Palin Rips Never Trump Republicans: You Are Either With Us or Against Us"

[sneakypete]

Israel is a very powerful footprint 'we share' with Israel in the Middle East. It has more times than not been what has kept the Middle East from errupting even more than we now see....not to mention destroying nuclear asperations of those who dare to build them against THIS nation.

Nonsense stacked to the ceiling is still nonsense. It all sounds good if you swallow it whole without thinking,but adds up to nothing once you consider it.

Even if it were true,WTH would or should we care about the Muddle East erupting if you can swallow the concept that Israel has preventing uprisings and wars there,other than being the ones responsible for them starting?

Granted,it is NOT Israel's fault that the idiot Muslims hate and want to murder their cousins for not being Muslims,but there should be no dispute about Israel being a splinter in the foot of the Muddle East.

[sneakypete]

Not true. I seethe with frustration at trying to lead the blind who are blind by choice,and who then have the stones to call me a liar for pointing out who and what their idols are,but I don't hate them/you for mere idol worship.

Years ago we had to cut a lot of people a lot of slack because factual information about public,and especially political,figures was hard to come by,but now that we all have computers it is at your fingertips the instant you get curious about the truth.

[txradioguy]

Have you every got off your Bush-Bot ass yet and done any of your own freaking research?

Maybe you are so ignorant you don't think I haven't been through the "post links so I can ignore them" BullBush you people pull?

The whole damn Bush family are traitors to America,and have been for at least 3 generations. If you don't know that by now,you are unteachable because you have no interest in learning.

You act as if you're the first Bush hating kook I've ever encountered. You're just another in a long line of tin foil hat conspiracy theorists I've run across in the 16 years I've been on these type of forums.

I've done my research.  That's why I asked you to provide a credible link to your BS.

And you deflected.

That's about what I expected.

[musiclady]

Not true. I seethe with frustration at trying to lead the blind who are blind by choice,and who then have the stones to call me a liar for pointing out who and what their idols are,but I don't hate them/you for mere idol worship.

Years ago we had to cut a lot of people a lot of slack because factual information about public,and especially political,figures was hard to come by,but now that we all have computers it is at your fingertips the instant you get curious about the truth.

You make several critical errors in your thinking here.  You presume that those of us who still respect President Bush are "blind," and that you have information we don't have, or that we refuse to believe sources that you believe are true.  The fact is, that much of what you say about the Bush's, I have seen only coming from leftist sources.  I choose not to believe leftists.

Then you falsely ascribe respect as "idol worship."  They are worlds apart, pete.  I respect many people (though the number is shrinking), and don't worship a single one of them.  I respect President Bush as my son's CinC who earned his life-long admiration.  I respect President Bush as a strong and devoted advocate of pro-life causes.   I respect him for his response to 9/11, and his unflagging patriotism and defense of America, and I respect him for his character and integrity.  Yes.  Character and integrity.  (I have many, many sources that back that up).

In addition, it's interesting that one who has no faith uses the term "idol worship" to cast aspersions on people who don't share your hatred for the Bush family.  Why is that?  Are there no secular terms that you can come up with to define what you believe to be true of millions of us?  Why use a Biblical reference when you think Christians are stupid people?

Bottom line..... I still respect and always will respect George W. Bush, as a President and as a human being.  I disagreed with many decisions he made, some vehemently, but I never doubted his honor, nor his love of America.

I would guess I speak for many others here who are pretty sick of your hatred, and want you to move on.  I may be the only one asking you for your own benefit, but I'm quite sure nearly everyone has had enough of your bile, and finds it as irrelevant as I do.

[EasyAce]

Why don't you splain to all us simpletons how an unprovoked attack that resulted in the murders of a bunch of US Navy sailors is something so minor it is no big deal,and only "kooks" think it is worth mentioning?

It wasn't exactly that simple.

