The Briefing Room

General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: endicom on May 18, 2017, 02:10:04 pm

Title: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: endicom on May 18, 2017, 02:10:04 pm
Townhall
Kurt Schlichter
May, 18, 2017

The blizzard of lies and distraction blowing through Washington is not just any routine stuffstorm, but a calculated attempt to bring down a president – our president, not the establishment’s president. And more than that, it’s an attempt to ensure that we never again have the ability to disrupt the bipartisan D.C. cabal’s permanent supremacy by inserting a chief executive who refuses to kiss their collective Reid.

This is a coup against us. It’s a coordinated campaign by liberals and their allies in the bureaucracy and media to once and for all ensure their perpetual rule over us. We need to fight it, here and now, so we don’t have to fight it down at the bottom of this slippery slope.

More... https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2017/05/18/this-is-a-coup-against-our-right-to-govern-ourselves-n2328059
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Cripplecreek on May 18, 2017, 02:14:30 pm
Kurt Schlichter is a joke.

He spent months deriding Trump voters as ethically and morally degenerate until he decided to join them. He's just giving Trump the usual back alley behind the dumpster service.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: libertybele on May 18, 2017, 02:22:34 pm
Kurt Schlichter is a joke.

He spent months deriding Trump voters as ethically and morally degenerate until he decided to join them. He's just giving Trump the usual back alley behind the dumpster service.

The premise that there is a coup going on and a coordinated campaign by liberals and their allies in the bureaucracy and media to once and for all ensure their perpetual rule over us is definitely no joke. 

We damn well start fighting back or we will lose this country ... we are on the brink.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: XenaLee on May 18, 2017, 02:27:49 pm
Kurt Schlichter is a joke.

He spent months deriding Trump voters as ethically and morally degenerate until he decided to join them. He's just giving Trump the usual back alley behind the dumpster service.

So..... the fact that he speaks the truth here (in this article) means nothing to you?  You would rather spin it in typical negative fashion into something nefarious?

Got it.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: andy58-in-nh on May 18, 2017, 02:54:13 pm
The premise that there is a coup going on and a coordinated campaign by liberals and their allies in the bureaucracy and media to once and for all ensure their perpetual rule over us is definitely no joke. 

We damn well start fighting back or we will lose this country ... we are on the brink.

You are correct.

Anyone who has watched the "news" lately on the major networks or read the screaming headlines issuing forth daily from the NYT-WaPo Axis knows or ought to know that something both coordinated and unprecedented is happening.

And it ought to scare the hell out of you, because our culture is increasingly made of brittle and dry tinder, just waiting for a match.

I am no big fan of Donald Trump, as anyone here knows. The right reasons, the right time... but the wrong guy. His character and experience, or rather the lack of both have made him the perfect target for a Perfect Storm of Progressive bureaucrats, media mongers, institutionally-funded social justice warriors and congressional staffers, who are all working together to reverse the result of the 2016 election and stop the Republican agenda cold in its tracks.

And that, I am certain, is just for starters.   
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Bigun on May 18, 2017, 02:56:29 pm
The premise that there is a coup going on and a coordinated campaign by liberals and their allies in the bureaucracy and media to once and for all ensure their perpetual rule over us is definitely no joke. 

We damn well start fighting back or we will lose this country ... we are on the brink.

B I N G O ! ! !
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: kevindavis007 on May 18, 2017, 02:59:05 pm
Does he have proof of just spouting BS without proof???
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: ABX on May 18, 2017, 03:05:59 pm
This isn't a coup, it is a reality TV show with characters and made up drama. The conspiracies, outrage, drama, romance, villians, and heroes are all molded to fit with a narriative.  This isn't 'against' the people, it is targeting what the people want, drama, to keep their eyes glued to the media providers who are running the show.  Like with most reality shows, none of the characters are who you want them to be, they are playing a role.

When we 'fight back' we have to start with ourselves and what we demand of our information, media, and even government. We want it to entertain us and solve our problems. We created this monster.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: kevindavis007 on May 18, 2017, 03:08:03 pm
This isn't a coup, it is a reality TV show with characters and made up drama. The conspiracies, outrage, drama, romance, villians, and heroes are all molded to fit with a narriative.  This isn't 'against' the people, it is targeting what the people want, drama, to keep their eyes glued to the media providers who are running the show.  Like with most reality shows, none of the characters are who you want them to be, they are playing a role.

When we 'fight back' we have to start with ourselves and what we demand of our information, media, and even government. We want it to entertain us and solve our problems. We created this monster.


 :amen:
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Cripplecreek on May 18, 2017, 03:08:46 pm
You are correct.

Anyone who has watched the "news" lately on the major networks or read the screaming headlines issuing forth daily from the NYT-WaPo Axis knows or ought to know that something both coordinated and unprecedented is happening.

And it ought to scare the hell out of you, because our culture is increasingly made of brittle and dry tinder, just waiting for a match.

I am no big fan of Donald Trump, as anyone here knows. The right reasons, the right time... but the wrong guy. His character and experience, or rather the lack of both have made him the perfect target for a Perfect Storm of Progressive bureaucrats, media mongers, institutionally-funded social justice warriors and congressional staffers, who are all working together to reverse the result of the 2016 election and stop the Republican agenda cold in its tracks.

And that, I am certain, is just for starters.   

Exactly why we opposed Trump. We knew this would happen and now we're going to lose badly. The democrats couldn't have chosen a better political suicide bomber than Trump and the "republican agenda" has already been stopped in its tracks both through deliberate action and incompetence of Trump.

There is no hope of winning a fight for conservatism, constitutionalism or federalism with a man who doesn't care about them. We've already lost and at best we'll only lose a decade.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: jmyrlefuller on May 18, 2017, 03:09:20 pm
After Obama got elected twice, I'm no longer convinced the American people are capable of governing themselves.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: driftdiver on May 18, 2017, 03:12:22 pm

 :amen:

@kevindavis @AbaraXas
Goeorge Soros is behind the scenes pulling strings.  Its a coup.   His goal, along with the other elites, is to implement a global socialist government. 
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Ghost Bear on May 18, 2017, 03:14:15 pm
After Obama got elected twice, I'm no longer convinced the American people are capable of governing themselves.

Yup, I'll agree with you on that. Although I would add, Obama twice, and Trump once (so far).   10294
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: kevindavis007 on May 18, 2017, 03:14:24 pm
@kevindavis @AbaraXas
Goeorge Soros is behind the scenes pulling strings.  Its a coup.   His goal, along with the other elites, is to implement a global socialist government.


@driftdriver


Prove it...
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: endicom on May 18, 2017, 03:15:46 pm
The premise that there is a coup going on and a coordinated campaign by liberals and their allies in the bureaucracy and media to once and for all ensure their perpetual rule over us is definitely no joke. 

We damn well start fighting back or we will lose this country ... we are on the brink.


I would quibble only with 'coup' as the entrenched are right now fighting to stay entrenched rather than to expand. They must first fight any move by Trump to reduce their power before seeking the next opportunity to expand that power.

But that's quibbling.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: endicom on May 18, 2017, 03:22:04 pm
Exactly why we opposed Trump. We knew this would happen and now we're going to lose badly. The democrats couldn't have chosen a better political suicide bomber than Trump and the "republican agenda" has already been stopped in its tracks both through deliberate action and incompetence of Trump.


What should now be obvious is that there has been no 'Republican agenda.' What should now be obvious is that a President Cruz attempting reform would have been bulldozed like a Corrie.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Bigun on May 18, 2017, 03:26:13 pm

I would quibble only with 'coup' as the entrenched are right now fighting to stay entrenched rather than to expand. They must first fight any move by Trump to reduce their power before seeking the next opportunity to expand that power.

But that's quibbling.

It isn't really a coup because they KNOW that in the end it will all add up to a big nothing but it IS preventing swamp draining and THAT is the objective!
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Bigun on May 18, 2017, 03:28:58 pm

What should now be obvious is that there has been no 'Republican agenda.' What should now be obvious is that a President Cruz attempting reform would have been bulldozed like a Corrie.

ANY republican elected this cycle would have been treated exactly the same! The left is completely out of power and thus desperate!  This a no holds barred war! Make no mistake about that!
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: guitar4jesus on May 18, 2017, 03:31:48 pm
If it's a coup it begs the question which side is Trump on?  His twitter feed is the liberal's greatest weapon.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: driftdiver on May 18, 2017, 03:35:34 pm

@driftdriver


Prove it...

Prove what?   All of it is well documented and they've made public statements about it.

You have to break it before you can fix it.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 18, 2017, 03:36:22 pm
Kurt Schlichter is a joke.

He spent months deriding Trump voters as ethically and morally degenerate until he decided to join them. He's just giving Trump the usual back alley behind the dumpster service.

It sounds to me like Schlichter is standing for the US Constitution and against a coup against a duly elected President.

Why do you resent this so much?   @Cripplecreek

Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 18, 2017, 03:37:21 pm
If it's a coup it begs the question which side is Trump on?  His twitter feed is the liberal's greatest weapon.

What a ridiculous question.   *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: ABX on May 18, 2017, 03:37:24 pm
If it's a coup it begs the question which side is Trump on?  His twitter feed is the liberal's greatest weapon.

One can make the argument is the enemy's arm's dealer. Kind of like those guys in Florida who were arming Iraqi insurgents under the guise of working for our own State Department.

The reality is the 'enemy' is centralized authortarian government and the left and right are playing the game together. They aren't battling against the people as though we are an opponent, we are the spoils of war they want. The game is being played like a reality TV show (or wrasslin match) and the battlefield is the media, who can get the most eyes on their story at any time and who can demand from their side a government champion.

Demanding a government champion (on either side) in this battle is like rooting for the wrassler you like on the WWE to beat the other guy for you... the point is completely missed that they are all characters.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 18, 2017, 03:38:10 pm
ANY republican elected this cycle would have been treated exactly the same! The left is completely out of power and thus desperate!  This a no holds barred war! Make no mistake about that!

 :thumbsup3:
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: jpsb on May 18, 2017, 03:38:39 pm
Exactly why we opposed Trump. We knew this would happen and now we're going to lose badly. The democrats couldn't have chosen a better political suicide bomber than Trump and the "republican agenda" has already been stopped in its tracks both through deliberate action and incompetence of Trump.

There is no hope of winning a fight for conservatism, constitutionalism or federalism with a man who doesn't care about them. We've already lost and at best we'll only lose a decade.

Still wishing Hillary was elected I see. 

The author is exactly right, the uniparty elites funded by your pal George Soros are attempting to overturn the results of our election. If they succeed America as we know it is finished. We will join the global socialist government and we will be serfs in all but name. Just imagine one big Mexico with a tiny very wealthy ruling class, a small professional middle class that works for the ruling class and a huge impoverished lower class. 
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: libertybele on May 18, 2017, 03:45:05 pm
Does he have proof of just spouting BS without proof???

I would politely ask you to pull your head out of the sand for a minute.  How much proof do you need??  Do you ever recall at anytime, the DEMS and the RINO's state that he will be a one term president and they will make sure of it?  Do you ever recall the Clinton campaign stating that the Russians hacked the system (even though not connected to the internet) and that's why she lost?  The lies and accusations have never stopped.  The attacks are now on a daily basis and I'm not buying into what's being fed to us for a second in order to control us. 

If we don't help this President and support him, I sincerely hope that everyone has prepared to some degree or another with; water, food, gold, silver, guns and some ammo. 
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: FreeReign on May 18, 2017, 04:01:25 pm
Kurt Schlichter is a joke.

He spent months deriding Trump voters as ethically and morally degenerate until he decided to join them. He's just giving Trump the usual back alley behind the dumpster service.

Schlichter has criticized Trump from the right and he defends Trump against the left. How terrible.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Doug Loss on May 18, 2017, 05:02:43 pm
You see, this is why some of us are pushing for an Article V convention.  It's something that hasn't been tried before, and that the administrative state doesn't know how to fight and is terrified of.  As for Trump, I wish him well and will be happy to support his actions when he does constitutional, liberty-affirming things.  I'll oppose him when he does unconstitutional, liberty-decreasing things.  But I'll put most of my efforts into making the things he (and the rest of the federal government) does less important and having less effect on the American people.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: geronl on May 18, 2017, 08:49:54 pm
Hysterical Hyperbole
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: GrouchoTex on May 18, 2017, 09:11:18 pm
This isn't a coup, it is a reality TV show with characters and made up drama. The conspiracies, outrage, drama, romance, villians, and heroes are all molded to fit with a narriative.  This isn't 'against' the people, it is targeting what the people want, drama, to keep their eyes glued to the media providers who are running the show.  Like with most reality shows, none of the characters are who you want them to be, they are playing a role.

When we 'fight back' we have to start with ourselves and what we demand of our information, media, and even government. We want it to entertain us and solve our problems. We created this monster.

I happen to agree. The media basically created Trump, and Trump craved the attention the media gives him.
Trump is good for ratings.

I've said before, there is a symbiotic nature or a parasite/host thing going on.
Now that The relationship has gotten strained, Trump calls them "fake news" and the media finds fault with every little slight, we should remember, the media outnumbers Trump.

Is it a coup against our very way of life?
I think there are fringe elements on the left, that would want that.
But, no, I don't think this is the end of the Republic.

No, this is merely the MSM going after Trump, but it not as if he didn't asked for it.
Of course, the media should be called out for their overzealous attempts to make Trump out to be worse than he is.
Yet,  Trump, will, and has, said things just to get the media talking about him.
Should he be called out for that?
I think so.
 I actually heard Steve Bannon on Breitbart Radio, back during the primaries, before Trump won, and put him on his staff, call Trump out on one of Thump's exaggerated claims.
We should hold both accountable.
There are massive egos on both sides of this relationship, and either will not give in unless we start calling them out.
Call BS on anyone in the media stirring this up, and on all politicians who do it as well.

Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: geronl on May 18, 2017, 09:55:11 pm


I've said before, there is a symbiotic nature or a parasite/host thing going on.
Now that The relationship has gotten strained, Trump calls them "fake news" and the media finds fault with every little slight, we should remember, the media outnumbers Trump.

All part of the show. Both sides are pretending Trump is something he isn't.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: roamer_1 on May 18, 2017, 10:14:11 pm

The reality is the 'enemy' is centralized authortarian government and the left and right are playing the game together. They aren't battling against the people as though we are an opponent, we are the spoils of war they want. The game is being played like a reality TV show (or wrasslin match) and the battlefield is the media, who can get the most eyes on their story at any time and who can demand from their side a government champion

There it is.

Quote
Demanding a government champion (on either side) in this battle is like rooting for the wrassler you like on the WWE to beat the other guy for you... the point is completely missed that they are all characters.

Shades of Mocking Jay... And inevitably right.

Which is why I vote on record, and pay no mind at all to the show. Which all Conservatives used to do.
It is no guarantee, but it approximates one. A man's record is 99% of the time, more about who he is, than what he says.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 18, 2017, 10:37:51 pm
This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves -

That made me laugh.

This people have little desire to govern themselves.  They look to politics for salvation; they desire men to rule them; see government as their god and Arbiter of all things fair; to administer Payback and punishment by those lions they see as their generals while rejecting and resisting the very Fundamental things necessary for a free people to be self-governing.

They don't want to hear about it because they say God isn't running for office and we must take our picks from lesser men who demonstrate a sufficient lack of character and morality.  There is no perfect, and therefore striving for it makes you an enemy of good.

They are not interested in hearing about the very heart, soul and keys that would enable them to be self-governing.  They have placed all of their faith in the institutions of men, politicians and other people instead of that which created Liberty as we were gifted to begin with.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2017, 10:40:03 pm
One can make the argument is the enemy's arm's dealer. Kind of like those guys in Florida who were arming Iraqi insurgents under the guise of working for our own State Department.

The reality is the 'enemy' is centralized authortarian government and the left and right are playing the game together. They aren't battling against the people as though we are an opponent, we are the spoils of war they want. The game is being played like a reality TV show (or wrasslin match) and the battlefield is the media, who can get the most eyes on their story at any time and who can demand from their side a government champion.

Demanding a government champion (on either side) in this battle is like rooting for the wrassler you like on the WWE to beat the other guy for you... the point is completely missed that they are all characters.
Just like rasslin', when the show is over, they'll all get their cut.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Taxcontrol on May 18, 2017, 10:41:08 pm
Yup, I'll agree with you on that. Although I would add, Obama twice, and Trump once (so far).   10294

Just remember a country gets the government it deserves.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: geronl on May 18, 2017, 10:52:24 pm
The Trump Side has a war cry: "This is a coup against our right to poop ourselves!"
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Hoodat on May 19, 2017, 02:50:47 am
Still wishing Hillary was elected I see. 

Still wishing the Republicans had nominated a Conservative with principle and integrity and the courage to stand on them no matter what.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on May 19, 2017, 02:58:21 am
You are correct.

Anyone who has watched the "news" lately on the major networks or read the screaming headlines issuing forth daily from the NYT-WaPo Axis knows or ought to know that something both coordinated and unprecedented is happening.

And it ought to scare the hell out of you, because our culture is increasingly made of brittle and dry tinder, just waiting for a match.

