Author Topic: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him  (Read 4705 times)

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #75 on: December 16, 2023, 10:31:24 pm »
And btw, @DCPatriot , The press has ALWAYS censored, swayed public opinion, and covered up sensitive material.

ALWAYS.

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #76 on: December 16, 2023, 10:32:15 pm »
Absolutely right, @roamer_1

Swear that Morning Joe is a compensated speaker/actor for the CIA. 

But using the public airways to sway public opinion...even CENSORING opinions...DOJ covering up obvious criminal activity?
IMHO, that's more a "HIGH CRIME" than a "misdemeanor".

That's a crime that needs R E T R I B U T I O N.

Once again....

Prosecution of government actors who may coordinate with the press to sway public opinion may be a violation of the First Amendment.  And maybe in some circumstances, could lead to the criminal prosecution of those government employees.

But that's NOT what Trump said.  He advocated prosecuting for treason privately-owned news organizations simply because they choose to parrot the line of the current Administration in a biased, non-objective manner.  Do you support that kind of criminal prosecution, or not?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2023, 11:11:18 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #77 on: December 16, 2023, 10:40:11 pm »
And btw, @DCPatriot , The press has ALWAYS censored, swayed public opinion, and covered up sensitive material.

ALWAYS.

Exactly.  And the Democrats could make the exact same argument against pro-Trump media organizations that pushed the messaging and agenda of his Administration. Literally the only differences is whether or not you agree that the particular messages constitute "treason". 

Trump is saying the press organizations that pushed a "one-sided and vicious coverage" should be investigated for "country-threatening treason."  And in case anyone needs a reminder, treason is the only crime expressly listed in the Constitution, and the death penalty remains authorized under federal law.

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #78 on: December 16, 2023, 10:41:34 pm »
Why is this so difficult for Trumpers?

Why not simply say, “I would oppose him using the government to after a hostile to him press”

                  Or
“I oppose the idea of government seizing private funds from private endowments to fund a government run American University”

Doesn’t mean you can’t still vote for the guy. But there’s a barrier there from having any disagreement with Trump on anything even if instinctively they know these things are wrong
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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #79 on: December 16, 2023, 10:57:19 pm »
Why is this so difficult for Trumpers?

Why not simply say, “I would oppose him using the government to after a hostile to him press”

                  Or
“I oppose the idea of government seizing private funds from private endowments to fund a government run American University”

Doesn’t mean you can’t still vote for the guy. But there’s a barrier there from having any disagreement with Trump on anything even if instinctively they know these things are wrong

 :amen:

And that's the precise thing that is so concerning -- the willingness of so many of his supporters to go along and not contradict or oppose him on any issue.  The more hemming and hawwing, the more avoidance and sophistry to avoid addressing the statement directly, the greater the danger posed by Trump himself.

Although in this case, it seems like the Trump supporters participating in this thread really do agree with him.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2023, 11:10:31 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #80 on: December 16, 2023, 11:11:11 pm »
:amen:

And that's the precise thing that is so concerning -- the willingness of so many of his supporters to go along and not contradict or oppose him on any issue.  The more hemming and hawwing, the more avoidance and sophistry to avoid addressing the statement directly, the greater the danger posed by Trump himself.

Although in this case, it seems like the Trump supporters participating in this thread really do agree with him on this.

That's right!  Trump open admits wanting to be a dictator, supposedly only for a day, and they are A-OK with that.  How'd that work out for Rome, back in the day?
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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #81 on: December 16, 2023, 11:30:36 pm »
That's right!  Trump open admits wanting to be a dictator, supposedly only for a day, and they are A-OK with that.  How'd that work out for Rome, back in the day?

Don't be the thread-clown @Timber Rattler

Two EO's open the spigots to reverse this treasonous Democrat positions. One on restoring fossil fuels, the other for flooding the country with uneducated people of color, while a corrupt AG and DHS chief look the other way.

You're damned right I'm okay with that.  How the hell did we get to this point??  Executive Orders, because it sure wasn't voted upon.
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Online LMAO

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #82 on: December 16, 2023, 11:51:30 pm »
That's right!  Trump open admits wanting to be a dictator, supposedly only for a day, and they are A-OK with that.  How'd that work out for Rome, back in the day?

Unfortunately, that’s been established here that his supporters would have no problem with Trump centralizing power

The GOP went from my Goldwater tagline to a candidate whose stated he’s willing to use state power against any press that’s mean to him with the full support of his base

“So this is how liberty dies...with thunderous applause”…Star Wars. Revenge of the Sith
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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #83 on: December 16, 2023, 11:55:25 pm »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #84 on: December 16, 2023, 11:58:05 pm »
Exactly.  And the Democrats could make the exact same argument against pro-Trump media organizations that pushed the messaging and agenda of his Administration. Literally the only differences is whether or not you agree that the particular messages constitute "treason". 