Refuting [the accusation of premeditation] was difficult if not impossible in the past, when
the official records on the Liberty were designated top-secret and closed to the general public. With the
recent declassification of these documents in the United States and Israel, however, researchers have gained
access to a wealth of primary sources - Israel Defense Forces (IDF) and U.S. military records, Israeli
diplomatic correspondence, and memoranda from both the State Department and the White House. With
the aid of these materials, the attack on the Liberty can now be reconstructed virtually minute-by-minute
and with remarkable detail. The picture that emerges is not one of crime at all, nor even of criminal negligence,
but of a string of failed communications, human errors, unfortunate coincidences and equipment failures on
both the American and Israeli sides - the kind of tragic, senseless mistake that is all too common in the
thick of war . . .

The release of hitherto classified papers on the incident . . . now enables us to dispel spurious
theories about the incident, and to conclude that Israel's assault upon the USS Liberty was a tragic error,
and nothing more. In light of the new documents, it is now possible to reconstruct the chain of mishaps on
the part of both sides that led to the unintended Israeli attack.

The incident began with the ill-conceived decision to send the Liberty to the crisis-torn Middle East, a mere
half-mile beyond Egyptian waters, in an area not used by commercial shipping and which (Egyptian leader
Gamal Abdul) Nasser had declared off-limits to neutral vessels. The Americans did not accede to Chief of Staff
(Yitzhak) Rabin's request for the identification of all U.S. ships in the area or Ambassador Harman's request
for a strategic liaison between Israel and the Sixth Fleet. The Liberty's dispatchers, meanwhile, overrode naval
orders to keep the ship in Spain, and then failed to inform the U.S. attaché in Tel Aviv of its presence near the
war zone. These mistakes were compounded by the navy's communications system, which delayed by as much
as two days orders to the Liberty to withdraw 100 miles from the coast. Even after it was hit, the Americans
had difficulty locating the Liberty, the JCS placing it at "60-100 miles north of Egypt." If neither Castle, nor
CINCEUR, nor even the President of the United States could know where the Liberty was, it seems unreasonable
to expect that the Israelis, in the thick of battle, should have been able to locate it.

The Israelis, too, committed their own share of fateful errors, as the Yerushalmi report points out: The erroneous
reports of bombardment at El-Arish, the failure to replace the Liberty's marker on the board after it had been cleared,
the over-eagerness of naval commanders, and worst of all, Ensign Yifrah's miscalculation of the ship's speed.
Though Yerushalmi's report suggested reasons for these errors - inflexible naval procedures, the inaccuracy of
speed-measuring devices - one is still left with a sense of poor organization and sloppy execution. Moreover, there
were breakdowns in communications between the Israeli navy and air force stemming from inadequate command
structure and the immense pressures of a multi-front war. To these factors must be added Israel's general sensitivity
about its coastal defenses, and the exhaustion of its pilots after four days of uninterrupted combat. Yet none of
these amount to the kind of gross negligence of which the Israelis have been accused.

And then there were "bad breaks" that are unfortunately commonplace in war: The U.S. planes that were
called back because of their nuclear payload (their mere presence might have warded off the torpedo boats); the
Liberty's inability to signal the approaching Israeli boats, and the machine gunner who fired on them; and the
smoke that hid the identities of both the attackers and the attacked.

All of these elements combined to create a tragic "friendly fire" incident of the kind that claimed the lives of at
least fifty Israeli soldiers in the Six Day War, and caused 5,373 American casualties in Vietnam in 1967 alone. 
Obviously, these findings can do little to lessen the suffering of those American servicemen who were wounded
in the incident, nor can they be expected to offer comfort to the families of the dead. But they should at least
permit us to bring to a close what has for a generation remained one of the most painful chapters in the history
of America's relationship with the State of Israel.

---Michael B. Oren, in "The USS Liberty: Case Closed," Jewish Virtual Library.

[sneakypete]

You act as if you're the first Bush hating kook I've ever encountered. You're just another in a long line of tin foil hat conspiracy theorists I've run across in the 16 years I've been on these type of forums.

