Trump: Transgender people can use whatever bathroom they want

[AnybodyButaDem]

Yet your concealing the answer to the question I asked. Your answer will certainly be a good gage of your credibility. As for telling the truth, I have no doubt your telling what you believe to to be the truth. Its not your veracity I'm inquiring about, its your credibility on complex issues. As for me...open book, ask anything and I will provide a full and candid answer. It seems my vibe may have been on target.

As for channeling, I'm just not into the New Age stuff. I'm old school, Stoic approach to rational thinking...be skeptical and analytical towards all things.

Here you go.

We need hope.  Ultimately my hope is in the Lord Jesus Christ.  No matter what happens in this election.  Hope lives in me.  I believe that is the same for Ted Cruz.

[Mesaclone]

Maybe she rightly concluded she had no obligation to answer your off-topic irrelevant question.

I agree, she has no obligation. The answer is on topic as it goes directly to credibility...as to whether someone is blinded by religious orthodoxy regarding social issue...so while there's no obligation, the inability to answer such a simple query speaks volumes about the believability of the person in question. Whereas, a simple answer makes the simple point.

But as you say, its a choice. Of course, that's true of every discussion and every question.

[oldmomster]

I'm glad to hear someone else gets it. This is where it's all leading to.

it's so obvious from a Mom point of view...

suddenly, everyone jumps on the transvestite bandwagon, pretending that, of course, everyone will behave when there are kiddies around.

have you seen their public parades? 

the 'good' ones have been using the ladies rooms for years....its the pervs that are being given access now.

[Sanguine]

I agree, she has no obligation. The answer is on topic as it goes directly to credibility...as to whether someone is blinded by religious orthodoxy regarding social issue...so while there's no obligation, the inability to answer such a simple query speaks volumes about the believability of the person in question. Whereas, a simple answer makes the simple point.

But as you say, its a choice. Of course, that's true of every discussion and every question.

"blinded by religious orthodoxy regarding social issue"?   Hopefully you're not trying to say something about clueless religious bigots?  Since, many of us tend to believe that there is wisdom and truth in our religious beliefs. 

[Mesaclone]

"blinded by religious orthodoxy regarding social issue"?   Hopefully you're not trying to say something about clueless religious bigots? Since, many of us tend to believe that there is wisdom and truth in our religious beliefs.

I'd venture we ALL believe that, as there IS some wisdom and truth in nearly every religious perspective. Yet, there are also those of us who are blinded by their orthodoxy, believing absurd things such as the earth being thousands of years old...that Noah's Ark is more than a metaphor...and that individuals in the past lived for hundreds of years. So faith without reason is the issue, rather than reasoned faith. This isn't about labeling or bigotry, its about the use of rationality and common sense on political issues that touch on religious morality.

Not all of us are Christian, myself for example, and the adherence to such single minded irrationality stemming from religious perspective can effect people of any faith...as we've seen with radical Islam.  In other words, its not about a specific religion, its about whether one's religious beliefs supplant rationality and impose a duty to believe in things that are; harmful to others and/or contrary to basic reason.

[DCPatriot]

"blinded by religious orthodoxy regarding social issue"?   Hopefully you're not trying to say something about clueless religious bigots?  Since, many of us tend to believe that there is wisdom and truth in our religious beliefs.

LOL!

My take was that he was doing, in another way, what I posted the other day.

Social Conservatives...especially the ones with moral superiority complexes...show up every FOUR years with the same litmus test (according to their religious beliefs) of candidates.

If their guy loses, instead of becoming a team player, want to pack their stuff and go home.

"Wisdom and truth" aside, anybody who thinks the earth isn't more than 6,000 years old is a moron and not worthy of interacting on the topic.

[MACVSOG68]

LOL!

My take was that he was doing, in another way, what I posted the other day.

Social Conservatives...especially the ones with moral superiority complexes...show up every FOUR years with the same litmus test (according to their religious beliefs) of candidates.

If their guy loses, instead of becoming a team player, want to pack their stuff and go home.

"Wisdom and truth" aside, anybody who thinks the earth isn't more than 6,000 years old is a moron and not worthy of interacting on the topic.

Interestingly only 19% believe in pure evolution.  The rest are split between evolution with God's hand or creation as we exist today.  Probably one reason to stay off the evolution debate threads.   I personally believe in evolution but cannot determine if it was with God's hand or not.  Still...something had to get that whole big bang thing started, and I'm not about to start insulting 40% of the population.     In any case, I don't see the issue of this thread as one of belonging just to social conservatives.  I've given my reasons a couple of times above and stand by them.