Trump is saying the press organizations that pushed a "one-sided and vicious coverage" should be investigated for "country-threatening treason."  And in case anyone needs a reminder, treason is the only crime expressly listed in the Constitution, and the death penalty remains authorized under federal law.

In the end it's about raising up another bureaucratic, unelected DECIDER. And that's alright if he's OUR decider...

ANYTIME anyone is arguing for another 'decider' I go tone-deaf.

This again is the 'we can run BIG.gov better than the Democrats'.

No, you cannot.

Online LMAO

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #85 on: December 17, 2023, 12:00:45 am »
Don't be the thread-clown @Timber Rattler

Two EO's open the spigots to reverse this treasonous Democrat positions. One on restoring fossil fuels, the other for flooding the country with uneducated people of color, while a corrupt AG and DHS chief look the other way.

You're damned right I'm okay with that.  How the hell did we get to this point??  Executive Orders, because it sure wasn't voted upon.

Executive Orders doesn’t necessarily make a President a dictator. There are rights and powers the Executive Branch is allowed under the Constitution

The issue here is Trumps stated willingness to use the power of the federal government against opposition. An issue you and a couple others steadfastly refuse to address and/or acknowledge as a serious issue for someone seeking to be the President. This isn’t a figment of our imaginations. These are threats he’s made

What happens if he decides folks like you aren’t loyal enough? There’s examples in history of people in power punishing those they deem insufficiently loyal
« Last Edit: December 17, 2023, 12:10:23 am by LMAO »
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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #86 on: December 17, 2023, 12:05:53 am »
Don't be the thread-clown @Timber Rattler

Two EO's open the spigots to reverse this treasonous Democrat positions. One on restoring fossil fuels, the other for flooding the country with uneducated people of color, while a corrupt AG and DHS chief look the other way.

Okay, I wish the phrase "Executive Order" had never entered the lexicon because people think a President can do anything via them.  He can't, and many of those who have tried have seen them overturned, many times by an unfriendly judge entering an injunction.  That happened to Obama, it happened to Trump, and it has happened to Biden.

A ton of the power in the Executive Branch resides in Administrative agencies going through various forms of rulemaking to make binding regulations.  That is NOT the same thing as an Executive Order.    There is a process of rulemaking that requires the government to give notice, give the public a specified time period on which to comment (the "notice and comment" period) and then you have to have agency action to back up the decision and implement it.  The statutory Notice and Comment period is at least 30 days, and many statutes actually specify a longer minimum time period.  Then you have to have additional agency actions and determinations based on the Notice and Comment period before a regulation can be finalized.  On bigger issues, that often lasts 6 months or more.  And if you try to shortcut that process, you leave the rule much more vulnerable to being overturned by the courts.

You may remember the Obama Administration "Clean Power Plan", which was something he tried to push through via regulation rather than legislation because the GOP wouldn't support it.  It was challenged by Republicans through various court actions, and after a seven year battle, eventually tossed by the Supreme Court.  Here's a blurb on it:

Quote
What the Supreme Court's Ruling on the 'Clean Air Act' Means for Carbon Emissions

On Thursday, the Supreme Court issued a ruling that will hamstring the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) authority to regulate carbon emissions from power plants. The outcome of the case is a big deal for tackling climate change going forward, particularly because the Biden Administration had set ambitious goals for reducing emissions, including reaching 100% carbon pollution-free electricity by 2035.

In a 6-3 vote, the conservative-majority court sided in favor of the plaintiffs who brought the West Virginia v. EPA case some seven years ago—primarily a group of Republican state attorneys general who believed that the federal agency was overstepping its authority after it issued a plan to curb power plant emissions. During those years, however, as case was moved through the justice system—rendering the EPA’s plan unenforceable—the power sector’s emissions declined anyway. The question now is whether emissions will continue to fall given that the energy industry has certainty that the federal government can’t impose future regulations.

The case has a convoluted history, but stems from a policy that former President Barack Obama unveiled back in 2015. Known as the Clean Power Plan, its goal was to reduce power sector emissions from 2005 levels by about a third by 2030. Before the policy could have its day in court, however, a new administration moved in, and, in 2019, then-President Donald Trump repealed the Clean Power Plan entirely. (Even though the policy never went into effect, the case against it continued; the Supreme Court was tasked to determine whether the EPA had broad powers to regulate emissions under the decades-old Clean Air Act.)

