Exclusive — Rand Paul: ‘Easily 35 No Votes’ Against Paul Ryan’s Obamacare 2.0, ‘I Would Predict They Pull Bill, Start Over’

[Jazzhead]

No one is conspiring with the DEMS to keep Bammycare ... they are against it because it doesn't REPEAL!!  Also the provision for immigration has been left in.

The result of the Freedom Caucuses' nihilism - if it is successful -  will be to provide the Dems with an enormous political victory.   And to keep ObamaCare's mandates and subsidies in place.

If that's not an explicit conspiracy, it may as well be.       

[Right_in_Virginia]

The result of the Freedom Caucuses' nihilism - if it is successful -  will be to provide the Dems with an enormous political victory.   And to keep ObamaCare's mandates and subsidies in place.

If that's not an explicit conspiracy, it may as well be.     

You're right ...

[libertybele]

The result of the Freedom Caucuses' nihilism - if it is successful -  will be to provide the Dems with an enormous political victory.   And to keep ObamaCare's mandates and subsidies in place.

If that's not an explicit conspiracy, it may as well be.     

The new bill doesn't change a whole lot and it still doesn't do enough to improve access to care and keep costs down.  If the bill is passed as is and people still don't have access to insurance and premiums aren't affordable.. what good is it?  The whole idea in the very first place was to insure more people at affordable rates. REPEAL was promised.

The DEMS will only be victorious if the GOP doesnt' repeal and replace!

[driftdiver]

I like Rand Paul, but politics is the art of the possible.

@Jazzhead

You mean like using tax dollars to provide everyone a job with 'fair wages', a home, food and of course medical care.   That possible?

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead

You mean like using tax dollars to provide everyone a job with 'fair wages', a home, food and of course medical care.   That possible?

Strawman.  I've never advocated for any of those things.   Try being honest, bub,   

[Jazzhead]

The new bill doesn't change a whole lot and it still doesn't do enough to improve access to care and keep costs down.  If the bill is passed as is and people still don't have access to insurance and premiums aren't affordable.. what good is it?  The whole idea in the very first place was to insure more people at affordable rates. REPEAL was promised.

The DEMS will only be victorious if the GOP doesnt' repeal and replace!

You're wrong.  It does plenty.  It gets rid of the employer and individual mandates immediately.   It gets rid of other ObamaCare taxes retroactively -  providing a boost to the economy.  It preserves access to insurance by those with pre-existing conditions while allowing insurance companies to punish free riders with higher rates.  It eases the forced subsidy of the old by the young - the biggest single factor in causing the current ACA death spiral, because young folks know the ACA individual policies are a rotten deal.   And this week's improvements permit greater tax credits for older Americans to address the cost of their policies.   

And the AHCA is only a first step,  providing the immediate tax and mandate relief that can be accomplished through budget reconciliation.   This first political victory must be achieved before other reforms - like tort reform and greater choices in available policies - can proceed.

The Freedom Caucus's nihilism puts the Republicans and President Trump at enormous political risk.   

[driftdiver]

Strawman.  I've never advocated for any of those things.   Try being honest, bub,

@Jazzhead

U sure have, just a couple days ago. 

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead

U sure have, just a couple days ago.

Liar.

[driftdiver]

You're wrong.  It does plenty.  It gets rid of the employer and individual mandates immediately.   It gets rid of other ObamaCare taxes retroactively -  providing a boost to the economy.  It preserves access to insurance by those with pre-existing conditions while allowing insurance companies to punish free riders with higher rates.  It eases the forced subsidy of the old by the young - the biggest single factor in causing the current ACA death spiral, because young folks know the ACA individual policies are a rotten deal.   And this week's improvements permit greater tax credits for older Americans to address the cost of their policies.   

And the AHCA is only a first step,  providing the immediate tax and mandate relief that can be accomplished through budget reconciliation.   This first political victory must be achieved before other reforms - like tort reform and greater choices in available policies - can proceed.

The Freedom Caucus's nihilism puts the Republicans and President Trump at enormous political risk.   

@Jazzhead

You mean it requires (by law) that insurance companies charge 30% more for anyone who hasn't had insurance for 63 days or more in the last year.  Regardless of why they didn't have insurance.  Say they lost a job, lost coverage and couldn't pay for new coverage because they weren't making any money.

Since when is it an American ideal for the Federal Govt to empower private companies to "punish" citizens for anything?  Especially for failure to buy a product that company is selling.

Sounds pretty darn close to totalitarianism to me.

[driftdiver]

Liar.

@Jazzhead

I'd go back and find the threads but everyone here already knows it.   So why waste the time.

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead

I'd go back and find the threads but everyone here already knows it.   So why waste the time.

