics assumption is in the intentional distortion, rigging of the experiments themselves, designed to arrive at the Authors/Junk Researcher's pre-determined outcomes.

@Suppressed @To-Whose-Benefit? @musiclady
Kinda interesting that you picked the theory of gravity.   I'm not expert but then again is anyone?   Can anyone explain gravity? Why it works, how it works, where it works?   Nearly everything we know is due to observation.  Newton tried but it wasn't until Einstein that we had a real theory.  The theory of relativity, or spacetime, is proposed as what causes gravity.

Here on earth if I drop a rock it falls to the ground.   Nearly everywhere else in the universe it would stay exactly where I released it.   At least if our observations are correct.   But then our observations are based on assumptions and the observation of light particles that are billions of years old in some cases.  Observations and a lot of fancy math that could be tossed on its ear with the next observation.
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