Author Topic: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump  (Read 20604 times)

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Oceander

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #100 on: May 30, 2017, 05:21:25 pm »
Respectfully, no you are not.  You can keep telling yourself you're acting out of a superior moral compass; but, in truth, you're simply acting out.

Ahhh.  So loyalty to an individual trumps loyalty to the country (no pun intended).  No, sorry, that's the game leftists play.  You can play it if you want to, but I won't.  I put loyalty to country and principles above loyalty to any individual, and I will freely criticize an individual if I feel it's warranted. 

You can place your undivided loyalties at the feet of Donald Trump; I won't.  I don't worship a human being. 

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #101 on: May 30, 2017, 05:26:13 pm »
When somebody refers to my President as "The Orange Baboon"....."The Orange Julius", etc., that's a gratuitous attack.

It's happens here HOURLY.

I'd like to see that nonsense stopped, and I refuse to partake.  I happen to really like the folks on both sides, and would like to stay friends.  That's more important than any political point I could make.  Right, friend?
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #102 on: May 30, 2017, 05:28:42 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia

We've both said this dozens of times in here going back a year.   Damned right, it's the $$$ quote.     

 888high58888 @DCPatriot

Offline Night Hides Not

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #103 on: May 30, 2017, 05:29:27 pm »
Maybe some NeverTrumpers fit Prager's model, but he has completely misunderstood NeverTrumpers like me.  And Prager's snarky appeal "Report for duty" doesn't fit me.  I am as supportive of our POTUS as I could possibly be under the circumstances of what I know about Trump and about our Constitutional Republic.  I still say that a profoundly dishonorable fellow like Trump never should have been nominated in the first place.  His nomination is the worst-ever black mark against the Republican Party, and by extension, against our Republic. I will never change that opinion.

In short, although Dennis Prager professes to be trying to understand NeverTrumpers, I don't believe him.  Heck, Prager doesn't even understand himself.

Prager's theory that NeverTrumpers don't understand that we are in a civil war is asinine by way of oversimplification.  Virtually all of the Republicans I personally know believe that we are embroiled in a civil war that could descend into widespread massive violence.  It would be even worse with HRC in the White House, but this does not mean that Trump is the savior of the Republic.  We are in terrible trouble as a nation, and federal policy changes will not correct that.  The problem is that our nation as a whole is weirdly rotten.     

Here's my take: Prager is syndicated on Salem Radio, home of "The (Wrong) Answer" in Dallas, 660 AM. This station no longer has ratings above a point, it's fallen below the top 35 stations in Dallas/Fort Worth. Salem has become THE Safe Space for Trump supporters. With Prager falling in line, 660 AM's lineup is now exclusively riding the Trump Train: Mark Davis, Mike Gallagher, Prager, Hannity, Larry Elder, and (sadly) John David Wells.

http://ratings.radio-online.com/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb024

Jan - 1.2
Feb - 1.3
Mar - 1.1
Apr - 0.9

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #104 on: May 30, 2017, 05:32:34 pm »
Maybe, but not on this scale.

