Author Topic: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump  (Read 70414 times)

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Online corbe

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #550 on: October 22, 2016, 12:52:19 am »
   Loved that short story.  Went lookin for @Smokin Joe, found this guy, what ever happened to him, @DCPatriot ?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 12:52:58 am by corbe »
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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #551 on: October 22, 2016, 12:54:13 am »
   Loved that short story.  Went lookin for @Smokin Joe, found this guy, what ever happened to him, @DCPatriot ?


http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:dcpatriot/index?tab=comments

Online corbe

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #552 on: October 22, 2016, 01:04:01 am »
@HonestJohn  Was he referring to US?

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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #553 on: October 22, 2016, 01:10:09 am »
We had 17 candidates this time around.  Many were quite good.

The problem isn't the party, per se, but the primary voters that *CHOOSE* the worst candidate of the bunch.
We had some decent candidates in 2012, too, but we got left with Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum in the end.

There are politicians with potential in the GOP still. Consider the ones that held out against endorsing Trump as long as they could. Consider a few that still haven't. We have good candidates. We do not have a good party and we don't have a way to make sure the best candidates actually win the primaries. We have governors like Walker and LePage (outbursts aside) fighting the good fight in the states. We have a few Senators, Mike Lee and Ben Sasse (and yes, even Ted Cruz) foremost among them, willing to buck party leadership.

What the Tolkienish one neglects to note is that we, in effect, already have a split party. Note what happened in 2012 and 2014: McConnell vs. Bevin, McDaniel vs. Cochran, Graham vs. everyone, Akin vs. Brunner and Steelman. Consider the differences between John Kasich and Ted Cruz, the two candidates left standing against Trump. We have one sub-party that is older, more moderate, more focused on social issues, and more prone to boilerplate solutions. This is the GOP of old, the one that independents see as the Republican Party, the one they won't even consider. We have another that is younger, bolder, more concerned about fiscal issues, and more willing to buck orthodoxy. This one has potential.

Donald Trump, of course, is neither, but he's exploited a weakness among one of the GOP's most oft-neglected base: rural, working-class voters in the midwest who have been left in the cold by the evolving economy and the GOP's "free trade at all costs"  dogma. The side that can best incorporate the needs of us (I count myself among them) will build the coalition for the future.
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #554 on: October 22, 2016, 01:14:36 am »
The difference between brave, slow, and stupid (or lucky) is measured at times in milliseconds. That said, in my case it was more a quirk of temperature variation. Just after we knocked down the fire, I came out of the building, soaked and still 'pretty warm' into cold (20 degree) outside air, and the instant fog that formed around me looked like smoke. Someone saw it, and I got a nickname that stuck.

As I get older I really try to go with stupid, slow, brave.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline driftdiver

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #555 on: October 22, 2016, 02:15:13 am »
You know what's a better plan? Keep voting for the same party that keeps giving us worse and worse candidates so the left will run roughshod for the next 30 years, just like the last 30. /sarc

The Republican Party is dying a slow and painful death right now. Either we prepare for it now by building the basis for the future of conservatism, or we continue to latch on to the sinking ship. Take your pick.

And you seriously think conservatives can work together and rebuild an entire party?   

Wanna buy a bridge?
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Online bigheadfred

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #556 on: October 22, 2016, 02:24:13 am »
And you seriously think conservatives can work together and rebuild an entire party?   

Wanna buy a bridge?

dammit i just got to likin' livin' under this bridge...

It would be nice to build a new party.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline driftdiver

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #557 on: October 22, 2016, 02:25:25 am »
dammit i just got to likin' livin' under this bridge...

It would be nice to build a new party.

Would be much easier to fix the one we got.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #558 on: October 22, 2016, 02:25:50 am »
Yeah, but who does @sinkspur ever like?

Paul Ryan, Marco Rubio, Rick Perry, others.

Cruz has proven himself to be nothing but a craven opportunist.    That he endorsed Trump when Trump was at the height of his popularity indicates that he's a bandwagoneer.  To his discredit, Trump sank like a stone a week later.
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #559 on: October 22, 2016, 02:27:19 am »
Would be much easier to fix the one we got.

Going to be an ouster then.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline sinkspur

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #560 on: October 22, 2016, 02:32:13 am »
@corbe @Sanguine

There is a reason some people hide in their basement playing on the internet.  IMO we give too much credence to people who have not managed to accomplish anything in life and never will just because they are a name on a website.

That's for sure.  The first thing most people accomplish in life is courtesy and not talking behind another person's back. 

If you're talking about me in your little screed above, you don't know a goddamned thing about me or what I have accomplished.  I also don't understand your hostility.  I've barely posted to you and don't remember that I was anything but respectful. 

Climb down off your high horse, fella.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online bigheadfred

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #561 on: October 22, 2016, 02:33:12 am »
That's for sure.  The first thing most people accomplish in life is courtesy and not talking behind another person's back. 

If you're talking about me in your little screed above, you don't know a goddamned thing about me or what I have accomplished.  I also don't understand your hostility.  I've barely posted to you and don't remember that I was anything but respectful. 

Climb down off your high horse, fella.

heh heh heh
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online corbe

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #562 on: October 22, 2016, 02:36:38 am »
Would be much easier to fix the one we got.

   I thought that too, for as long as I'd want to admit, BUT it's over,

 WE have to rebuild somewhere else. The Trump nomination was the final nail in the coffin.  We need a new place/party.

    The Constitution Party Platform is something every thinking Conservative can get behind.

  https://www.constitutionparty.com/our-principles/platform-and-resolutions/
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Offline Emjay

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #563 on: October 22, 2016, 02:38:03 am »
Paul Ryan, Marco Rubio, Rick Perry, others.

