The Morality of Voting for Trump

[flowers]

It is 1939 you are a Pole and you have a choice Stalin or Hitler which do you choose? Which is the moral choice?

Hilter and Stalin. Exactly how many deaths have been caused by Trump? Hillary at least 5.

[kartographer]

So don-o is our boss?  I didn't know.

Nothing offends Trump backers as much as the Bible does. Especailly the book two Corinthians!

[kartographer]

Hilter and Stalin. Exactly how many deaths have been caused by Trump? Hillary at least 5.

Trump just hides the bodies better. Easy to do when you have mob friends.
 

[kartographer]

Hilter and Stalin. Exactly how many deaths have been caused by Trump? Hillary at least 5.

I like to see if you can answer the question though.

[Chosen Daughter]

Are you immoral? Any sin in you?

I am sorry but I do need to intercede on behalf of my friend now.  You are harassing her.  She has already stated that she is a sinner who is forgiven by the Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.

There would be no debate on moral character related to Christianity and the Bible had Trump not waved his unused Bible around saying he doesn't need forgiveness.  He is the one who claims Christian morals and has none.  Not even a basic belief in the Blood Jesus Shed for him (Donald Trump)

[Chosen Daughter]

Nothing offends Trump backers as much as the Bible does. Especailly the book two Corinthians!

[don-o]

At times in life, we are faced with difficult choices and either we make them or someone else makes them for us. Three months ago, I would have said never to both Clinton and Trump but it is now down to those two and since I choose to participate, I will vote for the one who in my judgment will do the least damage.  I respect your view but can't agree that this is a moral issue.

I note you do not say which that is.  But it really doesn't matter as far as the validity of the reasoning process that one may use within the better / worse framework.

There is much available to evaluate whether or not every decision is a moral decision. Not many people seem to be interested in exploring that.

[don-o]

I don't think don-o wanted it to go in that direction

Anyone who has seen the proof texting battles all over the interwebs really should know it is always ultimately fruitless.

[etcb]

Putting the "moral" argument aside what is your standard for a person fit for President?

Stupid  talks like a fourth grader with words like "win bigly"
Mentally ill  Narcissistic personality disorder  (Can't handle when anyone is critical of him)
repulsive and insulting (to many instances to list)
Fascist personality  (finds strength in Saddam Hussein, Kim jung Un, Vladimir Putin, Chinese government in the handling of Tiananmen Square.

Liar.  (so, so, so many instances)

Trump makes himself out to be the moral candidate who will chose the right Supreme Court Justice.  Is that an issue with you?   If it is did you miss that he would appoint his pro abortion sister?

Modified to include Trumps endorsement of his pro abortion sister for Supreme Court.

Donald Trump told Mark Halperin yesterday that his sister, a federal judge, would be a “phenomenal” Supreme Court justice. He also said that “we will have to rule that out now, at least.” If he ever becomes president, let’s hope he rules it out permanently. Maryanne Trump Barry came up in my book The Party of Death for writing one of those heated judicial decisions in favor of giving constitutional protection to partial-birth abortion. She called a New Jersey law against it a “desperate attempt” to undermine Roe v. Wade. It was, she wrote, “based on semantic machinations, irrational line-drawing, and an obvious attempt to inflame public opinion instead of logic or medical evidence.” It made no difference where the fetus was when it “expired.”

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/423196/

In your critique of Mr. Trump, you illustrate some issues that are equally troubling to me, however, I must consider that this is not a selection between Mr. Trump and some mythical perfect candidate.  It is either Mr. Trump or Sec. Clinton.  In January, one or the other will be president but neither will govern alone.  I compare the candidates to one another, not to perfection and also compare those surrounding the candidates or likely to surround them.  I look at the likelihood of restraint from the other branches of government on each.   When I consider all those factors, I must conclude that there is a greater prospect for upside with Mr. Trump than Sec. Clinton.   I certainly don't intend to give the impression that I am enthusiastic about my choice but I am downright horrified at the other prospect.  Either way, it is coming to the point where we must make a choice or the choice will be made for us.  I wish you well as you make your decision.   

[flowers]

Anyone who has seen the proof texting battles all over the interwebs really should know it is always ultimately fruitless.

Yes it is.