Conservatives lost the fight when Obama was elected and lost it again when he was re-elected.  We can try to figure that out.  We could say we had horrible candidates against him and it's true ... we could have selected better.
With two of the more liberal candidates the GOP could muster. Conservatives didn't lose to Obama, they lost to McCain and Romney.
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But this time ... just as the ominous picture of Hillary taking over from Obama and plunging us deeper in socialism, big government, corruption, tolerance of illegal immigrants and much more horror .... this time.  This time we selected the worst possible candidate in the eyes of many conservatives, one who didn't stand a snowball's chance in the hot place.
Yep, why break the pattern?
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But he won.  And the people who hated him during the primaries... the people who could tell you every despicable thing he'd ever said or done ... the people who fed on that hatred,
Actually, I would have to sit and think about that list, and I'm sure I'd miss a few things. There was so much of it. But I could generalize, that simply enough, his campaign thrived on falsehoods about the other candidates and anger harbored by Republicans who were tired of nominating people with liberal track records and losing. Now that wasn't hatred of a man, but outrage that that prevailed, and a warning that someone who prevaricated his way into the job just might continue that pattern of behaviour.
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Well, some of those people couldn't give that hatred up.  I'm not saying those people should have granted him sainthood just because he became President.  I'm not even saying they should have given up fact checking his statements and actions.
No, you are saying people hate Trump. I don't hate Trump. If he was all alone, across the street from me, and on fire, I would cross the street to put him out, and do so promptly. There are others, well, I'd just have to hold it a while.
Sainthood is granted by the Church, after careful review, posthumously. I'm not worrying about that any time soon. We aren't talking Sister Teresa, here. Besides those decisions are above my pay grade.
And while it is nice to have your permission to criticize him, I don't need it. You have no authority to deprive me of my God-given Right to formulate my own opinions and to express them, just as you have your right to formulate and express your opinions. Neither of us granted the other that right, neither of us has the authority to remove it.
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I am saying that the Left is down but not out.  They are fighting for their lives and they fight dirty.
Sure they are. They have invested have a hundred years in this subversion of this country, and they are that close. They overreached, though, another couple of generations and few would remember even a taste of the Liberty we have lost, the freedom sacrificed on the altars of convenience and expediency. That may yet prove their downfall. Grandparents can still recall the days when they could put a check and an order form in the mail and buy a gun, and their grandparents could buy any gun, and that was all the paperwork required. Grandchildren are in awe of that one alone, and there is so much else.
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There are too many conservatives who are on their side in this fight.
I think I see your problem. You are looking at this as if there are only two sides, the inside and the outside. If you aren't gaga over Trump, you are on the outside and the enemy.

That's a danger of cults of personality. You forget who your friends are.

So, to help, Conservatives are the ones who will criticize Trump for being too liberal. The Liberals (a common enemy, if you will just quit attacking Conservatives) are over on the other side, fighting for socialism and criticizing Trump for being too conservative. We don't make that mistake, so we really should be easy to spot if you read what we say and think about it for even a moment.
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I'm not one of them.
No conservative is on the side of the liberals or the socialists. Just some are more liberal than others, and willing to settle for less. We'll keep reminding those folks that this is just a finger in the dike, not a flood control solution, and advocate for more Conservative measures, from all of government, at least that which is Constitutionally Authorized to exist.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #105 on: May 30, 2017, 05:32:59 pm »
I'd like to see that nonsense stopped, and I refuse to partake.  I happen to really like the folks on both sides, and would like to stay friends.  That's more important than any political point I could make.  Right, friend?

I see some effort, perhaps a struggling effort at times, of some folks trying to maintain a conversation.  I miss that.  I miss it something fierce. 
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #106 on: May 30, 2017, 05:35:08 pm »
Prager and many other Trump people refuse to accept it when we say, no, it isn't about our egos or a desire to be right.  I guess it gives them satisfaction to think otherwise. So...go to it, I suppose.
Bingo! I believe the whole 'gotta be right' thing is just so much projection.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline INVAR

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #107 on: May 30, 2017, 05:35:31 pm »
Here's my take: Prager is syndicated on Salem Radio, home of "The (Wrong) Answer" in Dallas, 660 AM. This station no longer has ratings above a point, it's fallen below the top 35 stations in Dallas/Fort Worth. Salem has become THE Safe Space for Trump supporters. With Prager falling in line, 660 AM's lineup is now exclusively riding the Trump Train: Mark Davis, Mike Gallagher, Prager, Hannity, Larry Elder, and (sadly) John David Wells.

http://ratings.radio-online.com/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb024

Jan - 1.2
Feb - 1.3
Mar - 1.1
Apr - 0.9

When one considers the collapse of Fox News in conjunction with what you posted about radio ratings, one has to really wonder if the downward spiral was directly caused by the firing of the Great Moderate/Populist O'Reilly.