Cruz has proven himself to be nothing but a craven opportunist.    That he endorsed Trump when Trump was at the height of his popularity indicates that he's a bandwagoneer.  To his discredit, Trump sank like a stone a week later.

He did not endorse Trump when Trump was at the height of his popularity.  When the heck was that, anyway.  I love Rick Perry but he endorsed Trump with far more enthusiasm than Cruz did.  Paul Ryan?
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #564 on: October 22, 2016, 02:38:11 am »
   I thought that too, for as long as I'd want to admit, BUT it's over,

 WE have to rebuild somewhere else. The Trump nomination was the final nail in the coffin.  We need a new place/party.

    The Constitution Party Platform is something every thinking Conservative can get behind.

The Constitution Party doesn't support an Article Five Convention, which I do.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline sinkspur

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #565 on: October 22, 2016, 02:44:13 am »
He did not endorse Trump when Trump was at the height of his popularity.  When the heck was that, anyway.  I love Rick Perry but he endorsed Trump with far more enthusiasm than Cruz did.  Paul Ryan?

He endorsed Trump the weekend before the first debate, when Trump was within two points of Hillary.  Jump on the rising rocket.

What a mistake.

Yes, I don't appreciate that Perry endorsed Trump, but I don't have to vote for Perry any longer, for anything. 

Ryan's the leader we need in the House.  Yes, I support him.  Strongly.  I wish he hadn't endorsed Trump, but he's made it pretty clear where he stands on Trump right now.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #566 on: October 22, 2016, 02:49:00 am »
He endorsed Trump the weekend before the first debate, when Trump was within two points of Hillary.  Jump on the rising rocket.

What a mistake.

Yes, I don't appreciate that Perry endorsed Trump, but I don't have to vote for Perry any longer, for anything. 

Ryan's the leader we need in the House.  Yes, I support him.  Strongly.  I wish he hadn't endorsed Trump, but he's made it pretty clear where he stands on Trump right now.

Still haven't seen anyone post a quote from Cruz with the words "I endorse Donald Trump for President"

As far as Paul Ryan goes...hes no better than Boehner.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 02:50:29 am by txradioguy »
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Online corbe

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #567 on: October 22, 2016, 02:51:15 am »
The Constitution Party doesn't support an Article Five Convention, which I do.


   That Would/Could be a deal Breaker for Me, but Unlike the GOP, some Party Platforms are changed every 2/4 years, by Votes of the delegates, and I think this is the Strongest Horse in the Stable right now. 

   It needs leadership (I recognize the great strides Mr. Castle has made with it),  he is Old and Tired.   It needs Young Conservative Blood like Evan, Cruz, Lee and a few Conservative House members AND MONEY.   

No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Online corbe

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #568 on: October 22, 2016, 02:53:12 am »
He endorsed Trump the weekend before the first debate, when Trump was within two points of Hillary.  Jump on the rising rocket.

What a mistake.

Yes, I don't appreciate that Perry endorsed Trump, but I don't have to vote for Perry any longer, for anything. 

Ryan's the leader we need in the House.  Yes, I support him.  Strongly.  I wish he hadn't endorsed Trump, but he's made it pretty clear where he stands on Trump right now.

   More often than not, I'm glad your on my side.  enemy of my enemy and such........
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #569 on: October 22, 2016, 03:33:29 am »
Would be much easier to fix the one we got.
With entrenched opposition holding the money and making the rules? Not likely. **nononono*
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #570 on: October 22, 2016, 03:37:23 am »
The Constitution Party doesn't support an Article Five Convention, which I do.
Let me put it this way, Fred. What about the Constitution would you change? The Constitution Party supports getting back to original intent. Most of the things people propose or would propose at an Article V convention are aimed at that goal. If you go there, and still feel the need to underscore the parts of the constitution that are being ignored today, it can be done with Amendments.

An Article V convention has its dangers, too.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Sanguine

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #571 on: October 22, 2016, 03:38:53 am »
Let me put it this way, Fred. What about the Constitution would you change? The Constitution Party supports getting back to original intent. Most of the things people propose or would propose at an Article V convention are aimed at that goal. If you go there, and still feel the need to underscore the parts of the constitution that are being ignored today, it can be done with Amendments.

An Article V convention has its dangers, too.

What dangers are that, @Smokin Joe ?

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #572 on: October 22, 2016, 03:42:00 am »
What dangers are that, @Smokin Joe ?
The line of thought is that those sent to such a convention would necessarily be conservatives. It is entirely possible that would not be the case. At that  point attractive to the LIV liberal amendments could be added in. Once you open the door, you can't stop at just Conservatives, and the whole thing could be hijacked to produce very different results than we would hope for.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online bigheadfred

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #573 on: October 22, 2016, 04:01:56 am »
Let me put it this way, Fred. What about the Constitution would you change? The Constitution Party supports getting back to original intent. Most of the things people propose or would propose at an Article V convention are aimed at that goal. If you go there, and still feel the need to underscore the parts of the constitution that are being ignored today, it can be done with Amendments.

An Article V convention has its dangers, too.

Term limits and imposition on regulations and/or regulatory agencies.

And WTH. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Plus  it would really point out how Marxist this country is.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Sanguine

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Re: WSJ: The Cheap Moralizing of Never Trump
« Reply #574 on: October 22, 2016, 04:23:47 am »
The line of thought is that those sent to such a convention would necessarily be conservatives. It is entirely possible that would not be the case. At that  point attractive to the LIV liberal amendments could be added in. Once you open the door, you can't stop at just Conservatives, and the whole thing could be hijacked to produce very different results than we would hope for.

Yes, but it still has to be passed by 3/4 of the states.  Highly unlikely that 3/4 of the states would go for something LIV.  I really think the risks are minimal and the rewards could be significant.