[DCPatriot]

Interestingly only 19% believe in pure evolution.  The rest are split between evolution with God's hand or creation as we exist today.  Probably one reason to stay off the evolution debate threads.   I personally believe in evolution but cannot determine if it was with God's hand or not.  Still...something had to get that whole big bang thing started, and I'm not about to start insulting 40% of the population.     In any case, I don't see the issue of this thread as one of belonging just to social conservatives.  I've given my reasons a couple of times above and stand by them.

For the exact reasons you express, purposely didn't address "evolution" in my reply to which you're referring.

Was strictly limiting my thoughts to the age of this rock called Earth.   

[Mesaclone]

Interestingly only 19% believe in pure evolution.  The rest are split between evolution with God's hand or creation as we exist today.  Probably one reason to stay off the evolution debate threads.   I personally believe in evolution but cannot determine if it was with God's hand or not.  Still...something had to get that whole big bang thing started, and I'm not about to start insulting 40% of the population.     In any case, I don't see the issue of this thread as one of belonging just to social conservatives.  I've given my reasons a couple of times above and stand by them.

Accepting evolution over billions of years as being god's hand is not contrary to basic reasoning, though it is clearly unprovable. Personally, I also believe that creation cannot be distinguished from Creator, and so it goes without saying that the two are entwined. This is not what I'm arguing against. What I'm arguing against is the thought process that asserts the world's age is measured in the thousands and that a boat once held two of every animal during a world wide flood. Beliefs that are provably absurd in scientific terms. So what you've laid out above are two very different things, one rational and coherent and the other...not.

As for what percentage of persons believe what, that's irrelevant in a discussion of rationality. The intent here is not to debate anyone's religious choice, but to differentiate how various religious views impact the application of reason on modern political issues...and to decry the litmus tests that so many Cruzians want to apply on specific issues.

[Sanguine]

LOL!

My take was that he was doing, in another way, what I posted the other day.

Social Conservatives...especially the ones with moral superiority complexes...show up every FOUR years with the same litmus test (according to their religious beliefs) of candidates.

If their guy loses, instead of becoming a team player, want to pack their stuff and go home.

"Wisdom and truth" aside, anybody who thinks the earth isn't more than 6,000 years old is a moron and not worthy of interacting on the topic.

Nope, wrong on all counts, at least as it applies to me. 

[Sanguine]

I'd venture we ALL believe that, as there IS some wisdom and truth in nearly every religious perspective. Yet, there are also those of us who are blinded by their orthodoxy, believing absurd things such as the earth being thousands of years old...that Noah's Ark is more than a metaphor...and that individuals in the past lived for hundreds of years. So faith without reason is the issue, rather than reasoned faith. This isn't about labeling or bigotry, its about the use of rationality and common sense on political issues that touch on religious morality.

Not all of us are Christian, myself for example, and the adherence to such single minded irrationality stemming from religious perspective can effect people of any faith...as we've seen with radical Islam.  In other words, its not about a specific religion, its about whether one's religious beliefs supplant rationality and impose a duty to believe in things that are; harmful to others and/or contrary to basic reason.

No, for instance, I don't think there's any wisdom or truth to islam, or any that is was appropriated from Judaism and/or Christianity.

And, yes, I got that you aren't a Christian, hence my comment about your not-so-veiled disdain.

[musiclady]

it's so obvious from a Mom point of view...

suddenly, everyone jumps on the transvestite bandwagon, pretending that, of course, everyone will behave when there are kiddies around.

have you seen their public parades? 

the 'good' ones have been using the ladies rooms for years....its the pervs that are being given access now.

It is SUCH a good point to bring up those public parades!

The idea that this kind of perversion will be on its best behavior in a bathroom with little kids is pie in the sky stupid!

btw, WELCOME, oldmomster! 

[MACVSOG68]

For the exact reasons you express, purposely didn't address "evolu .   

I understand.  The 40% I referred comes from Gallup and refers to belief that the earth and humanity as it exists today was created within the last 10 thousand years.  In matters of faith, logic and science aren't going to win.  I went to Catholic schools in the 1940s and never recall the nuns teaching that evolution was inconsistent with the teachings of the Church.  But apparently polling shows a lot of people do.  But back to the transgender issue...  