I am no big fan of Donald Trump, as anyone here knows. The right reasons, the right time... but the wrong guy. His character and experience, or rather the lack of both have made him the perfect target for a Perfect Storm of Progressive bureaucrats, media mongers, institutionally-funded social justice warriors and congressional staffers, who are all working together to reverse the result of the 2016 election and stop the Republican agenda cold in its tracks.

And that, I am certain, is just for starters.   

Trump's problems are of his own making. Any GOPer was bound to take heat. Even Romney.

I'm tired of Trump and his moron defenders not allowing him to take any blame. And I simply don't accept it.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 19, 2017, 02:58:27 am
Kurt Schlichter is a joke.

He spent months deriding Trump voters as ethically and morally degenerate until he decided to join them. He's just giving Trump the usual back alley behind the dumpster service.

Could you anti-Trump people please stop making nasty references.  Mystery had to caution people on that dump Trump thread.

Can't we be grownups here.

As for that post by Schlicter, he is exactly right.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on May 19, 2017, 02:59:29 am
Could you anti-Trump people please stop making nasty references.  Mystery had to caution people on that dump Trump thread.

Can't we be grownups here.

As for that post by Schlicter, he is exactly right.

Good lord you Trumpsters are a bunch of little whiny babies. You're worse than your hero.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: corbe on May 19, 2017, 03:00:28 am
The Trump Side has a war cry: "This is a coup against our right to poop ourselves!"

  @geronl
   Must be something in the water around here  :beer: 
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 19, 2017, 03:03:56 am
The premise that there is a coup going on and a coordinated campaign by liberals and their allies in the bureaucracy and media to once and for all ensure their perpetual rule over us is definitely no joke. 

We damn well start fighting back or we will lose this country ... we are on the brink.

Way too many people simply do not understand that or refuse to listen.

They are way too caught up in their own rhetoric and dislike of Trump to see the big picture.

The big picture is not Trump...you may not like him but he is not the enemy.

The enemy is the left, enraged at losing an election they KNEW they would win, they are throwing all their resources into damaging or destroying a duly elected President.  Whether you voted for him or not... whether you like him or not ... he was elected and he has done nothing to warrant the attacks or the impeachment cries from the left.

I have literally begged all these whiners to tell me what they want.  They cannot or they will not.

I can only assume they want to vent whatever the consequences.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 19, 2017, 03:05:56 am
Does he have proof of just spouting BS without proof???

So ... suddenly spouting BS without proof offends you when it's someone making sense.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: corbe on May 19, 2017, 03:07:12 am
   Woe there @Weird Tolkienish Figure hold that mule @Emjay is a lady, due respect, yea, her politics can be far away from us as where she lives, at times, but this sappy ba$tard Will defend her integrity- for at least a little while, till she really steps off the deep end for which she has not, yet.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on May 19, 2017, 03:08:42 am
   Woe there @Weird Tolkienish Figure hold that mule @Emjay is a lady, due respect, yea, she her politics can be far away from us as where she lives, at times, but this sappy ba$tard Will defend her integrity- for at least a little while, till she really steps off the deep end for which she has not, yet.

She's full of shit. There's more than enough nastiness coming from the Trumpsters.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 19, 2017, 03:08:55 am
If it's a coup it begs the question which side is Trump on?  His twitter feed is the liberal's greatest weapon.

This is a common misconception.  Trump has tweeted nothing actionable.  He's tweeted what he's thinking at that particular moment.  He's always done this.  Get over it.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: flowers on May 19, 2017, 03:11:56 am
Could you anti-Trump people please stop making nasty references.  Mystery had to caution people on that dump Trump thread.

Can't we be grownups here.

Don't hold your breath @Emjay
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 19, 2017, 03:12:33 am
Still wishing Hillary was elected I see. 

The author is exactly right, the uniparty elites funded by your pal George Soros are attempting to overturn the results of our election. If they succeed America as we know it is finished. We will join the global socialist government and we will be serfs in all but name. Just imagine one big Mexico with a tiny very wealthy ruling class, a small professional middle class that works for the ruling class and a huge impoverished lower class.

You are correct.  Totally.  But I must remind you that a certain group of posters here have forbidden us to mention Hillary. 

They are like  .... oh, bringing out the Hillary weapon again to defend Trump.

You will be attacked for it in 3 .. 2 ...1
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 19, 2017, 03:15:54 am
I would politely ask you to pull your head out of the sand for a minute.  How much proof do you need??  Do you ever recall at anytime, the DEMS and the RINO's state that he will be a one term president and they will make sure of it?  Do you ever recall the Clinton campaign stating that the Russians hacked the system (even though not connected to the internet) and that's why she lost?  The lies and accusations have never stopped.  The attacks are now on a daily basis and I'm not buying into what's being fed to us for a second in order to control us. 

If we don't help this President and support him, I sincerely hope that everyone has prepared to some degree or another with; water, food, gold, silver, guns and some ammo.

I'm not buying into it either but it's amazing how many people are lapping it up with apparent joy.

They won't tell me what they want to accomplish by this.  Do they know?  Or care?

The sirens went off for an hour here.  They are warning of a tsunami in which case we're supposed to head for the hills.  I think they warn too much.  When one comes, we may not head for the hills.

But the warnings here should be heeded.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: corbe on May 19, 2017, 03:16:41 am
   It's possible that the recent influx of all the homeless, disillusioned Freepers suddenly that has your panties in a wad and she, like our other Resident Trumpsters do feel emboldened by them, but that's still no reason to take it out on her.  @Emjay   pick on someone your own size

(https://dionwynhughes.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/2613127673_4965c41ef1.jpg)
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 19, 2017, 03:17:29 am
You see, this is why some of us are pushing for an Article V convention.  It's something that hasn't been tried before, and that the administrative state doesn't know how to fight and is terrified of.  As for Trump, I wish him well and will be happy to support his actions when he does constitutional, liberty-affirming things.  I'll oppose him when he does unconstitutional, liberty-decreasing things.  But I'll put most of my efforts into making the things he (and the rest of the federal government) does less important and having less effect on the American people.

That's an excellent goal but you will be far less likely to accomplish it if the left somehow regains power during this attempted coup.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 19, 2017, 03:19:03 am
All part of the show. Both sides are pretending Trump is something he isn't.

Well, he is President and I'm not pretending that.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 19, 2017, 03:21:54 am
Good lord you Trumpsters are a bunch of little whiny babies. You're worse than your hero.

I prefer not to see nasty posts with all sorts of vulgar insinuations.  If you think posting gutter stuff is grownup, I have news for you.

It is possible to express yourself without that ... at least it is for me ... you should try it.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 19, 2017, 03:23:57 am
   Woe there @Weird Tolkienish Figure hold that mule @Emjay is a lady, due respect, yea, her politics can be far away from us as where she lives, at times, but this sappy ba$tard Will defend her integrity- for at least a little while, till she really steps off the deep end for which she has not, yet.

Corbe, you are my hero ... until I say something you don't like which I will probably do in the next five minutes.  Seriously, I appreciate it.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: DCPatriot on May 19, 2017, 03:29:03 am
Corbe, you are my hero ... until I say something you don't like which I will probably do in the next five minutes.  Seriously, I appreciate it.

@Emjay

You make me smile, constantly, dear.    ^-^
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: corbe on May 19, 2017, 03:35:11 am
Corbe, you are my hero ... until I say something you don't like which I will probably do in the next five minutes.  Seriously, I appreciate it.

   Hey Honey as obnoxious as you can be politically I will always give YOU the benefit of the doubt.

   PS: I will change my Avatar (more boobs) if you will change yours, I'll admit I'm homophobic.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on May 19, 2017, 03:35:26 am
I prefer not to see nasty posts with all sorts of vulgar insinuations.  If you think posting gutter stuff is grownup, I have news for you.

It is possible to express yourself without that ... at least it is for me ... you should try it.

You are like the biggest whiner on here. Oh poor Trump! Leave him alone.  8888crybaby
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Hoodat on May 19, 2017, 03:49:02 am
PS: I will change my Avatar (more boobs) if you will change yours, I'll admit I'm homophobic.

@Emjay  - Please, please, please change your avatar!

(jk)
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: anubias on May 19, 2017, 04:01:20 am
You are like the biggest whiner on here. Oh poor Trump! Leave him alone.  8888crybaby

Look who is calling who a whiner.   You are the second biggest


REMOVED BY MOD 3  YOU AREN'T AS CLEVER AS YOU THINK YOU ARE.

here.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 19, 2017, 04:12:36 am
Could you anti-Trump people please stop making nasty references.  Mystery had to caution people on that dump Trump thread.

Can't we be grownups here.

As for that post by Schlicter, he is exactly right.
Myst objected to the "rectum" reference. Need I remind you who made that?

In answer to your question, apparently not. Four months in and the tired canards persist about supporting a Democrat footnote (until she is convicted, which may never happen), and even the allegation that people are anti-trump. I wasn't a fanboi, but his "supporters" are more than enough to turn away the most devout, not to mention folks who were just at the point of giving him a clean slate from the day he was sworn in.
Nope, that is just not good enough, you want total fealty.
That deal just isn't going to happen.

But with true GOP form, you ARE succeeding at alienating a significant portion of the people who might support the President when you need them the most, just like was done with the whole "we don't want you, we don't need you Conservatives" hateful garbage started at the Convention and continued to this day.
 
That we would not even want to be associated, politically, morally, socially, with such a hateful group just follows with the garbage dumped on us daily, as does some degree of schadenfreude that he who lied his way to the nomination is now getting a similar treatment from the MSM.

Now, we understand that the fate of the country is in his not so ample hands, but perhaps it would be best to reconsider the apparent policy of alienating potential support at every turn. Any time we are even tempted to speak well of something he has done, and there are a few things, even if they have been negated by other members of the administration, we find ourselves once again locked in combat to defend our positions in re our principles.

It is as if you don't want us to have anything good to say, just so you can collectively complain that we don't have anything good to say, and if we happen to have a decent discussion going on one of you jumps in and starts spattering the monkey house glass all over again.

Frankly, it's tedious, and beginning to convince me the purveyors of the tactic are the same.
You aren't exactly winning hearts and minds, there.
When the Democrats take over, and they will if y'all persist, you'll all whine and point the finger at Conservatives, not even realizing you have become just like the Leftists you claim to despise.
What grieves me most is not the nonsense you are all playing at, but that this will destroy the Republic my people, my family, have been involved in for over 100 years before its inception. For that, May Almighty God reward you as you so richly deserve.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 19, 2017, 04:36:15 am

But with true GOP form, you ARE succeeding at alienating a significant portion of the people who might support the President when you need them the most, just like was done with the whole "we don't want you, we don't need you Conservatives" hateful garbage started at the Convention and continued to this day.

They willfully choose to forget that fact, and continue to berate us to this very hour that refusal to support Trump is supporting Hillary/The Left/The Coup etc., etc., etc.

They told us to get lost then.

They can get lost now.
 
perhaps it would be best to reconsider the apparent policy of alienating potential support at every turn. Any time we are even tempted to speak well of something he has done, and there are a few things, even if they have been negated by other members of the administration, we find ourselves once again locked in combat to defend our positions in re our principles.

Because that is what they despise most and the fact is they are not interested in support of any kind unless it is total fealty and submission to Trump in whom they have vested all their faith and hope of salvation and preservation against the Commie Coup they are certain will doom us to oblivion if Trump is mired down in what they attempt to throw at him (even if he hands them the ammunition).

You aren't exactly winning hearts and minds, there.
They were never interested in persuasion.  They were interested only in beating refuseniks into submission or pointing their fingers in our face to scream that they "won" and we were all "Losers".  That is their be all, end all.  And now real life has transcended reality TV and they have run off what would have been natural allies to compete and total indifference or opposition.

When the Democrats take over, and they will if y'all persist, you'll all whine and point the finger at Conservatives, not even realizing you have become just like the Leftists you claim to despise.

If they do not recognize that fact now, they are never going to then either.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: MOD3 on May 19, 2017, 10:04:50 am
Let me tell all the new members that have arrived in the last two days and remind the old timer's here, there is a language filter in place on this forum for a reason.

The owner like to run a fairly clean ship language wise and while some very mild profanity is allowed, the language you'd expect to hear from Andrew Dice Clay is not permitted, and that included in picture form.

Keep trying to beat the language filters with vulgarities and you'll find yourself on the outside looking in.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: txradioguy on May 19, 2017, 10:14:49 am
Still wishing the Republicans had nominated a Conservative with principle and integrity and the courage to stand on them no matter what.

I'm still wishing that jpsb would come up with mew material.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Lando Lincoln on May 19, 2017, 10:47:35 am
Myst objected to the "rectum" reference. Need I remind you who made that?

In answer to your question, apparently not. Four months in and the tired canards persist about supporting a Democrat footnote (until she is convicted, which may never happen), and even the allegation that people are anti-trump. I wasn't a fanboi, but his "supporters" are more than enough to turn away the most devout, not to mention folks who were just at the point of giving him a clean slate from the day he was sworn in.
Nope, that is just not good enough, you want total fealty.
That deal just isn't going to happen.

But with true GOP form, you ARE succeeding at alienating a significant portion of the people who might support the President when you need them the most, just like was done with the whole "we don't want you, we don't need you Conservatives" hateful garbage started at the Convention and continued to this day.
 
That we would not even want to be associated, politically, morally, socially, with such a hateful group just follows with the garbage dumped on us daily, as does some degree of schadenfreude that he who lied his way to the nomination is now getting a similar treatment from the MSM.

Now, we understand that the fate of the country is in his not so ample hands, but perhaps it would be best to reconsider the apparent policy of alienating potential support at every turn. Any time we are even tempted to speak well of something he has done, and there are a few things, even if they have been negated by other members of the administration, we find ourselves once again locked in combat to defend our positions in re our principles.

It is as if you don't want us to have anything good to say, just so you can collectively complain that we don't have anything good to say, and if we happen to have a decent discussion going on one of you jumps in and starts spattering the monkey house glass all over again.

Frankly, it's tedious, and beginning to convince me the purveyors of the tactic are the same.
You aren't exactly winning hearts and minds, there.
When the Democrats take over, and they will if y'all persist, you'll all whine and point the finger at Conservatives, not even realizing you have become just like the Leftists you claim to despise.
What grieves me most is not the nonsense you are all playing at, but that this will destroy the Republic my people, my family, have been involved in for over 100 years before its inception. For that, May Almighty God reward you as you so richly deserve.

Very well - and correctly - stated.  I willingly want to support the President and I have expressed my approval at times (such as Justice Gorsuch).  For some, that is not enough.  It is, as you say, tedious and alienating.  :patriot:
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: txradioguy on May 19, 2017, 10:55:09 am
Myst objected to the "rectum" reference. Need I remind you who made that?

In answer to your question, apparently not. Four months in and the tired canards persist about supporting a Democrat footnote (until she is convicted, which may never happen), and even the allegation that people are anti-trump. I wasn't a fanboi, but his "supporters" are more than enough to turn away the most devout, not to mention folks who were just at the point of giving him a clean slate from the day he was sworn in.
Nope, that is just not good enough, you want total fealty.
That deal just isn't going to happen.

But with true GOP form, you ARE succeeding at alienating a significant portion of the people who might support the President when you need them the most, just like was done with the whole "we don't want you, we don't need you Conservatives" hateful garbage started at the Convention and continued to this day.
 
That we would not even want to be associated, politically, morally, socially, with such a hateful group just follows with the garbage dumped on us daily, as does some degree of schadenfreude that he who lied his way to the nomination is now getting a similar treatment from the MSM.

Now, we understand that the fate of the country is in his not so ample hands, but perhaps it would be best to reconsider the apparent policy of alienating potential support at every turn. Any time we are even tempted to speak well of something he has done, and there are a few things, even if they have been negated by other members of the administration, we find ourselves once again locked in combat to defend our positions in re our principles.

It is as if you don't want us to have anything good to say, just so you can collectively complain that we don't have anything good to say, and if we happen to have a decent discussion going on one of you jumps in and starts spattering the monkey house glass all over again.

Frankly, it's tedious, and beginning to convince me the purveyors of the tactic are the same.
You aren't exactly winning hearts and minds, there.
When the Democrats take over, and they will if y'all persist, you'll all whine and point the finger at Conservatives, not even realizing you have become just like the Leftists you claim to despise.
What grieves me most is not the nonsense you are all playing at, but that this will destroy the Republic my people, my family, have been involved in for over 100 years before its inception. For that, May Almighty God reward you as you so richly deserve.

(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/glee/images/3/38/Orson-welles-clapping.gif/revision/latest?cb=20110705203442)
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Cripplecreek on May 19, 2017, 11:04:03 am
Myst objected to the "rectum" reference. Need I remind you who made that?

In answer to your question, apparently not. Four months in and the tired canards persist about supporting a Democrat footnote (until she is convicted, which may never happen), and even the allegation that people are anti-trump. I wasn't a fanboi, but his "supporters" are more than enough to turn away the most devout, not to mention folks who were just at the point of giving him a clean slate from the day he was sworn in.
Nope, that is just not good enough, you want total fealty.
That deal just isn't going to happen.

But with true GOP form, you ARE succeeding at alienating a significant portion of the people who might support the President when you need them the most, just like was done with the whole "we don't want you, we don't need you Conservatives" hateful garbage started at the Convention and continued to this day.
 