I've done my research.  That's why I asked you to provide a credible link to your BS.

You haven't done squat or you would know how obvious that lie is. For example,it is a HISTORICAL FACT that Prescott Bush Sr was convicted of laundering Nazi money during WW-2,and it would be pretty hard to find a bio of him that didn't mention that.

[sneakypete]

You make several critical errors in your thinking here.  You presume that those of us who still respect President Bush are "blind," and that you have information we don't have, or that we refuse to believe sources that you believe are true.  The fact is, that much of what you say about the Bush's, I have seen only coming from leftist sources.  I choose not to believe leftists.<<

Then the ignorance is yours,and your choice. Otherwise you would listen to all sources,and do your own research to determine what is true,what is outright lies,and what is political spin from both pro and anti-Bush sites. Just because you like or hate a source doesn't mean the information there to be either true or untrue.


Then you falsely ascribe respect as "idol worship."  They are worlds apart, pete.  I respect many people (though the number is shrinking), and don't worship a single one of them.  I respect President Bush as my son's CinC who earned his life-long admiration.  I respect President Bush as a strong and devoted advocate of pro-life causes.   I respect him for his response to 9/11, and his unflagging patriotism and defense of America, and I respect him for his character and integrity. <<

That is both sad and hilarious. He pimped out the US military to his Saudi paymasters for both family and political profits,and you admire him for it.  As for character and integrity,he has neither. He does what his family tells him to do.

As for him being pro-life,he is. His wife and mama are for abortion on demand though,and he is a whipped mama's boy. IF an abortion bill had shown up on his desk for him to sign,he would have been deeply conflicted.


>>In addition, it's interesting that one who has no faith uses the term "idol worship" to cast aspersions on people who don't share your hatred for the Bush family.  Why is that?  Are there no secular terms that you can come up with to define what you believe to be true of millions of us?  Why use a Biblical reference when you think Christians are stupid people?<<

You think Christians own the term "idol worship"???? You need to get out more.


>>Bottom line..... I still respect and always will respect George W. Bush, as a President and as a human being.  I disagreed with many decisions he made, some vehemently, but I never doubted his honor, nor his love of America.<<

Then you need to open your mind and your eyes.  His honor and love of America come behind his love of what is best for his family and doing what they tell him to do.


>>I would guess I speak for many others here who are pretty sick of your hatred, and want you to move on.  I may be the only one asking you for your own benefit, but I'm quite sure nearly everyone has had enough of your bile, and finds it as irrelevant as I do.<<

Those who don't learn from history tend to repeat their mistakes,and there are still Bush's out there with political ambition ready and willing to sell out America for family power and wealth.

[sneakypete]

It wasn't exactly that simple.

Nothing involving nations is ever "that simple",but the explanation is mostly spin to cover both sides.

>>The incident began with the ill-conceived decision to send the Liberty to the crisis-torn Middle East, a mere
half-mile beyond Egyptian waters, in an area not used by commercial shipping and which (Egyptian leader
Gamal Abdul) Nasser had declared off-limits to neutral vessels. <<

There can be no question as to the accuracy of that statement,but even "ill conceived" is white-washing the astounding stupidity involved in making and approving that decision. Everything else that happened flows from that one major mistake,and all of it is spin. Regardless of what nation the military belongs to,they all recognize one basic truth. You don't fire unless you have identified your target as being the enemy. This was over open water,not a jungle,and the Israeli's were firing at a big-ass boat out in the open water that was flying a big-ass flag. There are and were no "oops" excuses that cover that and excuse it as anything less than purposeful.

They may well and truly have believed it was a spy ship relaying messages to enemies the Israeli's were at war with at that time and that Israel was justified to send fighter/bombers to investigate and take proper action,but there is NO excuse for not doing a fly-over and coming close enough to identify the ship and recognize the huge flag that US Naval Vessels fly at sea. Everything that happened up to that point was the fault of the US government. Everything that happened once the shooting started was the fault of the Israeli government.

