Author Topic: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives  (Read 6334 times)

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Offline aligncare

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2016, 03:37:41 pm »
They are people who refuse to allow emotion to overrule their good sense!

I have used only research, facts and reasoning to come to my conclusion that Trump can (and will) win the nomination and the general election.

Now, here's the opinion part, I have also concluded that Donald Trump will make a great president and do his part to help make America great again. Ta da!

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2016, 03:40:33 pm »
Fake conservatives' Mitch McConnell s a full fledged conservative like CRUZ, just ask Him?


 :whistle:

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/26/senate-majority-leader-mitch-mcconnell-attorney-heads-pro-cruz-anti-trump-super-pac/

Thanks for posting that link Longiron.  As a person that has liked Cruz - that was enlightening.  It seems some GOP establishment operatives are paying for ads to help Cruz and to attack Trump.  Hmmmm. 

   
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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2016, 03:40:42 pm »
I have used only research, facts and reasoning to come to my conclusion that Trump can (and will) win the nomination and the general election.

Now, here's the opinion part, I have also concluded that Donald Trump will make a great president and do his part to help make America great again. Ta da!

That's why we have elections isn't it? TA DA!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline ArneFufkin

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2016, 03:51:54 pm »
Oh, so now I'm rabid? Well, I guess that's better than being called a Trumpeteer.

Tell me, are Cruz supporters rabid people, or are they, in your esteemed estimation, just Cruz supporters?

Take your time. I don't really need an answer. I know the answer.

You insult the intelligence of this conservative forum by facilitating the charade that Donald Trump is not only a Conservative - which has no real basis in demonstrable fact - but additionally the only "real" Conservative in this field.   It's pure nonsense, an utter fabrication.

There is NOTHING .... NOTHING ... either in his  history or the way he is comporting himself in this campaign that indicates that he is anything but a venal carnival barker with a lot of rubes groveling at his feet.   

Online Bigun

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2016, 04:03:39 pm »
You insult the intelligence of this conservative forum by facilitating the charade that Donald Trump is not only a Conservative - which has no real basis in demonstrable fact - but additionally the only "real" Conservative in this field.   It's pure nonsense, an utter fabrication.

There is NOTHING .... NOTHING ... either in his  history or the way he is comporting himself in this campaign that indicates that he is anything but a venal carnival barker with a lot of rubes groveling at his feet.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:  :patriot:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online DCPatriot

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2016, 04:03:40 pm »
They are people who refuse to allow emotion to overrule their good sense!

Let's try to use a little "good sense" here, okay Bigun?

1) Romney....decent, whole milk Mitt Romney couldn't beat an effing anti-American Socialist....AFTER they experienced FOUR YEARS of his ideology. 

2) Ted Cruz....actually, the SMARTEST guy in any room...is hated by everybody except the the 5+ MILLION Americans who STAYED HOME in 2012.

'Emotion' my foot.    :whistle:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2016, 04:06:10 pm »
Wow. The evidence is incontrovertible. Ted Cruz is not who he says he is. And apparently, neither is Mark Levin.

It seem we have here just another example of politicians (Ted Cruz) using their "conservative" bona fides to aid the establishment--in this case Mitch McConnell, even though ostensibly Cruz hates McConnell, even calling him a liar on the senate floor--in order to get one of them elected into the establishment fold. Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

Very disappointing.

Thanks for bringing that to us, Longiron.

I'm curious.  If I want to go set up a superPAC and support, say Rand Paul, do I have to get Paul's permission to do so?  Do I even have to tell Paul that I am setting up a superPAC, ostensibly for his support?  Just wondering.

Offline aligncare

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2016, 04:09:10 pm »

I said Trump is conservative on three core issues: immigration, national security, jobs.

I got news for you, nobody is voting for the most conservative candidate this election (besides – "I'm the most conservative candidate" line is usually misdirection on the part of feckless politicians anyway).

This time, folks are voting for the most effective leader. If you can't see Trump is running circles around feckless lying "conservatives," establishment types, the media, National Review, well, there's just no hope for you my friend.

I'm voting Trump. Do whatever makes you happy.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2016, 04:09:57 pm »
Thanks for posting that link Longiron.  As a person that has liked Cruz - that was enlightening.  It seems some GOP establishment operatives are paying for ads to help Cruz and to attack Trump.  Hmmmm. 