That we would not even want to be associated, politically, morally, socially, with such a hateful group just follows with the garbage dumped on us daily, as does some degree of schadenfreude that he who lied his way to the nomination is now getting a similar treatment from the MSM.

Now, we understand that the fate of the country is in his not so ample hands, but perhaps it would be best to reconsider the apparent policy of alienating potential support at every turn. Any time we are even tempted to speak well of something he has done, and there are a few things, even if they have been negated by other members of the administration, we find ourselves once again locked in combat to defend our positions in re our principles.

It is as if you don't want us to have anything good to say, just so you can collectively complain that we don't have anything good to say, and if we happen to have a decent discussion going on one of you jumps in and starts spattering the monkey house glass all over again.

Frankly, it's tedious, and beginning to convince me the purveyors of the tactic are the same.
You aren't exactly winning hearts and minds, there.
When the Democrats take over, and they will if y'all persist, you'll all whine and point the finger at Conservatives, not even realizing you have become just like the Leftists you claim to despise.
What grieves me most is not the nonsense you are all playing at, but that this will destroy the Republic my people, my family, have been involved in for over 100 years before its inception. For that, May Almighty God reward you as you so richly deserve.

:patriot:
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: jpsb on May 19, 2017, 11:04:06 am
Way too many people simply do not understand that or refuse to listen.

They are way too caught up in their own rhetoric and dislike of Trump to see the big picture.

The big picture is not Trump...you may not like him but he is not the enemy.

The enemy is the left, enraged at losing an election they KNEW they would win, they are throwing all their resources into damaging or destroying a duly elected President.  Whether you voted for him or not... whether you like him or not ... he was elected and he has done nothing to warrant the attacks or the impeachment cries from the left.

I have literally begged all these whiners to tell me what they want.  They cannot or they will not.

I can only assume they want to vent whatever the consequences.

They are the "we told you so" people that will do everything they can to make Trump a failed president even if that means giving the globalist Marxist Democrats the House and Senate in 2018 and the presidency in 2020. They are not conservatives nor are they patriots. They are despicable people.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: txradioguy on May 19, 2017, 11:08:00 am
They are the "we told you so" people that will do everything they can to make Trump a failed president even if that means giving the globalist Marxist Democrats the House and Senate in 2018 and the presidency in 2020. They are not conservatives nor are they patriots. They are despicable people.

You should really read the post from @Smokin Joe on reply to what Emjay said.  If it applies to anyone here it's you.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Lando Lincoln on May 19, 2017, 11:08:26 am
They are the "we told you so" people that will do everything they can to make Trump a failed president even if that means giving the globalist Marxist Democrats the House and Senate in 2018 and the presidency in 2020. They are not conservatives nor are they patriots. They are despicable people.

And, so it goes...
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: jpsb on May 19, 2017, 11:19:09 am
You should really read the post from @Smokin Joe on reply to what Emjay said.  If it applies to anyone here it's you.

I read it and he is full of it (as usual) his post was so self serving that it was not worth responding to. Claiming team Trump demanded total fidelity is where I stopped reading it until you asked me to waste my time and read all of it.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: geronl on May 19, 2017, 11:29:05 am
They are the "we told you so" people that will do everything they can to make Trump a failed president even if that means giving the globalist Marxist Democrats the House and Senate in 2018 and the presidency in 2020. They are not conservatives nor are they patriots. They are despicable people.


Dear Trump Cult Members,
The "we told you so" people do not have the power or the inclination to make Trump a failed President, only he has that power. When the GOP convention told people like me "There's the door!", we took it seriously - stop blaming us, we were told to leave by Trump and his minions. When your godless fruitcake weaved horrible lies and repeated them (Cruz cheated, Cruz is ineligible, his daddy killed JFK, he;s a Canadian! Look at her Face! Crazy like a child molester! etc etc) until his monkeys believed it, don't blame us for thinking the person making these lies is a liar who shouldn't be trusted.

You were proud that Trump was no conservative, he was a populist! Conservatives were losers! You were proud to be despicable and call yourselves deplorables, remember? Now you want to pretend it was the other way around?

Many wanted to start over with the new administration but the attacks from the Trump Side continued, "Agree with master on all things or you are a traitor and a Democrat!". Do you really think that's how to get people on your side? By attacking them and sliming them and making up new epithets by the hour?

Those bridges were burned, Your side burned them. You didn't want our vote and you still don't want to reach out except to continue attacking us. We'd have to be insane to join you in the cult.

Let the commies and NAZI's fight it out, I'll just buy popcorn, pox on all their houses.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Oceander on May 19, 2017, 11:32:21 am

Dear Trump Cult Members,
The "we told you so" people do not have the power or the inclination to make Trump a failed President, only he has that power. When the GOP convention told people like me "There's the door!", we took it seriously - stop blaming us, we were told to leave by Trump and his minions. When your godless fruitcake weaved horrible lies and repeated them (Cruz cheated, Cruz is ineligible, his daddy killed JFK, he;s a Canadian! Look at her Face! Crazy like a child molester! etc etc) until his monkeys believed it, don't blame us for thinking the person making these lies is a liar who shouldn't be trusted.

You were proud that Trump was no conservative, he was a populist! Conservatives were losers! You were proud to be despicable and call yourselves deplorables, remember? Now you want to pretend it was the other way around?

Many wanted to start over with the new administration but the attacks from the Trump Side continued, "Agree with master on all things or you are a traitor and a Democrat!". Do you really think that's how to get people on your side? By attacking them and sliming them and making up new epithets by the hour?

Those bridges were burned, Your side burned them. You didn't want our vote and you still don't want to reach out except to continue attacking us. We'd have to be insane to join you in the cult.

Let the commies and NAZI's fight it out, I'll just buy popcorn, pox on all their houses.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Oceander on May 19, 2017, 11:34:08 am
They are the "we told you so" people that will do everything they can to make Trump a failed president even if that means giving the globalist Marxist Democrats the House and Senate in 2018 and the presidency in 2020. They are not conservatives nor are they patriots. They are despicable people.

:bigsilly:

If Trump ends up being a failed president, the only person to blame for that will be him.  So far, he seems hellbent on making a failure of it. 
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: geronl on May 19, 2017, 11:37:25 am
:bigsilly:

If Trump ends up being a failed president, the only person to blame for that will be him.  So far, he seems hellbent on making a failure of it.

Yep. Yet we have hysterical rantings all over the web who think the media are running the government. The media can't stop the government from functioning, they didn't stop any other President. Somehow Trump is the singularly weakest President that has ever held the Oval Office, according to his most fervent supporters!
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: jpsb on May 19, 2017, 11:39:49 am

Dear Trump Cult Members,
The "we told you so" people do not have the power or the inclination to make Trump a failed President, only he has that power. When the GOP convention told people like me "There's the door!", we took it seriously - stop blaming us, we were told to leave by Trump and his minions. When your godless fruitcake weaved horrible lies and repeated them (Cruz cheated, Cruz is ineligible, his daddy killed JFK, he;s a Canadian! Look at her Face! Crazy like a child molester! etc etc) until his monkeys believed it, don't blame us for thinking the person making these lies is a liar who shouldn't be trusted.

You were proud that Trump was no conservative, he was a populist! Conservatives were losers! You were proud to be despicable and call yourselves deplorables, remember? Now you want to pretend it was the other way around?

Many wanted to start over with the new administration but the attacks from the Trump Side continued, "Agree with master on all things or you are a traitor and a Democrat!". Do you really think that's how to get people on your side? By attacking them and sliming them and making up new epithets by the hour?

Those bridges were burned, Your side burned them. You didn't want our vote and you still don't want to reach out except to continue attacking us. We'd have to be insane to join you in the cult.

Let the commies and NAZI's fight it out, I'll just buy popcorn, pox on all their houses.

Bridges were burned by the NeverTrumpers. And bridges are still being burned by NeverTrumpers. So let me ask you. Do you want a war with Russia? Cause without Trump that is what you will get. Do you like open borders and no enforcement of our immigration laws? Cause without Trump that is what you will get. I could go on. We Trumpsters like Trump BECAUSE OF HIS POLICIES!

Cruz is not a natural born citizen under original intent. Sorry that is just the way it is.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Oceander on May 19, 2017, 11:45:19 am
Bridges were burned by the NeverTrumpers. And bridges are still being burned by NeverTrumpers. So let me ask you. Do you want a war with Russia? Cause without Trump that is what you will get. Do you like open borders and no enforcement of our immigration laws? Cause without Trump that is what you will get. I could go on. We Trumpsters like Trump BECAUSE OF HIS POLICIES!

Cruz is not a natural born citizen under original intent. Sorry that is just the way it is.

:bigsilly:


Paranoia strikes deep!

Like your man-god, you're fast becoming a pathetic parody. 
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: geronl on May 19, 2017, 12:06:53 pm
ooooommmmmmmmmmmmm..... meditate on thy Trumpiness.... oooommmmmmmmmmmm......

Taco Bowls

oooooohhmmmmmmmmmmm..... increase thy Trumpiness..... oooommmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

National Enquirer is real news, all else is fake!

ooooohhhmmmmmmmmm..... Trumpiness times two, four, potato more.... ooohhhmmmmmmmm....

--------

Only Trump! holding my hands up to Lord Trump who aren't in heaven, Only Trump can do it! Only Trump can prevent war with Russia! Only Trump can stop open borders, do I have an f'in a-man!

F'N A-MAN!

Here at the Kitty Grabbers Church of Trump, praise be his hair, we know without a doubt that Trump will keep all of his promises, it is written down in the holy ART OF THE DEAL that he deals in hyperbole and misdirection to get his way, so we know when he is thought to lie and flip-flop it is all a mind-trip on the enemies of enemies of enemies of America.

F'N A-MAN!

Sure he's a friend of the Clintons, has had many mistresses, treats women like crap and acts like a child, but we know, those of us in the faith, that he isn't anything like that now. Just because he has been spokesperson to scams and MLM's in the past and turned states evidence against his crime partner once that he is really the only person we can trust! "We" not including his wives, of course, or contractors or, well, whatever...

Thou shall bear false witness against the Ted!
Thou shall covet other kitties
Thou shall only read bullet points
Thou shall tweet at 3AM
Thou shall crap in golden toilets all thou days

On our knees we beseech thee, smelly foul horrible worms of NeverTrump, verily it will be thou fault if the Grabby God falls. Join us, you scum sucking sewer rats, because only we of the faith can defend HIM who can defend the world from the enemies of the enemies of the enemies of America! Otherwise bloggers will tear him down!

Ole ye of little faith, pity pity....

Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Jazzhead on May 19, 2017, 12:21:38 pm
Quote
The latest pseudo-scandal is that Trump doesn’t think Mike Flynn did anything wrong, and told James Comey so back in February. So basically, Trump expressed the same view he had of the whole Flynn nonsense to Comey as he has expressed to every interviewer. Comey did nothing, and said nothing (even when testifying to Congress) for nearly three months, because it was nothing. The Russian snipe hunt continued throughout unabated. That off-hand comment was a pretty poor attempt at obstruction of justice since it didn’t obstruct anything – to the limited extent these Russian witch hunts can be confused with “justice” at all.

Comey knows Trump didn't try to obstruct justice.   I understand why he wrote the memo - that's SOP to recount contemporaneously the content of a private conversation.   But he testified before Congress weeks later that there was no obstruction of his investigation, just the President voicing his opinion.   As Schlicter points out, he did nothing following that conversation other than cover his butt with that memo.   

The memo was leaked by the President's enemies to an hysterical press and all hell broke loose.

 Of course there's a coup going on.   I agree 100% with Schlicter -  our tradition of self-governance is in danger of being upended by elites aghast at a peoples' revolution.   It was a revolution at the ballot box,  and I fought as hard as anyone against it.   But the results were free and fair, and the results must stand.   Trump deserves most of the criticism he's getting, but he is still the product of the marvelous system devised by the Founders for our self-governance.   The nation is worth fighting for - and if a civil war is what is coming,  then I will stand against the usurpers.   
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: geronl on May 19, 2017, 12:23:26 pm
Flynn admitted he was an unregistered foreign agent.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Bigun on May 19, 2017, 02:05:45 pm
Very well - and correctly - stated.  I willingly want to support the President and I have expressed my approval at times (such as Justice Gorsuch).  For some, that is not enough.  It is, as you say, tedious and alienating.  :patriot:

@Lando Lincoln

Is there room in that boat for one more?

I think this guy is right!

https://newswithviews.com/stand-up-for-trump-or-lose-america-forever/
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 19, 2017, 03:15:18 pm
@Lando Lincoln

Is there room in that boat for one more?

I think this guy is right!

https://newswithviews.com/stand-up-for-trump-or-lose-america-forever/
Good article, only that 'guy' is a she: Kelleigh Nelson.

Follow links to the Judicial Watch reports on Muller and others, http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2017/05/russia-special-counsel-mueller-conspired-radical-islamic-groups-fbi-chief/ (http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2017/05/russia-special-counsel-mueller-conspired-radical-islamic-groups-fbi-chief/), for one.

In the two longer reports linked there, many of the links in the references bring back 404s, which I take as evidence that source information has been (and likely still is) being moved (to be inaccessible via those links) or scrubbed by entrenched Obamites and others who might benefit by covering their tracks. As with the MSM, controlling information is key to controlling public perception of what is happening in DC and elsewhere.

There is, and has been, a concerted effort on the part of members of the DNC, the MSM, and others to seriously undermine our government, and this has been conducted in apparent collusion with enemies of the United States, at a minimum, actions have been taken by those inside and outside the government to facilitate operations which could be labeled as subversive, including and down to controlling the language used to describe attempted and actual terrorist actions to reduce the perception of threats.
 
The threat we face is one of not only Marxists entrenched in and aspiring to the halls of power in DC, but those in the very agencies we trust to be watchdogs for the Republic. Trump needs to clean house, thoroughly, and do so with no compunctions. Otherwise, the extent of the organizations internal to and involved in the subversion of the United States' Government will continue, and quite possibly succeed.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: driftdiver on May 19, 2017, 03:19:50 pm
Good article, only that 'guy' is a she: Kelleigh Nelson.

Follow links to the Judicial Watch reports on Muller and others, http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2017/05/russia-special-counsel-mueller-conspired-radical-islamic-groups-fbi-chief/ (http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2017/05/russia-special-counsel-mueller-conspired-radical-islamic-groups-fbi-chief/), for one.

In the two longer reports linked there, many of the links in the references bring back 404s, which I take as evidence that source information has been (and likely still is) being moved (to be inaccessible via those links) or scrubbed by entrenched Obamites and others who might benefit by covering their tracks. As with the MSM, controlling information is key to controlling public perception of what is happening in DC and elsewhere.

There is, and has been, a concerted effort on the part of members of the DNC, the MSM, and others to seriously undermine our government, and this has been conducted in apparent collusion with enemies of the United States, at a minimum, actions have been taken by those inside and outside the government to facilitate operations which could be labeled as subversive, including and down to controlling the language used to describe attempted and actual terrorist actions to reduce the perception of threats.
 
The threat we face is one of not only Marxists entrenched in and aspiring to the halls of power in DC, but those in the very agencies we trust to be watchdogs for the Republic. Trump needs to clean house, thoroughly, and do so with no compunctions. Otherwise, the extent of the organizations internal to and involved in the subversion of the United States' Government will continue, and quite possibly succeed.

The swamp does not want to be drained and will do almost anything to keep their cash cow on life support.   Most of them don't care about anything except themselves.  Duty, honor, & country are quaint concepts in a history book for most of them.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Bigun on May 19, 2017, 03:23:12 pm
Good article, only that 'guy' is a she: Kelleigh Nelson.

Follow links to the Judicial Watch reports on Muller and others, http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2017/05/russia-special-counsel-mueller-conspired-radical-islamic-groups-fbi-chief/ (http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2017/05/russia-special-counsel-mueller-conspired-radical-islamic-groups-fbi-chief/), for one.

In the two longer reports linked there, many of the links in the references bring back 404s, which I take as evidence that source information has been (and likely still is) being moved (to be inaccessible via those links) or scrubbed by entrenched Obamites and others who might benefit by covering their tracks. As with the MSM, controlling information is key to controlling public perception of what is happening in DC and elsewhere.

There is, and has been, a concerted effort on the part of members of the DNC, the MSM, and others to seriously undermine our government, and this has been conducted in apparent collusion with enemies of the United States, at a minimum, actions have been taken by those inside and outside the government to facilitate operations which could be labeled as subversive, including and down to controlling the language used to describe attempted and actual terrorist actions to reduce the perception of threats.
 
The threat we face is one of not only Marxists entrenched in and aspiring to the halls of power in DC, but those in the very agencies we trust to be watchdogs for the Republic. Trump needs to clean house, thoroughly, and do so with no compunctions. Otherwise, the extent of the organizations internal to and involved in the subversion of the United States' Government will continue, and quite possibly succeed.

@Smokin Joe

Thanks for the correction!