[musiclady]

@sneakypete 

An expected response.   Have a nice evening.


But do try to get a handle on that anger.  It's unbecoming in an adult....

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete 

An expected response.   Have a nice evening.

And the same to you. You clearly have a right to disagree with me,just like I have a right to disagree with you. That's what makes America,America.

[musiclady]

And the same to you. You clearly have a right to disagree with me,just like I have a right to disagree with you. That's what makes America,America.

Indeed.  I have the right to disagree with you, and you have the right to call me a "bot" even though it's not even remotely accurate.

Robots don't think for themselves, and I do.  Robots are mindless followers, and I'm not.

As long as you get that figured out, we'll be fine.

(Oh, yeah............ and think about the fact that you said Trump bots were just Bush bots, and then read any of the myriad of posts I've written here in the past year.  I think you'll realize you're wrong about that too................. not that you would ever admit that you were wrong about anything, or anyone......  You're not the "I was wrong, I'm sorry for casting aspersions on your character and mind" type).

[sneakypete]

(Oh, yeah............ and think about the fact that you said Trump bots were just Bush bots, <<

They ARE creatures with the same mind-set. Nothing more than blind followers and cheerleaders for a Maximum Leader with the Big Red "R" on his chest.

Identical to the Dim Bots in every respect except the Dim Bots are cheerleaders for any Maximum Leader with a big Red "D" on their chest.

It's all about belonging and being a member of the "winning team". Sis,boom,bah.

>>... not that you would ever admit that you were wrong about anything, or anyone......  You're not the "I was wrong, I'm sorry for casting aspersions on your character and mind" type).<<

Proving how little you know about me. I do apologize any time I have been proven wrong,and do it publicly on the thread where I was proven wrong. This doesn't happen very often because if I am not 100 percent sure that what I am posting is true,I use words like "THINK" and "SUSPECT",and capitalize them for emphasis.

[RetBobbyMI]

Carter relative?  Do they have any strange fear of rabbits?

Hey! No bashing @Bigun 's Carter's. They're in my line too, making him a distant cuz 9 or 10 times removed.

[mountaineer]

This thread is tiresomely off topic

[musiclady]

This thread is tiresomely off topic

Ya think??  :dx1:

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Buncha buttfaces, all of you!


 

[geronl]

Buncha buttfaces, all of you!

[Smokin Joe]

This thread is tiresomely off topic

Topic? What topic? We had a topic? Oh. That.

 

[uglybiker]

Hey! No bashing @Bigun 's Carter's. They're in my line too, making him a distant cuz 9 or 10 times removed.

Do  you occasionally have the urge to 'put on a sweatah'? 

[txradioguy]

You haven't done squat or you would know how obvious that lie is. For example,it is a HISTORICAL FACT that Prescott Bush Sr was convicted of laundering Nazi money during WW-2,and it would be pretty hard to find a bio of him that didn't mention that.

First off...



Secondly...

1. Fritz Thyssen was arrested an put in a concentration camp by the Nazis. He had a falling out with Hitler over... Anti-Semitism! (Thyssen was a German nationalist, not an anti-Semite.)
2. At the time Prescott Bush became a director of UBC it was not illegal to do business with the Third Reich or business based there.
3. At the time UBC was seized, Prescott Bush was not found guilty of any wrong doing. On the contrary, when UBC was seized he was paid $1.5 million (in 1942 dollars!) for his single share.

On irrelevant side, a lot of other folks made money doing business with the Reich: IBM, IT&T, Ford, GM, Standard Oil, etc. Again, what they did was not illegal. Ford and GM had plants in Germany and were compensated for bomb damage after the war...
On the illegal side, Standard Oil continued deliver oil to Spain (where it was shipped through France to Germany, well after the US went to war with Germany.
Isn't funny, though, how nobody goes after folks like Armand Hammer (a sponsor of Gore's daddy) who did business with the Commies, though?