I think there is possibly a lot more fallout from people growing tired of the apologetics fro Trump all the time than anger over the sacking of BOR.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #108 on: May 30, 2017, 05:41:37 pm »
Here's my take: Prager is syndicated on Salem Radio, home of "The (Wrong) Answer" in Dallas, 660 AM. This station no longer has ratings above a point, it's fallen below the top 35 stations in Dallas/Fort Worth. Salem has become THE Safe Space for Trump supporters. With Prager falling in line, 660 AM's lineup is now exclusively riding the Trump Train: Mark Davis, Mike Gallagher, Prager, Hannity, Larry Elder, and (sadly) John David Wells.

http://ratings.radio-online.com/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb024

Jan - 1.2
Feb - 1.3
Mar - 1.1
Apr - 0.9
In a way that should have been predictable. SO much of Trumps support fell into one of two camps. First, the 'I don't want Hillary camp" and the "I'm angry as hell and I'm not going to take it any more' camp. By his election both of those groups have been placated. Hillary isn't in, and The Donald is going to take care of it. The post election hangover is gone and people go back to worrying about 'their team' in season. The political playoffs are done for another 3+ years.

That's part of the problem, of course. If people paid attention to what is going on in D.C. they'd be pi$$ed off year round, more than not. At least there has been some good news here and there, which is better than the previous administration, but there is always room for more.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #109 on: May 30, 2017, 05:45:08 pm »
@DiogenesLamp Actually, they existed prior to the war, they were part of the political influences that led to the war, and they just used it like a rented mule to grow in power.


I have no quarrel with this point.   Yes,  the power structure of the North East started growing in the 1820s,  and in no small part as a result of the Navigation act of 1817 which gave them a near monopoly on shipping. 

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #110 on: May 30, 2017, 05:46:39 pm »
I see some effort, perhaps a struggling effort at times, of some folks trying to maintain a conversation.  I miss that.  I miss it something fierce.

I guess we must be the candle that lights the way, Lando.  Here...you'll need one of these.   :beer:
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #111 on: May 30, 2017, 05:47:14 pm »
What turned Teddy around was his time in North Dakota, ranching. He got toughened up and learned a lot about life. He took that experience back with him. Not too many other politicians have had callouses on their hands.


You know,  I had never thought about that.   That makes very good sense,  because he was expected to be just another New York high society slob making sure the "right people"  kept getting their bread buttered by the government.   


He turned out to be very different than what his high society supporters had expected him to be.   Real world life wakes people up.   Good point. 



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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #112 on: May 30, 2017, 05:49:25 pm »
A 'liberal broadcasting system' would have null effect on a people who were not ignorant of their cultural heritage and biblical morality.  You cannot blame the prince and power of the airwaves for a people who willingly chose to become ignorant of the very things necessary to keep them a free people.



I think you and I have discussed this before.   I don't think you have a realistic view of what it takes to resist assertions from broadcast-dom.    It simply isn't plausible for the people to keep themselves informed outside of the normal broadcasting apparatus. 




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Offline goatprairie

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #113 on: May 30, 2017, 05:49:51 pm »
Bingo! I believe the whole 'gotta be right' thing is just so much projection.
The conceit of the Trump supporters (and promulgated by the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, Ingraham, and now , unfortunately Prager) is that all the people who do not bow before His Exalted Orangeness are all elites who live on the EC in our spacious mansions with our fleet of Cadillacs and Gulfstream jet opposed to the common rabble.  Many of us ARE!!! the common rabble.  We believe in conservative principles and character. We see very little of that in Trump. That's why we support Trump when he's right (I voted for him), and oppose him when he's wrong. He might be great for populism, but he's giving principled conservatism a black mark.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 05:52:13 pm by goatprairie »