[flowers]

In your critique of Mr. Trump, you illustrate some issues that are equally troubling to me, however, I must consider that this is not a selection between Mr. Trump and some mythical perfect candidate.  It is either Mr. Trump or Sec. Clinton.  In January, one or the other will be president but neither will govern alone.  I compare the candidates to one another, not to perfection and also compare those surrounding the candidates or likely to surround them.  I look at the likelihood of restraint from the other branches of government on each.   When I consider all those factors, I must conclude that there is a greater prospect for upside with Mr. Trump than Sec. Clinton.   I certainly don't intend to give the impression that I am enthusiastic about my choice but I am downright horrified at the other prospect.  Either way, it is coming to the point where we must make a choice or the choice will be made for us.  I wish you well as you make your decision.

 

[HonestJohn]

It is 1939 you are a Pole and you have a choice Stalin or Hitler which do you choose? Which is the moral choice?

Depends on tbe Pole.  Many resistence groups worked with the Soviets to drive out the Nazis.

And for some, there was no other choice.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defiance_(2008_film)

[roamer_1]

At times in life, we are faced with difficult choices and either we make them or someone else makes them for us. Three months ago, I would have said never to both Clinton and Trump but it is now down to those two and since I choose to participate, I will vote for the one who in my judgment will do the least damage.  I respect your view but can't agree that this is a moral issue.

It is not down to two. There will be others on the ballot, and as unpopular as the two major candidates are, there's a fair chance of an alternative.

It has been my experience that endorsing that which I do not believe in *never* works out for the better. I respect your decision, and I truly hope you don't rue the day... But IMHO and experience, you will.
 

[kartographer]

In your critique of Mr. Trump, you illustrate some issues that are equally troubling to me, however, I must consider that this is not a selection between Mr. Trump and some mythical perfect candidate.  It is either Mr. Trump or Sec. Clinton.  In January, one or the other will be president but neither will govern alone.  I compare the candidates to one another, not to perfection and also compare those surrounding the candidates or likely to surround them.  I look at the likelihood of restraint from the other branches of government on each.   When I consider all those factors, I must conclude that there is a greater prospect for upside with Mr. Trump than Sec. Clinton.   I certainly don't intend to give the impression that I am enthusiastic about my choice but I am downright horrified at the other prospect.  Either way, it is coming to the point where we must make a choice or the choice will be made for us.  I wish you well as you make your decision.

Yeah that work so well with the narcissistic vengeful ego manic we have now, so why not do it again? 

[unknown]

Putting the "moral" argument aside what is your standard for a person fit for President?

Stupid  talks like a fourth grader with words like "win bigly"
Mentally ill  Narcissistic personality disorder  (Can't handle when anyone is critical of him)
repulsive and insulting (to many instances to list)
Fascist personality  (finds strength in Saddam Hussein, Kim jung Un, Vladimir Putin, Chinese government in the handling of Tiananmen Square.

Liar.  (so, so, so many instances)

Trump makes himself out to be the moral candidate who will chose the right Supreme Court Justice.  Is that an issue with you?   If it is did you miss that he would appoint his pro abortion sister?

Modified to include Trumps endorsement of his pro abortion sister for Supreme Court.

Donald Trump told Mark Halperin yesterday that his sister, a federal judge, would be a “phenomenal” Supreme Court justice. He also said that “we will have to rule that out now, at least.” If he ever becomes president, let’s hope he rules it out permanently. Maryanne Trump Barry came up in my book The Party of Death for writing one of those heated judicial decisions in favor of giving constitutional protection to partial-birth abortion. She called a New Jersey law against it a “desperate attempt” to undermine Roe v. Wade. It was, she wrote, “based on semantic machinations, irrational line-drawing, and an obvious attempt to inflame public opinion instead of logic or medical evidence.” It made no difference where the fetus was when it “expired.”

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/423196/

Trump has given a list of judges that he has declared would be typical of his appointees.

He has also said that they would all be pro-life.

Sounds good to me. Sounds good to 'Pro-Life Group Backs Donald Trump: “We Applaud His List of Pro-Life Candidates for Supreme Court”' ( http://www.lifenews.com/2016/06/28/pro-life-group-backs-donald-trump-we-applaud-his-list-of-pro-life-candidates-for-supreme-court/ )

For you to continue to bring out the fact that Trump likes his sister and wants to honor her and he wants to treat his sister with respect, and for you to continue to push a false narrative that his sister is on his list, is, well.... dishonest? You need to stop it...   