   

Alice, you might want to read that article a little more critically.

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2016, 04:10:23 pm »
I have used only research, facts and reasoning to come to my conclusion that Trump can (and will) win the nomination and the general election.

Now, here's the opinion part, I have also concluded that Donald Trump will make a great president and do his part to help make America great again. Ta da!

 :patriot:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline Scottftlc

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2016, 04:13:37 pm »
I really should stay out of this...I've promised myself I would stay out these threads because they become useless tit for tat, that ends up insults intended or otherwise between dug-in lines.

What we are seeing is a movement election.  We are either ironing in permanently the Obama movement or we are rejecting it and turning the direction of the entire nation onto a dramatically different course.  An election such as this is not going to be determined solely by the normal, mundane discussion of positions on various issues.  It will be determined by the mass movement of people on very simple, basic themes.  And it will be highly emotionally-charged.  Whether people like it or not, emotion will determine this election.  No position on any issue or set of issues will determine this election, no methodology for "bringing people together" will determine this election.  One side will win and one side will lose and the side that loses will be incensed beyond any ability to come together with the winning side.  It will be the ability to move people with emotion onto one side or the other that will determine this election.

Good sense - as Bigun posted - will not determine this election.  There is not enough "good sense" to do that, and very few people respond to calm "good sense" because no one agrees on what "good sense" is.  Bernie Sander's supporters and many other people think good sense is making large corporations pay 90 percent tax rates.  That is "good sense" to millions and millions of people.  Others think that "good sense" is making abortion illegal and defunding Planned Parenthood.  Many, many people supporting the same exact candidate will not agree on what "good sense" is in the particulars.  That is one reason why emotion will rule the day in this election - people will follow a movement, and to have a movement you must have emotional energy that connects with masses of people, they need to be driven to care about something other than their daily lives.

We've had many elections that were not movement elections...Bush v. Dukakis, Bush v. Kerry, Nixon v. Humphrey, Carter v. Ford, Nixon v. Kennedy.  I call those wonk on wonk elections.  This will not be one of those.  The Obama years have made that determination for us.  And yes, Hitler and Mussolini operated on emotional appeal.  So did Winston Churchill and Ronald Reagan.  Emotions are necessary to create a movement.  If things are going well and you wish to continue along the same trajectory just tweaking things at the margins or creating a novelty, you won't have a movement election.  If you want to entirely change the direction of a nation, you need to engage the emotion of the population - and if you can't you will not win that election nor will you be successful as a leader.

This is also a large part of Hillary's problem.  You will not win this election, or create a movement of "change" without engaging emotion on a massive scale.  If a candidate cannot do that, they will not be successful this year.  Obama set this in motion and the population is now divided, you will not make them see "good sense" because it is your "good sense" not theirs.  You need to win and to do that you need to engage the imagination of the people into a mass movement.  This isn't the stuff for people like McCain or Romney, or Bush or Dole.  This is for someone who can light a huge fire under a mass movement.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 04:14:41 pm by Scottftlc »
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Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2016, 04:22:25 pm »
I really should stay out of this...I've promised myself I would stay out these threads because they become useless tit for tat, that ends up insults intended or otherwise between dug-in lines.

What we are seeing is a movement election.  We are either ironing in permanently the Obama movement or we are rejecting it and turning the direction of the entire nation onto a dramatically different course.  An election such as this is not going to be determined solely by the normal, mundane discussion of positions on various issues.  It will be determined by the mass movement of people on very simple, basic themes.  And it will be highly emotionally-charged.  Whether people like it or not, emotion will determine this election.  No position on any issue or set of issues will determine this election, no methodology for "bringing people together" will determine this election.  One side will win and one side will lose and the side that loses will be incensed beyond any ability to come together with the winning side.  It will be the ability to move people with emotion onto one side or the other that will determine this election.