We are in COMPLETE agreement!  Do what is necessary sooner rather than later and let the damned chips fall wherever they fall!
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Bigun on May 19, 2017, 03:24:48 pm
The swamp does not want to be drained and will do almost anything to keep their cash cow on life support.   Most of them don't care about anything except themselves.  Duty, honor, & country are quaint concepts in a history book for most of them.
@driftdiver

With respect, I sincerely doubt you know just how true that is!
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 19, 2017, 03:30:26 pm

Dear Trump Cult Members,
The "we told you so" people do not have the power or the inclination to make Trump a failed President, only he has that power. When the GOP convention told people like me "There's the door!", we took it seriously - stop blaming us, we were told to leave by Trump and his minions. When your godless fruitcake weaved horrible lies and repeated them (Cruz cheated, Cruz is ineligible, his daddy killed JFK, he;s a Canadian! Look at her Face! Crazy like a child molester! etc etc) until his monkeys believed it, don't blame us for thinking the person making these lies is a liar who shouldn't be trusted.

You were proud that Trump was no conservative, he was a populist! Conservatives were losers! You were proud to be despicable and call yourselves deplorables, remember? Now you want to pretend it was the other way around?

Many wanted to start over with the new administration but the attacks from the Trump Side continued, "Agree with master on all things or you are a traitor and a Democrat!". Do you really think that's how to get people on your side? By attacking them and sliming them and making up new epithets by the hour?

Those bridges were burned, Your side burned them. You didn't want our vote and you still don't want to reach out except to continue attacking us. We'd have to be insane to join you in the cult.

Let the commies and NAZI's fight it out, I'll just buy popcorn, pox on all their houses.
:hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands:

Here!  Here!

Post of the morning!

Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 19, 2017, 03:34:52 pm
Bridges were burned by the NeverTrumpers. And bridges are still being burned by NeverTrumpers. So let me ask you. Do you want a war with Russia?


Obviously you want a war with Principled Conservatives on this board.

Have at.  Take your best shots.  You just continue to demonstrate you people are absolutely no different than the Leftists you say you oppose.

As has been pointed out - you have made enemies of whom would have been natural allies.

So, pound sand and duke it out with the Left on your lonesome.

We're just going to watch and laugh at you all.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Cripplecreek on May 19, 2017, 03:36:46 pm



Let the commies and NAZI's fight it out, I'll just buy popcorn, pox on all their houses.

Don't blame me, I voted for Hindenburg.  :shrug:
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: driftdiver on May 19, 2017, 03:41:31 pm
@driftdiver

With respect, I sincerely doubt you know just how true that is!

@Bigun

I spent 10 years in the Air Force and eventually ended up owning my own company.   We did govt contracting for about 10 years and still do a little.  Its atrocious what goes on with the Govts blessing.   The nepotism & favors between govt agencies and large contractors.  The blatant disregard by the big contracting companies.   I was told by the Dir of Small Business for the Air Force that being a service disabled Veteran company is actually considered a bad thing.   That govt buyers prefer not to use our companies.    They'll hand million dollar contracts to minority owned companies with no past performance but refuse to even consider a vet.

My COO previously worked for the DoD running around Iraq & Afghanistan.   His job was to visit the local business/companies and figure out what they needed.   Then the American Taxpayer bought it ( a crane, generator, manufacturing equipment, etc) and then he gave it to them.   The stories he has of govt officials ignoring security requirements and wasting our taxes will curl your toes.

They just don't care as long as they get theirs. 

So yes its probably worse then I know but what I know is vomit inducing.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Bigun on May 19, 2017, 03:44:12 pm
@Bigun

I spent 10 years in the Air Force and eventually ended up owning my own company.   We did govt contracting for about 10 years and still do a little.  Its atrocious what goes on with the Govts blessing.   The nepotism & favors between govt agencies and large contractors.  The blatant disregard by the big contracting companies.   I was told by the Dir of Small Business for the Air Force that being a service disabled Veteran company is actually considered a bad thing.   That govt buyers prefer not to use our companies.    They'll hand million dollar contracts to minority owned companies with no past performance but refuse to even consider a vet.

My COO previously worked for the DoD running around Iraq & Afghanistan.   His job was to visit the local business/companies and figure out what they needed.   Then the American Taxpayer bought it ( a crane, generator, manufacturing equipment, etc) and then he gave it to them.   The stories he has of govt officials ignoring security requirements and wasting our taxes will curl your toes.

They just don't care as long as they get theirs. 

So yes its probably worse then I know but what I know is vomit inducing.

It's a mess that must be cleaned up or we are well and truly SCREWED!  :beer:

If Trump manages to do nothing else but get a good start on that he will have my enthusiastic vote in 2020!
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Night Hides Not on May 19, 2017, 03:46:46 pm
@Bigun

I spent 10 years in the Air Force and eventually ended up owning my own company.   We did govt contracting for about 10 years and still do a little.  Its atrocious what goes on with the Govts blessing.   The nepotism & favors between govt agencies and large contractors.  The blatant disregard by the big contracting companies.   I was told by the Dir of Small Business for the Air Force that being a service disabled Veteran company is actually considered a bad thing.   That govt buyers prefer not to use our companies.    They'll hand million dollar contracts to minority owned companies with no past performance but refuse to even consider a vet.

My COO previously worked for the DoD running around Iraq & Afghanistan.   His job was to visit the local business/companies and figure out what they needed.   Then the American Taxpayer bought it ( a crane, generator, manufacturing equipment, etc) and then he gave it to them.   The stories he has of govt officials ignoring security requirements and wasting our taxes will curl your toes.

They just don't care as long as they get theirs. 

So yes its probably worse then I know but what I know is vomit inducing.

Those who work for audit agencies within the federal government know exactly what you're talking about. The taxpayer is not protected in the least.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: driftdiver on May 19, 2017, 03:46:57 pm
It's a mess that must be cleaned up or we are well and truly SCREWED!  :beer:

You can't "clean it up", it has to be eliminated.   Big govt is the problem.  The complexity is just not manageable to prevent this kind of corruption.

We must shrink our govt.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Bigun on May 19, 2017, 03:49:10 pm
You can't "clean it up", it has to be eliminated.   Big govt is the problem.  The complexity is just not manageable to prevent this kind of corruption.

We must shrink our govt.
:amen:  :beer:
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 19, 2017, 03:52:23 pm
@driftdiver

With respect, I sincerely doubt you know just how true that is!
It isn't just the figureheads, it is the staffers, the bureaucrats, the thousands of fairly high GS numbers running around making six figures a year who do the actual heavy lifting who will resist with every fiber of their being anything that might cost them their jobs.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Bigun on May 19, 2017, 03:57:12 pm
It isn't just the figureheads, it is the staffers, the bureaucrats, the thousands of fairly high GS numbers running around making six figures a year who do the actual heavy lifting who will resist with every fiber of their being anything that might cost them their jobs.

OH yeah!  And they will use every means at their disposal to maintain the status quo!  Of that, you can be assured!
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: XenaLee on May 19, 2017, 03:58:18 pm
Good article, only that 'guy' is a she: Kelleigh Nelson.

Follow links to the Judicial Watch reports on Muller and others, http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2017/05/russia-special-counsel-mueller-conspired-radical-islamic-groups-fbi-chief/ (http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2017/05/russia-special-counsel-mueller-conspired-radical-islamic-groups-fbi-chief/), for one.

In the two longer reports linked there, many of the links in the references bring back 404s, which I take as evidence that source information has been (and likely still is) being moved (to be inaccessible via those links) or scrubbed by entrenched Obamites and others who might benefit by covering their tracks. As with the MSM, controlling information is key to controlling public perception of what is happening in DC and elsewhere.

There is, and has been, a concerted effort on the part of members of the DNC, the MSM, and others to seriously undermine our government, and this has been conducted in apparent collusion with enemies of the United States, at a minimum, actions have been taken by those inside and outside the government to facilitate operations which could be labeled as subversive, including and down to controlling the language used to describe attempted and actual terrorist actions to reduce the perception of threats.
 
The threat we face is one of not only Marxists entrenched in and aspiring to the halls of power in DC, but those in the very agencies we trust to be watchdogs for the Republic. Trump needs to clean house, thoroughly, and do so with no compunctions. Otherwise, the extent of the organizations internal to and involved in the subversion of the United States' Government will continue, and quite possibly succeed.

Indeed.   The threat this nation faces is a real and present danger.  And it's past time for us to face up to the reality and combat it.... in any manner or way that we can.

Excellent, SJ!
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Night Hides Not on May 19, 2017, 04:26:22 pm

Dear Trump Cult Members,
The "we told you so" people do not have the power or the inclination to make Trump a failed President, only he has that power. When the GOP convention told people like me "There's the door!", we took it seriously - stop blaming us, we were told to leave by Trump and his minions. When your godless fruitcake weaved horrible lies and repeated them (Cruz cheated, Cruz is ineligible, his daddy killed JFK, he;s a Canadian! Look at her Face! Crazy like a child molester! etc etc) until his monkeys believed it, don't blame us for thinking the person making these lies is a liar who shouldn't be trusted.

You were proud that Trump was no conservative, he was a populist! Conservatives were losers! You were proud to be despicable and call yourselves deplorables, remember? Now you want to pretend it was the other way around?

Many wanted to start over with the new administration but the attacks from the Trump Side continued, "Agree with master on all things or you are a traitor and a Democrat!". Do you really think that's how to get people on your side? By attacking them and sliming them and making up new epithets by the hour?

Those bridges were burned, Your side burned them. You didn't want our vote and you still don't want to reach out except to continue attacking us. We'd have to be insane to join you in the cult.

Let the commies and NAZI's fight it out, I'll just buy popcorn, pox on all their houses.

A great example of "Going Galt."

I also like Henry Rearden's talk to his family in the chapter entitled, "The Concerto of Deliverance."

Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: truth_seeker on May 19, 2017, 04:41:36 pm
It isn't just the figureheads, it is the staffers, the bureaucrats, the thousands of fairly high GS numbers running around making six figures a year who do the actual heavy lifting who will resist with every fiber of their being anything that might cost them their jobs.

And Trump is the first time since Reagan that they feared for their jobs.

Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 19, 2017, 04:43:46 pm
And Trump is the first time since Reagan that they feared for their jobs.
And that is a good thing (not that they haven't had to fear for them in the meantime, but that they do now). Now he just has to fire the right ones.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: ABX on May 19, 2017, 10:14:48 pm
Bridges were burned by the NeverTrumpers. And bridges are still being burned by NeverTrumpers. S


Really? I recall a certain poster saying that anyone who opposed Trump was an enemy worse than the Soviets who must be destroyed..

Quote
So let me ask you. Do you want a war with Russia? Cause without Trump that is what you will get. Do you like open borders and no enforcement of our immigration laws? Cause without Trump that is what you will get. I could go on. We Trumpsters like Trump BECAUSE OF HIS POLICIES!

I'm going to have to throw a few flags on that one...

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/0e/b5/2d/0eb52d4640b11ff4f36d0bcfc52dddee.jpg)  (https://i.imgflip.com/1cybce.jpg)  (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/60/77/aa/6077aa668ccc21bd0221103226fd7ba3.jpg)  (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/73/cb/0c/73cb0cd0936454b36005fe876568da69.jpg) 

Quote
Cruz is not a natural born citizen under original intent. Sorry that is just the way it is.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/73/cb/0c/73cb0cd0936454b36005fe876568da69.jpg)
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 20, 2017, 05:03:46 am
This isn't a coup, it is a reality TV show with characters and made up drama. The conspiracies, outrage, drama, romance, villians, and heroes are all molded to fit with a narriative.  This isn't 'against' the people, it is targeting what the people want, drama, to keep their eyes glued to the media providers who are running the show.  Like with most reality shows, none of the characters are who you want them to be, they are playing a role.

When we 'fight back' we have to start with ourselves and what we demand of our information, media, and even government. We want it to entertain us and solve our problems. We created this monster.

Truth!

The people elected a reality show.  And Trump is in it to make more money for the family businesses.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: truth_seeker on May 20, 2017, 05:08:56 am
Really? I recall a certain poster saying that anyone who opposed Trump was an enemy worse than the Soviets who must be destroyed..

Really? I don't remember anything like that and I have been here all along since 2009.

Can you give the cite?
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 20, 2017, 05:13:53 am

Dear Trump Cult Members,
The "we told you so" people do not have the power or the inclination to make Trump a failed President, only he has that power. When the GOP convention told people like me "There's the door!", we took it seriously - stop blaming us, we were told to leave by Trump and his minions. When your godless fruitcake weaved horrible lies and repeated them (Cruz cheated, Cruz is ineligible, his daddy killed JFK, he;s a Canadian! Look at her Face! Crazy like a child molester! etc etc) until his monkeys believed it, don't blame us for thinking the person making these lies is a liar who shouldn't be trusted.

You were proud that Trump was no conservative, he was a populist! Conservatives were losers! You were proud to be despicable and call yourselves deplorables, remember? Now you want to pretend it was the other way around?

Many wanted to start over with the new administration but the attacks from the Trump Side continued, "Agree with master on all things or you are a traitor and a Democrat!". Do you really think that's how to get people on your side? By attacking them and sliming them and making up new epithets by the hour?

Those bridges were burned, Your side burned them. You didn't want our vote and you still don't want to reach out except to continue attacking us. We'd have to be insane to join you in the cult.

Let the commies and NAZI's fight it out, I'll just buy popcorn, pox on all their houses.

Best post! 
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: geronl on May 20, 2017, 08:14:39 am
Best post!

thanks
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: jmyrlefuller on May 20, 2017, 12:46:07 pm
Bridges were burned by the NeverTrumpers. And bridges are still being burned by NeverTrumpers. So let me ask you. Do you want a war with Russia? Cause without Trump that is what you will get. Do you like open borders and no enforcement of our immigration laws? Cause without Trump that is what you will get. I could go on. We Trumpsters like Trump BECAUSE OF HIS POLICIES!
You sound like Neville Chamberlain. "We have to appease the Nazis because we can't afford another world war!"

Cruz is not a natural born citizen under original intent. Sorry that is just the way it is.
Original intent? I addressed this years ago. Natural-born citizenship under original intent was meaningless. The Marquis de Lafayette, born in France, had the title of Natural Born Citizen handed to him by the state of Virginia three years before the U.S. Constitution was ratified. Under the contemporary definition (a meaningless phrase that can be bestowed on anyone) no one is barred from being a natural born citizen.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Cripplecreek on May 20, 2017, 01:25:39 pm
You sound like Neville Chamberlain. "We have to appease the Nazis because we can't afford another world war!"

Its amazing to me how desperately they scream that we better appease Putin or there will be a war. The simple fact is that Putin has already reignited the cold war and Trump and friends immediately surrendered.

Quote
Original intent? I addressed this years ago. Natural-born citizenship under original intent was meaningless. The Marquis de Lafayette, born in France, had the title of Natural Born Citizen handed to him by the state of Virginia three years before the U.S. Constitution was ratified. Under the contemporary definition (a meaningless phrase that can be bestowed on anyone) no one is barred from being a natural born citizen.

Interesting guy. Teenage French nobility and a hero of the American revolution. You should also read about John Armistead Lafayette. JAL was a slave/spy for The Marquis inside the camp of Benedict Arnold.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: austingirl on May 20, 2017, 04:30:14 pm
You are correct.

Anyone who has watched the "news" lately on the major networks or read the screaming headlines issuing forth daily from the NYT-WaPo Axis knows or ought to know that something both coordinated and unprecedented is happening.

And it ought to scare the hell out of you, because our culture is increasingly made of brittle and dry tinder, just waiting for a match.

I am no big fan of Donald Trump, as anyone here knows. The right reasons, the right time... but the wrong guy. His character and experience, or rather the lack of both have made him the perfect target for a Perfect Storm of Progressive bureaucrats, media mongers, institutionally-funded social justice warriors and congressional staffers, who are all working together to reverse the result of the 2016 election and stop the Republican agenda cold in its tracks.

And that, I am certain, is just for starters.   


Well said. I don't think Trump realized just how hard the swamp would resist being drained. There is a massive entrenched cabal in DC that will fight to continue their corruption of the Constitution.

Just now saw Rex Tillerson asked a question in his Riyadh presser about who the "person of interest" is in the WH probe. He said he had no information. Disgusting to watch the media do this sort of thing overseas.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 20, 2017, 04:40:28 pm

Well said. I don't think Trump realized just how hard the swamp would resist being drained. There is a massive entrenched cabal in DC that will fight to continue their corruption of the Constitution.

Just now saw Rex Tillerson asked a question in his Riyadh presser about who the "person of interest" is in the WH probe. He said he had no information. Disgusting to watch the media do this sort of thing overseas.

Very true.  I did not realize it myself. 

Trump had huge problems to overcome ... made more difficult by his lack of political experience and his enemies on both sides of the aisle.

I think he has fought the good fight for the most part.  And I underestimated the desperation and venom of the evil forces and the press.

I hope he can ride it out and achieve some of his goals.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: kevindavis007 on May 20, 2017, 04:44:28 pm

Well said. I don't think Trump realized just how hard the swamp would resist being drained. There is a massive entrenched cabal in DC that will fight to continue their corruption of the Constitution.

Just now saw Rex Tillerson asked a question in his Riyadh presser about who the "person of interest" is in the WH probe. He said he had no information. Disgusting to watch the media do this sort of thing overseas.


Yes, the horrors of the Press asking 'questions'.. Oh the humanity...
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: austingirl on May 20, 2017, 04:44:51 pm
Very true.  I did not realize it myself. 