I know what thread you are referring to.  And I never advocated any of the stuff you say I did.  Read it for yourself.   Try being honest.   

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead

You mean it requires (by law) that insurance companies charge 30% more for anyone who hasn't had insurance for 63 days or more in the last year.  Regardless of why they didn't have insurance.  Say they lost a job, lost coverage and couldn't pay for new coverage because they weren't making any money.

Since when is it an American ideal for the Federal Govt to empower private companies to "punish" citizens for anything?  Especially for failure to buy a product that company is selling.

Sounds pretty darn close to totalitarianism to me.

Free riders are the bane of any guaranteed issue insurance regime.    Insurance rates cannot be affordable if folks can avoid purchasing insurance until they get sick.   Conservatives objected to the ObamaCare mandates enforced by means of the Tax Code.   Fine - the AHCA would eliminate such mandates.  But honest folks who take responsibility need to be protected from the rates that insurers would be forced to charge if free riders could game the system.   Allowing insurers to punish free riders with higher rates is an equitable solution. 

  If you're unwilling to address the damage done to a private insurance market by free riders,  then embrace single payer and be done with it.   

[driftdiver]

Free riders are the bane of any guaranteed issue insurance regime.    Insurance rates cannot be affordable if folks can avoid purchasing insurance until they get sick.   Conservatives objected to the ObamaCare mandates enforced by means of the Tax Code.   Fine - the AHCA would eliminate such mandates.  But honest folks who take responsibility need to be protected from the rates that insurers would be forced to charge if free riders could game the system.   Allowing insurers to punish free riders with higher rates is an equitable solution. 

  If you're unwilling to address the damage done to a private insurance market by free riders,  then embrace single payer and be done with it.   

What a joke.   They aren't free riders if the insurance company doesn't pay.   You're mixing up the govt and insurance companies.  I know  in your liberal mind they are one and the same.

BTW, when the govt passes a law requiring a company to do something the word "allow" isn't an appropriate description of the action.

[catfish1957]

Kudos to the conservatives giving the orange one the "bird".  The mandate we gave was to repeal Obamacare.  Not create Obamacare lite.

[Free Vulcan]

Free riders are the bane of any guaranteed issue insurance regime.    Insurance rates cannot be affordable if folks can avoid purchasing insurance until they get sick.   Conservatives objected to the ObamaCare mandates enforced by means of the Tax Code.   Fine - the AHCA would eliminate such mandates.  But honest folks who take responsibility need to be protected from the rates that insurers would be forced to charge if free riders could game the system.   Allowing insurers to punish free riders with higher rates is an equitable solution. 

  If you're unwilling to address the damage done to a private insurance market by free riders,  then embrace single payer and be done with it.   

I'll put 'free riders' in the hopper with 'climate change deniers' and 'profiteers'. Just another way to put lipstick on collectivist govt authoritarianism via moral pooh-poohing. This is not a theocracy, we do not have the moral right to force the healthy to subsidize the sick, nor do they have the moral obligation. They do not need to 'take responsibility.'

The govt has rigged the game by forcing insurance companies to take on those who break the actuarial model without any compensation in return. It is they, not the 'free riders' that cause the problem.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Kudos to the conservatives giving the orange one the "bird". 

I'll be watching for your reaction @catfish1957 when the President responds in kind.   

[catfish1957]

I'll be watching for your reaction @catfish1957 when the President responds in kind.

As vindictive as this mf'er is?  I fully expect it.

[Right_in_Virginia]

As vindictive as this mf'er is?  I fully expect it.

Be sure to ping me. 

[XenaLee]

Trump is making a big mistake siding with Ryan, he should be siding with Rand Paul.

But..... but..... but..... 

Rand Paul isn't "the establishment".  So why would he do that?  Just cuz he 'should'?  Puhleeze.

Track record.  Check it.

[XenaLee]

I'll put 'free riders' in the hopper with 'climate change deniers' and 'profiteers'. Just another way to put lipstick on collectivist govt authoritarianism via moral pooh-poohing. This is not a theocracy, we do not have the moral right to force the healthy to subsidize the sick, nor do they have the moral obligation. They do not need to 'take responsibility.'

The govt has rigged the game by forcing insurance companies to take on those who break the actuarial model without any compensation in return. It is they, not the 'free riders' that cause the problem.

In the leftie's world of unreality....  "free riders" will also include anyone that has lived their life in such a way that they reach the golden age of 60.... since TrumpCare will punish and penalize those folks for having not died (getting older is hell, but certain people are trying to make it an even bigger hell legislatively).  It's one thing to charge people that have lived longer more for life insurance.  It's quite another to penalize them for healthcare insurance. 