Offline Emjay

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #114 on: May 30, 2017, 05:52:33 pm »
With two of the more liberal candidates the GOP could muster. Conservatives didn't lose to Obama, they lost to McCain and Romney.  Yep, why break the pattern?  Actually, I would have to sit and think about that list, and I'm sure I'd miss a few things. There was so much of it. But I could generalize, that simply enough, his campaign thrived on falsehoods about the other candidates and anger harbored by Republicans who were tired of nominating people with liberal track records and losing. Now that wasn't hatred of a man, but outrage that that prevailed, and a warning that someone who prevaricated his way into the job just might continue that pattern of behaviour. No, you are saying people hate Trump. I don't hate Trump. If he was all alone, across the street from me, and on fire, I would cross the street to put him out, and do so promptly. There are others, well, I'd just have to hold it a while.
Sainthood is granted by the Church, after careful review, posthumously. I'm not worrying about that any time soon. We aren't talking Sister Teresa, here. Besides those decisions are above my pay grade.
And while it is nice to have your permission to criticize him, I don't need it. You have no authority to deprive me of my God-given Right to formulate my own opinions and to express them, just as you have your right to formulate and express your opinions. Neither of us granted the other that right, neither of us has the authority to remove it.  Sure they are. They have invested have a hundred years in this subversion of this country, and they are that close. They overreached, though, another couple of generations and few would remember even a taste of the Liberty we have lost, the freedom sacrificed on the altars of convenience and expediency. That may yet prove their downfall. Grandparents can still recall the days when they could put a check and an order form in the mail and buy a gun, and their grandparents could buy any gun, and that was all the paperwork required. Grandchildren are in awe of that one alone, and there is so much else. I think I see your problem. You are looking at this as if there are only two sides, the inside and the outside. If you aren't gaga over Trump, you are on the outside and the enemy.

That's a danger of cults of personality. You forget who your friends are.

So, to help, Conservatives are the ones who will criticize Trump for being too liberal. The Liberals (a common enemy, if you will just quit attacking Conservatives) are over on the other side, fighting for socialism and criticizing Trump for being too conservative. We don't make that mistake, so we really should be easy to spot if you read what we say and think about it for even a moment. No conservative is on the side of the liberals or the socialists. Just some are more liberal than others, and willing to settle for less. We'll keep reminding those folks that this is just a finger in the dike, not a flood control solution, and advocate for more Conservative measures, from all of government, at least that which is Constitutionally Authorized to exist.

Er, I respect your right to think I gave you any sort of permission.

But I didn't.

I just see leftists going all out against a fairly easy target; i.e. Donald Trump.  You would think The Donald actually does enough stuff for the media to criticize, but no, they have to make stuff up.

And when they do make things up, I've gotta say that some trump haters jump on it with what I can only describe as glee.

I'm just wishing they would only criticize what he actually does or doesn't do and that they would examine their motives.

I don't want Trump to be impeached or nagged out of office.  What then?  An opening for the libs?  Do we want that?
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #115 on: May 30, 2017, 05:53:55 pm »

Culturally, we're getting our collective backside kicked. The only cultural difference between left and right now is that the right's quieter about their support for the agenda that dare not speak its name.



Most sensible thing i've seen from you in awhile.   Exactly right.   And the reason we are losing the culture war is Television controlled by liberals in Los Angeles and New York. 




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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #116 on: May 30, 2017, 05:54:00 pm »
See @goatprairie .... this right here is not helpful and serves only to insult.  Just thought you'd like to know.

The conceit of the Trump supporters (and promulgated by the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, Ingraham, and now , unfortunately Prager) is that all the people who do not bow before His Exalted Orangeness

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #117 on: May 30, 2017, 05:54:55 pm »
No, the article is not hilarious.  It is spot on.  But do tell us @roamer_1 , how is it conservative to stand down in such a civil war as we are in ---- and sit in a corner snickering and hoping our general fails?  Which conservative principle is this?

Your 'side' and your 'general' are not Conservative. I have told you before, I have no dog in the hunt.
And I don't hope he fails, other than the liberal parts.
I just don't expect much (other than the liberal parts).
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 05:55:29 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #118 on: May 30, 2017, 05:55:57 pm »

The real war is an intellectual insurgency.



Agree with this and the rest of what you wrote. 

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Online roamer_1

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #119 on: May 30, 2017, 05:59:30 pm »
Let me help you .... Donald Trump won the nomination.  Donald Trump dropped an electoral house on the wicked witch.  You were wrong.  I hope you find some peace with this truth and get back in the right fight.

ROTFLMAO!!!

The Won.

Really?