Good sense - as Bigun posted - will not determine this election.  There is not enough "good sense" to do that, and very few people respond to calm "good sense" because no one agrees on what "good sense" is.  Bernie Sander's supporters and many other people think good sense is making large corporations pay 90 percent tax rates.  That is "good sense" to millions and millions of people.  Others think that "good sense" is making abortion illegal and defunding Planned Parenthood.  Many, many people supporting the same exact candidate will not agree on what "good sense" is in the particulars.  That is one reason why emotion will rule the day in this election - people will follow a movement, and to have a movement you must have emotional energy that connects with masses of people, they need to be driven to care about something other than their daily lives.

We've had many elections that were not movement elections...Bush v. Dukakis, Bush v. Kerry, Nixon v. Humphrey, Carter v. Ford, Nixon v. Kennedy.  I call those wonk on wonk elections.  This will not be one of those.  The Obama years have made that determination for us.  And yes, Hitler and Mussolini operated on emotional appeal.  So did Winston Churchill and Ronald Reagan.  Emotions are necessary to create a movement.  If things are going well and you wish to continue along the same trajectory just tweaking things at the margins or creating a novelty, you won't have a movement election.  If you want to entirely change the direction of a nation, you need to engage the emotion of the population - and if you can't you will not win that election nor will you be successful as a leader.

This is also a large part of Hillary's problem.  You will not win this election, or create a movement of "change" without engaging emotion on a massive scale.  If a candidate cannot do that, they will not be successful this year.  Obama set this in motion and the population is now divided, you will not make them see "good sense" because it is your "good sense" not theirs.  You need to win and to do that you need to engage the imagination of the people into a mass movement.  This isn't the stuff for people like McCain or Romney, or Bush or Dole.  This is for someone who can light a huge fire under a mass movement.

 :hands:

Nailed it, again, Scott.  I wanted to bold-face the entire post, but that would render any emphasis moot, so I chose only two sections.  (But I had to also underline one of them!)  I hope that every member here takes the time to soak in what you have written!

Offline musiclady

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2016, 04:23:24 pm »
Trump's rabid supporters are just a mirror image of the ignorant Obama cultists.   There's no rationality, no logic and no discernment.  Facts don't matter.  History is irrelevant.   It's about the Cult of Personality.   It's about "The Donald", their demigod, who will lead us all to some Promised Land.   

This entire process has become a dismal joke.

I agree completely.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Offline aligncare

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2016, 04:25:38 pm »

Well, this rabid, emotional, 25-year conservative republican didn't like Trump at first. Now I'm voting for him. Go figure.

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2016, 04:26:21 pm »
Alice, you might want to read that article a little more critically.

I think that I did.  Did I miss something?

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Offline Longiron

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2016, 04:28:45 pm »
You insult the intelligence of this conservative forum by facilitating the charade that Donald Trump is not only a Conservative - which has no real basis in demonstrable fact - but additionally the only "real" Conservative in this field.   It's pure nonsense, an utter fabrication.

There is NOTHING .... NOTHING ... either in his  history or the way he is comporting himself in this campaign that indicates that he is anything but a venal carnival barker with a lot of rubes groveling at his feet.

Nope TRUMP is NOT a conservative especially not one of those REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVEs that are in control the HOUISE and SENATE called the UNIPARTY who give Obama everything he wants and any extras so he does not call them racist. TRUMP would never pass the REPUBLICAN CONSERVARIVE Omnibus program. This non CONSERVATIVE TRUMP just wants to:
1. Border Security and STOPPING the illegal alien influx. STOP the MUSLIMS entering this country until we know who they are. What an idiot
2. NOT pass and rebuke the TPP anti US Worker BILL the Republican Conservatives voted for. REALLY stupid guy that TRUMP and maybe he could get a better deal for AMERICA but he is not a conservative.
3. Elimination of the Common Core Program which is the federalization of education standards. That idiot TRUMP wants to do better. We are the number 1 country per pupil in SPENDING in the WORLD but US students rank #28 in the world. 3 rd world countries are ranked better than we are in the US. How dare he question the CONSERVATIVES on Education
4.Repeal and Replace Obamacare. But the Republican Conservatives voted for it and they could have STOPPED it but that would PO Obama and he would not like the CONSERVATIVE Republican Party
5. Get this country to a balance budget and get back to fiscal discipline  and put the word CUT EXPENSES back into Gov't. Nope that is not conservative. just ask the REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVE PARTY.

