Why Conservatives Still Attack Trump

[Emjay]

 

I think the Mods here have been extremely reluctant to be overbearing or to play what you call the Zot game.

I've only seen a couple of threads locked and only a couple of admonitions, two of which were directed at me, but, hey, I'm okay with it ...

[Suppressed]

Maybe some NeverTrumpers fit Prager's model, but he has completely misunderstood NeverTrumpers like me.

What's sad is that I used to agree with nearly everything Prager said. 

But while I agree with him that we're in a terrible fight, I disagree with him that backing a liberal blindly is the way to advance conservatism.  I keep my eyes open and give credit where due...but I don't close my eyes to the many, many problems.

And when the Trump Brigade throws around the "you were wrong" line, they can leave me out...as I posted openly that I thought he could win. 

I oppose his liberalism because I oppose liberalism, not because I can't admit something.

[endicom]

Let's see, lower marginal rates across the board.  Reduction in the capital gains tax.  Increased pre-tax contribution limits to retirement plans.  Made sweeping changes to the estate or "death" tax, raising exemption limits and reducing the nominal rate.  Granted it wasn't a sea-change such as implementing a flat tax, but was quite conservative and focused on individual taxpayer relief.  In fact, Trump's original plan largely mirrored this approach contrary to several of the other candidates who were pushing more structural reform in their proposals.  That's what make's Trumps campaign promise more realistic and easier to achieve, had he actually meant it.

https://taxfoundation.org/looking-back-bush-tax-cuts-fifteen-years-later/

Medicare Part D, TARP, the trillion dollar wars-without-a-plan. Those eventually get paid for.

[Smokin Joe]

I don't think that's true @Weird Tolkienish Figure   I think Trump supporters would like an end to the bickering just as most everyone else on this forum.

Speaking for myself, only, the use of "Orange [fill in the blank]" is no longer an attack on the President, but has mutated into a  personal attack on me, a long time supporter of the President.  Followed closely by the incessant use of the word "worship" when referring to the support given the President---another favorite hot button around here, on most days.

So, all I'm asking for is an end to the orange and worship       I think this is a fair request.

I hope everyone discusses the policies proposed by the President ..... and remembers Briefers who support the President deserve respect, even if another Briefer strongly dislikes the POTUS.

 

No public figure is immune to parody, nicknames, or attack. Period. If you take me calling trump the orange whatever as personal how do you take me calling Hillary "Cankles"? Not offended? Why?  Shouldn't that be just as banned as any derogation of Trump? How about the 'Weiner/Holder' poster images? Will pookie's 'toons be banned? Or only the ones which might gig the president? Where do we draw the line at political censorship?

None of these is a personal attack on a poster, or even a group of posters on this forum. You are free to be offended for him, but not to take it personally in order to silence political speech. I only view this as an attempt to censor discussion, not to keep posters from being attacked.

[Silver Pines]

The responses to Prager's nonsense are rolling out...


http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/448101/dennis-prager-never-trump-conservatives-falls-short


http://theresurgent.com/a-brief-response-to-dennis-prager/


Allahpundit‏
@allahpundit 
D.C. dinner parties must be (censored) amazing to make invites worth so much supposed intellectual treachery


David French‏Verified account @DavidAFrench  42m42 minutes ago
They're nothing compared to the Tennessee dinner parties that made me Never Trump. The combo of catfish and Chardonnay? Worth it.


John Podhoretz‏Verified account @jpodhoretz  1h1 hour ago
 For Dennis Prager, who spent 40 years advocating for a moral frame for American politics, to argue as he argued today is, may i say, ironic


Noah Rothman‏Verified account @NoahCRothman  1h1 hour ago
 Honest conservatives must note Prager U does a valuable service for conservatism, thus displaying more good faith than he did in that piece.


Ross Douthat‏Verified account @DouthatNYT  2h2 hours ago
So what are we being accused of enabling by our criticism of Trump? What precipice will we go over if we fail to hail his every move?


Ross Douthat‏Verified account @DouthatNYT  2h2 hours ago
But now a Hillary presidency is off the table. Neil Gorsuch is on the Supreme Court. The next election is a loooong way away.


