Author Topic: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men  (Read 27012 times)

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Offline Restored

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #325 on: December 19, 2017, 02:52:09 pm »
It could be the sound of a man banging his head against a wall, trying to make a headache go away.

But this DNA thing is garbage because the only way we know these men are gay is that they told us.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #326 on: December 19, 2017, 02:58:41 pm »
It could be the sound of a man banging his head against a wall, trying to make a headache go away.

But this DNA thing is garbage because the only way we know these men are gay is that they told us.

No, that's not necessarily true.  There are objective measures as well.

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #327 on: December 19, 2017, 04:52:34 pm »
No, that's not necessarily true.  There are objective measures as well.

I am still all ears.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #328 on: December 19, 2017, 05:11:46 pm »
Quote
In recent years, scientists have found that sexual orientation is related to a wide range of physical features. Among other things, studies have reported that sexual orientation is linked to facial symmetry, finger length ratios (specifically, the length of the second digit compared to the fourth digit), as well as which hand is dominant. A new study published in the Journal of Sex Research suggests that height is one additional physical feature we should add to this growing list, at least for men....https://www.lehmiller.com/blog/2016/2/18/study-gay-men-are-shorter-on-average-compared-to-straight-men

If the term sexual orientation is used to describe a pattern of arousal and attraction1, then genital assessment has high face validity for studying sexual orientation in men. Neuroimaging, however, may have a variety of methodological advantages, including the potential for greater sensitivity in detecting motivational responses to stimuli that are psychologically significant yet unlikely to result in noticeable physiological changes9 or even subjective responses10. Even with briefly-presented erotic pictures, fMRI has demonstrated a high degree of sensitivity and specificity in measuring sexual orientation11,12,13....https://www.nature.com/articles/srep41314

Can Sex Differences in Science Be Tied to the Long Reach of Prenatal Hormones? Brain Organization Theory, Digit Ratio (2D/4D), and Sex Differences in Preferences and Cognition
Jeffrey Valla and Stephen J. Ceci
Author information â–º Copyright and License information â–º
The publisher's final edited version of this article is available at Perspect Psychol Sci
See other articles in PMC that cite the published article.
Go to:
Abstract

Brain organization theory posits a cascade of physiological and behavioral changes initiated and shaped by prenatal hormones. Recently, this theory has been associated with outcomes including gendered toy preference, 2D/4D digit ratio, personality characteristics, sexual orientation, and cognitive profile (spatial, verbal, and mathematical abilities). We examine the evidence for this claim, focusing on 2D/4D and its putative role as a biomarker for organizational features that influence cognitive abilities/interests predisposing males toward mathematically and spatially intensive careers. Although massive support exists for early brain organization theory overall, there are myriad inconsistencies, alternative explanations, and outright contradictions that must be addressed while still taking the entire theory into account. Like a fractal within the larger theory, the 2D/4D hypothesis mirrors this overall support on a smaller scale while likewise suffering from inconsistencies (positive, negative, and sex-dependent correlations), alternative explanations (2D/4D related to spatial preferences rather than abilities per se), and contradictions (feminine 2D/4D in men associated with higher spatial ability). Using the debate over brain organization theory as the theoretical stage, we focus on 2D/4D evidence as an increasingly important player on this stage, a demonstrative case in point of the evidential complexities of the broader debate, and an increasingly important topic in its own right....https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3230041/

Hand asymmetry in heterosexual and homosexual men and women: relationship to 2D:4D digit ratios and other sexually dimorphic anatomical traits.
Martin JT1, Puts DA, Breedlove SM.
Author information
Abstract