[oldmomster]

It is SUCH a good point to bring up those public parades!

The idea that this kind of perversion will be on its best behavior in a bathroom with little kids is pie in the sky stupid!

btw, WELCOME, oldmomster! 

Nice to be so warmly welcomed!  Glad I found you! 

[musiclady]

Nice to be so warmly welcomed!  Glad I found you!

Glad you found us too!

We're not perfect, and there are spats now and again, but this is a great place to be!

[DCPatriot]

[Mesaclone]

No, for instance, I don't think there's any wisdom or truth to islam, or any that is was appropriated from Judaism and/or Christianity.

And, yes, I got that you aren't a Christian, hence my comment about your not-so-veiled disdain.

Islam teaches giving selflessly to the poor. Is that not wisdom? So obviously, there IS some wisdom and truth...a fact which does not change the brutality and savagery it also condones (for the record, the bible does no less...ordering the death of children in Heshbon, Sodom, Gomorrah and Jericho...not to mention across the globe in a deliberate flood).

As for disdain, I have none for Christianity, nor Islam, nor Judaism. They all point towards the improving of human nature, when read in a reasonable light, but they are all easy tools for those who would misuse their tenets. My disdain is reserved ONLY for the absurd interpretations that are often made by the followers of said religions. Mark Twain was a man who truly understood the nature of religion, and his insight applies to Christianity as it does to all religion. Thomas Jefferson went straight to the cogent point:

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."   From the Jefferson Memorial Monument in Washington, DC.
Most people think he was referring to George III.   Instead, he was responding to attacks made on him in pamphlets distributed by clergy in Philadelphia during the presidential election of 1800.  These pamphlets accused Jefferson of being unfit to become President because he did not hold Christian beliefs.



Twain has one of the best quotes I know of regarding the bible and how it is so easily adapted for misuse:

The Christian Bible is a drug store. Its contents remain the same; but the medical practice changes.


None of the above is an attack on Christianity per se, it is simply to assert that it is...like all religion. And as such, it is a ready tool for those who would use it for politics or for personal gain.

[andy58-in-nh]

That's terrific. Thanks. 

[Sanguine]

Islam teaches giving selflessly to the poor. Is that not wisdom? So obviously, there IS some wisdom and truth...a fact which does not change the brutality and savagery it also condones (for the record, the bible does no less...ordering the death of children in Heshbon, Sodom, Gomorrah and Jericho...not to mention across the globe in a deliberate flood).

As I said:  "any that is was appropriated from Judaism and/or Christianity".  Yes, there is brutality and savagery in the Bible as it reflects the world in which it was formed.

As for disdain, I have none for Christianity, nor Islam, nor Judaism. They all point towards the improving of human nature, when read in a reasonable light, but they are all easy tools for those who would misuse their tenets. My disdain is reserved ONLY for the absurd interpretations that are often made by the followers of said religions. Mark Twain was a man who truly understood the nature of religion, and his insight applies to Christianity as it does to all religion. Thomas Jefferson went straight to the cogent point:

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."   From the Jefferson Memorial Monument in Washington, DC.
Most people think he was referring to George III.   Instead, he was responding to attacks made on him in pamphlets distributed by clergy in Philadelphia during the presidential election of 1800.  These pamphlets accused Jefferson of being unfit to become President because he did not hold Christian beliefs.


Twain has one of the best quotes I know of regarding the bible and how it is so easily adapted for misuse:

The Christian Bible is a drug store. Its contents remain the same; but the medical practice changes.

None of the above is an attack on Christianity per se, it is simply to assert that it is...like all religion. And as such, it is a ready tool for those who would use it for politics or for personal gain.

I stand corrected; your disdain is for Christians, not Christianity per se. 

Oddly enough, I'm not knocking you, I have a lot of reservations about some of the practices of religion.  Many people have used religion, of every sort, as tools. 

But, I have much more admiration for those who are trying to follow the narrow path than those who don't.  And, I do not admire the laziness of thought that allows one to broadly paint all practicing followers of Christianity (because that really is what the religion we are discussing here) as dogmatic ideologues or "socons".   

We'll just have to disagree here, but I do appreciate better understanding where you are coming from.

[Mesaclone]

As I said:  "any that is was appropriated from Judaism and/or Christianity".  Yes, there is brutality and savagery in the Bible as it reflects the world in which it was formed.

I stand corrected; your disdain is for Christians, not Christianity per se. 