Ross Douthat‏Verified account @DouthatNYT  2h2 hours ago
But it just can't be the Flight 93 election every minute of every day of every year of his presidential term.

[INVAR]

I think Trump supporters would like an end to the bickering just as most everyone else on this forum.

I don't buy that for a nanosecond. 

Speaking for myself, only, the use of "Orange [fill in the blank]" is no longer an attack on the President, but has mutated into a  personal attack on me, a long time supporter of the President.  Followed closely by the incessant use of the word "worship" when referring to the support given the President---another favorite hot button around here, on most days.

Kindof like insisting that those of us who refused to surrender our principles to support Trump are an 'enemy of the good'?  That our principles are 'losing positions'?

So, all I'm asking for is an end to the orange and worship       I think this is a fair request.

The moment you people agree to stop calling us Hillary Supporters/Democrats/Coup supporters/Traitors/Enemies/Haters etc., etc., etc - we can discuss terms about what is a 'fair request'.

Briefers who support the President deserve respect, even if another Briefer strongly dislikes the POTUS.

Two-way street there RIV.  Two-way street.

[Cyber Liberty]

Problem is...he likes the whip.

That was supposed to be your mother's and my little secret. 

[Smokin Joe]

Let me guess. You weren't a math major.

Funny how clear the answers are in math. What's the square root of negative one?

Besides these are different principles.

[Silver Pines]

What.... everything that happened here?   What did I miss?

@XenaLee

Oh, it was just lots of fighting--it seemed like more than usual---a couple of threads locked, and some strange outbursts.

[txradioguy]

That was supposed to be your mother's and my little secret. 

Yeah well good reporter that I am...I always uncover the little secrets others want to stay hidden. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

Wow.  You really do just like to argue.  I can't find a shred of peacemaker in you.

Sad.   

[Bigun]

In my view - and I stopped any efforts at peacekeeping awhile back - is it has to start with the members.  I don't want a Mod behind every lamp post or bush around here.  But then, maybe that is the solution.  I hope it isn't.

I still have trouble understanding why supposed adults need moderators in order to have a respectful discussion about anything!

[txradioguy]

None of these is a personal attack on a poster, or even a group of posters on this forum. You are free to be offended for him, but not to take it personally in order to silence political speech. I only view this as an attempt to censor discussion, not to keep posters from being attacked.

@Smokin Joe spot on here.

There's a big difference between referring to Trump as Orange Wonderful or Obama as Jug Ears and telling someone that if they didn't vote for a certain candidate they are a traitor, a Dem plant or a Hillary supporter.

It's as offensive to me as those that equate Trump and Hitler.

[txradioguy]

Wow.  You really do just like to argue.  I can't find a shred of peacemaker in you.

Sad.   

You're willingness to stir the pot and poke him with a stick isn't helping things either.

Not much peacemaker either in you when you do things like that.

Just sayin...

[Cyber Liberty]

Wow.  You really do just like to argue.  I can't find a shred of peacemaker in you.

Sad.   

Have a look at that log in your eye before going around locating specks in others'.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Ross Douthat‏Verified account @DouthatNYT  2h2 hours ago
But now a Hillary presidency is off the table. Neil Gorsuch is on the Supreme Court. The next election is a loooong way away.

That's an excellent point. A hillary Presidency is off the table. The point is officially moot.

And yet the Trumpers continue to use a Hillary Presidency against the Never Trumpers.

[roamer_1]

Maybe, but not on this scale.

Scale? LOL! You guys BARELY won... You drug his fat @ss JUST across the line.
that isn't scale.

In the mean time, TEA Party has overturned almost every office right down to dog catcher, in almost every state, across multiple elections...
THAT is scale.

Conservatives lost the fight when Obama was elected and lost it again when he was re-elected.  We can try to figure that out.  We could say we had horrible candidates against him and it's true ... we could have selected better.

No they didn't. Conservatives were not behind Romney.

But this time ... just as the ominous picture of Hillary taking over from Obama and plunging us deeper in socialism, big government, corruption, tolerance of illegal immigrants and much more horror .... this time.  This time we selected the worst possible candidate in the eyes of many conservatives, one who didn't stand a snowball's chance in the hot place.

No, y'all selected the worst possible candidate again.