[don-o]

You've become a pompous, arrogant, know-it-all since joining the Trump train and I'd rather leave than submit to your new status as our boss.  We've already got one boss who hates us.

Good riddance!!!!!!!

Haven't ridden a train in almost 40 years. Heck of a trip that was. Slept on the floor at O'Hare. Got upgrade to First Class to LaGuardia. Bus to Grand Central and a train to somewhere in Connecticut.

[roamer_1]

Trump has given a list of judges that he has declared [...]

Trump has declared a whole bunch of things, and then turned right around to declare the exact opposite.
A fair question: What is it that you are using to secure his promises?

[flowers]

You've become a pompous, arrogant, know-it-all since joining the Trump train and I'd rather leave than submit to your new status as our boss.  We've already got one boss who hates us.

Good riddance!!!!!!!

What is it with you and ML always threatening to leave?  This is only a forum, ideas and thoughts on it.  Should not be the way you treat it. Don-O does not deserve this from you.

[kartographer]

Depends on tbe Pole.  Many resistence groups worked with the Soviets to drive out the Nazis.

And for some, there was no other choice.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defiance_(2008_film)

I already see shades of that happening here, especially with the direct and hinted threats from Trump and his minions about revenge on those who oppose Trump. There are any number of Trump supporters I have crossed who I am sure who will be more than willing to put on an arm band and jack boots and round up anti-Trump for reeducation.

[roamer_1]

@don-o
Our present disagreement aside, I know you to be an honorable and principled man, and a devout Christian, unquestionably... and I disagree with those that would paint you otherwise. Don't think I'll give a damn inch on this issue, but there's still sweet tea in the fridge, and a chair on my porch for you, my friend. 

[don-o]

@don-o
Our present disagreement aside, I know you to be an honorable and principled man, and a devout Christian, unquestionably... and I disagree with those that would paint you otherwise. Don't think I'll give a damn inch on this issue, but there's still sweet tea in the fridge, and a chair on my porch for you, my friend. 

That means a lot. Back atcha.

[Chosen Daughter]

Trump has given a list of judges that he has declared would be typical of his appointees.

He has also said that they would all be pro-life.

Sounds good to me. Sounds good to 'Pro-Life Group Backs Donald Trump: “We Applaud His List of Pro-Life Candidates for Supreme Court”' ( http://www.lifenews.com/2016/06/28/pro-life-group-backs-donald-trump-we-applaud-his-list-of-pro-life-candidates-for-supreme-court/ )

For you to continue to bring out the fact that Trump likes his sister and wants to honor her and he wants to treat his sister with respect, and for you to continue to push a false narrative that his sister is on his list, is, well.... dishonest? You need to stop it...   

Its an issue don't pretend its not an issue.  He held that position that his sister would be phenomenal Supreme Court choice.  He said it and it is an issue.  How are we to understand his flip flopping other than the Establishment told him to change his course.  (shut his mouth and supply a list of Conservative Judges).

If just a few months ago he felt his pro abortion sister was a great choice how are we to see that he has a Conservative mindset?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/10/11/donald-trump-says-his-older-sister-isnt-interested-in-becoming-a-supreme-court-judge/

[geronl]

Didn't Trump get a lot of big name Evangelicals to come out and support him? IIRC, Franklin Graham support him. Also, the head of Liberty University if IIRC.

$$$ they can sell their souls for dirty silver if they want, I won't

[RoosGirl]

At times in life, we are faced with difficult choices and either we make them or someone else makes them for us. Three months ago, I would have said never to both Clinton and Trump but it is now down to those two and since I choose to participate, I will vote for the one who in my judgment will do the least damage.  I respect your view but can't agree that this is a moral issue.

As I said on another thread, when you limit yourself to two choices to vote for, Hillary or Trump, then no it is not a moral choice.  When you allow yourself to pick the best candidate out of all those who are running then you can make a decision based on morals.

[geronl]

Trump has given a list of judges that he has declared would be typical of his appointees.

He walked the list back the very next day. Said his likely nominee wasn't on it.

Trump himself is not pro-life. His last known position, when he changed it 4 times in the course of a day, was to leave abortion laws as they are. That is not pro-life. He says Planned Parenthood does great things and we all know what it is they do.