Sexual differentiation leads to the development of distinctive anatomical structures (e.g., gonads and genitalia); it also produces less obvious anatomical shifts in brain, bones, muscles, etc. This study is a retrospective analysis of growth patterns in the hands in relation to sex and sexual orientation. Using data from three published studies, we analyzed four hand traits in adults: hand width, hand length, second digit length, and fourth digit length. Using these measurements, we derived estimates of trait laterality (directional asymmetry or DA) and developmental instability (fluctuating asymmetry or FA). High FA is a putative indicator of interference with the cellular and molecular mechanisms regulating development. We focused on how these derived variables were related to sex, sexual orientation, and putative markers of early sex steroid exposure (e.g., the second to fourth digit ratio or 2D:4D). Our data point to three principal conclusions. First, individual differences in DA appeared to be a major source of variation in the 2D:4D ratio. The 2D:4D ratios of heterosexual men differed depending on whether they had leftward or rightward DA in their digits. Homosexual women showed the same pattern. Individuals with leftward DA in both digits had lower 2D:4D ratios than those with rightward DA. This effect was absent in heterosexual women and homosexual men. This led to sex differences in 2D:4D and sexual orientation differences in 2D:4D in the leftward DA group, but not in the rightward DA group. The second conclusion was that DA in digit length and hand width varied with sex; women were more likely to have rightward asymmetry than men. Homosexual men and women were generally sex typical in DA. The third conclusion was that homosexuality is unlikely to be a result of increased developmental instability. Although limited in scope, the present evidence actually suggests that homosexuals have lower FA than heterosexuals, raising the question of whether the positive fitness components associated with low FA may contribute to selection that maintains homosexuality in a population....https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18161017




Offline aligncare

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #329 on: December 19, 2017, 05:44:30 pm »


Thanks for posting. The handful of gays I’ve worked with in the medical field had behavioral attributes and physical characteristics that screamed “I’m gay!” Everything from effeminate appearance to high voice.

So let me get this straight. Homosexuality is just learned behavior? Is the fashion and decorating sense exhibited by gays also learned? Or, do men innately know how to combine fabric and wall colors to create a cozy setting, and also know exactly where to place the ottoman?

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #330 on: December 19, 2017, 05:46:08 pm »
In recent years, scientists have found that sexual orientation is related to a wide range of physical features. Among other things, studies have reported that sexual orientation is linked to facial symmetry, finger length ratios (specifically, the length of the second digit compared to the fourth digit), as well as which hand is dominant. A new study published in the Journal of Sex Research suggests that height is one additional physical feature we should add to this growing list, at least for men....https://www.lehmiller.com/blog/2016/2/18/study-gay-men-are-shorter-on-average-compared-to-straight-men

If the term sexual orientation is used to describe a pattern of arousal and attraction1, then genital assessment has high face validity for studying sexual orientation in men. Neuroimaging, however, may have a variety of methodological advantages, including the potential for greater sensitivity in detecting motivational responses to stimuli that are psychologically significant yet unlikely to result in noticeable physiological changes9 or even subjective responses10. Even with briefly-presented erotic pictures, fMRI has demonstrated a high degree of sensitivity and specificity in measuring sexual orientation11,12,13....https://www.nature.com/articles/srep41314

Can Sex Differences in Science Be Tied to the Long Reach of Prenatal Hormones? Brain Organization Theory, Digit Ratio (2D/4D), and Sex Differences in Preferences and Cognition
Jeffrey Valla and Stephen J. Ceci
Author information â–º Copyright and License information â–º
The publisher's final edited version of this article is available at Perspect Psychol Sci
See other articles in PMC that cite the published article.
Go to:
Abstract

Brain organization theory posits a cascade of physiological and behavioral changes initiated and shaped by prenatal hormones. Recently, this theory has been associated with outcomes including gendered toy preference, 2D/4D digit ratio, personality characteristics, sexual orientation, and cognitive profile (spatial, verbal, and mathematical abilities). We examine the evidence for this claim, focusing on 2D/4D and its putative role as a biomarker for organizational features that influence cognitive abilities/interests predisposing males toward mathematically and spatially intensive careers. Although massive support exists for early brain organization theory overall, there are myriad inconsistencies, alternative explanations, and outright contradictions that must be addressed while still taking the entire theory into account. Like a fractal within the larger theory, the 2D/4D hypothesis mirrors this overall support on a smaller scale while likewise suffering from inconsistencies (positive, negative, and sex-dependent correlations), alternative explanations (2D/4D related to spatial preferences rather than abilities per se), and contradictions (feminine 2D/4D in men associated with higher spatial ability). Using the debate over brain organization theory as the theoretical stage, we focus on 2D/4D evidence as an increasingly important player on this stage, a demonstrative case in point of the evidential complexities of the broader debate, and an increasingly important topic in its own right....https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3230041/

