Author Topic: Unconventional #18: Inside the new book that details how GOP delegates could wriggle out of nominating Trump (and more!)  (Read 7736 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline RoosGirl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,759
In his new book, a Republican National Committee official claims that his fellow delegates don’t have to nominate Trump in Cleveland. Is he right?

Curly Haugland is on a mission: He wants every one of the 2,472 delegates heading to this summer’s Republican convention to know that the press, the party leaders and even the chairman of the GOP are wrong.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/unconventional-18-inside-book-details-000000315.html

This article has the most detail about the rules committee that I have seen.

Offline L9teen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,514
  • Gender: Female
  • Am I here?
In his new book, a Republican National Committee official claims that his fellow delegates don’t have to nominate Trump in Cleveland. Is he right?

Curly Haugland is on a mission: He wants every one of the 2,472 delegates heading to this summer’s Republican convention to know that the press, the party leaders and even the chairman of the GOP are wrong.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/unconventional-18-inside-book-details-000000315.html

This article has the most detail about the rules committee that I have seen.
BTTT :patriot:

Offline mlizzy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 694
    • Rosary for Peace
America needs no words from me to see how your decision in Roe v. Wade has deformed a great nation. The so-called right to abortion has pitted mothers against their children and women against men. Human rights are not a privilege conferred by government. They are every human being's entitlement by virtue of his humanity. The right to life does not depend, and must not be declared to be contingent, on the pleasure of anyone else, not even a parent or a sovereign. -Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta

Offline mlizzy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 694
    • Rosary for Peace
There is an #EjectEjectEject hashtag on Twitter. This gif was left for delegates!

America needs no words from me to see how your decision in Roe v. Wade has deformed a great nation. The so-called right to abortion has pitted mothers against their children and women against men. Human rights are not a privilege conferred by government. They are every human being's entitlement by virtue of his humanity. The right to life does not depend, and must not be declared to be contingent, on the pleasure of anyone else, not even a parent or a sovereign. -Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta

Offline L9teen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,514
  • Gender: Female
  • Am I here?
If Trump continues on the way he’s been…he might lose a good portion of his support and it might be enough to convince delegates to withhold their vote on the first round of voting, so that he can’t get the 1237, and it will go to a 2nd vote.  Then if that happens, the chances of Cruz getting the delegates votes is pretty good.  So, IMO, there’s still a chance Cruz could get nominated.  It’s happened before, a couple times, in history.  [/font]  [/color][/font]

Offline RoosGirl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,759
  It’s happened before, a couple times, in history.  [/size][/font]  [/color][/font]

It has?  I was under the impression that never before had a nominee won the popular vote and then not been voted to be the nominee at the convention?

Offline ABX

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 900
  • Words full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
The rules in both parties have ways to disqualify a candidate for legal or ethical malfeasance- rightfully so as the last thing you would want is to nominate a candidate who, for example, has a criminal indictment hanging over his or her head.

We may actually be coming up on a situation where this is a factor in both parties.

Offline ABX

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 900
  • Words full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
It has?  I was under the impression that never before had a nominee won the popular vote and then not been voted to be the nominee at the convention?

Several times. http://leavittpartners.com/2016/03/a-history-of-contested-political-conventions/

Offline RoosGirl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,759
Several times. http://leavittpartners.com/2016/03/a-history-of-contested-political-conventions/

I knew there had been contested conventions, but I didn't think there had ever been a time when a nominee had won the popular vote and not ended up as the final nominee.  Looks like maybe just one, Teddy Roosevelt, and even then since most of the states did not have primaries I don't know if I would compare it to this year.  Or did I miss one?

Offline L9teen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,514
  • Gender: Female
  • Am I here?
It has?  I was under the impression that never before had a nominee won the popular vote and then not been voted to be the nominee at the convention?
Some nominees weren't even on the ballot or had the lowest percentage of delegates (or none at all):

THE HISTORY OF REPUBLICAN CONVENTIONS
In the ‘52 race, Ohio Sen. Robert Taft entered the convention with 35 percent of the delegates, followed by General Dwight D. Eisenhower with 26.3 percent, California Gov. Earl Warren with 17.3 percent, and Minnesota Gov. Harold Stassen with 11.3 percent. Most delegates at the convention preferred Taft as the true conservative, but shifted their votes to Eisenhower because he had a much greater likelihood of winning in November. As history showed, they were right.


In 1948, New York Gov. Thomas Dewey came into the nomination with the most delegates, and became the nominee after the second ballot.