Two years later, Trump issued his own EPA policy directed only at coal-fired plants. More lawsuits were brought against that policy, this time from a coalition of predominantly Democratic states. A federal court struck it down, clearing the way for incoming President Joe Biden, who made clear that he would not revive the Clean Power Plan, and would instead craft a fresh plan of his own....

https://time.com/6192800/supreme-court-epa-emissions-ruling/

Point is, the idea that Trump can just issue a bunch of Executive Orders on day one to fix everything is simply laughable to anyone who understands how the legislative and rulemaking process actually works.  But things like "Executive Orders" become a buzzword, and people who have no idea what the f*** they are talking about wave it around like some talisman as if they actually have a clue.

That's one of my big issues with Trump.  His complete, almost deliberate indifference and ignorance to learning how the damn government actually works.  He's like a two year old screaming for his popsicles when mom just put them in the freezer 10 seconds ago.  If you want to run the country, you have to take the time to learn and understand this crap so you can actually get crap done instead of just being a loudmouth ranting about it.  But Trump didn't, and still hasn't, put in the work necessary to learn about that, so he remains a buffoon unlikely to accomplish anything that lasts longer than a fart in a high wind.

/rant.



Quote
You're damned right I'm okay with that.  How the hell did we get to this point??  Executive Orders, because it sure wasn't voted upon.

Yeah, and saying "Executive Order" three times in a row while looking at a mirror summons Barack Obama....Here's a hint -- just because something wasn't voted upon doesn't mean it came about due to an Executive Order.  That's American Government 101 if you paid attention in class.

And yes, I know this post makes me sound like a condescending douchenozzle, but sometimes, that's appropriate.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2023, 12:12:29 am by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #87 on: December 17, 2023, 12:20:15 am »
You're damned right I'm okay with that.  How the hell did we get to this point??  Executive Orders, because it sure wasn't voted upon.

You're spinning.  That's not what Trump said.

Receipt:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvaybvLMlgk
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #88 on: December 17, 2023, 12:25:13 am »
REMEMBER: What y'all are putting together in this presidency will be available for the next one.

Understand that... And be careful what you wish for.

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #89 on: December 17, 2023, 01:06:21 am »
REMEMBER: What y'all are putting together in this presidency will be available for the next one.

Understand that... And be careful what you wish for.

 :amen:

And for those who say "but the Democrats are already doing that so it doesn't matter", yes it does.  Part of the reason the Democrats are able to do this is because Trump was dumb enough, and undisciplined enough, to give them cover for doing it.  If you don't make it easy on them, it becomes much harder to do.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2023, 01:08:20 am by Maj. Bill Martin »

Online LMAO

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #90 on: December 17, 2023, 02:57:55 am »
Okay, I wish the phrase "Executive Order" had never entered the lexicon because people think a President can do anything via them.  He can't, and many of those who have tried have seen them overturned, many times by an unfriendly judge entering an injunction.  That happened to Obama, it happened to Trump, and it has happened to Biden.

A ton of the power in the Executive Branch resides in Administrative agencies going through various forms of rulemaking to make binding regulations.  That is NOT the same thing as an Executive Order.    There is a process of rulemaking that requires the government to give notice, give the public a specified time period on which to comment (the "notice and comment" period) and then you have to have agency action to back up the decision and implement it.  The statutory Notice and Comment period is at least 30 days, and many statutes actually specify a longer minimum time period.  Then you have to have additional agency actions and determinations based on the Notice and Comment period before a regulation can be finalized.  On bigger issues, that often lasts 6 months or more.  And if you try to shortcut that process, you leave the rule much more vulnerable to being overturned by the courts.

You may remember the Obama Administration "Clean Power Plan", which was something he tried to push through via regulation rather than legislation because the GOP wouldn't support it.  It was challenged by Republicans through various court actions, and after a seven year battle, eventually tossed by the Supreme Court.  Here's a blurb on it:

Point is, the idea that Trump can just issue a bunch of Executive Orders on day one to fix everything is simply laughable to anyone who understands how the legislative and rulemaking process actually works.  But things like "Executive Orders" become a buzzword, and people who have no idea what the f*** they are talking about wave it around like some talisman as if they actually have a clue.

That's one of my big issues with Trump.  His complete, almost deliberate indifference and ignorance to learning how the damn government actually works.  He's like a two year old screaming for his popsicles when mom just put them in the freezer 10 seconds ago.  If you want to run the country, you have to take the time to learn and understand this crap so you can actually get crap done instead of just being a loudmouth ranting about it.  But Trump didn't, and still hasn't, put in the work necessary to learn about that, so he remains a buffoon unlikely to accomplish anything that lasts longer than a fart in a high wind.

/rant.



Yeah, and saying "Executive Order" three times in a row while looking at a mirror summons Barack Obama....Here's a hint -- just because something wasn't voted upon doesn't mean it came about due to an Executive Order.  That's American Government 101 if you paid attention in class.

And yes, I know this post makes me sound like a condescending douchenozzle, but sometimes, that's appropriate.