Hand asymmetry in heterosexual and homosexual men and women: relationship to 2D:4D digit ratios and other sexually dimorphic anatomical traits.
Martin JT1, Puts DA, Breedlove SM.
Author information
Abstract

Sexual differentiation leads to the development of distinctive anatomical structures (e.g., gonads and genitalia); it also produces less obvious anatomical shifts in brain, bones, muscles, etc. This study is a retrospective analysis of growth patterns in the hands in relation to sex and sexual orientation. Using data from three published studies, we analyzed four hand traits in adults: hand width, hand length, second digit length, and fourth digit length. Using these measurements, we derived estimates of trait laterality (directional asymmetry or DA) and developmental instability (fluctuating asymmetry or FA). High FA is a putative indicator of interference with the cellular and molecular mechanisms regulating development. We focused on how these derived variables were related to sex, sexual orientation, and putative markers of early sex steroid exposure (e.g., the second to fourth digit ratio or 2D:4D). Our data point to three principal conclusions. First, individual differences in DA appeared to be a major source of variation in the 2D:4D ratio. The 2D:4D ratios of heterosexual men differed depending on whether they had leftward or rightward DA in their digits. Homosexual women showed the same pattern. Individuals with leftward DA in both digits had lower 2D:4D ratios than those with rightward DA. This effect was absent in heterosexual women and homosexual men. This led to sex differences in 2D:4D and sexual orientation differences in 2D:4D in the leftward DA group, but not in the rightward DA group. The second conclusion was that DA in digit length and hand width varied with sex; women were more likely to have rightward asymmetry than men. Homosexual men and women were generally sex typical in DA. The third conclusion was that homosexuality is unlikely to be a result of increased developmental instability. Although limited in scope, the present evidence actually suggests that homosexuals have lower FA than heterosexuals, raising the question of whether the positive fitness components associated with low FA may contribute to selection that maintains homosexuality in a population....https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18161017


'Conclusions' are not FACTS. They are Inferences.

There's nothing slam dunk definite in any of these papers.

Theory, May Have, Suggests?

Junk Science papers are crawling in these terms.

All they're good for is submitting to funders as 'Research Is Promising' BS on Grant Applications.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #331 on: December 19, 2017, 06:14:26 pm »
Thanks for posting. The handful of gays I’ve worked with in the medical field had behavioral attributes and physical characteristics that screamed “I’m gay!” Everything from effeminate appearance to high voice.
These same types now easily can call themselves 'transgender' so they alone can decide whether they are girls or boys.

I just watched a girls' volleyball match between Florida and Nebraska in which Florida had one of these types.  It was a man's build and features but he/she/it called himself/herself/itself a girl. 

Absolutely not fair in womens' sports to have a biological man competing with women who physiologically are built weaker.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #332 on: December 19, 2017, 07:01:15 pm »
These same types now easily can call themselves 'transgender' so they alone can decide whether they are girls or boys.

I just watched a girls' volleyball match between Florida and Nebraska in which Florida had one of these types.  It was a man's build and features but he/she/it called himself/herself/itself a girl. 

Absolutely not fair in womens' sports to have a biological man competing with women who physiologically are built weaker.

"Transgender" - the perfect ruse for the mindless left that allows a less than talented male athlete become a star because he competes against women.  (Or for a pervert male to go into a girls' bathroom or locker room)

The left is so stinking stupid.  *****rollingeyes*****
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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #333 on: December 19, 2017, 07:09:33 pm »
Theory, May Have, Suggests?

Junk Science papers are crawling in these terms.