In 1940, Dewey also came in with the most delegates—37 percent, followed by Taft with 20 percent, and businessman Wendell Willkie (who had been a Democrat until a year earlier) with 11 percent. After six ballots, the convention settled on Willkie as the compromise choice.


In 1920, General Leonard Wood came in with 29 percent of the delegates, Illinois Gov. Frank Lowden with 21 percent, California Sen. Hiram Johnson with 13.5 percent, and Ohio Sen. Warren Harding with 6.7 percent. After ten ballots, Harding became the nominee (and went on to win the general election with 60 percent of the popular vote—the second-most-dominant popular vote in U.S. history).
In 1916, after three ballots, the GOP nominated frontrunner Supreme Court Justice Charles Evans Hughes, who came in with 25 percent of the delegates.


In 1888, Ohio Sen. John Sherman came in with 28 percent of the delegates, followed by Indiana federal judge Walter Gresham with 13.5 percent, New York lawyer and politician Chauncey Depew with 12 percent, and Indiana Sen. Benjamin Harrison with 10 percent. Harrison was chosen after eight ballots, and eventually won one of the closest general elections in U.S. history.
In 1884, frontrunner Maine Sen. James G. Blaine, with 41 percent of the delegates, was nominated after four ballots.
In 1880, the clear frontrunner, with 40 percent of the delegates, was former president and war hero Ulysses S. Grant. Blaine had 37.6 percent, and Ohio Sen. John Sherman 12 percent. After 36 ballots (the longest in GOP history), the convention chose as a compromise candidate Ohio Rep. James Garfield, who had entered the convention with no delegates whatsoever. Garfield won the general election by merely 2,000 popular votes, but an electoral blowout
.
In 1876, Blaine was the frontrunner, with 38 percent of the delegates. Three others ran a distant third with about 13 percent each, and Ohio Gov. Rutherford B. Hayes was in fourth with 8 percent. After seven ballots, Hayes was chosen as a compromise candidate. He lost the general election popular vote (arguably because of black voter suppression in the South), but won a disputed Electoral College vote in the most bitterly fought election in U.S. history.


In 1860, New York Sen. William H. Seward entered the convention as the prohibitive favorite, with 37 percent of the delegates. After three ballots, the convention settled on the distant second-place contender, who had only 22 percent of the delegates. You may have heard of former Illinois Rep. Abraham Lincoln.


A Slightly Better Track Record of Success

The purpose of brokered conventions is to produce a nominee acceptable to Republicans nationwide and who can win the general election. Six of the GOP’s ten brokered conventions have produced a nominee who went on to become president, with six of them winning the popular vote. By contrast, in the ten elections since 1960 in which the GOP was not nominating an incumbent, the Republican nominee has won four times.

Whatever one may think of the GOP brokering conventions, their track record in producing winning candidates has been slightly better than the modern system of choosing nominees. Perhaps the GOP ought not to be afraid of the possibility.


Offline RoosGirl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,759
Sorry, I'm really not trying to beat a dead horse, though I think it seems like that by now.  I am understanding that in the list of contested conventions the conventions were contested because no one had the magic number (whatever that number was at the time, or maybe that wasn't even a part of the rules then) to be the presumed nominee.  So, when they had the first vote, even though one person had a higher percentage, they didn't have enough higher of a percentage to win on the first ballot.

In the case this year, Trump has presumably the number of delegates required to win on the first ballot because he won that many per the state allocation of them.  This is a different scenario than all the other contested conventions.  Going in, at least based on the rules from last election which is the only thing we have to go by at this point,it is presume this one will not be a contested convention.

Offline L9teen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,514
  • Gender: Female
  • Am I here?
Sorry, I'm really not trying to beat a dead horse, though I think it seems like that by now.  I am understanding that in the list of contested conventions the conventions were contested because no one had the magic number (whatever that number was at the time, or maybe that wasn't even a part of the rules then) to be the presumed nominee.  So, when they had the first vote, even though one person had a higher percentage, they didn't have enough higher of a percentage to win on the first ballot.

In the case this year, Trump has presumably the number of delegates required to win on the first ballot because he won that many per the state allocation of them.  This is a different scenario than all the other contested conventions.  Going in, at least based on the rules from last election which is the only thing we have to go by at this point,it is presume this one will not be a contested convention.
Technically, I believe you are correct. :beer:   However, this election is not normal, :chairbang: and I believe, there is a possibility that the first round of votes could throw everything off.   :th_10444: Depending on the rules that are decided on, which are done at every convention and could be different than previous elections, depending on what the committee decides, that could change things.