This has been refuted years ago. It basically boils down to Prescott owning one share and being honorary chairman, of a company that was a subsidiary of a German company who was owned by a dude that defected from the Nazi camp in IIRC 1938.

[Hoodat]

I can guarantee you that neither you nor anyone else can come up with ONE single valid reason,other than your superstitious religious beliefs.

I sense that you are pissed off at G-d about something.  Did He not do something like you would have done it if you had been Him?

[sneakypete]

First off...



Secondly...

1. Fritz Thyssen was arrested an put in a concentration camp by the Nazis. He had a falling out with Hitler over... Anti-Semitism! (Thyssen was a German nationalist, not an anti-Semite.)
2. At the time Prescott Bush became a director of UBC it was not illegal to do business with the Third Reich or business based there.
3. At the time UBC was seized, Prescott Bush was not found guilty of any wrong doing. On the contrary, when UBC was seized he was paid $1.5 million (in 1942 dollars!) for his single share. <<

A "gracious" look/spin of the Bush involvement with the Harriman Bank. Here is another look. There are others,but I am not going to waste any more time looking for and reading them. I did note there seems to be a lot fewer links to these events than there were when Boy Jorge was running for office.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar


>>On irrelevant side, a lot of other folks made money doing business with the Reich: IBM, IT&T, Ford, GM, Standard Oil, etc. <<


Ahhh,the "They were all doing it!" defense.  Which is no defense at all because all it really means is they were all guilty.

<<Again, what they did was not illegal. Ford and GM had plants in Germany and were compensated for bomb damage after the war... <<

I was unaware of Ford getting paid for bombing damage after the war was over,but knew that GM sued the US government for bomb damage to their Opel plant (built trucks for the Nazi military) during WW-2,and actually won damage money to rebuild. Which goes to show that there is nothing new about government corruption. Opel was a subsidiary of GM,and were making money hand over fist supplying the Nazi war machine with trucks and car before and during the war,and the destruction of the Opel plant was NECESSARY in order to help cripple the Nazi war machine so we could win the war. Yet the scum-sucking parasites that ran our government back then decided to reimburse them for their losses.  What about the losses of the lives of all the US military members due to their product delivering troops,munitions,arms,and other war supplies to the front to kill US soldiers? I guess the profits of the international financiers and banks were more important than all the lives lost and ruined.


>>On the illegal side, Standard Oil continued deliver oil to Spain (where it was shipped through France to Germany, well after the US went to war with Germany. <<


Wasn't that mostly owned and controlled on the US side by the Rockefellers and the Kennedy's?


>>Isn't funny, though, how nobody goes after folks like Armand Hammer (a sponsor of Gore's daddy) who did business with the Commies, though?<<

Armand Hammer was more than a Big Al supporter. One of his nieces was the senior Goober's wife and handler. As near as I can tell,he was untouchable because of his connections to high society in NY,and to many museums and private art collectors. He used his position as an advisor to Stalin to sell art that was seized by the Nazi's from the legal owners and then seized by the Soviets to the Nazi's. If you had enough money and connections and lusted after a piece of stolen art,Hammer could fix you up with it using diplomatic channels.  LOTS of that stuff ended up in private US collections,and it is rumored that  even more ended up in US museums. Hammer was bulletproof because any attempt to arrest him would have/could have resulted in prominent people being exposed for buying art stolen from Jews and others by the Nazi's.

>>This has been refuted years ago. It basically boils down to Prescott owning one share and being honorary chairman, of a company that was a subsidiary of a German company who was owned by a dude that defected from the Nazi camp in IIRC 1938.<<

Pure spin. Prescott Bush was one of the owners of the company.

[sneakypete]

I sense that you are pissed off at G-d about something.  Did He not do something like you would have done it if you had been Him?

That would be the equivalent of being mad at unicorns.

[mountaineer]

Ah, the old "there is no God and I hate Him" approach?

[DCPatriot]