Trump had huge problems to overcome ... made more difficult by his lack of political experience and his enemies on both sides of the aisle.

I think he has fought the good fight for the most part.  And I underestimated the desperation and venom of the evil forces and the press.

I hope he can ride it out and achieve some of his goals.

I hope so, too. It is sickening to think that an outsider cannot succeed in government and that only a politician can.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on May 20, 2017, 04:49:30 pm
Demanding a government champion (on either side) in this battle is like rooting for the wrassler you like on the WWE to beat the other guy for you... the point is completely missed that they are all characters.
And that's the bottom line cause Stone Cold says so. 888high58888
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: austingirl on May 20, 2017, 05:14:51 pm

Yes, the horrors of the Press asking 'questions'.. Oh the humanity...

Interesting that you don't think the venue overseas and the fact that the Secretary of State is not the person to ask about the WH probe is out of line. :shrug:
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: kevindavis007 on May 20, 2017, 05:21:10 pm
Interesting that you don't think the venue overseas and the fact that the Secretary of State is not the person to ask about the WH probe is out of line. :shrug:


Nope... That is what you get with a FREE PRESS...
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: austingirl on May 20, 2017, 05:25:30 pm

Nope... That is what you get with a FREE PRESS...

Free press or an arm of the Progressives in a coordinated non-stop attack? What is the point of asking the SOS that question on foreign soil? Pure grandstanding.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: kevindavis007 on May 20, 2017, 05:32:31 pm
Free press or an arm of the Progressives in a coordinated non-stop attack? What is the point of asking the SOS that question on foreign soil? Pure grandstanding.


Tough sh*t!!!!
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on May 20, 2017, 05:34:44 pm

Well said. I don't think Trump realized just how hard the swamp would resist being drained. There is a massive entrenched cabal in DC that will fight to continue their corruption of the Constitution.

Trump figured out that the Presidency is hard after winning.  Better late than never I suppose.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: austingirl on May 20, 2017, 05:34:54 pm

Tough sh*t!!!!

Rude and uncalled for. **nononono*
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2017, 05:41:46 pm
Trump figured out that the Presidency is hard after winning.  Better late than never I suppose.
You forget that even before he had the nomination clinched, he asserted he "could make deals" with the GOPe. Well, that may be proving more difficult than he thought. Hubris is a mean mother...
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 20, 2017, 05:46:50 pm
Free press or an arm of the Progressives in a coordinated non-stop attack? What is the point of asking the SOS that question on foreign soil? Pure grandstanding.

Trump threw gasoline on his war with the press and exacerbated the atmosphere he now finds himself afire in.

I do not have any sympathy.

The modern press have always been disgusting vultures with no sense of diplomacy or decorum.  It just got worse when the Democrat Party knighted them as kingmakers.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on May 20, 2017, 05:49:10 pm

Dear Trump Cult Members,
It really is a great post.  Yuge and bigly.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 20, 2017, 05:59:04 pm
:hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands:

Here!  Here!

Post of the morning!

You, @geronl @bolobaby  et al.

Wow.  Still sulling and so proud as you retire from the fray because of past hurts and hates.

What about the country? 

I was a Trump hater also, but I gave it up when there was no longer any profit or value in it and when I saw the left was using you to try to get rid of a duly elected president.

Whether his voters wore rose-colored glasses or whatever, they wanted our country back from the Obama/Clinton era.  And I agree with that.

You all can buy popcorn and sit back and diss the rest of us but you won't be laughing when the country turns socialist.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on May 20, 2017, 06:10:55 pm
You, @geronl @bolobaby  et al.

Wow.  Still sulling and so proud as you retire from the fray because of past hurts and hates.

What about the country? 

I was a Trump hater also, but I gave it up when there was no longer any profit or value in it and when I saw the left was using you to try to get rid of a duly elected president.

Whether his voters wore rose-colored glasses or whatever, they wanted our country back from the Obama/Clinton era.  And I agree with that.

You all can buy popcorn and sit back and diss the rest of us but you won't be laughing when the country turns socialist.

Why don't you stop excoriating the forum for daring to have a different opinion than you.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 20, 2017, 06:21:37 pm
You, @geronl @bolobaby  et al.

Wow.  Still sulling and so proud as you retire from the fray because of past hurts and hates.

What about the country? 


We're fighting on the battlefield you people have abandoned and want noting to do with.  We advocate for the ground that liberty's entire existence as a thought depends upon.

You're stuck on fighting for a man.

I was a Trump hater also, but I gave it up when there was no longer any profit or value in it and when I saw the left was using you to try to get rid of a duly elected president.

The Trump militant has done the Left's job in driving Principled Christian Conservatives from your ranks.  Each time we get berated and threatened for not supporting Trump enough, or daring to say anything critical of Trump, you drive us further away to be regarded as enemies.

So be it.  As GeronL said - we will watch you and the Left duke it out over politics and politicians while munching on popcorn.

You all can buy popcorn and sit back and diss the rest of us but you won't be laughing when the country turns socialist.

We're already there, and I got new for you sweetie, the MAJORITY of the population in this country WANT Socialism, and the very party you support wants Socialism - as long as they get to manage it.

And Socialism does not leave the bloodstream via politics.

That battle takes place on the ground you have abandoned and have no use for.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2017, 06:48:21 pm
You, @geronl @bolobaby  et al.

Wow.  Still sulling and so proud as you retire from the fray because of past hurts and hates.

What about the country? 

I was a Trump hater also, but I gave it up when there was no longer any profit or value in it and when I saw the left was using you to try to get rid of a duly elected president.

Whether his voters wore rose-colored glasses or whatever, they wanted our country back from the Obama/Clinton era.  And I agree with that.

You all can buy popcorn and sit back and diss the rest of us but you won't be laughing when the country turns socialist.
Yes, what about the Socialists, EmJay? What did you do to fight Socialism today?
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 20, 2017, 06:58:15 pm

We're fighting on the battlefield you people have abandoned and want noting to do with.  W

That battle takes place on the ground you have abandoned and have no use for.

You are not fighting any battle.  You have nowhere to go because you are living in some utopia of your own making.

The rest of us are fighting here in the real world ... not for some esoteric perfection that has never existed but for the best America possible right now.

I don't know what you think you can accomplish by sitting way up there on your high horse deriding those of us in the trenches.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Bigun on May 20, 2017, 07:11:57 pm

Yes, the horrors of the Press asking 'questions'.. Oh the humanity...

I have no problems with the press asking questions. It is their making of the news that I object to!
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: geronl on May 20, 2017, 07:44:43 pm


What about the country? 


The country elected a low-life scum bucket clown as President, I feel very sorry for it.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 20, 2017, 08:06:17 pm
You are not fighting any battle. 

You go think that. 

The fact is, the battles I fight you want nothing to do with and discount as irrelevant. 

As such, enjoy the tyranny you so despise.  Because you are not going to get any relief from it via the manner in which you think you are fighting it.

You have nowhere to go because you are living in some utopia of your own making.

There is no utopia that man has any ability to bring. Tyranny happens when men think they can use politics to achieve it.

The rest of us are fighting here in the real world ...

You are fighting in vain for that you will never achieve.

Because you are ignorant of the fact that the primary battle is not with the flesh, but spiritual wickedness in high places.

I don't know what you think you can accomplish by sitting way up there on your high horse deriding those of us in the trenches.

More than you will ever understand or allow yourself to understand given your replies of late.  But that doesn't matter because people like you demanded we get lost and that you do not want to hear what it is we are saying and recommending.  You only want to hear smooth and easy things and you do not want to hear about the moral issues of God that you people have rejected as inconsequential.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: geronl on May 20, 2017, 08:08:19 pm

There is no utopia that man has any ability to bring. Tyranny happens when men think they can use politics to achieve it.

You are fighting in vain for that you will never achieve.

Because you are ignorant of the fact that the primary battle is not with the flesh, but spiritual wickedness in high places.


 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: geronl on May 20, 2017, 08:10:39 pm

Well said. I don't think Trump realized just how hard the swamp would resist being drained. There is a massive entrenched cabal in DC that will fight to continue their corruption of the Constitution.

He's not draining the swamp, he's bathing in it. Half his top people are Goldman Sachs or lobbyists. Tillerson at Exxon was one of the biggest lobbyists in history, getting favors from the government. (That's the definition of the swamp)
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: EC on May 20, 2017, 08:11:44 pm
I have no problems with the press asking questions. It is their making of the news that I object to!

Word.  888high58888
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: bolobaby on May 20, 2017, 08:26:06 pm
Hey - could anyone who cares to be kind remove mentions of me when responding to Emjay? I have her on ignore, so there's no point dragging me into a conversation that includes her. She's obsessed with me, so - despite me telling her that she's on ignore - she still mentions me. It's embarrassing, really.

Thanks.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: austingirl on May 20, 2017, 09:11:48 pm
He's not draining the swamp, he's bathing in it. Half his top people are Goldman Sachs or lobbyists. Tillerson at Exxon was one of the biggest lobbyists in history, getting favors from the government. (That's the definition of the swamp)

There has been a revolving door between the WH and Goldman Sachs as long as I can remember. I do not condone it. I was hoping that with total Republican "control" Obamacare would be repealed and we would have tax cuts by now. The choice of Gorsuch is one bright spot. There is still the possibility for more conservatives appointed to the SC.

Trump has a tough job with the combination of the media, Dims,  GOPe, and entrenched bureaucrats bent on his destruction. I do not think the destruction of a President is a good thing for the country. He was not my choice for the GOP candidate but I was hoping for disruption of federal power and return to the Tenth Amendment.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: geronl on May 20, 2017, 09:20:48 pm
The choice of Gorsuch is one bright spot. 

That still remains to be seen, actually
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: austingirl on May 20, 2017, 09:24:29 pm
That still remains to be seen, actually
True. Here's hoping. ^-^
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: anubias on May 20, 2017, 09:32:07 pm
The barber pole is back.  Quick!  Somebody wake up the fence post to save us all from the barber pole!
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: American Faith Today on May 20, 2017, 09:50:35 pm
Do guys like the author of this piece even have any awareness at all that they basically have gone all Hillary Clinton defender mode, only they're defending Trump.

I mean, there's no way Donald or anyone connected to him could have done anything wrong. Not at all. It's all a vast left wing or DC establishment cabal conspiracy.

I replied to someone over at The Right Scoop blog, which I frequent, who said this was the Swamp fighting back and we need to remember it's us vs. the government.

I politely asked him if "The Swamp" forced Trump to hire guys like Flynn, Page, Manafort, and Stone.  Near as I could tell, he never bothered to respond.

How about the Dutch documentary that ran earlier this month that showed numerous connections between Trump and the Russian mob, with testimonies saying "IF he knew this, IF he did this", he's in big trouble.  No evidence at this point of a crime by Trump, no. But was that an evil Nancy Pelosi conspiracy?  Or maybe it was Chuck Schumer.  Perhaps Steny Hoyer or Elijah Cummings or Dick Durbin had nothing better to do.

I become more convinced by the day that the majority of our "conservative" media are as principled and concerned about the things that really matter when it comes to freedom as our "Republican" politicians.  They're reactionary crap stirrers who wants everyone to be reactionary with them.  They wrap themselves in the flag and scream about freedom and Constitutional buzzwords, but if the Republicans were doing what they say the liberals are doing they would probably think it really neat.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: anubias on May 20, 2017, 09:56:36 pm
wrap themselves in the flag and scream about freedom and Constitutional buzzwords

 :dx1:
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 20, 2017, 09:59:01 pm
The country elected a low-life scum bucket clown as President, I feel very sorry for it.

I thought you were buying popcorn and enjoying it.

But you miss the point ... your three words 'the country elected' have a great deal of significance.

The country made a choice.  It was a good choice.  people can whine all they want about bringing Hillary into the equation but she was the other half of the equation.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 20, 2017, 10:01:10 pm
Do guys like the author of this piece even have any awareness at all that they basically have gone all Hillary Clinton defender mode, only they're defending Trump.

I mean, there's no way Donald or anyone connected to him could have done anything wrong. Not at all. It's all a vast left wing or DC establishment cabal conspiracy.

I replied to someone over at The Right Scoop blog, which I frequent, who said this was the Swamp fighting back and we need to remember it's us vs. the government.

I politely asked him if "The Swamp" forced Trump to hire guys like Flynn, Page, Manafort, and Stone.  Near as I could tell, he never bothered to respond.

How about the Dutch documentary that ran earlier this month that showed numerous connections between Trump and the Russian mob, with testimonies saying "IF he knew this, IF he did this", he's in big trouble.  No evidence at this point of a crime by Trump, no. But was that an evil Nancy Pelosi conspiracy?  Or maybe it was Chuck Schumer.  Perhaps Steny Hoyer or Elijah Cummings or Dick Durbin had nothing better to do.

I become more convinced by the day that the majority of our "conservative" media are as principled and concerned about the things that really matter when it comes to freedom as our "Republican" politicians.  They're reactionary crap stirrers who wants everyone to be reactionary with them.  They wrap themselves in the flag and scream about freedom and Constitutional buzzwords, but if the Republicans were doing what they say the liberals are doing they would probably think it really neat.

I believe you are indulging in hyperbole of the worst kind.

But have at it if it makes you feel good.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 20, 2017, 10:03:41 pm


More than you will ever understand or allow yourself to understand given your replies of late.  But that doesn't matter because people like you demanded we get lost and that you do not want to hear what it is we are saying and recommending.  You only want to hear smooth and easy things and you do not want to hear about the moral issues of God that you people have rejected as inconsequential.

Don't go invoking moral issues of God.  He might not like it.  You are doing nothing and think you are doing something by posting self-righteous posts.

Exactly what are you actually doing?
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 20, 2017, 10:04:14 pm
Do guys like the author of this piece even have any awareness at all that they basically have gone all Hillary Clinton defender mode, only they're defending Trump.

I mean, there's no way Donald or anyone connected to him could have done anything wrong. Not at all. It's all a vast left wing or DC establishment cabal conspiracy.

I replied to someone over at The Right Scoop blog, which I frequent, who said this was the Swamp fighting back and we need to remember it's us vs. the government.

I politely asked him if "The Swamp" forced Trump to hire guys like Flynn, Page, Manafort, and Stone.  Near as I could tell, he never bothered to respond.

How about the Dutch documentary that ran earlier this month that showed numerous connections between Trump and the Russian mob, with testimonies saying "IF he knew this, IF he did this", he's in big trouble.  No evidence at this point of a crime by Trump, no. But was that an evil Nancy Pelosi conspiracy?  Or maybe it was Chuck Schumer.  Perhaps Steny Hoyer or Elijah Cummings or Dick Durbin had nothing better to do.

I become more convinced by the day that the majority of our "conservative" media are as principled and concerned about the things that really matter when it comes to freedom as our "Republican" politicians.  They're reactionary crap stirrers who wants everyone to be reactionary with them.  They wrap themselves in the flag and scream about freedom and Constitutional buzzwords, but if the Republicans were doing what they say the liberals are doing they would probably think it really neat.

Exactly.  Thank you.  Amen.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: roamer_1 on May 20, 2017, 10:06:58 pm
Do guys like the author of this piece even have any awareness at all that they basically have gone all Hillary Clinton defender mode, only they're defending Trump.

I mean, there's no way Donald or anyone connected to him could have done anything wrong. Not at all. It's all a vast left wing or DC establishment cabal conspiracy.


That's right. I am on the record here stating there isn't enough evidence to meet the burden of proof - But I am under no illusions that Trump is sainted. I know he's dirty.

I think folks are going to have a hard time defending him before it's done.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2017, 10:09:55 pm
That's right. I am on the record here stating there isn't enough evidence to meet the burden of proof - But I am under no illusions that Trump is sainted. I know he's dirty.

I think folks are going to have a hard time defending him before it's done.
Yep. But the accusers have to build their case. Those are the rules we go by.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: geronl on May 20, 2017, 10:10:04 pm
  people can whine all they want about bringing Hillary into the equation but she was the other half of the equation.

was, not is. She is completely irrelevant now.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 20, 2017, 10:12:29 pm
Don't go invoking moral issues of God.  He might not like it. 

I'll take His Word over your empty words every single time, and I will invoke the moral issues of God as vociferously as our Founders did, if not moreso.

You however, are revealing yourself a living epitome of Isaiah 30:10.

You are doing nothing and think you are doing something by posting self-righteous posts.

Just like a liberal Leftist.  Just like those who defend homosexual marriage, abortion and every other sick and perverted issue out there.  Comes someone daring to utter what scripture states, what morality the biblical religions used to profess, and what God's Word plainly says why... THAT'S SELF RIGHTEOUS!  And you cannot stand any of that being uttered within your sight.

Apparently your religion is politics and a man whom you place all your hope and faith in.

You have your reward.

Truly.

Exactly what are you actually doing?

Pointing to the Truth as a witness. 

Because in that Day, you will have no excuse to get angry and exclaim you had no warning.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: American Faith Today on May 20, 2017, 10:24:45 pm
I thought you were buying popcorn and enjoying it.

But you miss the point ... your three words 'the country elected' have a great deal of significance.

The country made a choice.  It was a good choice.  people can whine all they want about bringing Hillary into the equation but she was the other half of the equation.

Actually, the "choice" most of the voting public made was none of the above.