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #120 on: May 30, 2017, 06:01:23 pm »
Much of that, especially Congressional and state house wins, comes from gerrymandering that stemmed from the initial 2010 backlash to Obama, the stimulus and ACA. We probably won't be quite so lucky in 2020.

Especially if (or when) the GOP fails to repeal ACA like they promised to do... and instead offers up their still socialist, liberallite version.  When it then implodes and collapses, it will be all on them, not the Democrats.  And yes, Democrats will use that to win in 2020.

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We are having some incremental success at the state level in governorships. Scott Walker, Paul LePage and Rick Snyder have done yeoman's work in restoring some fiscal sanity to the northeast and midwest, and they've managed to get re-elected.

I would say it's more than incremental.  But potato/potahtoe and all that.

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Culturally, we're getting our collective backside kicked. The only cultural difference between left and right now is that the right's quieter about their support for the agenda that dare not speak its name.

I think that culturally, the vast majority of non-leftists voted against the cultural and moral rot that the left is bringing to America.  That's just one aspect of what they voted against, of course.  Still, an important one.  Perhaps we're not getting kicked as badly as it appears....?  I'd like to think so.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #121 on: May 30, 2017, 06:11:19 pm »
I see some effort, perhaps a struggling effort at times, of some folks trying to maintain a conversation.  I miss that.  I miss it something fierce.
"When somebody refers to my President as "The Orange Baboon"....."The Orange Julius", etc., that's a gratuitous attack.

It's happens here HOURLY." DC Patriot.

Then Cyber Liberty agreed with the desire to end such talk. Lando makes three, and I make four.

Now it is up to the Mods to enforce it.

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Offline the_doc

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #122 on: May 30, 2017, 06:14:35 pm »

I think that culturally, the vast majority of non-leftists voted against the cultural and moral rot that the left is bringing to America.  That's just one aspect of what they voted against, of course.  Still, an important one.  Perhaps we're not getting kicked as badly as it appears....?  I'd like to think so.

I heartily agree.  However, I would add another wrinkle:  there is a non-trivial sense in which the cultural/moral rot of the nation as a whole, including the cultural/moral rot of so-called conservatives--is producing the Leftists (and also making them more and more dangerous).

Most of today's conservatives don't talk much about this.  But it is the conscientious reason why I refused to vote for Trump.

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #123 on: May 30, 2017, 06:17:49 pm »
The battle is between the globalists Marxists that desire a free flow of capital, goods and people across a border-less world.  And nationalists that wish to preserve language, culture and country. 

No, almost right, but it is fight between globalists and marxists and national socialists - NONE of which are Conservative.

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The battle has nothing to do with conservative vrs liberal. D vrs R is so 20th century. Wake up this is the 21st century and things have changed.

Riiight. That you think like that should tell you something.
It certainly suggests that the Conservative paradigm is old news and not necessary.
So likewise, Conservatives.

Have at it then. you've made your bed and picked your bedfellows.

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If you oppose Trump and his America First agenda you are siding with the uniparty and the billionaire donor class that cares nothing about you or the country. 

FALSE. And insipid.

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Just as the election was in fact a binary choice between Hillary and Trump

False again, and logically fallacious.

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the war is a binary battle between globalists and nationalists and right now the globalists are winning big time.

So what? Who cares which socialists win?
You think your socialism is BETTER than the globalists? It isn't. It's the same thing, on a longer timeline.
Reject Conservatism, and what you get (and what you are fighting for) is something else.
Nationalism without Conservatism is not a good thing.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 06:20:03 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump
« Reply #124 on: May 30, 2017, 06:19:00 pm »
"When somebody refers to my President as "The Orange Baboon"....."The Orange Julius", etc., that's a gratuitous attack.

It's happens here HOURLY." DC Patriot.

Then Cyber Liberty agreed with the desire to end such talk. Lando makes three, and I make four.

Now it is up to the Mods to enforce it.

Your hands aren't clean in this mess either.  Neither are the people you're backslapping.

I would advise you to make sure your backyard is clean before you start peering over other people's fences.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!