NEXT? :patriot:
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 04:31:15 pm by Longiron »

Offline aligncare

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2016, 04:29:06 pm »

An attorney for Senate majority leader McConnell is running a super PAC promoting Ted Cruz.

Doesn't that seem just a little bit odd to anybody?

Or are we ready to excuse Ted Cruz's establishment ties because we hate Donald Trump?

Offline EC

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2016, 04:43:31 pm »
An attorney for Senate majority leader McConnell is running a super PAC promoting Ted Cruz.

Doesn't that seem just a little bit odd to anybody?


Depends on if I think the attorney is McConnell in disguise, rather than taking McConnell's cash to represent him once.

I'm not a moron, so no, it doesn't seem odd in the slightest. If you wound up crunching de Blabbio's back tomorrow, would that make you his tool?
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Offline alicewonders

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2016, 04:46:46 pm »
An attorney for Senate majority leader McConnell is running a super PAC promoting Ted Cruz.

Doesn't that seem just a little bit odd to anybody?

Or are we ready to excuse Ted Cruz's establishment ties because we hate Donald Trump?

But...but - the establishment HATES Ted Cruz - he called McConnell a liar!  Why are they running ads in support of Cruz and ads opposing Trump?

 

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Offline Longiron

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2016, 04:47:03 pm »
Thanks for posting that link Longiron.  As a person that has liked Cruz - that was enlightening.  It seems some GOP establishment operatives are paying for ads to help Cruz and to attack Trump.  Hmmmm. 

   

CRUZ is a good guy and I hope he and TRUMP form a team after all this goes by the way side. HIS problem is BECK and Beck must have recently got CRUZ on some of his bad drugs and booze. TC is losing it and he better get away for BECK. JMO  :patriot:

Offline alicewonders

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2016, 04:55:47 pm »
Depends on if I think the attorney is McConnell in disguise, rather than taking McConnell's cash to represent him once.

I'm not a moron, so no, it doesn't seem odd in the slightest. If you wound up crunching de Blabbio's back tomorrow, would that make you his tool?

He is definitely what I would call a GOP insider with ties to the establishment. 

I think the question it raises is - why is an establishment insider running a PAC to help Ted Cruz?



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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2016, 04:55:54 pm »
But...but - the establishment HATES Ted Cruz - he called McConnell a liar!  Why are they running ads in support of Cruz and ads opposing Trump?

 

Well, it could be several reasons.  They know that with the slightest hint of "establishmentism", the targeted voters will dump Cruz and/or even more vociferously support Trump, so:

1. They want to eliminate both Cruz and Trump, and making it look like McConnell backs Cruz in attacking Trump through a superpac.
2. They want Cruz and not Trump. The first is highly unlikely, the latter somewhat less so.
3. They want Trump and not Cruz and...see #1.  I think that is at least slightly more likely than #2, and intro sentence on the effects of establishmentism smears.

I dunno, knowing these snakes in Congress, what do you think?

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2016, 05:01:59 pm »
Quote
I think the question it raises is - why is an establishment insider running a PAC to help Ted Cruz?

In order to muddy the waters even further!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline EC

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2016, 05:20:26 pm »
I think the question it raises is - why is an establishment insider running a PAC to help Ted Cruz?

He wants to?
He's got experience in running PACs and got tapped to be treasurer because he's the only member of the Republican Lawyers association in Kentucky that has experience with it?
To confuse people, like Bigun said?

https://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2015/12/11/there-are-now-8-super-pacs-supporting-ted-cruzs-2016-run/
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Cruz to tea party supporters: Don't get 'burned' by fake conservatives
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2016, 05:24:32 pm »
He wants to?
He's got experience in running PACs and got tapped to be treasurer because he's the only member of the Republican Lawyers association in Kentucky that has experience with it?
To confuse people, like Bigun said?

https://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2015/12/11/there-are-now-8-super-pacs-supporting-ted-cruzs-2016-run/

Yep. 

My (mostly rhetorical) questions got ignored: "If I want to go set up a superPAC and support, say Rand Paul, do I have to get Paul's permission to do so?  Do I even have to tell Paul that I am setting up a superPAC, ostensibly for his support?  Just wondering."