And it's true, there are many elections even in presidential years where the turnout is not that inspiring, or as inspiring as the get out the vote crowd would like. 

All that said, the number of votes cast and counted for president was the lowest in about 20 years, if memory serves.

I understand the people who voted to keep Hillary out.  I wasn't one of them, and no I didn't vote for her because Donald was that bad.

That said, all of the claims about what she would do to the country were all conjecture and guessing.  Maybe educated guessing and experienced guessing, but still guessing.

The "she'll stack the Supreme Court with leftists"? 

Maybe yes, maybe no.  Maybe a Republican Senate keeps her from appointing complete nut jobs.  I understand a lot of people would say good luck with that.  They held the line, for whatever the reason, on Garland.  Although last I checked McConnell thought he'd make a swell FBI Director.  Then again, Trump thinks Joe Lieberman would make an excellent FBI Director.  Maybe it was Lieberman's high praise of Hillary's service as SoS that Trump agreed with before running for president.

So, in that vein we got Gorsuch.  Maybe he'll be fine, maybe even good.  But seeing as how he said babies in the womb have no Constitutional rights, something again Madame Hillary said, I'm not holding my breath.

Trump said a lot of things to sound Republican and conservative on the campaign trail.  A lot of us to this day remain convinced that was campaign Trump and not real Trump.

As it is, blame the media, blame the left,blame Soros, blame a billy goat.  Oh, the Cubs won it all last year.  Screw that.

Bottom line, if Trump is going to have to continue to wade through scandals, investigations, accusations, and respond to all of them like a spoiled rich kid, he'll get nothing, or next to nothing accomplished.  And of course that assumes he lasts even one term, let alone two.

I realize for some, probably you amongst them, that's better still than the disaster Hillary was supposed to bring.  Personally, for me, our country needed and needs someone who is going to abide by the Constitution and understands that without God and a reliance on and dedication to Him we're nothing as a people.  And when I see God, I'm talking YHVH, not whatever generic "god" someone wants to throw out. 
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2017, 10:32:41 pm

Personally, for me, our country needed and needs someone who is going to abide by the Constitution and understands that without God and a reliance on and dedication to Him we're nothing as a people.  And when I see God, I'm talking YHVH, not whatever generic "god" someone wants to throw out.
:amen:
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: American Faith Today on May 20, 2017, 10:37:59 pm
I believe you are indulging in hyperbole of the worst kind.

But have at it if it makes you feel good.

When one sees individuals that were dubbed "leading conservatives" like Rush, Hannity, and many others acting like their left wing counterparts and basically operating as state controlled operatives protecting the president at all costs, I certainly don't personally see the hyperbole. 

The point is things that Obama did that he was verbally crucified for on talk radio, blogs, forums etc. that Trump basically does as well, or at least something similar, well that's fine.

There are way, way, WAY too many people in this country who are simply party first.  It's not a surprise, it's not like it's new information.

I recall not that long ago that when it was announced that Trump was inviting Muslim Brotherhood ally and sympathizer Erdogan to the White House that a Facebook friend remarked if Obama was doing that people would be livid.  And he would be right.  And many of them would have been right to have been livid.  Naturally, the people supporting Trump were silent.

I was just reading this piece by Andrew McCarthy, Rush's good buddy as well.  Somewhat lengthy, but the point being (and he doesn't think there's collusion) that Trump can't even differentiate between friend and foe and again if Obama had said what Trump reportedly did to the Russian ambassadors, people would have went through the roof.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/447821/trumpcomeynutjobrussia?utm_content=social&utm_medium=@federalists_usa&utm_source=thenewamericana.com&utm_campaign=thefederalistparty.org (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/447821/trumpcomeynutjobrussia?utm_content=social&utm_medium=@federalists_usa&utm_source=thenewamericana.com&utm_campaign=thefederalistparty.org)
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: roamer_1 on May 20, 2017, 10:38:57 pm
Yep. But the accusers have to build their case. Those are the rules we go by.

That's right. No argument there.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: txradioguy on May 20, 2017, 10:47:13 pm
Do guys like the author of this piece even have any awareness at all that they basically have gone all Hillary Clinton defender mode, only they're defending Trump.

I mean, there's no way Donald or anyone connected to him could have done anything wrong. Not at all. It's all a vast left wing or DC establishment cabal conspiracy.

I replied to someone over at The Right Scoop blog, which I frequent, who said this was the Swamp fighting back and we need to remember it's us vs. the government.

I politely asked him if "The Swamp" forced Trump to hire guys like Flynn, Page, Manafort, and Stone.  Near as I could tell, he never bothered to respond.

How about the Dutch documentary that ran earlier this month that showed numerous connections between Trump and the Russian mob, with testimonies saying "IF he knew this, IF he did this", he's in big trouble.  No evidence at this point of a crime by Trump, no. But was that an evil Nancy Pelosi conspiracy?  Or maybe it was Chuck Schumer.  Perhaps Steny Hoyer or Elijah Cummings or Dick Durbin had nothing better to do.

I become more convinced by the day that the majority of our "conservative" media are as principled and concerned about the things that really matter when it comes to freedom as our "Republican" politicians.  They're reactionary crap stirrers who wants everyone to be reactionary with them.  They wrap themselves in the flag and scream about freedom and Constitutional buzzwords, but if the Republicans were doing what they say the liberals are doing they would probably think it really neat.

They do tend to use the same analogies and of you're not this you're that type of attacks the Libs have for decades.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 20, 2017, 11:10:25 pm
When one sees individuals that were dubbed "leading conservatives" like Rush, Hannity, and many others acting like their left wing counterparts and basically operating as state controlled operatives protecting the president at all costs, I certainly don't personally see the hyperbole.

I recall not that long ago that when it was announced that Trump was inviting Muslim Brotherhood ally and sympathizer Erdogan to the White House that a Facebook friend remarked if Obama was doing that people would be livid.  And he would be right.  And many of them would have been right to have been livid.  Naturally, the people supporting Trump were silent.

Absolutely true.  Daring to point that out simply means you are to be decreed an enemy, siding with Hillary and "the coup" and treated as a threat to the Republic by those who have decided to adopt the very same tactics that Obama's acolytes have.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2017, 11:17:36 pm
Absolutely true.  Daring to point that out simply means you are to be decreed an enemy, siding with Hillary and "the coup" and treated as a threat to the Republic by those who have decided to adopt the very same tactics that Obama's acolytes have.
'But....But... It's okay when WE do it.'
 (Sounds familiar, doesn't it?)
Exactly why principles are so important.

Rush lost me years ago when he'd run right up to the brink of the issues with Clinton and stop just short of the finish line. It's like waiting through a long joke and waiting for the punch line.
The joke was on us.
Then, when he said over the air the name of his favorite cigar (which happened to be my favorite cigar, too), the wait time tripled, the price doubled, and I couldn't afford them any more. Grrrrr.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: roamer_1 on May 20, 2017, 11:22:46 pm
'But....But... It's okay when WE do it.'
 (Sounds familiar, doesn't it?)
Exactly why principles are so important.

Rush lost me years ago when he'd run right up to the brink of the issues with Clinton and stop just short of the finish line. It's like waiting through a long joke and waiting for the punch line.
The joke was on us.
Then, when he said over the air the name of his favorite cigar (which happened to be my favorite cigar, too), the wait time tripled, the price doubled, and I couldn't afford them any more. Grrrrr.

I had hit 'Shut up and sing' wrt Rush a long time ago. Aligning with Romney was the 'Oh, hell no!'
Haven't heard a peep of him since.
Fair weather.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 20, 2017, 11:37:16 pm
I'll take His Word over your empty words every single time, and I will invoke the moral issues of God as vociferously as our Founders did, if not moreso.

You however, are revealing yourself a living epitome of Isaiah 30:10.

Just like a liberal Leftist.  Just like those who defend homosexual marriage, abortion and every other sick and perverted issue out there.  Comes someone daring to utter what scripture states, what morality the biblical religions used to profess, and what God's Word plainly says why... THAT'S SELF RIGHTEOUS!  And you cannot stand any of that being uttered within your sight.

Apparently your religion is politics and a man whom you place all your hope and faith in.

You have your reward.

Truly.

Pointing to the Truth as a witness. 

Because in that Day, you will have no excuse to get angry and exclaim you had no warning.

Our modern day Pharisee...knows what god thinks and wants based on his goofy interpretations of a book written and assembled by other Pharisee-like men. And, like the Pharisees, claims to speak for god. Those who disagree are of course ignorant, dangerous and doomed.

You are exactly what Jesus preached against...self righteous, arrogant, not seeking but certain, and full of condemnation. You think Jesus is contained within a book written by men....but YOU are wrong...that book is no more than a clarion call to seek out god, not a road map. God may have cornered the market on "Truth", but you as a man have no claim to it...so stop pretending that you do because you've read a book.

You should listen to Jesus own words before you condemn others...'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2017, 11:45:09 pm
What book did you get those out of? Cite, please?
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 20, 2017, 11:47:19 pm
What book did you get those out of? Cite, please?

From the book of the disciple Thomas.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2017, 11:50:15 pm
From the book of the disciple Thomas.
A little more bibliography, please.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: roamer_1 on May 20, 2017, 11:52:55 pm
A little more bibliography, please.

gnostic gospel... Nag Hamadi Codices.
prophets... itching ears,,, all that.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 20, 2017, 11:57:11 pm
A little more bibliography, please.

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html

Its from the Gospel of Thomas, fragments of which date as early as the 2nd century...roughly the same as that of the biblical gospels. Its authenticity holds up quite well academically relative to the other 4...and the Jesus Seminar included it in its literary analysis called The Five Gospels. Like the others, it is not itself a path to god or Jesus...it is a "sayings" Gospel rather than a story...but it does call one to seek.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2017, 11:57:49 pm
gnostic gospel... Nag Hamadi Codices.
prophets... itching ears,,, all that.
I was wondering about all that 'God is in you' part. Sure He is, I invited Him. But that doesn't mean I am Him.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 20, 2017, 11:58:40 pm
gnostic gospel... Nag Hamadi Codices.
prophets... itching ears,,, all that.

Nag Hamadi is where a very large stash of early Christian materials was found, much to the glee of archaeologists around the world. No idea what you mean by "itching ears".
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 21, 2017, 12:00:35 am
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html

Its from the Gospel of Thomas, fragments of which date as early as the 2nd century...roughly the same as that of the biblical gospels. Its authenticity holds up quite well academically relative to the other 4...and the Jesus Seminar included it in its literary analysis called The Five Gospels. Like the others, it is not itself a path to god or Jesus...it is a "sayings" Gospel rather than a story...but it does call one to seek.
Thank you for the reference. I have looked a lot of places, and it turns out He was there with me all the way. I do not see where your interpretation gives you the authority to call someone else a "Pharisee", though.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 21, 2017, 12:04:19 am
Our modern day Pharisee...knows what god thinks and wants based on his goofy interpretations of a book written and assembled by other Pharisee-like men. And, like the Pharisees, claims to speak for god. Those who disagree are of course ignorant, dangerous and doomed.

You are exactly what Jesus preached against...self righteous, arrogant, not seeking but certain, and full of condemnation. You think Jesus is contained within a book written by men....but YOU are wrong...that book is no more than a clarion call to seek out god, not a road map. God may have cornered the market on "Truth", but you as a man have no claim to it...so stop pretending that you do because you've read a book.

You should listen to Jesus own words before you condemn others...'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

You and your gnosticism I ignore.  You have no authority that you ascribe to yourself to declare His Word to be null and void as you do - and then go on to declare those who abide by it Pharisees because they are governed by it.

You do as your father the devil does, and you do it well - even when you have said there is no such thing as Satan.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 21, 2017, 12:05:07 am
Thank you for the reference. I have looked a lot of places, and it turns out He was there with me all the way. I do not see where your interpretation gives you the authority to call someone else a "Pharisee", though.

It's the seared conscience thing that they cannot stand.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 12:05:47 am
Thank you for the reference. I have looked a lot of places, and it turns out He was there with me all the way. I do not see where your interpretation gives you the authority to call someone else a "Pharisee", though.

Its not my interpretation, its his penchant for telling others they are ignorant if they disagree with HIS interpretation of the bible. His repeated assertions that there is one narrow path is akin to how the Pharisees made the kingdom of god difficult to access...putting obstacles in their road to god. It is an opinion, founded in having read many of Invar's expose's on how he knows what god wants. Who knew god was so involved in daily politics...as Invar asserts...I guess that render to Caesar what is Caesars actually meant "tell Caesar how to govern".
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 12:06:52 am
It's the seared conscience thing that they cannot stand.

You make my case again, assuming you know what is in another's conscience....you do not even know what is in your own, but you freely judge that of others. Who does that sound like to you?
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 21, 2017, 12:12:29 am
Its not my interpretation, its his penchant for telling others they are ignorant if they disagree with HIS interpretation of the bible. His repeated assertions that there is one narrow path is akin to how the Pharisees made the kingdom of god difficult to access...putting obstacles in their road to god. It is an opinion, founded in having read many of Invar's expose's on how he knows what god wants. Who knew god was so involved in daily politics...as Invar asserts...I guess that render to Caesar what is Caesars actually meant "tell Caesar how to govern".
How is he putting obstacles in your road to The Almighty? I see him pointing to a path he has found that works.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: roamer_1 on May 21, 2017, 12:14:38 am
Nag Hamadi is where a very large stash of early Christian materials was found, much to the glee of archaeologists around the world.

It isn't Christian material

Quote
No idea what you mean by "itching ears".

You would if you knew actual Christian material.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: roamer_1 on May 21, 2017, 12:16:18 am
I was wondering about all that 'God is in you' part. Sure He is, I invited Him. But that doesn't mean I am Him.

Yeah... Gnosticism is a crazy ride on a crazy train.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 21, 2017, 12:18:45 am
You make my case again, assuming you know what is in another's conscience....you do not even know what is in your own, but you freely judge that of others. Who does that sound like to you?

Your vitriolic reaction to the scriptures and statements made in conjunction with them speaks volumes.

I have experienced virtually the same kind of reaction from militant Atheists and Satan worshippers as you levy here - and in almost the same kinds of language.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 21, 2017, 12:19:25 am
Yeah... Gnosticism is a crazy ride on a crazy train.

Nothing new under the sun.  The First Century Church had to deal with it on a massive scale.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 12:19:35 am
How is he putting obstacles in your road to The Almighty? I see him pointing to a path he has found that works.

Telling others that their politics are out of line with what God wants...or that their politics and beliefs are wrong because they are depending on men rather than god...is twisting god into a tool for his own political argument. It is just wrong to make god your plaything in this way IMHO. My path is firm, but not everyone's is as clear to them and this kind of garbage can be hurtful to people as they seek to find god in their lives. Its not "pointing to a path...that works" that is the problem, its proclaiming that is the ONLY path that can make it hard for others to feel free to find god as they choose. Multiply that kind of arrogance and certainty by millions...and you have real road blocks for many who are "seeking".
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 12:25:07 am
Yeah... Gnosticism is a crazy ride on a crazy train.

Much like the bible. 800 year old men, guys staying alive inside of whales, entire planets flooded, snakes talking to women, people turning into salt pillars, 2 people populating a planet, people made out of ribs, god ordering the slaughter of children...it goes on and on. By comparison, many of the Gnostic gospels are islands of common sense and sanity...though a number of them are a bit "loopy" in biblical fashion. With gnostic gospels AND the bible, a wise man has to separate the chaff from the wheat.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 21, 2017, 12:27:28 am
Telling others that their politics are out of line with what God wants...or that their politics and beliefs are wrong because they are depending on men rather than god...is twisting god into a tool for his own political argument. It is just wrong to make god your plaything in this way IMHO. My path is firm, but not everyone's is as clear to them and this kind of garbage can be hurtful to people as they seek to find god in their lives. Its not "pointing to a path...that works" that is the problem, its proclaiming that is the ONLY path that can make it hard for others to feel free to find god as they choose. Multiply that kind of arrogance and certainty by millions...and you have real road blocks for many who are "seeking".

It's amazing that in the space of one paragraph you not only condemned me, you condemned Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and a score of the Founders who made if abundantly clear that the only path to maintaining liberty in this country was one founded in the morality as contained in the scriptures and in the Christian religion you so despise.

A people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.

And here you are declaring that those who urge a people to be reconciled to and be governed by God are the real tyrants.

Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 12:29:00 am
Nothing new under the sun.  The First Century Church had to deal with it on a massive scale.

To a large degree, it WAS the First Century Church. Later, Arianism became the prevalent doctrine of the church. Athanasius brand of belief won out eventually, and then he and the church literally killed off those who disagreed and destroyed what written works they could find. As late as the 380's, men like Augustine himself were avid followers of Mani and his version of Christianity (Manichaeism).

But early on, there were scriptures and letters and stories of Jesus spread across the Mediterranean...many of them tied to disciples themselves, such as Thomas. There is a Gospel of Peter as well, FYI. Eventually, books began being collected and grouped, but it took centuries for that process to get locked into the current set of books...and even those, like Mark's final verses, have bogus additions that did not exist in the earliest copies of the work.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 12:36:55 am
It's amazing that in the space of one paragraph you not only condemned me, you condemned Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and a score of the Founders who made if abundantly clear that the only path to maintaining liberty in this country was one founded in the morality as contained in the scriptures and in the Christian religion you so despise.