For one, there are a lot of Cruzers on the committee and people who don't want Trump, too.  :nono: And if delegates decide to withhold their vote, which they have a right to do (as the article you posted indicates), if Trump doesn't get the 1237 on that first vote, then it would go on to a second vote, etc. :2gunz:

I know the chances of that are slim...and I'm hoping praying  :0001: for a Miracle here...but no one truly knows until the actual Convention is held and the votes are cast.  It's all speculation hence why Trump is only the "presumptive" nominee. 

Of course, the media and Trumpistas will tell you it's a done deal, no bones about it. :shrug:

Offline RoosGirl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,759
Okay, thank you.  I just wanted to make sure that I had the best understanding I could have, given the craziness of the subject.  Any idea when the final rules are announced?  I know they meet the week before, but is there some press release when the rules are finalized or are they announced at the beginning of the convention or something else entirely?

Will be interesting to see who all ends up being on the rules committee and what they end up doing.

Offline L9teen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,514
  • Gender: Female
  • Am I here?
Okay, thank you.  I just wanted to make sure that I had the best understanding I could have, given the craziness of the subject.  Any idea when the final rules are announced?  I know they meet the week before, but is there some press release when the rules are finalized or are they announced at the beginning of the convention or something else entirely?

Will be interesting to see who all ends up being on the rules committee and what they end up doing.
http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/R

Monday 18 July - Thursday 21 July 2016: 41st Republican National Convention, Cleveland, Ohio.
The 41st REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION will have a total of 2,472 delegates, with 1,237 (a majority) necessary in order for a Presidential or Vice-Presidential candidate to be nominated.
The rules for the 2016 Republican National Convention call for the following formula for determining the number of delegates:
 
  • For Jurisdictions with Constitutionally Elected Members of Congress:
    • 10 At-Large delegates from each state, that is, 5 at-large delegates for each U.S. Senator [Rule 13(a)(1)].
    • 3 District delegates for each U.S. Representative as established by the 2010 census [Rule 13(a)(3)].
  • For Jurisdictions without Constitutionally Elected Members of Congress [Rule 13(a)(4)]:
    • 6 at-large delegates from American Samoa.
    • 16 at-large delegates from the District of Columbia.
    • 6 at-large delegates from Guam.
    • 6 at-large delegates from the Northern Mariana Islands.
    • 20 at-large delegates from Puerto Rico.
    • 6 at-large delegates from Virgin Islands.
  • For all Jurisdictions - 3 party leaders: the national committeeman, the national committee woman, and the chairman of the state Republican Party. [Rule 13(a)(2)]
  • Bonus Delegates
    • President: States casting a majority of their 2012 Electoral Votes for the Republican Candidate receive 4.5 + 0.60 × the Jurisdiction's Total 2012 Electoral Vote in bonus delegates. Should the District of Columbia cast the majority of their electoral votes for the Republican Candidate, the District will receive 4.5 + (0.30 × 16) in bonus delegates. Round any fractions UP to the next whole number. [Rules 13(a)(5) and 13(a)(7)]
    • U.S. Senate: Award 1 bonus delegate for each Republican Senator elected in the 6 year period between January 1, 2010 and December 31, 2015. Limit 2. [Rule 13(a)(6)]
    • Governor States electing a Republican Governor between January 1, 2012 and December 31, 2015 receive 1 bonus delegate. Limit: 1. [Rule 13(a)(5)(i)]
    • U.S. House: States electing Republicans to 50% or more of their U.S. House seats between January 1, 2012 and December 31, 2015 receive 1 bonus delegate. Limit 1. [Rule 13(a)(5)(ii)]
    • One Chamber: States electing  a Republican majority to one chamber of the state legislature (OR the legislature is presided over by a Republican) between January 1, 2012 and December 31, 2015 receive 1 bonus delegate. Limit 1. [Rule 13(a)(5)(iii)]
    • All Chambers: States electing a Republican majority to all chambers of the state legislature (OR all chambers are presided over by a Republican) between January 1, 2012 and December 31, 2015 receive 1 bonus delegate. Limit 1. [Rule 13(a)(5)(iv)]
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/12/politics/gop-convention-rules-committee/

I'm not sure who all is on the committee, but I know Curley Haigland is.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/republican-convention-rules-trump-cruz-221355

Offline RoosGirl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,759
As far as I have been able to find they've we only know the ones from 7 states and DC.