As does good science.  But I suppose you don't believe in things like gravitational theory, because, well, it's "just a theory".
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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #334 on: December 19, 2017, 07:14:05 pm »

@Sanguine

The 2D:4D stuff has fascinated me, as have things like the hair whorl direction, etc.
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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #335 on: December 19, 2017, 07:22:46 pm »
"Transgender" - the perfect ruse for the mindless left that allows a less than talented male athlete become a star because he competes against women.  (Or for a pervert male to go into a girls' bathroom or locker room)

The left is so stinking stupid.  *****rollingeyes*****

Really??  Looks to me as if they have been mostly whipping our azzes for most of the last century or so!
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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #336 on: December 19, 2017, 07:33:28 pm »
As does good science.  But I suppose you don't believe in things like gravitational theory, because, well, it's "just a theory".

Wouldn't know, not going to dive into that one, since I haven't actually READ the papers themselves.

Unlike this BS of Homosexual Behavior being genetic.
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Offline Restored

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #337 on: December 19, 2017, 07:43:54 pm »
No really. They don't take a genetic sample and then ask the person if they are gay. They ask the person. If they answer in the affirmative, they take that as the prime evidence.

There is no "born gay" evidence. It is a personal opinion that seeks data to support it. That's not science. Science would say to someone "I know you think you are gay but the data says otherwise". That will never be allowed.

You may genetically and physically be a male. But if you are pretending you are a female, today's "science" says you are a female.
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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #338 on: December 19, 2017, 07:47:20 pm »
No really. They don't take a genetic sample and then ask the person if they are gay. They ask the person. If they answer in the affirmative, they take that as the prime evidence.

There is no "born gay" evidence. It is a personal opinion that seeks data to support it. That's not science. Science would say to someone "I know you think you are gay but the data says otherwise". That will never be allowed.

You may genetically and physically be a male. But if you are pretending you are a female, today's "science" says you are a female.

And that is NOT science!  It is appeasement.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #339 on: December 19, 2017, 07:51:19 pm »
Really??  Looks to me as if they have been mostly whipping our azzes for most of the last century or so!

Yeah, they have.

And that certainly indicates the level of stupidity that the right has, doesn't it?   :shrug:

The left has controlled universities, they have controlled science (which is now pseudo-science), they have controlled the language and changed meanings of words and phrases, they have controlled the media..... they have controlled everything.

But allowing men into women's bathrooms is stupid, and allowing boys to compete in girls' sports is stupid, and the people who allow this to be done are stupid.

Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #340 on: December 19, 2017, 07:51:22 pm »
As does good science.  But I suppose you don't believe in things like gravitational theory, because, well, it's "just a theory".

You 'Suppose'???

I am not a Physicist. Therefore I am NOT Qualified to offer any opinion on Gravitational Theory one way or the other.

I do not have the requisite mathematical knowledge to even Begin to understand those papers.

All one needs to read and understand the papers taking down the Theory that genes are responsible for any Behaviors is a solid grasp of the English Language, which my detractors here either don't appear to have, or are just too comfy with being too lazy to even Try to read them.

The fault with the Behavioral Genetics assumption is in the intentional distortion, rigging of the experiments themselves, designed to arrive at the Authors/Junk Researcher's pre-determined outcomes.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #341 on: December 19, 2017, 07:53:16 pm »
As does good science.  But I suppose you don't believe in things like gravitational theory, because, well, it's "just a theory".

There is nothing political about gravity.  Therein lies the difference.

When the leftist agenda is driven by what "science" says, and the money for "research" is given by the leftists in government, science is no longer science.

It's politics.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #342 on: December 19, 2017, 07:58:03 pm »
Yeah, they have.

And that certainly indicates the level of stupidity that the right has, doesn't it?   :shrug:

The left has controlled universities, they have controlled science (which is now pseudo-science), they have controlled the language and changed meanings of words and phrases, they have controlled the media..... they have controlled everything.

But allowing men into women's bathrooms is stupid, and allowing boys to compete in girls' sports is stupid, and the people who allow this to be done are stupid.

Yes to all and that would be us!  I note that we now have a man in the Whitehouse who seems to be desperately trying to reverse a lot of that and many so-called conservatives continue to fight him at every turn.
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"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Sanguine

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #343 on: December 19, 2017, 08:07:05 pm »
.....