One thing's for certain.  The aholes that are trying to push through this BS will never ever have to suffer the consequences of it in their own lives re: not getting or affording quality care.  They made sure they covered themselves first and foremost, so screw everybody else.   THAT needs to be brought to an end, dammit.   These people need to be made to suffer along with everyone else from what they do and have done TO Americans.

[Right_in_Virginia]

You're wrong.  It does plenty.  It gets rid of the employer and individual mandates immediately.   It gets rid of other ObamaCare taxes retroactively -  providing a boost to the economy.  It preserves access to insurance by those with pre-existing conditions while allowing insurance companies to punish free riders with higher rates.  It eases the forced subsidy of the old by the young - the biggest single factor in causing the current ACA death spiral, because young folks know the ACA individual policies are a rotten deal.   And this week's improvements permit greater tax credits for older Americans to address the cost of their policies.   

And the AHCA is only a first step,  providing the immediate tax and mandate relief that can be accomplished through budget reconciliation.   This first political victory must be achieved before other reforms - like tort reform and greater choices in available policies - can proceed.

This is a good summary @Jazzhead --- worth reposting!

[Right_in_Virginia]

Methinks this is a good place to republish the three-step plan ...



(Step 2 is accomplished by EO's signed by the President or Sec. Price to override the EO's signed by the Obama administration)

[Jazzhead]

In the leftie's world of unreality....  "free riders" will also include anyone that has lived their life in such a way that they reach the golden age of 60.... since TrumpCare will punish and penalize those folks for having not died (getting older is hell, but certain people are trying to make it an even bigger hell legislatively).  It's one thing to charge people that have lived longer more for life insurance.  It's quite another to penalize them for healthcare insurance. 

One thing's for certain.  The aholes that are trying to push through this BS will never ever have to suffer the consequences of it in their own lives re: not getting or affording quality care.  They made sure they covered themselves first and foremost, so screw everybody else.   THAT needs to be brought to an end, dammit.   These people need to be made to suffer along with everyone else from what they do and have done TO Americans.

So what's your solution?  Bitching and moaning doesn't cut it.  How would you provide for affordable health insurance?   Don't wing it with slogans -  I'd like to hear your specific ideas for providing health insurance to those with pre-existing conditions.    ObamaCare was one way -  but it forced the young and healthy to subsidize the old and sick.  You okay with that?   Single payer's another way -  are you comfortable with the government supplanting the private insurance system?    The ACHA approach - let private markets flourish with refundable tax credits to assist the old and poor, and latitude given to insurance companies to punish free riders with higher premiums - represent another.   

But easy talk-radio stuff like tort reform and "selling policies across state lines"  won't cut it either,  because the hard-nut issue is what to do with folks who are already sick (pre-existing conditions). 

I'm been proposing ideas for weeks now and get labeled an godless commie for my efforts.   The GOP leadership in Congress has been crafting an incremental fix for the worst aspects of ObamaCare,  and the nihilist conservatives are trying to sabotage it,  and hand the Dems a crushing political victory.     

Go ahead, XenaLee - can the easy rhetoric of envy and resentment, show your policy chops and start proposing real solutions that might work in the real world.   

[Jazzhead]

This is a good summary @Jazzhead --- worth reposting!

Thanks, RIV! 

[XenaLee]

So what's your solution?  Bitching and moaning doesn't cut it.  How would you provide for affordable health insurance?   Don't wing it with slogans -  I'd like to hear your specific ideas for providing health insurance to those with pre-existing conditions.    ObamaCare was one way -  but it forced the young and healthy to subsidize the old and sick.  You okay with that?   Single payer's another way -  are you comfortable with the government supplanting the private insurance system?    The ACHA approach - let private markets flourish with refundable tax credits to assist the old and poor, and latitude given to insurance companies to punish free riders with higher premiums - represent another.   

But easy talk-radio stuff like tort reform and "selling policies across state lines"  won't cut it either,  because the hard-nut issue is what to do with folks who are already sick (pre-existing conditions). 

I'm been proposing ideas for weeks now and get labeled an godless commie for my efforts.   The GOP leadership in Congress has been crafting an incremental fix for the worst aspects of ObamaCare,  and the nihilist conservatives are trying to sabotage it,  and hand the Dems a crushing political victory.     

Go ahead, XenaLee - can the easy rhetoric of envy and resentment, show your policy chops and start proposing real solutions that might work in the real world.   

Lol.....the very first thing I would do is get government the HELL out of it.  That right there would go a long way toward 'fixing' the problem that government created.  There have been plenty of solutions posed to you right here (I've seen them) but you choose to ignore them, like the atypical leftie.  So why should I waste MY time or cyber-breath reiterating those same solutions you've already seen?  Nah.  You just want to troll.  I'm not in the mood to play today.  Maybe next time.