Alabama
Ed Henry
Laura Payne

Colorado
Guy Short
Kendal Unruh

Louisiana
Ross Little Jr.
Gwen Bowen

Michigan
Matt Hall
Judi Schwalbach

North Dakota
Curly Haugland
Sandy Boehler

South Dakota
Sandye Kading
David Wheeler

Utah
Mike Lee
Sharon Lee

Washington, D.C.
Bob Kabel
Jill Homan

Per https://ballotpedia.org/RNC_Rules_Committee,_2016

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,243
Okay, thank you.  I just wanted to make sure that I had the best understanding I could have, given the craziness of the subject.  Any idea when the final rules are announced?  I know they meet the week before, but is there some press release when the rules are finalized or are they announced at the beginning of the convention or something else entirely?

Will be interesting to see who all ends up being on the rules committee and what they end up doing.

The 2016 Primaries are OVER!  Donald Trump is the UNDISPUTED winner @RoosGirl

Stop with the  :bs:   Take a few days off, lick your wounds and come back prepared to fight Hillary Clinton.

ENOUGH with the #NeverTrump nonsense.  ENOUGH!!!!

Offline RoosGirl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,759
The 2016 Primaries are OVER!  Donald Trump is the UNDISPUTED winner @RoosGirl

Stop with the  :bs:   Take a few days off, lick your wounds and come back prepared to fight Hillary Clinton.

ENOUGH with the #NeverTrump nonsense.  ENOUGH!!!!

It's a discussion of the rules.  If you don't want to read it, then don't.

Offline sitetest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • #NeverEVERtrump. #Neverhitlery
The 2016 Primaries are OVER!  Donald Trump is the UNDISPUTED winner @RoosGirl

Stop with the  :bs:   Take a few days off, lick your wounds and come back prepared to fight Hillary Clinton.

ENOUGH with the #NeverTrump nonsense.  ENOUGH!!!!

#Nevertrump
Former Republican.

Offline L9teen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,514
  • Gender: Female
  • Am I here?
The 2016 Primaries are OVER!  Donald Trump is the UNDISPUTED winner @RoosGirl

Stop with the  :bs:   Take a few days off, lick your wounds and come back prepared to fight Hillary Clinton.

ENOUGH with the #NeverTrump nonsense.  ENOUGH!!!!

STOP PROMOTING DEMOCRATS AND MAYBE WE WILL!!!!

Offline WAC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,904
The rules in both parties have ways to disqualify a candidate for legal or ethical malfeasance- rightfully so as the last thing you would want is to nominate a candidate who, for example, has a criminal indictment hanging over his or her head. .....We may actually be coming up on a situation where this is a factor in both parties.

IMO Both these candidates are the worst we could have been presented with, that's for sure. .....makes one wonder if either 'party' will survive this election cycle....what a mess they've both made of this election!...this with a great deal of media practically calling it for them as par usual.

Offline Emjay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,687
  • Gender: Female
  • Womp, womp
:0001: R e m a i n i n g  h o p e f u l ... thank you! :0001:

And from New Jersey: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cruz-n.j.-campaign-state-director-calls-for-delegate-revolt/article/2593209

Me, too.  I keep hoping that something, anything, will happen to keep this horrible person from the nomination.  Ted Cruz would seem to be the logical choice for the delegates if they are truly unbound.

The article was good but I couldn't plod through it all.

Perhaps if Trump continues to self-destruct and his prospects seem very dark, the convention will rise up and save us.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Emjay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,687
  • Gender: Female
  • Womp, womp
If Trump continues on the way he’s been…he might lose a good portion of his support and it might be enough to convince delegates to withhold their vote on the first round of voting, so that he can’t get the 1237, and it will go to a 2nd vote.  Then if that happens, the chances of Cruz getting the delegates votes is pretty good.  So, IMO, there’s still a chance Cruz could get nominated.  It’s happened before, a couple times, in history.  [/font]  [/color][/font]

From your post to God's (or the delegates) ears.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline WAC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,904
The 2016 Primaries are over!  Donald Trump is the undisputed winner!

Well that's not been 'Officially' established, nor can it be until the next step, which is at the Convention. Until then he's still the Presumptive Nominee.

Interesting that some Representatives are 'withdrawing' their support for Trump....."Sen. Mark Kirk of Illinois withdrew his support...so if others continue to follow suite then surely somethings intended to happen at convention.
 :bullie smokin:

Offline Texas Yellow Rose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,427
  • Gender: Female
  • Native Texan