The ignorance of Trump’s most devoted supporters is his greatest asset
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Online corbe

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #91 on: December 17, 2023, 03:03:50 am »
   Did Donald Drumpf just paraphrase Adolf Hitler at his rally tonight that migrants are 'poisoning the blood of our country'?

   That phrase first appeared in the führer's book Mein Kampf.
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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #92 on: December 17, 2023, 03:13:26 am »
   Did Donald Drumpf just paraphrase Adolf Hitler at his rally tonight that migrants are 'poisoning the blood of our country'?

   That phrase first appeared in the führer's book Mein Kampf.

@corbe

Just watched the clip.  And yes, yes he did just say exactly that.  Might be worth its own thread or many won't see it, but I'll just post it here for now.

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/theyre-poisoning-the-blood-of-our-country-trump-rails-against-immigration-from-africa-asia-at-nh-rally/

The video is in the link.  Only a minute or so long but it's enough to see that his words weren't cut, chopped, or being misrepresented.  That's exactly what he said. Almost like he's deliberately trying to torpedo GOP efforts to cut a deal that includes border security.

But I'm sure this is just another aspect of his 4th dimensional chess.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2023, 03:17:31 am by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #93 on: December 17, 2023, 03:20:44 am »
   Did Donald Drumpf just paraphrase Adolf Hitler at his rally tonight that migrants are 'poisoning the blood of our country'?

   That phrase first appeared in the führer's book Mein Kampf.
It's not the first time he's used that turn of phrase, IIRC, either.
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Online corbe

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #94 on: December 17, 2023, 03:29:53 am »
   Until that infamous escalator ride in 2015 I only had to worry about them raping and killing me; now they are poisoning my blood  ***hair on fire
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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #95 on: December 17, 2023, 04:54:20 am »
   Did Donald Drumpf just paraphrase Adolf Hitler at his rally tonight that migrants are 'poisoning the blood of our country'?

   That phrase first appeared in the führer's book Mein Kampf.

Oh come on now, let’s not see every thing we don’t like as being Hitler or NAZI.  it’s possible a) to turn a similar phrase of so few words and b) that it’s basically true.

That said, I’m never a fan of Trump and his likely Foot-in-Mouth disease.  My biggest concern is that he is more a tyrant in waiting than it may seem.  He certainly has the Mussolini Mouth frown and arrogance to match.
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #96 on: December 17, 2023, 12:21:33 pm »
Trump has a history of being overly interested in Hitler.  Makes sense that he can quote der Fuhrer on queue.

Donald Trump's ex-wife once said Trump kept a book of Hitler's speeches by his bed

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-ex-wife-once-said-he-kept-a-book-of-hitlers-speeches-by-his-bed-2015-8


Trump praised Hitler to chief of staff John Kelly during Europe trip, new book claims

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/07/trump-praised-hitler-to-john-kelly-new-book-claims.html


Trump campaign defends "vermin" speech amid fascist comparisons

https://www.axios.com/2023/11/13/trump-vermin-fascist-language-speech
« Last Edit: December 17, 2023, 12:22:30 pm by Timber Rattler »
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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #97 on: December 17, 2023, 04:20:06 pm »
Trump has a history of being overly interested in Hitler.  Makes sense that he can quote der Fuhrer on queue.

Donald Trump's ex-wife once said Trump kept a book of Hitler's speeches by his bed

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-ex-wife-once-said-he-kept-a-book-of-hitlers-speeches-by-his-bed-2015-8


Trump praised Hitler to chief of staff John Kelly during Europe trip, new book claims

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/07/trump-praised-hitler-to-john-kelly-new-book-claims.html


Trump campaign defends "vermin" speech amid fascist comparisons

https://www.axios.com/2023/11/13/trump-vermin-fascist-language-speech

Trump has expressed admiration for strongman dictators and he uses Hitler quotes and we have tangible examples of this but I hate the “ex wife sez” and “former staffer claims” stories

Anybody can claim they heard something but without a transcript or video, it’s rumor
« Last Edit: December 17, 2023, 04:24:13 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #98 on: December 17, 2023, 04:25:46 pm »
It is hard to fathom Trump acting as a dictator when he wasn't even willing to use the veto power he did have to block Democrat spending bills.
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Re: Why Trump’s dictator remarks are working for him
« Reply #99 on: December 17, 2023, 04:36:56 pm »
The biggest reason I don't believe Trump was trying to quote Hitler is because he's ignorant.  I don't believe he reads enough to know that Hitler ever said that.

And no, I don't think Trump is a Hitler, or a wannabe Hitler.  But I do think his colossal ignorance and lack of discipline makes him a ridiculously easy target, and it's that colossal ignorance and lack of discipline itself that is the real problem I have with the guy.  So the verbal mistakes are more of a symptom than the real problem themselves, although they obviously are a political problem for him too.