'Conclusions' are not FACTS. They are Inferences.

There's nothing slam dunk definite in any of these papers.

Theory, May Have, Suggests?

Junk Science papers are crawling in these terms.

All they're good for is submitting to funders as 'Research Is Promising' BS on Grant Applications.

No sir; "settled science" is an oxymoron.  That's how global warming alarmists see science, but that's not how it really works.  You're not actually buying that twaddle are you?

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #344 on: December 19, 2017, 08:07:56 pm »
These same types now easily can call themselves 'transgender' so they alone can decide whether they are girls or boys.

I just watched a girls' volleyball match between Florida and Nebraska in which Florida had one of these types.  It was a man's build and features but he/she/it called himself/herself/itself a girl. 

Absolutely not fair in womens' sports to have a biological man competing with women who physiologically are built weaker.

No - transgender is a whole different thing, and a clear form of mental illness. 

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #345 on: December 19, 2017, 08:08:07 pm »
Yes to all and that would be us!  I note that we now have a man in the Whitehouse who seems to be desperately trying to reverse a lot of that and many so-called conservatives continue to fight him at every turn.

It's odd that he's trying, since he doesn't believe in any of the things we do, but I guess it's better for him to be a hypocritical liberal than an in your face liberal like he was before the election.....  :shrug:
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #346 on: December 19, 2017, 08:10:14 pm »
@Sanguine

The 2D:4D stuff has fascinated me, as have things like the hair whorl direction, etc.

It is fascinating.  Did you know that the whorls thing applies in dogs too?

Offline Suppressed

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #347 on: December 19, 2017, 08:19:18 pm »
It is fascinating.  Did you know that the whorls thing applies in dogs too?

Gay dogs?!  ;-)

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Interesting page on genetic myths: http://udel.edu/~mcdonald/mythhairwhorl.html
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 08:19:35 pm by Suppressed »
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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #348 on: December 19, 2017, 08:20:22 pm »
No sir; "settled science" is an oxymoron.  That's how global warming alarmists see science, but that's not how it really works.  You're not actually buying that twaddle are you?

Excuse me @Sanguine, but I don't remember using the term 'settled science'.

As for Global Warming Alarmists, and my 'buying that twaddle' Where in the hell did That one come from?
My 'Viking Hunter' High Adventure Alternate History Series is FREE, ALL 3 volumes, at most ebook retailers including Ibooks, Barnes and Noble, Kobo, and more.

In Vol 2 the weapons come out in a winner take all war on two fronts.

Vol 3 opens with the rigged murder trial of the villain in a Viking Court under Viking law to set the stage for the hero's own murder trial.

http://wulfanson.blogspot.com

Offline driftdiver

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Re: New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men
« Reply #349 on: December 19, 2017, 08:20:23 pm »
You 'Suppose'???

I am not a Physicist. Therefore I am NOT Qualified to offer any opinion on Gravitational Theory one way or the other.

I do not have the requisite mathematical knowledge to even Begin to understand those papers.

All one needs to read and understand the papers taking down the Theory that genes are responsible for any Behaviors is a solid grasp of the English Language, which my detractors here either don't appear to have, or are just too comfy with being too lazy to even Try to read them.

The fault with the Behavioral Genetics assumption is in the intentional distortion, rigging of the experiments themselves, designed to arrive at the Authors/Junk Researcher's pre-determined outcomes.

@Suppressed @To-Whose-Benefit? @musiclady
Kinda interesting that you picked the theory of gravity.   I'm not expert but then again is anyone?   Can anyone explain gravity? Why it works, how it works, where it works?   Nearly everything we know is due to observation.  Newton tried but it wasn't until Einstein that we had a real theory.  The theory of relativity, or spacetime, is proposed as what causes gravity.

Here on earth if I drop a rock it falls to the ground.   Nearly everywhere else in the universe it would stay exactly where I released it.   At least if our observations are correct.   But then our observations are based on assumptions and the observation of light particles that are billions of years old in some cases.  Observations and a lot of fancy math that could be tossed on its ear with the next observation.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.