A people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.

And here you are declaring that those who urge a people to be reconciled to and be governed by God are the real tyrants.

Jefferson had his own bible in which he cut out the miracles AND the sayings of Jesus he thought bogus. He was a Christian theist, not a fundamentalist in any sense of teh word. So rather than condemn him, I would praise the man. As for Christianity, I condemn only its distortions...and am an avid believer in the words of Jesus (as a guide, check out the Jesus Seminar's analysis of the Five Gospels for what Jesus likely did and did not say).
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Sighlass on May 21, 2017, 12:39:18 am
gnostic gospel... Nag Hamadi Codices.
prophets... itching ears,,, all that.

Oh good grief... can some posters get any weirder?

Far as anyone knows they never were carbon dated.  Hint: Date just made out of thin air, no carbon dating verified.

http://peterkirby.com/nag-hammadi-carbon-dating-myth.html
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 12:39:47 am
It's amazing that in the space of one paragraph you not only condemned me, you condemned Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and a score of the Founders who made if abundantly clear that the only path to maintaining liberty in this country was one founded in the morality as contained in the scriptures and in the Christian religion you so despise.

A people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.

And here you are declaring that those who urge a people to be reconciled to and be governed by God are the real tyrants.

We all want a country ruled by morality and ethics, and yes...with a belief in a god who guides our choices for good.

The issue is that you presume to know how god wants us to behave in our governance of this country. You are wrong. Its really that simple.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 21, 2017, 12:43:55 am
Telling others that their politics are out of line with what God wants...or that their politics and beliefs are wrong because they are depending on men rather than god...is twisting god into a tool for his own political argument. It is just wrong to make god your plaything in this way IMHO. My path is firm, but not everyone's is as clear to them and this kind of garbage can be hurtful to people as they seek to find god in their lives. Its not "pointing to a path...that works" that is the problem, its proclaiming that is the ONLY path that can make it hard for others to feel free to find god as they choose. Multiply that kind of arrogance and certainty by millions...and you have real road blocks for many who are "seeking".
We're all adults here. People will look at what @INVAR says and decide for themselves. Where I see your conflict with that is that it conflicts with your philosophy and your little 'g' god. You seem to find that upsetting.

If we are not guided by some fundamental philosophy, in this case, the basic rules YHWH passed to Moses, there will be chaos. Without those ten simple rules, no political or other 'solution' will be just nor will it endure.
I fail to see where that detracts from the ability of people to choose their own course, should they decide. However, I must note that if those ten rules were followed by those in government, we would likely have far fewer problems, and far more Liberty than we do at present. Nor do I see basing the simplest laws in our culture on those rules as a deficit, certainly most of our laws are.
You call this "garbage" because you say your path is firm, but The Almighty calls us each to Him as He will. One man's trash is indeed another man's treasure.
It is no less arrogant to assert that only your path which is no path but the license to ramble about, exists to the exclusion of the straight path he advocates.
That makes as much sense as advising someone to go out and sin so they better understand God when they finally find Him, when all they had to do was read the directions and follow them.
If indeed he is to look in himself to find God, who are you to say he did not, and that this is the path he found?
I'm not calling names here, If your path works and you are sure of the God you found, I pray you have not been led elsewhere. That is between you and Him.
And everyone here is free to accept or reject as they choose.
I have not read the book to which you referred, only your quotes from it. That describes a path I tried as a younger man, one which led me away from YHWH. Be careful there, there are many pitfalls and precipices, if that is the path you choose. For me, all else failed. That's why I read the directions. Be blessed.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 21, 2017, 12:45:12 am
Should this be moved to the Religion Forum?

@mystery-ak
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: roamer_1 on May 21, 2017, 12:47:05 am
Nothing new under the sun.  The First Century Church had to deal with it on a massive scale.

That's right, and here it goes again.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: txradioguy on May 21, 2017, 12:49:01 am
Should this be moved to the Religion Forum?

@mystery-ak

Who died and appointed you as a Mod?
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 21, 2017, 12:59:45 am
We all want a country ruled by morality and ethics, and yes...with a belief in a god who guides our choices for good.

The issue is that you presume to know how god wants us to behave in our governance of this country. You are wrong. Its really that simple.

A greater statement of contradiction one may never find.

We are already doing what is right in our own eyes and via our own perceived ethics as a nation.

Enjoy the fruits - for they are exactly what you prescribe more of.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 01:00:09 am
We're all adults here. People will look at what @INVAR says and decide for themselves. Where I see your conflict with that is that it conflicts with your philosophy and your little 'g' god. You seem to find that upsetting. 

If we are not guided by some fundamental philosophy, in this case, the basic rules YHWH passed to Moses, there will be chaos. I am guided by a philosophy just as you are, and the ten rules you attribute to yahweh were well incorporated into western thought before the birth of Jesus...most cultures have similar moral codes in which murder, theft, envy, caring for fellow citizens, etcetera are held in high regard.Without those ten simple rules, no political or other 'solution' will be just nor will it endure. I agree, the basic moral code of the Ten commandments is a great basis for establishing societal norms
I fail to see where that detracts from the ability of people to choose their own course, should they decide. However, I must note that if those ten rules were followed by those in government, we would likely have far fewer problems, and far more Liberty than we do at present. Nor do I see basing the simplest laws in our culture on those rules as a deficit, certainly most of our laws are. I agree, our legislation is and should be founded in these principles...they are core "truths" that are found in many cultures and religions
You call this "garbage" because you say your path is firm, but The Almighty calls us each to Him as He will. One man's trash is indeed another man's treasure.No, what is garbage, is this declaration of having "the one" path.
It is no less arrogant to assert that only your path which is no path I don't assert mine to be the only path, as there are actually innumerable roads that lead to god, nor is my path "no path"...rather, it is a very clear road steeped in Platonic thought as well as in the words of men like Jesus and Buddha. It would only seem "rambling" to someone who felt their was only one narrow road to god. but the license to ramble about is any exists to the exclusion of the straight path he advocates. Keep to your own path, I'm happy for you on it, just quit proclaiming that every other path is wrong.  If you somehow want to argue that its your path to tell everyone they are wrong, than...well...that is what I'm criticizing in this thread
That makes as much sense as advising someone to go out and sin so they better understand God when they finally find Him, when all they had to do was read the directions and follow them.I've not called for anyone to sin, only to seek
If indeed he is to look in himself to find God, who are you to say he did not, and this is the path he found? You will know him by his acts and his words. If he had found god, he would no longer be claiming to have the only path to him.
I'm not calling names here, If your path works and you are sure of the God you found, I pray you have not been led elsewhere. That is between you and Him. Agreed, and I share the same wishes for you.
And everyone here is free to accept or reject as they choose. Agreed
I have not read the book to which you referred, only your quotes from it. That describes a path I tried as a younger man, one which led me away from YHWH. Be careful there, there are many pitfalls and precipices, if that is the path you choose. For me, all else failed. That's why I read the directions. There are many sets of directions, most of which are found not in a book but in our lives, and in the world around us. Be blessed.Again, I'm glad for you that you've found contentment. As have I. In that, we are both very fortunate men.

Lest it be lost in the conversation, this is about using god as a tool to declare your political view correct...or another's incorrect. That is using god, not following him and it is self serving in the extreme. Worse, as I see it, it is frequently used in lieu of reason and a coherent argument for one's positions.

Always remember, it was men who wrote the bible, not god himself. Men also copied and edited each of the books therein. Further, it was a group of men who selected...voted on...and decided what would and would not make it into the New Testament...and a similar process was undertaken in deciding how to interpret much of the doctrine laid forth in the NT. The early church was rife with diverse interpretation, not truly coalescing until well into the 4th century.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: txradioguy on May 21, 2017, 01:04:39 am
Lest it be lost in the conversation, this is about using god as a tool to declare your political view correct...or another's incorrect. That is using god, not following him and it is self serving in the extreme. Worse, as I see it, it is frequently used in lieu of reason and a coherent argument for one's positions.

And that's different from the Founding Fathers declaring rights given by the Creator? 
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: roamer_1 on May 21, 2017, 01:04:49 am
Lest it be lost in the conversation, this is about using god as a tool to declare your political view correct...or another's incorrect. That is using god, not following him and it is self serving in the extreme. Worse, as I see it, it is frequently used in lieu of reason and a coherent argument for one's positions.

You mean like when someone quotes pseudepigraphal work, claiming it as Scripture, nay, even the words of the Messiah?
You mean like when someone does that to prove a political point?
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 01:08:07 am
And that's different from the Founding Fathers declaring rights given by the Creator?

It is true that the FF's used the imprimatur of the Creator to add gravitas to their work. They did so consciously and with aforethought...and the specifically used the term creator with equal intention (choosing to avoid a more obvious Christian-centric terminology).
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 01:10:02 am
You mean like when someone quotes pseudepigraphal work, claiming it as Scripture, nay, even the words of the Messiah?
You mean like when someone does that to prove a political point?

Thomas claims to be the words of Jesus just as do all the other gospels. It is no more pseudepigraphical than the other 4 gospels. My citing of it was part of plea to NOT use these words in making our political arguments/points. This was an ethical argument, not a political one.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Sighlass on May 21, 2017, 01:10:42 am
You mean like when someone quotes pseudepigraphal work, claiming it as Scripture, nay, even the words of the Messiah?
You mean like when someone does that to prove a political point?

Thumbs-up emote goes here displaying a nice big picture showing my approval of this message.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: roamer_1 on May 21, 2017, 01:14:44 am
Much like the bible. 800 year old men, guys staying alive inside of whales, entire planets flooded, snakes talking to women, people turning into salt pillars, 2 people populating a planet, people made out of ribs, god ordering the slaughter of children...it goes on and on. By comparison, many of the Gnostic gospels are islands of common sense and sanity...though a number of them are a bit "loopy" in biblical fashion. With gnostic gospels AND the bible, a wise man has to separate the chaff from the wheat.

No... you are reading it wrong, as I have told you before.
and in your zeal to discount, what you are doing is separating the tare from the wheat, and keeping the tare.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 21, 2017, 01:20:29 am
Lest it be lost in the conversation, this is about using god as a tool to declare your political view correct...or another's incorrect. That is using god, not following him and it is self serving in the extreme. Worse, as I see it, it is frequently used in lieu of reason and a coherent argument for one's positions.
How will you resist Islam?
You do not see scripture as a coherent argument?

How about this: If a law allows one to steal from their neighbor, would you see that law as immoral? Would not most people use The Almighty, the God of Moses who carved the rules in stone as as good a reason as any to overturn such a law? (Of course those laws had been around for a long time before Jesus was born. They were given to Moses. Is not that Law the basis for our own? No that you can't eat oysters or bacon, but the big ten?)

Sure it is.
Quote
Always remember, it was men who wrote the bible, not god himself. Men also copied and edited each of the books therein. Further, it was a group of men who selected...voted on...and decided what would and would not make it into the New Testament...and a similar process was undertaken in deciding how to interpret much of the doctrine laid forth in the NT. The early church was rife with diverse interpretation, not truly coalescing until well into the 4th century.
Someone put it down. But what was kept has stood the test of time. What do you so disagree with?

BTW, it is a real pain to address comments mired within the quote of the previous poster's comments. Please make the effort to separate your own comments from the previous posts in a way that is easier to quote.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: roamer_1 on May 21, 2017, 01:23:17 am
Thomas claims to be the words of Jesus just as do all the other gospels. It is no more pseudepigraphical than the other 4 gospels. My citing of it was part of plea to NOT use these words in making our political arguments/points. This was an ethical argument, not a political one.

The claims of the Book of Thomas are easily refuted... that is why it is absolutely among the psuedepigrapha. But we have had this argument before. Press me on it, why don't you... Start a thread.

You are not dealing with ill informed people anymore, @Mesaclone . Some of the top Biblical scholars, the best to ever grace FR, are here now. @INVAR , who seems to be the focus of your ire, could tear down the Book of Thomas like the paper shell it is... with his eyes closed and his hands in mittens.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: roamer_1 on May 21, 2017, 01:26:58 am
[...] and the specifically used the term creator with equal intention (choosing to avoid a more obvious Christian-centric terminology).

You are patently ignorant of English Common Law. Read Blackstone and see if your theory holds up.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: roamer_1 on May 21, 2017, 01:29:43 am
Thumbs-up emote goes here displaying a nice big picture showing my approval of this message.

 :thumbsup:

 :beer:
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 01:34:17 am
How will you resist Islam? Easily, with common sense and Platonic reasoning. As well, my belief in Jesus desire for us to love our fellow man precludes accepting MANY of the tenets of Islam.
You do not see scripture as a coherent argument? Some of it, yes. Other parts, such as god directing the slaughter of children and women, not so much.

How about this: If a law allows one to steal from their neighbor, would you see that law as immoral? Yes, by any logic that would be damaging to any society.Would not most people use The Almighty, the God of Moses who carved the rules in stone as as good a reason as any to overturn such a law? (Of course those laws had been around for a long time before Jesus was born. They were given to Moses. Is not that Law the basis for our own? No that you can't eat oysters or bacon, but the big ten?) Even the Code of Hammurabi, much pre-dating Moses, commands citizens not to steal or lie.
 Morality did not arrive with Moses, nor was it circumscribed by Ten very true but far from all inclusive commandments


Sure it is. Someone put it down. But what was kept has stood the test of time. What do you so disagree with? As I said, I don't disagree with the Ten Commandments...though I view them more as gods ten guides to leading a good and happy life in a rational society.

BTW, it is a real pain to address comments mired within the quote of the previous poster's comments. Please make the effort to separate your own comments from the previous posts in a way that is easier to quote. Sorry, I answered all the above before reading this one. In future, I will do as you request.

To be clear, I see the bible as having great moral weight...much of it, anyway. Its metaphor, akin to much of greek mythology, conveys valuable lessens in wisdom and ethics.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 01:45:14 am
The claims of the Book of Thomas are easily refuted... that is why it is absolutely among the psuedepigrapha. But we have had this argument before. Press me on it, why don't you... Start a thread.

You are not dealing with ill informed people anymore, @Mesaclone . Some of the top Biblical scholars, the best to ever grace FR, are here now. @INVAR , who seems to be the focus of your ire, could tear down the Book of Thomas like the paper shell it is... with his eyes closed and his hands in mittens.

Self aggrandizement and hyperbole...humorous AND a bit of sin. You naughty boy. Let me sin as well, though I'm not a theologian, I do have an MA in Ancient History. As for closed eyes and mittens, that seems to be a good description of Invar's diatribes thus far.

As I'm not a theologian, however, I'll rely much on those who are...Dominic Crossan, Bruce Bawer, Shelby Spong, Elaine Pagels and a host of others...for studies in authenticity and meaning. Further, works such as the Five Gospels received input from...literally...thousands of theologians at universities across the nation, so most of what I'm giving out about Thomas comes well sourced by true experts in this field.

As for refuting Thomas, you apparently don't know that it is a saying gospel...not a story line one. As such, you may disagree with what it asserts are the words of Jesus, but you have no means of refuting it beyond a scientific analysis of the text in its original Coptic version. The earliest fragments of Thomas rival those of any other gospel, by some measures dating earlier than any of the extant 4 gospel fragments. ARE you an expert in this? If so, have at it....present your scientific work on these fragments and their archaeological authenticity. My guess, you're an expert in your own mind.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: mystery-ak on May 21, 2017, 01:53:48 am
Should this be moved to the Religion Forum?

@mystery-ak

I don't have a Religion section and this thread is the reason why
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: roamer_1 on May 21, 2017, 01:57:22 am
Self aggrandizement and hyperbole...humorous AND a bit of sin. You naughty boy. Let me sin as well, though I'm not a theologian, I do have an MA in Ancient History. As for closed eyes and mittens, that seems to be a good description of Invar's diatribes thus far.

As I'm not a theologian, however, I'll rely much on those who are...Dominic Crossan, Bruce Bawer, Shelby Spong, Elaine Pagels and a host of others...for studies in authenticity and meaning. Further, works such as the Five Gospels received input from...literally...thousands of theologians at universities across the nation, so most of what I'm giving out about Thomas comes well sourced by true experts in this field.

As for refuting Thomas, you apparently don't know that it is a saying gospel...not a story line one. As such, you may disagree with what it asserts are the words of Jesus, but you have no means of refuting it beyond a scientific analysis of the text in its original Coptic version. The earliest fragments of Thomas rival those of any other gospel, by some measures dating earlier than any of the extant 4 gospel fragments. ARE you an expert in this? If so, have at it....present your scientific work on these fragments and their archaeological authenticity. My guess, you're an expert in your own mind.