But he won.  And the people who hated him during the primaries... the people who could tell you every despicable thing he'd ever said or done ... the people who fed on that hatred,

Well, some of those people couldn't give that hatred up.  I'm not saying those people should have granted him sainthood just because he became President.  I'm not even saying they should have given up fact checking his statements and actions.

Horse crap. It has *nothing* to do with hating the man.

I am saying that the Left is down but not out.  They are fighting for their lives and they fight dirty.

There are too many conservatives who are on their side in this fight.

I'm not one of them.

More baloney.
Conservatives are the polar opposite of liberalism.
The reason they don't stand with you is because you are standing behind a NYC Liberal, mouthing praise for single payer health, obscenely unbalanced budgets, and crony capitalism.

Y'all say you are our ally, but you DO differently.
SOSDD. No different than ever. The first thing sacrificed once the win, is the promise toward principle.

[INVAR]

Wow.  You really do just like to argue.  I can't find a shred of peacemaker in you.

I do not surrender principles to appease those who want us to shut up about them.

[Night Hides Not]

While I do not use those terms to refer to Trump, he IS a public figure and we have a longstanding tradition in this country of ridiculing, lambasting and castigating our elected officials.

I think you need to man-up and embrace the suck of liberty being exercised by other Americans whom you despise who do not view your president with the same eyes you do.


Of course you'd love for the Mods to silence anything negative about Trump.  And make no mistake, that is EXACTLY what you are advocating.  I expect 'gratuitous attack' to be continually regraded to include anything other than blatant praise and acclamation as we've seen on other sites. 

I think the Mods job is to enforce direct gratuitous attacks against other members on this board, not cleanse the site of unwanted opinions of politicians.

Here's why you don't want me as a mod, I'd set up a toll booth on ad hominem attacks:



Not that it would affect you @INVAR...

@mystery-ak : My apologies for the profanity in the gif, but it's a direct quote from the "documentary"... 

[DCPatriot]

You're willingness to stir the pot and poke him with a stick isn't helping things either.

Not much peacemaker either in you when you do things like that.

Just sayin...

Says the gold medal winner when playing "3rd Man In"

just sayin...

[Lando Lincoln]

What then, is the difference between calling Hillary "Cankles" and calling Trump the "Orange Julius"?

Neither are posting here, and the only way either would be seen as a personal attack is if someone was identifying a little too much with the object of derision.

If the derision was aimed at a poster here, that would be a personal attack and out of bounds.

Aimed at a public figure--ANY public figure, well, they are fair game. Otherwise, the next time I see "Lyin' Ted" it better be discussing another candidate's rotten tactics.

I will grant that some people seem to have thin skins for posters on a political forum, but to demand political correctness, especially to supposedly support the guy who ran on abolishing PC seems a bit much.
Just my 0.02 YMMV

I agree Joe.  I can disparage, criticize and call a public figure unkind names (within other boundaries).  That's fair.  There is a line where it can cross over to taunting but... there will always be that, I suppose.  I can't imagine how myst does it.

You are a prudent guy, Joe. 

[DCPatriot]

Above is a classic example to what I was referring.

@INVAR posts his normal defiant screed.

@Right_in_Virginia points out that he doesn't show any signs of being a peacemaker.   Which, if you look at it objectively, is a FACT.

@Cyber Liberty runs in to protect/support Invar with a very sarcastic post.

@txradioguy pulls his normal sh*t



....and here we are with MODS in 3-2-1     


What the hell problem you do you all still have with right-in-virginia?   She fiercely supports Trump in a most respectful way.

She posts according to the tone of the post to which she is replying.

Just like everyone else.

[XenaLee]

@XenaLee

Oh, it was just lots of fighting--it seemed like more than usual---a couple of threads locked, and some strange outbursts.

So, yeah.... the usual.   ^-^

[roamer_1]

You may see Trump as a NY Liberal but obviously the electorate saw something else. 

We should support our Republican president until we can't.

I am not a Republican for precisely that reason.
I owe fealty to no one but God.
And I had already reached the point at which I could not support this president before he was even elected.
Nothing changed just because he won.

[roamer_1]

Let me guess. You weren't a math major.

It has nothing to do with math.