Oddly enough, I'm not knocking you, I have a lot of reservations about some of the practices of religion.  Many people have used religion, of every sort, as tools. 

But, I have much more admiration for those who are trying to follow the narrow path than those who don't.  And, I do not admire the laziness of thought that allows one to broadly paint all practicing followers of Christianity (because that really is what the religion we are discussing here) as dogmatic ideologues or "socons".   

We'll just have to disagree here, but I do appreciate better understanding where you are coming from.

And Christianity took its tenants from religious and philosophical views that preceded...Christian sophists have drawn their arguments from ancient Greek philosophy for 2000 years, Plato being a favorite. So its more accurate to say that Christianity, Judaism and Islam all draw from belief systems which preceded them in time...drawing from Sumerian and Egyptian thought (right down to Messiah's and Virgin Births, etcetera).

As for knocking ALL Christians, that's absurd. I've done no such thing, and I'm not sure why you feel the need to build such an obvious Straw Man. I was very specific as to the type of believer I was referring to, and its obvious that does not include "all" or even most Christians. That said, I "knock" people of any faith who elevate their beliefs above reason and common sense...while that is a subjective assessment, no doubt, I'd say thinking the world to be 6000 years old or that two of every animal got on a boat and then propigated the planet qualifies. I consider god to be the epitome of a rational being who would expect no less from those made from the  same "homoiousious".

Which goes to the root of my original question .... the answer to which can discern the rationality of the poster in question.

[Wingnut]

Nice to be so warmly welcomed!  Glad I found you!

BTW...good work on that Avatar thing we discussed !

[DCPatriot]

And Christianity took its tenants from religious and philosophical views that preceded...Christian sophists have drawn their arguments from ancient Greek philosophy for 2000 years, Plato being a favorite. So its more accurate to say that Christianity, Judaism and Islam all draw from belief systems which preceded them in time...drawing from Sumerian and Egyptian thought (right down to Messiah's and Virgin Births, etcetera).

As for knocking ALL Christians, that's absurd. I've done no such thing, and I'm not sure why you feel the need to build such an obvious Straw Man. I was very specific as to the type of believer I was referring to, and its obvious that does not include "all" or even most Christians. That said, I "knock" people of any faith who elevate their beliefs above reason and common sense...while that is a subjective assessment, no doubt, I'd say thinking the world to be 6000 years old or that two of every animal got on a boat and then propigated the planet qualifies. I consider god to be the epitome of a rational being who would expect no less from those made from the  same "homoiousious".

Which goes to the root of my original question .... the answer to which can discern the rationality of the poster in question.

Mesaclone!

You prove me right every day, as evidenced by the quality of your debate and the degree of intelligence between your ears.

And LOVE being able to say, "See?  I told you so!"   

You're a true asset to the forum, sir.

[MACVSOG68]

And Christianity took its tenants from religious and philosophical views that preceded...Christian sophists have drawn their arguments from ancient Greek philosophy for 2000 years, Plato being a favorite. So its more accurate to say that Christianity, Judaism and Islam all draw from belief systems which preceded them in time...drawing from Sumerian and Egyptian thought (right down to Messiah's and Virgin Births, etcetera).

As for knocking ALL Christians, that's absurd. I've done no such thing, and I'm not sure why you feel the need to build such an obvious Straw Man. I was very specific as to the type of believer I was referring to, and its obvious that does not include "all" or even most Christians. That said, I "knock" people of any faith who elevate their beliefs above reason and common sense...while that is a subjective assessment, no doubt, I'd say thinking the world to be 6000 years old or that two of every animal got on a boat and then propigated the planet qualifies. I consider god to be the epitome of a rational being who would expect no less from those made from the  same "homoiousious".

Which goes to the root of my original question .... the answer to which can discern the rationality of the poster in question.

I get it.  But the fact still remains that if the polls can be believed, a fairly large part of the population believes in creationism not either intelligent design or scientific evolution.  So I don't think in matters of faith, discussing scientific rationality is a productive endeavor.  Besides, this thread is about public bathrooms and proper gender etiquette.  Probably why the owners wanted to stay away from religious issues., lol.   

[oldmomster]

BTW...good work on that Avatar thing we discussed !

Thanks!  easy choice when hubby is the John Wayne type 

[geronl]

Yeah that's how you're going to win an election.  Your posts are so silly they are awesome.

I would rather lose than become a leftist.