Like I said. Press me on it. Start a thread.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 21, 2017, 02:06:32 am
Easily, with common sense and Platonic reasoning. As well, my belief in Jesus desire for us to love our fellow man precludes accepting MANY of the tenets of Islam.
and they will laugh at you while sawing your head off with a dull kitchen knife.
Quote
Some of it, yes. Other parts, such as god directing the slaughter of children and women, not so much.
Yet in popular fiction there are no qualms about the slaughter of women and children in so many scenarios. Not to mention Dresden, Berlin, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, all not so very long ago and perfectly secularly and Platonically justified. It is the application of Christian (second book, New Testament) beliefs that do not call for such slaughter, and despite 1945 years of that (less time for the book to be compiled, of course) we did it in all our righteousness. You cannot tell me that even today those same secular, rational people wouldn't nuke Pyonyang or Teheran or other cities full of women and children as an expediency. Yet every one of them would have said 'god' is on our side, from those running death camps in Poland to those who raped Nanking, and our own government, too. Sorry, but slaughter is common practice in warfare, whether it is with bullets, the sword, or simply starvation. The Israelites were at war, they vanquished their enemies in such a way as to eliminate reprisal. For the last 60 years we have generally failed to have the resolve to do so, and as such the slaughter of South Vietnamese, Cambodians, Laotians, ongoing squabbles with the North Koreans, the Somalis (oh, we're importing them), and a host of others have led to a world full of people who want death for America, and who will not have your qualms.
Quote
Even the Code of Hammurabi, much pre-dating Moses, commands citizens not to steal or lie.
 Morality did not arrive with Moses, nor was it circumscribed by Ten very true but far from all inclusive commandments. As I said, I don't disagree with the Ten Commandments...though I view them more as gods ten guides to leading a good and happy life in a rational society.
Do you believe in Hell? Do you believe that God, so frustrated with the corruption of His creations would destroy all but a few? That He would punish noncorporeal beings with eternal damnation? If so, the slaughter by the Israelites was nothing. But the Ten Commandments take on more gravity if you believe there is a downside to breaking them, and if no downside, why "Commandments", why not "Suggestions"? Do you believe that two cities and their inhabitants were destroyed (a microcosm of the flood) for their wickedness? They have not been found, yet all other biblical cities have. 

Quote
To be clear, I see the bible as having great moral weight...much of it, anyway. Its metaphor, akin to much of greek mythology, conveys valuable lessens in wisdom and ethics.
Great moral weight? It remains the all time best seller. As I said, it is the directions. When all else fails (and it will), consult it.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 02:14:21 am
Like I said. Press me on it. Start a thread.

Lighten up, Francis. Go start a thread of your own if you're that wound up about it.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: endicom on May 21, 2017, 02:16:53 am
I don't have a Religion section and this thread is the reason why


I'm the OP and I wouldn't mind at all if you closed the thread.

@mystery-ak
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: roamer_1 on May 21, 2017, 02:24:16 am
Lighten up, Francis. Go start a thread of your own if you're that wound up about it.

LOL! Like I thought.

I'll just leave this here for Christians to mull over, as to the authenticity and continuity of the Book of Thomas with the synoptic Gospels:

Purportedly spoken by our Messiah:

(1) Simon Peter said to them: “Let Mary go away from us, for women are not worthy of life.”
(2) Jesus said: “Look, I will draw her in so as to make her male, so that she too may become a living male spirit, similar to you.”
(3) (But I say to you): “Every woman who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven.” - 114 "gospel" of "Thomas"

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/bible-versions-and-translations/the-gospel-of-thomas-114-sayings-of-jesus/

Nuff said. Have fun
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 21, 2017, 02:28:45 am
Jefferson had his own bible in which he cut out the miracles AND the sayings of Jesus he thought bogus. He was a Christian theist, not a fundamentalist in any sense of teh word. So rather than condemn him, I would praise the man. As for Christianity, I condemn only its distortions...and am an avid believer in the words of Jesus (as a guide, check out the Jesus Seminar's analysis of the Five Gospels for what Jesus likely did and did not say).

I have read the Jesus Seminar thing and it's interesting... not sure I put total faith in it but it's a good read.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 21, 2017, 02:30:36 am
Who died and appointed you as a Mod?

Who appointed you as arbiter of consulting Mod.  Good grief.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Emjay on May 21, 2017, 02:32:37 am
I don't have a Religion section and this thread is the reason why

Is it okay to give you a big Amen on that?  Or is that too religious?
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 02:32:41 am
and they will laugh at you while sawing your head off with a dull kitchen knife.Yet in popular fiction there are no qualms about the slaughter of women and children in so many scenarios. Not to mention Dresden, Berlin, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, all not so very long ago and perfectly secularly and Platonically justified. It is the application of Christian (second book, New Testament) beliefs that do not call for such slaughter, and despite 1945 years of that (less time for the book to be compiled, of course) we did it in all our righteousness. You cannot tell me that even today those same secular, rational people wouldn't nuke Pyonyang or Teheran or other cities full of women and children as an expediency. Yet every one of them would have said 'god' is on our side, from those running death camps in Poland to those who raped Nanking, and our own government, too. Sorry, but slaughter is common practice in warfare, whether it is with bullets, the sword, or simply starvation. The Israelites were at war, they vanquished their enemies in such a way as to eliminate reprisal. For the last 60 years we have generally failed to have the resolve to do so, and as such the slaughter of South Vietnamese, Cambodians, Laotians, ongoing squabbles with the North Koreans, the Somalis (oh, we're importing them), and a host of others have led to a world full of people who want death for America, and who will not have your qualms. Do you believe in Hell? Do you believe that God, so frustrated with the corruption of His creations would destroy all but a few? That He would punish noncorporeal beings with eternal damnation? If so, the slaughter by the Israelites was nothing. But the Ten Commandments take on more gravity if you believe there is a downside to breaking them, and if no downside, why "Commandments", why not "Suggestions"? Do you believe that two cities and their inhabitants were destroyed (a microcosm of the flood) for their wickedness? They have not been found, yet all other biblical cities have. 
Great moral weight? It remains the all time best seller. As I said, it is the directions. When all else fails (and it will), consult it.

and they will laugh at you while sawing your head off with a dull kitchen knife
Yes, as they would to any of us given the chance.

Not to mention Dresden, Berlin, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, all not so very long ago and perfectly secularly and Platonically justified.
Wait, these things happened and were carried out by "Christian" nations, not agnostic ones...so many have died in the name of religion, and so many others because religion was unable to curb the appetites of those who seek power. Not sure what your point is, but that is essentially the history of mankind.

The Israelites were at war, they vanquished their enemies in such a way as to eliminate reprisal.
I agree, this was very normal behavior for the era. However, in the bible god directly orders Israelites to kill women and children in places like Jericho. My point isn't that god actually ordered this, but that man justified their brutality by attributing it to god...an example of why we must understand that the bible is not literally true, but is a reflection of men's thoughts in many places, rather than gods.

Do you believe in Hell? Do you believe that God, so frustrated with the corruption of His creations would destroy all but a few? That He would punish non-corporeal beings with eternal damnation?
For there to be a hell, god would have to be a savage monster. Punishment to teach is moral. Punishment to set an example in a human lifespan...such as the death penalty...sets an example that may curb other violence. Punishment that is eternal, is cruel beyond comprehension and would be irrational...and god is the very epitome of rationality in my view. As such, a god that would do such a thing is a truly evil entity, not worthy of worship or respect. Fortunately, god is not such a monster, and things like hell are the creation of human minds seeking a way to "scare" followers into obedience.

But the Ten Commandments take on more gravity if you believe there is a downside to breaking them
They don't need more gravity, and they truly are meant to help us not to damn us. And yes, they are guidelines...not commands though certainly a culture like the early Israelites would see them as such. But god gives us free will, the greatest gift of all, and while he lets us face the consequences of our choices, he has no need to enforce his "helpful guides" with a "downside".

As for Sodom and Gomorrah, perhaps they were cities that were destroyed by tribal war or even natural disasters. Perhaps they are mostly myth. Archaeologists can make that determination. Its absurd however, to think god would directly kill babies and children...who most certainly lived there...to make some moral point about sin. That would fly in the face of free will and reason...not to mention morality. There is nothing wrong with taking good moral lessons from god....but as I said before..."the kingdom of god is in you, and all around you". You may find god in the bible, and that is good, but he can be found more clearly and more nearly in every atom of every moment in the universe.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 02:42:15 am
I have read the Jesus Seminar thing and it's interesting... not sure I put total faith in it but it's a good read.

I also don't take it as "Gospel"....pun intended!

I like that its based on cumulative views of a vast number of scholars, rather than being the work of just a few theologians. I greatly enjoyed the inclusion of the Gospel of Thomas and also the discussions about the Q Gospel (believed to be source material for the other Gospels AND Thomas).
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 02:46:49 am
LOL! Like I thought.

I'll just leave this here for Christians to mull over, as to the authenticity and continuity of the Book of Thomas with the synoptic Gospels:

Purportedly spoken by our Messiah:

(1) Simon Peter said to them: “Let Mary go away from us, for women are not worthy of life.”
(2) Jesus said: “Look, I will draw her in so as to make her male, so that she too may become a living male spirit, similar to you.”
(3) (But I say to you): “Every woman who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven.” - 114 "gospel" of "Thomas"

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/bible-versions-and-translations/the-gospel-of-thomas-114-sayings-of-jesus/

Nuff said. Have fun

Jesus saying he'd make Mary the equal of his male disciples....is somehow bad in your view?
Or are you just not understanding what he was saying in the lexicon of his times?
What he says there, is paradigm shifting...he's elevating Mary Magdelene to disciple status...a truly profound act in a time of deep chauvinism. Further, he's saying women are the equal of men in attaining the kingdom of god and participating in religious life. In contrast, Paul repeatedly said women should literally shut up in church and just obey their husbands.

Nuff said. And having fun!
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 21, 2017, 02:55:24 am
and they will laugh at you while sawing your head off with a dull kitchen knife
Yes, as they would to any of us given the chance.

Not to mention Dresden, Berlin, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, all not so very long ago and perfectly secularly and Platonically justified.
Wait, these things happened and were carried out by "Christian" nations, not agnostic ones...so many have died in the name of religion, and so many others because religion was unable to curb the appetites of those who seek power. Not sure what your point is, but that is essentially the history of mankind.

The Israelites were at war, they vanquished their enemies in such a way as to eliminate reprisal.
I agree, this was very normal behavior for the era. However, in the bible god directly orders Israelites to kill women and children in places like Jericho. My point isn't that god actually ordered this, but that man justified their brutality by attributing it to god...an example of why must understand that the bible is not literally true, but is a reflection of men's thoughts in many places, rather than gods.

Do you believe in Hell? Do you believe that God, so frustrated with the corruption of His creations would destroy all but a few? That He would punish noncorporeal beings with eternal damnation?
If there is a hell, than god would have be a savage monster. Punishment to teach is moral. Punishment to set an example in a human lifespan...such as the death penalty...sets an example that may curb other violence. Punishment that is eternal, is cruel beyond comprehension. As such, a god that would do such a thing is a truly evil entity, not worthy of worship or respect. Fortunately, god is not such a monster, and things like hell are the creation of human minds seeking a way to "scare" followers into obedience.

But the Ten Commandments take on more gravity if you believe there is a downside to breaking them
They don't need more gravity, and they truly are meant to help us not to damn us. And yes, they are guidelines...not commands though certainly a culture like the early Israelites would see them as such. But god gives us free will, the greatest gift of all, and while he lets us face the consequences of our choices, he has no need to enforce his "helpful guides" with a "downside".

As for Sodom and Gomorrah, perhaps they were cities that were destroyed by tribal war or even natural disasters. Perhaps they are mostly myth. Archaeologists can make that determination. Its absurd however, to think god would directly kill babies and children...who most certainly lived there...to make some moral point about sin. That would fly in the face of free will and reason...not to mention morality. There is nothing wrong with taking good moral lessons from god....but as I said before..."the kingdom of god is in you, and all around you". You may find god in the bible, and that is good, but he can be found more clearly and more nearly in every atom of every moment in the universe.
Clearly we disagree. Where there is light, there is also darkness, the other side of reward is....?
Certainly there were women and children in the antediluvian world. Were those not eliminated, too? After all, Noah brought his with him.
You do not believe the Bible, by your statements. You consider a God who would destroy two cities for abomination a "monster", what do you think of Harry Truman? (Actually, more women and children were killed in the Tokyo firestorm). Not to mention the justices who ruled on Roe, facilitating the slaughter of 50,000,000 innocents (and counting).
What suffering hasn't man wrought, that you would malign God?
As for the idea of eternity as punishment, as opposed to reward, might not the absence of reward be a punishment? But that isn't what is written, and that is not an idea confined to the Judeo-Christian writings, either, the concept of eternal punishment (Look at Prometheus) so you would deem all ever considered a deity monsters?
Kinda sketchy way to treat The Creator, dontcha think?
I don't pretend to KNOW His mind, but the first one, right out of the gate pretty much warns us all:
Quote
Exodus 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,

2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Emphasis mine.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 03:10:08 am
Clearly we disagree. Where there is light, there is also darkness, the other side of reward is....?
Certainly there were women and children in the antediluvian world. Were those not eliminated, too? After all, Noah brought his with him.
You do not believe the Bible, by your statements. You consider a God who would destroy two cities for abomination a "monster", what do you think of Harry Truman? (Actually, more women and children were killed in the Tokyo firestorm). Not to mention the justices who ruled on Roe, facilitating the slaughter of 50,000,000 innocents (and counting).
What suffering hasn't man wrought, that you would malign God?
As for the idea of eternity as punishment, as opposed to reward, might not the absence of reward be a punishment? But that isn't what is written, and that is not an idea confined to the Judeo-Christian writings, either, the concept of eternal punishment (Look at Prometheus) so you would deem all ever considered a deity monsters?
Kinda sketchy way to treat The Creator, dontcha think?
I don't pretend to KNOW His mind, but the first one, right out of the gate pretty much warns us all: Emphasis mine.

There's clearly no such thing as an anti-diluvian world. The flood story is an almost carbon copy of early Sumerian and other Middle Eastern flood myths. Almost certainly, there were great floods and destruction, events from which these stories arose. But scientifically, such a supposition is beyond laughable. The world is billions of years old, the universe around 13-15 billion, and human life has existed in its modern form for at least 80000 years.  I believe the bible AS A METAPHOR when it comes to such stories, it cannot be believed literally without utterly setting aside rationality in favor of "just because I want to believe it".

As for Harry Truman, he isn't an omnipotent creator...if he were, he'd defeat Japan with a blink of his eyes and nobody would have to die as a consequence. But that's the point, its man that kills and brings slaughter...god is a being of love and reason and infinite power...and men who attribute this to god. God brings us only love, it is we who bring ourselves pain and suffering by inflicting it on one another.

Perhaps if we quit writing books (bible) where we blame god...as a way of exculpating our own evil choices...we would already be living in a godly world.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Hoodat on May 21, 2017, 03:12:34 am

Quote
(3) (But I say to you): “Every woman who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven.” - 114 "gospel" of "Thomas"

Jesus saying he'd make Mary the equal of his male disciples....is somehow bad in your view?

Whoa there, Hoss.  How did you make the jump from "every woman who makes herself male" to Jesus making a woman 'male'?  Embellish a lot?
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Mesaclone on May 21, 2017, 03:49:11 am
Jesus saying he'd make Mary the equal of his male disciples....is somehow bad in your view?


Whoa there, Hoss.  How did you make the jump from "every woman who makes herself male" to Jesus making a woman 'male'?  Embellish a lot?

In ancient Israeli society, women were an underclass. Making herself male meant, to become the equal of the men around a woman...that is, to see herself as their spiritual equal. He goes on to make a very clear point, that women are the spiritual equals of men in Jesus and god's view, and that part of his teaching was to raise women to equality in god. That is a huge break from the standing view of society at the time, and shows just how revolutionary Jesus was in his thought and philosophy.

An interesting side note, in some early writings Jesus is portrayed as the husband of Mary Magdelene and she is his leading disciple. A stunning concept in 1st century Israel.

Not sure where you're getting an embellishment in there. I simply expressed in plain language what Jesus is saying in that verse. Any other secular scholar reading those phrases would understand it no differently.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: Hoodat on May 21, 2017, 04:12:32 am
Not sure where you're getting an embellishment in there. I simply expressed in plain language what Jesus is saying in that verse. Any other secular scholar reading those phrases would understand it no differently.

You went from a woman doing it (i.e. making herself male) to Jesus doing it.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: INVAR on May 21, 2017, 05:46:21 am
You went from a woman doing it (i.e. making herself male) to Jesus doing it.

Which is why those gnostic "gospels" have nothing to do with Jesus or God.  They do not comport with any part of the rest of canonical scripture.

Jesus answered, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?[/color] - Matthew 19:4-5

That those 'scriptures' would purport Jesus to say he would make a woman into a man and that every woman who makes herself into a man will enter the Kingdom is abject crap.

You are dealing with a person who says the bible is bogus, denies the divinity of Jesus, does not believe in the Resurrection, says Satan does not exist and God is found wherever you find him/her under rocks and such, and yet has ascribed authority to themselves to denounce scripture as evil and declare anyone governed by scripture or advocating adherence to it's principles to be evil.
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: geronl on May 21, 2017, 06:37:56 am
I have read the Jesus Seminar thing and it's interesting... not sure I put total faith in it but it's a good read.

Jesus Seminar is anti-Christian heresy
Title: Re: This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves
Post by: MOD3 on May 21, 2017, 09:05:53 am

I'm the OP and I wouldn't mind at all if you closed the thread.

@mystery-ak

This thread is so far off the rails it may as well be on a dirt road.  We don't do religion, and this thread is a great example of what happens when we try.  Locked.